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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:06:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Ghost page.
4003 ownage |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:09:04 AM EDT
[#2]
I saw posts from units last night in the Bakhmut area to expect good news today or tomorrow. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:11:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
I saw posts from units last night in the Bakhmut area to expect good news today or tomorrow. Would make sense. A few soft pokes found the flanks to be ripe and squishy. Time to punch instead of poke. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:12:46 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:15:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: The whole ‘western jets” thing may just be a canard. I’ve watched a few of the more professionally oriented commentaries on the issue, and there’s agreement that Gripen was the only possible short-term answer. With Sweden being kept out of NATO for now, they aren’t keen on handing over a lot of their own AC. F16 may well be the long-term answer, but it would need a major, major capitol improvement project in Ukraine. New runways which are well-maintained, and a large number of them to serve as alternates. That’s the biggest obstacle along with shelters and the infrastructure to support a dispersed air force in the field. These are all huge problems which are totally glossed over most of the time. One commentator made the point that the best case would be a squadron of Gripens with Meteor, with the goal mainly to push Russian planes back from the line, keep them at risk, and cause attrition. IMO the west is just milking the issue as a means of “escalation management” - that is, they threaten to send jets so that Russia can be pleased that we only sent GMLRS/GLSDB. In reality, GMLRS/GLSDB (and yes, ATACMS should be there too) is providing Ukraine FAR more practical utility than jets. All excellent points and you know much more about it than me. But many experts miss the urgency of the situation for Ukraine OR seem desperate to keep them fighting of the defense without too much progress. I look at Ukraine like a person drowning. The need a life preserver right fucking now. They are begging for help and all the Western experts are talking about long term training programs to teach them the backstroke and the butterfly before throwing the damned life preserver. Give them a dozen fucking planes and let them figure something out. Ukraine is not Afghanistan where you first have to teach them to read before they could read a manual. They have experience pilots apparently training now. If they all get shot down or fall apart on the shitty UA runways, then start talking about giving them Gripens in 2087 after they have built 87 improved runways etc. But I bet that as soon as the first F16 arrives in UA hands, the effect on the Russians will be felt immediately. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:15:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Iron Dome going after a Badr-3 rocket over Israel.
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:16:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: WSJ Article About Daniel Swift. Navy SEAL KIA in Bakmuht. Article reads like he just couldn’t find his place in the world outside of action. Even with a wife and kids. Interesting that he was still active duty and considered AWOL. FUCK.... |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:16:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#8]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:17:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Was that the newest one I posted or was it mislabeled? I lost track of this assault saga.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: https://twitter.com/INTobservers/status/1656936880003317760 "The assault group of the K-2 battalion attacked the Cyclops position, which was occupied by the enemy. When their grenades ran out, the group had to withdraw to replenish their ammo (in part 3) In less than an hour, the assault on the position continued. But the Russian occupiers are sitting in a deep bunker, from where they are conducting heavy fire. Ukrainian soldiers must knock the enemy out of this shelter to take the position under their control." 13 min video. New footage starts around the 3 min mark. @ 6:55 a UA troop bounces a LAW/RPG off the top of the berm trying to get the bunker.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R-_Ifk09cWas that the newest one I posted or was it mislabeled? I lost track of this assault saga. Dunno. I can't see the Twitter one. This one is labeled as Pt. 4 |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:18:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile:
Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:18:20 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:18:57 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Dunno. I can't see the Twitter one. This one is labeled as Pt. 4 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: https://twitter.com/INTobservers/status/1656936880003317760 "The assault group of the K-2 battalion attacked the Cyclops position, which was occupied by the enemy. When their grenades ran out, the group had to withdraw to replenish their ammo (in part 3) In less than an hour, the assault on the position continued. But the Russian occupiers are sitting in a deep bunker, from where they are conducting heavy fire. Ukrainian soldiers must knock the enemy out of this shelter to take the position under their control." 13 min video. New footage starts around the 3 min mark. @ 6:55 a UA troop bounces a LAW/RPG off the top of the berm trying to get the bunker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R-_Ifk09cWas that the newest one I posted or was it mislabeled? I lost track of this assault saga. Dunno. I can't see the Twitter one. This one is labeled as Pt. 4 lol, we are on the same page then, it is part 4 as well for those that can't view it in other formats. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:19:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? I think they're just pointing out that the video was doctored |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:22:12 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:23:04 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: I think they're just pointing out that the video was doctored Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? I think they're just pointing out that the video was doctored This, it is enhanced to allow for finer details to be seen vs the original video. Though it can create some strange artifacts at times. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:24:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#16]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:25:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Russian source map.
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:26:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#18]
Airbursting mortars about 17 seconds in, they have a digital set fuse.
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:28:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: https://twitter.com/INTobservers/status/1656936880003317760 13 min video. 
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:34:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fike]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This, it is enhanced to allow for finer details to be seen vs the original video. Though it can create some strange artifacts at times. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? I think they're just pointing out that the video was doctored This, it is enhanced to allow for finer details to be seen vs the original video. Though it can create some strange artifacts at times. “AI” upscaling can work wonders with good source material. Mentioning the upscaling settings is good form in this context. If anyone is interested, the below product is one of the best. https://www.topazlabs.com/ |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:34:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? Image enhancement specs of the video. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:35:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By atavistic: It's going to be a bad month to be a Russian life insurance company. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:36:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Russian source map.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv6iD0rXoAEd4ft?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 So it’s safe to assume it’s a bit worse than what they show. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:38:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: So it’s safe to assume it’s a bit worse than what they show. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Russian source map.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv6iD0rXoAEd4ft?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 So it’s safe to assume it’s a bit worse than what they show. Usually, to me it's pretty bad they are admitting to losing ground in the city itself to Ukrainian forces this morning. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:41:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? Topaz Labs AI image enhancing software |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:41:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Yes the F-16 is a vastly superior plane when compared to the MiG-29 especially in terms of avionics, weapons, radar, etc. but regardless of what 4th gen plane is being flown by Ukraine they would still have to contend with the SAM rings of S400 systems which make flying at medium to high altitudes impossible to safely operate in for long so they'll continue to forced to operate at low altitudes. This limitation will impact the lawn darts already short range radar and aerodynamically limit the max-range of the AMRAAM missile making its BVR capability almost a moot point from a range perspective but at least finally gives Ukraine a fire-and-forget capability. But the F-16 is more badly needed for ATG missions and if they can pair them with the HTS pod they can take full advantage of the HARM's various SAM killing modes although they'll still be likely unable to bop the S400s. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/65378/asgasg_PNG-2788092.png Regardless, all this talk of newer jets for Ukraine is a moot point as this administration has zero appetite to provide them and unfortunately for Ukraine is becoming a post-war project.. Question (Serious): Why are the S400's not engaging now? Are they and we don't hear of it? Are all UKR planes staying on the deck at all times? Based on that coverage, how can anything fly over Ukraine? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:41:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: I think they're just pointing out that the video was doctored Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Someone explain to me all this "dehalo, 150% Ai 30 fps to 50 fps, bullshit? Why are alot of videos like that? I think they're just pointing out that the video was doctored I think it's them slowing down the videos and cleaning them up. They are telling you it has been altered and what they did to it. Usually they do it to show a javelin or off route mine strike on a tank. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:43:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Question (Serious): Why are the S400's not engaging now? Are they and we don't hear of it? Are all UKR planes staying on the deck at all times? Based on that coverage, how can anything fly over Ukraine? Combination of low flying and Russian junk not being as good as claimed |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:43:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: "No body, no claim" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By atavistic: It's going to be a bad month to be a Russian life insurance company. Lol….”Russian Life Insurance” hahahaha…sure, sure, sure. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:47:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#30]
Russian thermal drone point of view, it gets rammed by a Ukrainian one from below.
https://twitter.com/PaulJawin/status/1656993494395756545 |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:47:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: man that was a very interesting and very detailed look at Russia's missile use!! thanks for that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Zam18th: https://www.csis.org/analysis/putins-missile-war Putin's Missile War Russia's Strike Campaign in Ukraine Russia's missile campaign against Ukraine has severely underperformed expectations. In the invasion's early days, Russia underestimated the necessary scale and effort of its missile campaign. Since then, Russia has changed course multiple times, most recently moving to target Ukrainian electrical grid and civilian infrastructure during the winter months. Russia's haphazard missile campaign reflects both internal strategic failures and Ukraine's critical forward thinking in the days prior to the invasion. Early Russian failures also gave time for Ukraine to develop its air defense strategy and capabilities which have only grown in effectiveness, thanks in large part to Western aid. This report provides an in-depth review of these and related "missile war" dynamics. man that was a very interesting and very detailed look at Russia's missile use!! thanks for that. x2 |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 9:52:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Question (Serious): Why are the S400's not engaging now? Are they and we don't hear of it? Are all UKR planes staying on the deck at all times? Based on that coverage, how can anything fly over Ukraine? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Originally Posted By Brok3n: Yes the F-16 is a vastly superior plane when compared to the MiG-29 especially in terms of avionics, weapons, radar, etc. but regardless of what 4th gen plane is being flown by Ukraine they would still have to contend with the SAM rings of S400 systems which make flying at medium to high altitudes impossible to safely operate in for long so they'll continue to forced to operate at low altitudes. This limitation will impact the lawn darts already short range radar and aerodynamically limit the max-range of the AMRAAM missile making its BVR capability almost a moot point from a range perspective but at least finally gives Ukraine a fire-and-forget capability. But the F-16 is more badly needed for ATG missions and if they can pair them with the HTS pod they can take full advantage of the HARM's various SAM killing modes although they'll still be likely unable to bop the S400s. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/65378/asgasg_PNG-2788092.png Regardless, all this talk of newer jets for Ukraine is a moot point as this administration has zero appetite to provide them and unfortunately for Ukraine is becoming a post-war project.. Question (Serious): Why are the S400's not engaging now? Are they and we don't hear of it? Are all UKR planes staying on the deck at all times? Based on that coverage, how can anything fly over Ukraine? SAM coverage is not an impenetrable wall, but as you fly lower and put terrain between you and the SAM it allows aircraft to have access to areas that is covered at higher altitudes by those SAM units. I'll see if I can find a handy graphic to show. But those rings gets much smaller the lower you fly and if terrain blocks part of the coverage. Edit: same idea, same SAM coverage area as the top picture, but stealth and electronic warfare changes the area the planes can fly avoiding the SAM. Same idea works for less stealthy aircraft flying lower to the ground and using terrain.  A good article explaining the S-400. https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/the-s-400-myth-why-russias-air-defense-prowess-is-exaggerated/ |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:00:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: @Charging_Handle yea im sure you would have a better idea than i would, I just watched the interview on youtube consisting of F-16 pilots giving there opinion of the F-16 in that theater and there overall opinion was a big nope.. if i can find the clip ill post it but i cant even remember what channel it was. also they said that most of the high tech stuff that makes the F-16 able to fire the newest standoff weapons would be removed before handing them over to Ukraine if the US chose to do so. they said there would be no chance in hell that they would risk that tech falling into russian hands right now. edited: i was trying to GOOGLE the youtube video and did not find the one i watched but here is a similar written article about survivability of the F-16 saying it wouldnt have a "fighting" chance there. https://www.businessinsider.com/former-f-16-pilot-aircraft-no-fighting-chance-over-ukraine-2023-5 "In a commentary published on the think tank's website last month, Venable wrote that the F-16 was not suited for Ukraine's air force for several reasons, including that the S-400 could outsmart the F-16's targeting systems and that it could target the fighter jets before they're in range to fire weapons like Small Diameter Bombs." "Venable said that when he was flying F-16s over Europe earlier in his career as a pilot, his aircraft had solid jamming pods that worked against threats posed by the SA-6 and SA-11 Soviet-era SAM systems. He said that he would have felt comfortable going up against the integrated Soviet air defenses in the 1980s and 1990s knowing he was backed by HARM targeting" systems designed to take those on." "The threat would've been high. There would've been a good possibility that I would've been shot down, but also at least an equal possibility that I could have made it to the target, hit my target, and then I drop successfully and then egress safely from the battlefield," Venable said. But there's since been a "whole leap in capabilities" from those to the current Russian SAM systems that have evolved over time. "I had a fighting chance back then," he said. "Today, there is no fighting chance." Honestly it does not sound very different from Vietnam era, where the Russians also had a strong presence of SAMs. Ukraine would need to perform SEAD missions to secure their airspace. Yes, there would be losses of F-16s and Ukrainian pilots. That is pretty much a given any time we are fighting a "near peer" like Russia. F-16s could take out SAM sites with long range missiles instead of bombs, just like it has been done in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel The reason why Ukraine is not getting F-16s is political, not because they would not be useful on the battlefield. I guess the US is not comfortable targeting SAM sites that are within Russia proper, but it would be hard to argue that they are not legitimate targets. Air dominance would be a huge step forward for Ukraine. Also, if we can bleed the Russian Air Force dry by sacrificing relatively "cheap" F-16s, that tradeoff does not sound very different from how we exhausted their supply of tanks. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:08:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv6p4HhWYAAOi6w?format=jpg&name=900x900
Interesting. The Oplot seems to be a pretty capable tank but I wonder how they plan to get them back into production? They were produced at a factory in Kharkiv which I have to assume has been thoroughly destroyed by Russian bombardment over the past year plus. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:12:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Interesting. The Oplot seems to be a pretty capable tank but I wonder how they plan to get them back into production? They were produced at a factory in Kharkiv which I have to assume has been thoroughly destroyed by Russian bombardment over the past year plus. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv6p4HhWYAAOi6w?format=jpg&name=900x900
Interesting. The Oplot seems to be a pretty capable tank but I wonder how they plan to get them back into production? They were produced at a factory in Kharkiv which I have to assume has been thoroughly destroyed by Russian bombardment over the past year plus. Yeah, I am wondering if they simply dispersed the manufacturing and took it underground in some cases. I was surprised to see this initiative. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:12:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Interesting. The Oplot seems to be a pretty capable tank but I wonder how they plan to get them back into production? They were produced at a factory in Kharkiv which I have to assume has been thoroughly destroyed by Russian bombardment over the past year plus. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv6p4HhWYAAOi6w?format=jpg&name=900x900
Interesting. The Oplot seems to be a pretty capable tank but I wonder how they plan to get them back into production? They were produced at a factory in Kharkiv which I have to assume has been thoroughly destroyed by Russian bombardment over the past year plus. With a big enough order, maybe the plan is to build a new factory much further West. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:13:12 AM EDT
[#37]
More importantly, this also confirms that the Ukrainian supply lines have gotten considerable relief and are in no immediate way to be cut off. Also, I don't think that this is *the* counteroffensive, but more of a local development based on the Russian loss of troops and, effectively, momentum. Prigozhin's complaint might be genuine, considering that Shoigu will need all reserves for the upcoming Ukrainian offensive and most certainly will not be inclined to help his rival. Either way, in my opinion and judging the current situation the Ukrainian determination to continue to defend Bakhmut has turned out to be the absolutely right decision. 
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:18:44 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: That thing has to be all battery to get 600 miles out of it. Is the lithium battery also the explosive? A little extra incendiary |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:19:40 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:22:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: https://twitter.com/INTobservers/status/1656936880003317760 13 min video. Great video. We saw several pieces of that previously. The body that’s close to the dugout is a Ukrainian who took a headshot in the previous assault. By the end of the video, he’s been retrieved. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:22:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Wagner map.  
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:25:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Saltwater-Hillbilly]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Question (Serious): Why are the S400's not engaging now? Are they and we don't hear of it? Are all UKR planes staying on the deck at all times? Based on that coverage, how can anything fly over Ukraine? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Originally Posted By Brok3n: Yes the F-16 is a vastly superior plane when compared to the MiG-29 especially in terms of avionics, weapons, radar, etc. but regardless of what 4th gen plane is being flown by Ukraine they would still have to contend with the SAM rings of S400 systems which make flying at medium to high altitudes impossible to safely operate in for long so they'll continue to forced to operate at low altitudes. This limitation will impact the lawn darts already short range radar and aerodynamically limit the max-range of the AMRAAM missile making its BVR capability almost a moot point from a range perspective but at least finally gives Ukraine a fire-and-forget capability. But the F-16 is more badly needed for ATG missions and if they can pair them with the HTS pod they can take full advantage of the HARM's various SAM killing modes although they'll still be likely unable to bop the S400s. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/65378/asgasg_PNG-2788092.png Regardless, all this talk of newer jets for Ukraine is a moot point as this administration has zero appetite to provide them and unfortunately for Ukraine is becoming a post-war project.. Question (Serious): Why are the S400's not engaging now? Are they and we don't hear of it? Are all UKR planes staying on the deck at all times? Based on that coverage, how can anything fly over Ukraine? Answer: Attack profiles that minimize the S-400 to track, acquire and engage Ukrainian targets. Generally, flying low and fast at altitudes below or near the radar horizon for the S300 and S400 systems. Effective, but it requires extreme maneuvering due both to the SHORAD threat and terrain avoidance issues. There are other methods, such as firing near a system overlap, identifying or creating coverage "gaps", "shadowing", High-speed ingress/egress, etc. The problem with ALLL of these is that they significantly inhibit/degrade the successful employment of precision strike munitions. The physics problem is similar (but more complex) to trying to accurately shoot a firearm from a vehicle going along a mountain highway at 100mph while the driver is trying to dodge fire from people shooting at y'all from both the shoulders of the road and the hills. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:30:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv7RMKrWcAApf1U?format=png&name=small As a history guy, statements similar "we hope to have this wrapped up by Christmas" make me nervous. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:33:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Don't forget about him. We have Arfcommers here in this thread in Ukraine who comment, post, and chat daily. One guy goes to Russia and disappears when the war goes south for Russia. Ironic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: Forgot about him. Don't forget about him. We have Arfcommers here in this thread in Ukraine who comment, post, and chat daily. One guy goes to Russia and disappears when the war goes south for Russia. Ironic. Wonder how OutofBattery is doing, I know just that he changed his username on here but was otherwise well last year. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:35:22 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: All excellent points and you know much more about it than me. But many experts miss the urgency of the situation for Ukraine OR seem desperate to keep them fighting of the defense without too much progress. I look at Ukraine like a person drowning. The need a life preserver right fucking now. They are begging for help and all the Western experts are talking about long term training programs to teach them the backstroke and the butterfly before throwing the damned life preserver. Give them a dozen fucking planes and let them figure something out. Ukraine is not Afghanistan where you first have to teach them to read before they could read a manual. They have experience pilots apparently training now. If they all get shot down or fall apart on the shitty UA runways, then start talking about giving them Gripens in 2087 after they have built 87 improved runways etc. But I bet that as soon as the first F16 arrives in UA hands, the effect on the Russians will be felt immediately. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Capta: The whole ‘western jets” thing may just be a canard. I’ve watched a few of the more professionally oriented commentaries on the issue, and there’s agreement that Gripen was the only possible short-term answer. With Sweden being kept out of NATO for now, they aren’t keen on handing over a lot of their own AC. F16 may well be the long-term answer, but it would need a major, major capitol improvement project in Ukraine. New runways which are well-maintained, and a large number of them to serve as alternates. That’s the biggest obstacle along with shelters and the infrastructure to support a dispersed air force in the field. These are all huge problems which are totally glossed over most of the time. One commentator made the point that the best case would be a squadron of Gripens with Meteor, with the goal mainly to push Russian planes back from the line, keep them at risk, and cause attrition. IMO the west is just milking the issue as a means of “escalation management” - that is, they threaten to send jets so that Russia can be pleased that we only sent GMLRS/GLSDB. In reality, GMLRS/GLSDB (and yes, ATACMS should be there too) is providing Ukraine FAR more practical utility than jets. All excellent points and you know much more about it than me. But many experts miss the urgency of the situation for Ukraine OR seem desperate to keep them fighting of the defense without too much progress. I look at Ukraine like a person drowning. The need a life preserver right fucking now. They are begging for help and all the Western experts are talking about long term training programs to teach them the backstroke and the butterfly before throwing the damned life preserver. Give them a dozen fucking planes and let them figure something out. Ukraine is not Afghanistan where you first have to teach them to read before they could read a manual. They have experience pilots apparently training now. If they all get shot down or fall apart on the shitty UA runways, then start talking about giving them Gripens in 2087 after they have built 87 improved runways etc. But I bet that as soon as the first F16 arrives in UA hands, the effect on the Russians will be felt immediately. The problem with tossing them planes immediately without training pilots and ground crews is the pilots will likely struggle to be effective at the same time disclosing all manner of intel on the platforms so counters can be developed and without trained maintenance they will be on the ground longer and longer until they can figure it out. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:40:19 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Shaping operations.
I’m never quite sure how to read these but I do know those are the highest concentrations hit numbers I’ve seen in a single day if I’m not mistaken |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:41:52 AM EDT
[#47]
 
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:43:44 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv7RMKrWcAApf1U?format=png&name=small |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:46:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv4Wqp5XwAAniTr?format=jpg&name=small Still remember that one from last summer |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:48:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv7jJ13XwAEu65h?format=jpg&name=large Bet they take that m-03 highway at the northern tip and zip down and flank the hell out of them over the weekend. |
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