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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:06:14 PM EDT
[#1]
I believe its possible to take Crimea. It won't be easy or quick but it can be done.
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:08:30 PM EDT
[#2]
 Live in Lviv - Panel 2 - Reporting in Wartime - with Alina Poliakova, John Sweeney, Julia and Taras. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:10:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: No. If there was an agreement Russia once again used it as a "cease fire" to invade more nations and stop them from joining Nato. In November of 1990 Russia backed "Transnistrians" fought against Moldova to create the fake puppet state of "Transnistria". Later they also backed invasions into Georgia to create "Abkhazia" and "South Ossetia". This was before any new members joined Nato. Again, not sure what your point was with this. The countries that joined NATO were smart for doing so. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:13:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: The problem is that Russia does not view Ukraine and Belarus as being sovereign entities. In Russia's eyes, Belarusians and Ukrainians are branches of a single Russian 'people' and their statehood cannot exist separate from Russia. Russian leaders have never respected and have long refused to view Ukraine as being a sovereign country, taking the entire decade of the '90s to recognize its borders. Historically and into the present, Russia has viewed any Ukrainian identity that exists separate from Russia as being attributable to foreign conspiracies, such as Sweden during the Great Northern War, Germany during WW2, Western and Israeli intelligence agencies during the Cold War, the EU and the US today, etc. The usurpation/annexation of Ukraine in one form or another was basically decided by the Russian deep state in 1991, right after the breakup of the USSR. The first plans to reintegrate Ukraine were solely political; it was thought that it could be gone through the elites. That is, Kuchma and the oligarchs. This didn't work due to the first Maidan in 2004. After that, a more aggressive approach was selected, and by that time, Putin had consolidated his grip on power and dictated the Russian deep state. The plan was a two-pronged operation, focusing first in political overtaking through Yanukovich and bought oligarchs, and if that didn't work - turning Ukraine into a failed state that would be sliced apart via manufactured unrest in the east and Crimea. The foundations of the L/DPR were being formed years before 2014, and I've seen evidence that Russia was supporting separatism in Crimea as early as 2009. I do agree that once it became clear that Russia couldn't control Ukraine politically, they were going to intervene militarily. That doesn't mean that this is something that should be tolerated by the civilized world, though. We're at the point in which Russia has made its genocidal ambitions clear, through deporting and brainwashing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children, conducting mass executions in occupied Ukraine, stating openly that Ukrainian identity is paramount to Nazism and must be eradicated, moving hoards of Russians into occupied cities like Mariupol, etc. I haven't bought into realpolitik and foreign policy realism enough to view these actions as being acceptable or tolerable. We are in general agreement here. The Russians would have preferred to keep both as states, but since that was a no-go puppets were good enough. The only problem became when Ukraine no longer was a puppet and that couldn't be tolerated, but in 2014 the Russian military was more of a joke than it was a few years later. They got lucky in the bum-rush, they thought they would get lucky again. They didn't and that is where we are today. Honestly it would have been way better if Obama actually stood up to Putin in 2014, but we all know how well his foreign policy worked. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:14:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: The fact that they want to "do something about" a defensive alliance that exists solely to stop Russia from invading and annexing other countries tells you all your need to know. Ukraine joining NATO isn't a threat to Russia. It's the reverse - Russia saw it as a "now or never" situation where their long term goal of invading Ukraine was being put at risk. Like I said, Russia has always seen NATO as threat, it doesn't make sense but thats been their position pretty much forever. Doesn't have to make sense. You just have to accept it for what it is to predict their actions. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:15:08 PM EDT
[#6]
U.S. in Talks to Develop Ukraine's Grain Export Routes
Western planning for alternatives to the Black Sea Grain Initiative shows how the U.S., Ukraine and European countries are preparing for a scenario in which Russia doesn’t rejoin the deal in time to move Ukraine’s summer and fall harvests. ... The U.S. is considering all potential options, including military solutions, to protect ships headed to and from Ukraine’s Danube ports, the Washington official said, but declined to give specifics on those options or say what countries would be involved in them. The US is apparently exploring a grain deal without Russia. If we get to the point that NATO is actually escorting and protecting ships in the Black Sea and Russia does nothing about it (that's the most likely outcome IMO), that's going to embolden NATO considerably. A criticism that's often thrown forward of the argument that Ukraine should cede territory and join NATO has been that NATO members won't actually nut up and take that risk. However, pointless destabilizing choices on the part of Russia such as fucking with the grain deal piss off NATO members, increases their willingness to get involved and fix things, and gets them used to doing things without Russia's permission. That's not exactly the precedent Russia wants to be creating and normalizing. They had a good thing going with the grain deal, and it was a mistake for them to end it. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:15:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Shitty spelling? Yeah I'm stuck in Dutch correction here. I, for one, think seeing some of your native language spelling is actually pretty cool. 'Gorbatsjov' in particular is an interesting transliteration of a name that started in a another language, and yet I got to see it after Dutch phonetics were applied. You'll get no complaints from me about that. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:15:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By METT-T: Anyone looking objectively at possible outcomes of Russia invading Ukraine could've seen it was likely Finland and Sweden would join NATO. After they joined Putin hasn't reinforced his border, nobody's made a big stink about it. Fear of NATO expansion is a fig leaf. Putin invaded Ukraine because he thinks he owns it. And even if it was real, all this talk about NATO expansion is like NATO rolled up one day and snatched Poland and Romania and the Baltics off the street and stuffed them in a van. These countries are full of live human beings seeking liberty and justice and wanting to get away from butt-fucking Russia. They've seen the Rusky Mir and want no part of it. Russia doesn't get to tell them otherwise. This. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:15:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Not sure if this has been posted.
Kickstarter project https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woodenarmy/m142-himars-interactive-wooden-kit-of-legendary-weapon  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:20:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: I kinda want to buy a big stack of rubles. Just a dollars worth or so. Is that legal? Just for collecting/gloating purposes. Interesting question. I wonder if a bank in Brazil could get me a small amount? Would there is any problem bringing it home? |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:21:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: We are in general agreement here. The Russians would have preferred to keep both as states, but since that was a no-go puppets were good enough. The only problem became when Ukraine no longer was a puppet and that couldn't be tolerated, but in 2014 the Russian military was more of a joke than it was a few years later. They got lucky in the bum-rush, they thought they would get lucky again. They didn't and that is where we are today. Honestly it would have been way better if Obama actually stood up to Putin in 2014, but we all know how well his foreign policy worked. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: The problem is that Russia does not view Ukraine and Belarus as being sovereign entities. In Russia's eyes, Belarusians and Ukrainians are branches of a single Russian 'people' and their statehood cannot exist separate from Russia. Russian leaders have never respected and have long refused to view Ukraine as being a sovereign country, taking the entire decade of the '90s to recognize its borders. Historically and into the present, Russia has viewed any Ukrainian identity that exists separate from Russia as being attributable to foreign conspiracies, such as Sweden during the Great Northern War, Germany during WW2, Western and Israeli intelligence agencies during the Cold War, the EU and the US today, etc. The usurpation/annexation of Ukraine in one form or another was basically decided by the Russian deep state in 1991, right after the breakup of the USSR. The first plans to reintegrate Ukraine were solely political; it was thought that it could be gone through the elites. That is, Kuchma and the oligarchs. This didn't work due to the first Maidan in 2004. After that, a more aggressive approach was selected, and by that time, Putin had consolidated his grip on power and dictated the Russian deep state. The plan was a two-pronged operation, focusing first in political overtaking through Yanukovich and bought oligarchs, and if that didn't work - turning Ukraine into a failed state that would be sliced apart via manufactured unrest in the east and Crimea. The foundations of the L/DPR were being formed years before 2014, and I've seen evidence that Russia was supporting separatism in Crimea as early as 2009. I do agree that once it became clear that Russia couldn't control Ukraine politically, they were going to intervene militarily. That doesn't mean that this is something that should be tolerated by the civilized world, though. We're at the point in which Russia has made its genocidal ambitions clear, through deporting and brainwashing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children, conducting mass executions in occupied Ukraine, stating openly that Ukrainian identity is paramount to Nazism and must be eradicated, moving hoards of Russians into occupied cities like Mariupol, etc. I haven't bought into realpolitik and foreign policy realism enough to view these actions as being acceptable or tolerable. We are in general agreement here. The Russians would have preferred to keep both as states, but since that was a no-go puppets were good enough. The only problem became when Ukraine no longer was a puppet and that couldn't be tolerated, but in 2014 the Russian military was more of a joke than it was a few years later. They got lucky in the bum-rush, they thought they would get lucky again. They didn't and that is where we are today. Honestly it would have been way better if Obama actually stood up to Putin in 2014, but we all know how well his foreign policy worked. Obama tried to "reset" relations with Russia immediately after Medvedev invaded Georgia, embarrassed himself with the red line debacle in Syria, and didn't take hard enough of a response to Russia's actions in Crimea and the Donbas. In hindsight, we should've taken a stronger stance against Russian action in Syria, and we (meaning the west as a whole) should've been more willing to arm Ukraine than we were from 2014 - 2021. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:28:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I'm a millenial. I hate bullies of any kind. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I'm a millenial. I hate bullies of any kind. Same here. Though when they're communist bullies it adds an extra dimension to the hate. Originally Posted By m35ben: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390973/m1hruo299phb1-2919983.png That's why I want you to stick around, Ben. You post some funny stuff. Agreed. And that humor remains a powerful weapon. None of the Marxist crowd can tolerate being ridiculed. They demand respect and fear, but deserve only contempt, derision, and tungsten rain. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:30:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Harlikwin]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Obama tried to "reset" relations with Russia immediately after Medvedev invaded Georgia, embarrassed himself with the red line debacle in Syria, and didn't take hard enough of a response to Russia's actions in Crimea and the Donbas. In hindsight, we should've taken a stronger stance against Russian action in Syria, and we (meaning the west as a whole) should've been more willing to arm Ukraine than we were from 2014 - 2021. Like I said Obamas foreign policy was total shit. And honestly if Trump was re-elected, this wouldn't be happening IMO. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:32:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: Not sure if this has been posted. Kickstarter project https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woodenarmy/m142-himars-interactive-wooden-kit-of-legendary-weapon https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/299228/1e4fd0da1027497ea925803ec8380976_origina-2921220.JPG Pretty cool! |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:34:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Like I said Obamas foreign policy was total shit. And honestly if Trump was re-elected, this wouldn't be happening IMO. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Obama tried to "reset" relations with Russia immediately after Medvedev invaded Georgia, embarrassed himself with the red line debacle in Syria, and didn't take hard enough of a response to Russia's actions in Crimea and the Donbas. In hindsight, we should've taken a stronger stance against Russian action in Syria, and we (meaning the west as a whole) should've been more willing to arm Ukraine than we were from 2014 - 2021. Like I said Obamas foreign policy was total shit. And honestly if Trump was re-elected, this wouldn't be happening IMO. Maybe, maybe not. My perspective is that this is such an ideologically important fight for Russian nationalists that this was going to happen at one point or another, regardless of who occupied the White House. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:36:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: NATO has just been the Soviet/Russian boogeyman forever. They are pathologically fearful about it. It doesn't make make much sense, but to them its the great Satan. Hence why they invaded and tried to get at least something out of it. Especially after POTATOUS basically green lit them doing it. Putin probably thought/hoped it would be a repeat of 2014 just on a larger scale. @Harlikwin Please read this and reassess. Russia's leaders don't care about NATO, because they know absolutely that NATO is no threat to Russia. They use it as a boogeyman to the common people, but the leaders absolutely know NATO is a dog that always stays on its own side of the fence. We can see this because they've stripped their northwestern frontier to send all the troops & equipment to Ukraine. Putin's repeated, emphatic comments indicate clearly that this conflict is about restoring Russia to its rightful empire. Nothing more, nothing less. You can also see plenty of videos on Russian Media Monitor or TheKremlinYap twitter feed where the Russians repeatedly go on about how Ukraine has no right to even exist, and Russia will take it all because it's theirs. Ukraine should never have been independent. NATO doesn't come into it at all. In their own words. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:40:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Like I said Obamas foreign policy was total shit. And honestly if Trump was re-elected, this wouldn't be happening IMO. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Obama tried to "reset" relations with Russia immediately after Medvedev invaded Georgia, embarrassed himself with the red line debacle in Syria, and didn't take hard enough of a response to Russia's actions in Crimea and the Donbas. In hindsight, we should've taken a stronger stance against Russian action in Syria, and we (meaning the west as a whole) should've been more willing to arm Ukraine than we were from 2014 - 2021. Like I said Obamas foreign policy was total shit. And honestly if Trump was re-elected, this wouldn't be happening IMO. I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:47:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Devils advocate here….your statement….how would Ukraine joining NATO going to destroy Russia (as you imply…although it’s more likely now than it ever was)? Would the “threat” come from that keeping them from being invaded by Russia forever and that be what gets Russia upset (no longer able to invade control them)? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By MarkNH: So it’s Ukraine’s fault they got invaded, they encouraged the rapist by wearing that short skirt…….  They gave up their protection (nukes/bombers) and in return Russia promised to respect their borders. NATO failed when they let Russia invade in 2014 without consequences (after seeing what happened in Chechnya and Georgia). Not really their fault. The west was weak, and putin took advantage of it in 2014. I mean from Putins perspective he literally had nothing to loose. Option 1 is to let Ukraine join NATO and hes fucked. Or option 2 is to try to take as much of ukraine AND THEN they join NATO. So not really a hard choice for him, though I assume he thought it would go way better than it has. Devils advocate here….your statement….how would Ukraine joining NATO going to destroy Russia (as you imply…although it’s more likely now than it ever was)? Would the “threat” come from that keeping them from being invaded by Russia forever and that be what gets Russia upset (no longer able to invade control them)? exactly, How is the west not more of a threat to Russia NOW that he has invaded Ukraine? That point seems to be avoided in this conversation I see. NATO even with Ukraine joining NATO would be less of a threat to them than we are now, especially with every major European country building up there military due to Putins action alone. He alone caused that to happen. He has only himself to blame. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:50:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Jagga jagga.
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:55:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Obama tried to "reset" relations with Russia immediately after Medvedev invaded Georgia, embarrassed himself with the red line debacle in Syria, and didn't take hard enough of a response to Russia's actions in Crimea and the Donbas. In hindsight, we should've taken a stronger stance against Russian action in Syria, and we (meaning the west as a whole) should've been more willing to arm Ukraine than we were from 2014 - 2021. Like I said Obamas foreign policy was total shit. And honestly if Trump was re-elected, this wouldn't be happening IMO. I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. After Wagner's Syria debacle, I highly doubt that Putin saw Trump as any kind of kindred soul or asset. I doubt that Putin would have cancelled the invasion, but he may would have held off for some time. We have to remember the rot is bipartisan, as one of Trump's main persecutors was just convicted of taking money from the Ruskies. You don't have to like Trump; as a matter of fact, you have every right to hate the arrogant SOB. However, we have to understand the weakness of Western governments in general and Germany in particular (going back to Bill and Hillary Clinton, Tony Blair, Bush II, Schroeder, Merkel, Obama, Hollonade, Marcon and a cast of many others). Putin likely would have waited out Trump and waited until President Buttigieg or President Harris took office in 2025 to make his move. |
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:57:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. Putin didn't do shit when Trump was in office. That is some left wing bullshit. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2023 11:59:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Glock63]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. Since putin's wagner boys were slaughtered in Syria while trump was in office, your theory that putin views him as an asset is laughable. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:09:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Since putin's wagner boys were slaughtered in Syria while trump was in office, your theory that putin views him as an asset is laughable. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Originally Posted By AROKIE: I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. Since putin's wagner boys were slaughtered in Syria while trump was in office, your theory that putin views him as an asset is laughable. lol ok. So if Trump was not in office we would have retreated in the face of the wagner assualt in syria at that time?  Or you just think the only reason they got slaughtered because trump was President? Wonder why Putin even allowed that assualt to happen at that time?
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:09:55 AM EDT
[#24]
1420 asking men about the new penalties for evading conscription. Some interesting responses.
 5 years in jail or going to war? |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:16:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryThis was very good and worth the listen.
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:19:57 AM EDT
[#26]
https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid0zMdk5HBhDHR23w3K8x65Ce1RKGZQHgMb4ZHBtDp8VzpgLdP8GYSXKFYaSzuq6QhGl Генеральний штаб ЗСУ / General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine 33m · Operational information as of 06.00 16.08.2023 on Russian invasion Glory to Ukraine! The five hundred thirty-ninth age of the Russian Federation's armed aggression against our state began. Tonight, the Russian Federation launched another air strike on Ukraine using Iranian Shahed-136/131 strike drones. Information on the consequences of this terrorist attack is currently being clarified. Over the past day Russian occupants struck the territory of Ukraine with air and sea missiles. In total, launches of at least 28 winged missiles of different types were recorded: 4 winged missiles H-22, 20 winged missiles X-101/X-555 and 4 winged "Caliber" type missiles. Our anti-air defense was destroyed 16 winged missiles h-101 / h-555 and "caliber". In addition to this, at least 8 launches of enemy zenínih controlled missiles S-300 and S-400 were recorded in the Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhya regions. In total, during the past day, the enemy launched 42 missiles and 56 air strikes, and fired 36 fire from fire-fire jet systems at the positions of our troops and settlements. As a result of Russian terrorist attacks, unfortunately, there are deaths and injured among the civilian population, including children. Residential buildings and other civilian infrastructure were destroyed. The probability of missile and air strikes throughout Ukraine remains high. Over the past day, about 30 combat clashes took place. In the Volyn and Polish directions there is an operational environment without significant changes. In the Siversky and Slobozhansky directions, the opponent carried out air strikes in the area of Athens, Jastrubyny and Pavlivka of Sumy region. Carried out mortar and artillery shelling over 30 settlements, namely timonovichi, khotiyivka, gremyach of chernihiv region; sytne, šaligine, stepne, ugroydi, half of sumy region and graniv, pltenivka, ohrimivka, kreydyanka, vilkhuvatka in kharkiv region. In the Kupyan direction, the opponent led unsuccessful offensive actions in the areas of southeast Vilshaniv and eastern Petropavlivki Kharkiv region. Gave aviation strikes in the areas of ivanivka, zagrizovogo, vilšanív kharkiv region and stelmakhivki luhansk region. Artillery and mortar shelling of the opponent suffered the settlements of Kupiansk, Píščna, Cherneshchina Kharkiv region. In the Lyman direction, the opponent struck aviation in the areas of bilogorívka luhansk region and siversk, controversial, merry donetsk region. Artillery shelling of the enemy was hit by the settlements of Kolodyazi and Siversk of the Donetsk region. In the Bakhmut direction, the opponent struck aviation in the areas of Vasyukivka, Klishyivka, Andriyivka and northern Donetsk region. More than 15 settlements were affected by enemy artillery shelling, among them Minkivka, Grigorivka, Bakhmut, Ivanivsk, Predtečine and Diliyivka of Donetsk region. In the Avdiivka direction, the enemy carried out unsuccessful offensive actions in the area of southern Avdiivka Donetsk region. Gave aviation strikes in the areas of avdiívki and nevel рівs онаkogo. Artillery shelling was reported in more than 10 settlements, among them Novokalinove, Semenivka, Jasnobrodivka, Karlivka, Nevelske Donetsk region. In the Maryinsky direction, the defense forces continue to suppress the advance of Russian troops in the area of the cities of Maryinka and Krasnogorivka Donetsk region. The enemy inflicted an air strike in the area of Krasnogorívka Donetsk region. More than 10 settlements suffered artillery shelling, including Krasnogorívka, Pobeda, Novomykhajlivka, Antonivka and Yelizavetivka of Donetsk region. In the Mining direction, the enemy made unsuccessful attempts to restore the lost position in the area of the Harvesting Donetsk region. Conducted aviation strikes in the areas of Velikoí̈ Novosílka, Makarívka, Staromayorsky and Harvest Donetsk region. Artillery shelling was experienced by more than 10 settlements, among them Bogoyavlenka, Zolota Niva, Urozhayne, Blodatne, Neskučne and Rivnopil of Donetsk region. In the Zaporizhzhya direction, the enemy carried out air strikes in the areas of Omelnyk, Malaya Tokmachka, Novodanilivka and Robotiny Zaporizhya region. More than 25 settlements were affected by enemy artillery shelling, among them Levadne, Gulyajpole, Bilogiria, Lukyanivsk, Pyatihatki, Plavni Zaporozhye region. In the Kherson direction, the opponent inflicted aviation strikes in the areas of mykolaivka and the garden kherson region. Artillery shelling of the enemy suffered such settlements as Ponyativka, Kherson, Novodmitrivka Kherson region and Ochakiv Mykolaiv region. At the same time, the Defense Forces of Ukraine continue to conduct an offensive operation in the melítopol тьs батаkomu and berdâns кkomu directions, strengthen on the reached borders, carry out counterbataerejnoí̈ measures. Amidst the decline in the combat spirit of the personnel of the military units of the occupation troops, the enemy command increasingly succeeds in staging their successes. Yes, in the temporarily occupied settlement of Cossack Camp of Kherson region, preparation for filming by a Russian propaganda video based on the plot of "Extermination of 150 Ukrainian diversion-intelligence group in the local rural house of culture". However, in this building, as of August 13 this year, there is a staff of the occupation troops in number of up to 25 Russian soldiers among former prisoners. The Defense Forces Air Force carried out 7 strikes in the areas of focus of enemy personnel, weapons and military equipment during the past day. During the day, the missile and artillery units struck 4 artillery units at firing positions, 1 airborne missile complex and another important enemy object. Stand by our armed forces! We will win together! Glory to Ukraine! |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:22:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Putin didn't do shit when Trump was in office. That is some left wing bullshit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Originally Posted By AROKIE: I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. Putin didn't do shit when Trump was in office. That is some left wing bullshit. Putin used the friendly years Russia had with the USA while Trump was in office, he used those years to prepare for the invasion he had already had planned. Thats a fact. But Putin would have invaded Ukraine no matter what, even if he had to wait till trump served his 8 years. No matter what we would still be facing this same invasion now or later. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:26:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Putin didn't do shit when Trump was in office. That is some left wing bullshit. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:27:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Since putin's wagner boys were slaughtered in Syria while trump was in office, your theory that putin views him as an asset is laughable. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:27:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: NATO has just been the Soviet/Russian boogeyman forever. They are pathologically fearful about it. It doesn't make make much sense, but to them its the great Satan. Hence why they invaded and tried to get at least something out of it. Especially after POTATOUS basically green lit them doing it. Putin probably thought/hoped it would be a repeat of 2014 just on a larger scale. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:32:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#31]
 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:32:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Like I said, Russia has always seen NATO as threat, it doesn't make sense but thats been their position pretty much forever. Doesn't have to make sense. You just have to accept it for what it is to predict their actions. Russia knows the only threat NATO presents is to stop their imperial ambitions of putting back together the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:32:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#33]
The SBU used a new experimental Sea Baby sea drone to attack the Crimean Bridge in July 2023, CNN.
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:38:33 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:39:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: The SBU used a new experimental Sea Baby sea drone to attack the Crimean Bridge in July 2023, CNN.
They should have sent a dozen of them to strike it |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:48:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Putin used the friendly years Russia had with the USA while Trump was in office, he used those years to prepare for the invasion he had already had planned. Thats a fact. But Putin would have invaded Ukraine no matter what, even if he had to wait till trump served his 8 years. No matter what we would still be facing this same invasion now or later. Friendly years? Facts? You, making an incorrect statement does not make it a fact. Trump did exactly what he said he would and Wagner got decimated in Syria. Russia hit the pause button until Trump was gone. Trump wasn't in office in 2014. During the Trump years Russia didn't accomplish a thing. The Afghanistan nightmare is what led Russia to believe the full invasion would not be challenged; not Trump. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:50:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: METT-T]
[#37]
Julia Ioffe is a very smart and pretty lady and struck me as having some pretty solid takes on Putin's view of U.S. leaders and politics.
She said that Putin viewed Trump foremost as someone he could easily manipulate. I think that's pretty obvious. Being easily manipulated doesn't make someone an "asset" per se, but it does make them useful for shaping things to come. Trump was corrosive for NATO, rightly banging on the funding issue and pointing out Germany's dependence on Russian gas, but not smart enough to see the long-term value of NATO or make his criticisms in a way that improved the alliance. He was corrosive for Ukraine, too, making Zelensky unsure of his reliability as a partner. The flip side is that Trump was easily manipulated by others, and the Republican national security apparatus was not a pushover. How many times did Trump say he was going to withdraw from Syria to have Mattis or Bolton or Tillerson or whomever talk him out of it? That made him unpredictable, but helpful in the larger project of changing the status quo, dissolving the trans-Atlantic bond, turning America inward, turning us all into nihilists. I think Putin saw Biden as old and dumb, which he is. But I think he also bought at least some of the stuff about him being a puppet, shitting his pants, whatever. And he rightly saw Biden's party as being this navel-gazing identity-obsessed clown show, soft as puppy shit. But I don't think he quite grasped that there were serious people in the Democratic national security establishment, Blinken and Austin and Sullivan and the like. I think if there was a decision point it wasn't about which shitbag American politician was sitting in the White House but January 6th. The Russians had to have read that as a profound, potentially fatal moment in American democracy that would leave us paralyzed. But what they DIDN'T get was that no Republicans whose opinions actually mattered, i.e. members of Congress, folks in the executive branch (derp state), the judiciary, military, media, think tanks, governors, etc., really believed any of the stolen election/Trump-the-victim bullshit or intended to use it as cover to seize power. From the top of the American political right down to the statehouses it was theater, and nobody but the Q Anon Shaman and those other poor suckers were going to do anything different. So we were in a much higher state of national political readiness than he anticipated. Now he's faced with a Democratic Party that's likely more martial than he expected and pretty solidly pro-Ukraine and a fractured and nationally impotent Republican party where almost all the grownups are also behind Ukraine. So we're all fucked here on the train to tranny-town but things came out OK for the Ukrainians, anyway. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 12:55:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: The Afghanistan nightmare is what led Russia to believe the full invasion would not be challenged; not Trump. Afghanistan, yes, also a big factor I think. But viewed as a symptom of bipartisan American dysfunction and despondency. Took four presidents to lose Afghanistan and they all pitched in. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:01:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Friendly years? Facts? You, making an incorrect statement does not make it a fact. Trump did exactly what he said he would and Wagner got decimated in Syria. Russia hit the pause button until Trump was gone. Trump wasn't in office in 2014. During the Trump years Russia didn't accomplish a thing. The Afghanistan nightmare is what led Russia to believe the full invasion would not be challenged; not Trump. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Putin used the friendly years Russia had with the USA while Trump was in office, he used those years to prepare for the invasion he had already had planned. Thats a fact. But Putin would have invaded Ukraine no matter what, even if he had to wait till trump served his 8 years. No matter what we would still be facing this same invasion now or later. Friendly years? Facts? You, making an incorrect statement does not make it a fact. Trump did exactly what he said he would and Wagner got decimated in Syria. Russia hit the pause button until Trump was gone. Trump wasn't in office in 2014. During the Trump years Russia didn't accomplish a thing. The Afghanistan nightmare is what led Russia to believe the full invasion would not be challenged; not Trump. Afghanistan probably was a factor, but Russia started massing troops on Ukraine's border in April 2021. It was clearly planned before the shitshow in August. The withdraw was likely a final solidifying factor that convinced Putin he could invade and mostly go unpunished. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:03:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By METT-T: Julia Ioffe is a very smart and pretty lady and struck me as having some pretty solid takes on Putin's view of U.S. leaders and politics. She said that Putin viewed Trump foremost as someone he could easily manipulate. I think that's pretty obvious. Being easily manipulated doesn't make someone an "asset" per se, but it does make them useful for shaping things to come. Trump was corrosive for NATO, rightly banging on the funding issue and pointing out Germany's dependence on Russian gas, but not smart enough to see the long-term value of NATO or make his criticisms in a way that improved the alliance. He was corrosive for Ukraine, too, making Zelensky unsure of his reliability as a partner. The flip side is that Trump was easily manipulated by others, and the Republican national security apparatus was not a pushover. How many times did Trump say he was going to withdraw from Syria to have Mattis or Bolton or Tillerson or whomever talk him out of it? That made him unpredictable, but helpful in the larger project of changing the status quo, dissolving the trans-Atlantic bond, turning America inward, turning us all into nihilists. I think Putin saw Biden as old and dumb, which he is. But I think he also bought at least some of the stuff about him being a puppet, shitting his pants, whatever. And he rightly saw Biden's party as being this navel-gazing identity-obsessed clown show, soft as puppy shit. But I don't think he quite grasped that there were serious people in the Democratic national security establishment, Blinken and Austin and Sullivan and the like. I think if there was a decision point it wasn't about which shitbag American politician was sitting in the White House but January 6th. The Russians had to have read that as a profound, potentially fatal moment in American democracy that would leave us paralyzed. But what they DIDN'T get was that no Republicans whose opinions actually mattered, i.e. members of Congress, folks in the executive branch (derp state), the judiciary, military, media, think tanks, governors, etc., really believed any of the stolen election/Trump-the-victim bullshit or intended to use it as cover to seize power. From the top of the American political right down to the statehouses it was theater, and nobody but the Q Anon Shaman and those other poor suckers were going to do anything different. So we were in a much higher state of national political readiness than he anticipated. Now he's faced with a Democratic Party that's likely more martial than he expected and pretty solidly pro-Ukraine and a fractured and nationally impotent Republican party where almost all the grownups are also behind Ukraine. So we're all fucked here on the train to tranny-town but things came out OK for the Ukrainians, anyway. I completely agree with the above assessment. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:08:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#41]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:10:21 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Nope. But anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could have predicted the eventual invasion in ukraine. Doubly so when they lost control of it and Ukraine started to court NATO. Not saying it's right it just is what it is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By KELBEAST: So NATO violating an unwritten, unsigned agreement is grounds for Russia to violate a written, signed treaty to respect Ukraine’s borders? If that was Russia’s justification, what would it have taken to get them to avoid invading in the days and weeks leading up to February 2022? If NATO had said super sorry and pulled all westerners out of UA, would russia have packed up the army and left UA alone? Nope, because it’s all Russian bullshit Nope. But anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could have predicted the eventual invasion in ukraine. Doubly so when they lost control of it and Ukraine started to court NATO. Not saying it's right it just is what it is. The only reason countries join NATO is out of fear of Russia aggression. For well founded reason. I think every EE country now that was under Soviet oppression is now either in NATO or desperately wants in. Russia was going to invade UKRAINE especially because it was NOT in NATO. It would s Russian make believe bañar rayo e That “NATO made us rape and pillage, Murder and kidnap and raze cuties to rubble”. Or was it to save Christianity? They keep adding to the excuses. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:16:55 AM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:17:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Friendly years? Facts? You, making an incorrect statement does not make it a fact. Trump did exactly what he said he would and Wagner got decimated in Syria. Russia hit the pause button until Trump was gone. Trump wasn't in office in 2014. During the Trump years Russia didn't accomplish a thing. The Afghanistan nightmare is what led Russia to believe the full invasion would not be challenged; not Trump. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Putin used the friendly years Russia had with the USA while Trump was in office, he used those years to prepare for the invasion he had already had planned. Thats a fact. But Putin would have invaded Ukraine no matter what, even if he had to wait till trump served his 8 years. No matter what we would still be facing this same invasion now or later. Friendly years? Facts? You, making an incorrect statement does not make it a fact. Trump did exactly what he said he would and Wagner got decimated in Syria. Russia hit the pause button until Trump was gone. Trump wasn't in office in 2014. During the Trump years Russia didn't accomplish a thing. The Afghanistan nightmare is what led Russia to believe the full invasion would not be challenged; not Trump. Biden for the most part put into execution what Trump had planned to do. Had Trump been the one to execute it perhaps he would have responded better to the disaster that would have still resulted, but it's hard to say for sure. Trump vacillated between shows off strength and shows of weakness and did not have a consistent foreign policy. Given the isolationist sentiments being fed to successfully to the nationalist fools who are his base, I'm not sure he would have done much in response, and that could also have been a consideration for Putin. I seriously doubt Putin would have refrained from his campaign; at most the date would have changed a little. I think people are making Trump to be something as President that he was not. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:19:09 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Well at least they list the one factual point that Baker did make the statement. The rest of that analysis is mostly bullshit. The russians absolutely pressed the Brits on it, and then loudly complained later in the 90s. Here is another take a bit more rooted in reality. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Well at least they list the one factual point that Baker did make the statement. The rest of that analysis is mostly bullshit. The russians absolutely pressed the Brits on it, and then loudly complained later in the 90s. Here is another take a bit more rooted in reality. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today What a bunch of out dated BS. That was over East Germany in 1990 right after the Betín Wall was taken down. Many other captured Bloc countries were trying to break free as well. The dynamics were changing by the year. Since then Russia subverted, assassinated leaders and invaded several countries including Georgia long before they invaded Ukraine. They have broken EVERY treaty they have signed with the West. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:21:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: They 'fear' NATO because it interferes with their expansionist ideal. That's basically the heart of it |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:22:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: That's the rub, it was never a treaty. So as much as the russians were pissed off about it there was nothing they could do but bitch about how unfair it all was to them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By planemaker: If it wasn't put on paper, it wasn't an agreement. (Although, to be fair, even if it were put on paper, Russia would violate the terms anyway. It's what they do.) That's the rub, it was never a treaty. So as much as the russians were pissed off about it there was nothing they could do but bitch about how unfair it all was to them. After murdering tens of millions of their own people and conquered people, heinous torture and execution of dissidents, and stirring the shit in wars across the globe they have no credibility to bitch about anything. Who cares? They proved themselves barbarians a hundred times over. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:25:24 AM EDT
[#48]
Video source is "Two Majors", Russian TG.
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:27:33 AM EDT
[#49]
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USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 1:29:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: lol ok. So if Trump was not in office we would have retreated in the face of the wagner assualt in syria at that time? Or you just think the only reason they got slaughtered because trump was President? Wonder why Putin even allowed that assualt to happen at that time?Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Glock63: Originally Posted By AROKIE: I realize alot of people keep repeating that, but its just not accurate. Putin had this invasion planned well before 2014, taking Crimea was the first step. They have even stated that it was planned before then. Nothing, not even trump could have stopped Putin from crossing the border. Putin is not scared of trump. He actually sees him as an asset. Since putin's wagner boys were slaughtered in Syria while trump was in office, your theory that putin views him as an asset is laughable. lol ok. So if Trump was not in office we would have retreated in the face of the wagner assualt in syria at that time? Or you just think the only reason they got slaughtered because trump was President? Wonder why Putin even allowed that assualt to happen at that time?It was a shit test using a (then) deniable asset. Putin probably expected them to run like they would have been ordered to by Barry. With that said. I honestly wonder if Trump gave the order at all, or if Mattis gave the order on his own and presented him with a fait accompli. |
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