User Panel
Originally Posted By Blue_Devil_JD: Yah, okay. Like China gives a shit. They want Western money. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Blue_Devil_JD: Originally Posted By ludder093:
Yah, okay. Like China gives a shit. They want Western money. China is going to do what benefits China *period* Russian Rubles for pennies - they love it. Russian oil sold cheap - they love it. Strangle hold on US economy - they love it. Etc etc etc China will win big from this by just sitting and smiling. |
|
"In memory of Hard Corps One-Six"
Garry Owen |
|
|
|
Originally Posted By Haub: I love it lol...
Slava Ukraini, Heroyam Slava View Quote Love it. |
|
|
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By Bassgasm: Originally Posted By BlueSetter: Originally Posted By Bassgasm: Yep. One of the harder truths is that civilian casualties are part of war. Escalating this war means MORE civilian casualties, not less. There is no "something" we can do "to stop the killing of civilians immediately." Ukraine is in a bad spot, but they're doing very well for a nation with no allies that's been invaded by a much larger nation. Russia has inflicted a lot of damage and pain on Ukraine, but Ukraine has Russia bleeding out. I don’t think US forces should join the fight, I think EU should. The western world absolutely has the capability to stop the mass killing of civilians immediately. Those convoys could be destroyed immediately. Missile defense could intercept launches from outside immediately. All remaining assets Russia has staged could be rendered useless immediately. If the nuke threat is a deterrent, we might as well roll over and watch Putin March on because it will forever be a threat. You cannot decouple the US from the EU. EU = NATO = US. We're hitched to that wagon whether or not we want to be. Russia hasn't attacked NATO for the same reason NATO hasn't attacked Russia. Unless Putin is truly overdue for a trip to the loony bin or unless he decides he wants to go out in a hail of ICBMs (and nobody stops him), that's not going to change. https://i.imgflip.com/67gwkm.jpg Nowhere have I stated anything close to that. Proxy wars are how powers fight each other in the nuclear age. That's how the world works now. Just because I understand the very basic concept that directly attacking a nuclear power is a bad idea doesn't mean I don't believe we shouldn't help bleed the MFs dry in the war they started. And that's what's happening. |
|
"I haven't met one burnt end or rib that I haven't liked." -Andy Reid
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe |
Originally Posted By mancow: Originally Posted By FredTheLurker: Originally Posted By FrankyRay: Okay, I'll be the one to ask... What is that painting of? The text they are composing in the painting: The Cossacks' reply came as a stream of insulting and vulgar rhymes: Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan! O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are thou, that canst not slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil shits, and your army eats. Thou shalt not, thou son of a whore, make subjects of Christian sons. We have no fear of your army; by land and by sea we will battle with thee. Fuck thy mother. Thou Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow. Screw thine own mother! So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord. The day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse! Koshovyi otaman Ivan Sirko, with the whole Zaporozhian Host Day 0 copypasta! |
|
How come every time there is a shooting, they want to take away the guns from the people who didn't do it?
|
Originally Posted By stone-age: No disagreement it is a disaster for russian forces. But I think russian leaders simply don't care how much of the military resources(soldiers) are used up so long as they eventually win. Hopefully, the sanctions and collapsing economy will add to the pain. I expect we are nowhere near a situation where putin figures he has to back down, and I imagine he is planing for a very long war. Ukraine needs to find a way to hit those supply convoys. View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: It's a total failure of leadership on the Ukraine government's part. They've had years to prepare tank barriers and improve their defenses. Lot of corruption and inefficiencies in the Ukraine, but I suppose you could say that about the USA as well. I'm not saying that our leaders are competent or any brighter. Certainly things though the Ukraine people should make enquiries about after this over. Right now the nationalism is so high their government has high support, but when the dust settles cooler heads to should see how many mistakes were made by Ukraine's government leading up to this conflict. View Quote |
|
|
Coyote with 40 people crammed into a minivan gets into a chase with DPS, Paco over estimates his driving abilities and *whmmo!* the Astrovan of Immigration becomes a Pinata of Pain, hurling broken bodies like so many tasty pieces of cheap candy...
|
Originally Posted By Tboy: I would have agreed a week ago but Ukraine leaders have proven that they have the backbone. Also, Ukrainians are peaceful people but when you start killing fellow Ukrainians, they tend to get pissed off and hold a grudge. They lack the concept of "best defense is good offense" based on conversations and observations that I've had but I think attacking Kiev might have been the needed push to rally most of the country into action. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By happycynic: Take the deal. Use worldwide sympathy to rebuild Ukraine with foreign funds. Continue economic ties with west. Russia is only going to get more backwards as long as Putin and the Oligarchs are in charge. In twenty years Ukraine may be legitimately more powerful economically than Russia. I would have agreed a week ago but Ukraine leaders have proven that they have the backbone. Also, Ukrainians are peaceful people but when you start killing fellow Ukrainians, they tend to get pissed off and hold a grudge. They lack the concept of "best defense is good offense" based on conversations and observations that I've had but I think attacking Kiev might have been the needed push to rally most of the country into action. Tboy, Holy shit...glad to see you posting !!! Being the eternal optimist, when you guys get done kicking the shit out of Russia I'll make Ukraine the first stop on my retirement travels. I'll make sure to have lots of cash to help out. Keep your head down, stay safe and remember that there is a massive advantage to fighting an asymmetrical fight versus going toe to toe against heavy forces.... Stay safe !!!! |
|
|
Originally Posted By Bassgasm: Material losses were as follows: 451 aircraft (includes 333 helicopters) 147 tanks 1,314 IFV/APCs 433 artillery guns and mortars 11,369 cargo and fuel tanker trucks. We're 9 days in, and the Russians are already quickly approaching or blowing right past a bunch of those numbers. The Soviet-Afghan War made the USSR hurt when the USSR was strong. The consequences of this Ukrainian invasion will hit much harder, and Russia wasn't nearly as strong to begin with. View Quote The cost of Afghanistan was the cost of logistically supporting troops that long. Combat losses and munitions use are not really an immediate cost. It's all sunk cost paid for long long ago until and unless you replace it. The current actual combat costs them fuel which to them is cheap, and food, and whatever extra pay soldiers earn. The cost of their financial losses is the real cost. |
|
|
Originally Posted By elcope: Wow, maps, I never would have thought of that. Now, explain to me the significance of those distinctions WRT a political customs union and a defense treaty organization? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By elcope: Originally Posted By Bassgasm: Here is a map of the EU: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nCqPd1zanuk/X4Om8E10_-I/AAAAAAAADNs/4kvAqcMhek8QhxA5Pwcgf4_arnDYYqotgCLcBGAsYHQ/s0/map-of-european-union-countries-2020-post-brexit.png Now here's NATO: https://preview.redd.it/25wromq91ks61.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=26ae14f2a41310aff8c1505c7a2804af7f4d74c9 The EU and NATO might be two different organizations, but the only EU nations worth mentioning that are not also NATO nations are Finland and Sweden. The distinction between the EU and NATO is unlikely to ever show itself in a real world military scenario. Wow, maps, I never would have thought of that. Now, explain to me the significance of those distinctions WRT a political customs union and a defense treaty organization? It's two different clubs with largely the same membership base. Just because the members talk about different things at the different clubhouses doesn't outweigh the fact that it's the mostly same people. There are essentially zero scenarios where "the EU" goes to war without NATO going to that same war. Who gets involved how and on what day might change depending upon how the cookie crumbles, but the end result is the same: all of NATO (to include the US) goes to war. |
|
"I haven't met one burnt end or rib that I haven't liked." -Andy Reid
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe |
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNAaIljWQAgjOys?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNB2MIPXEAo2fJb?format=jpg&name=900x900 View Quote |
|
nothing of value here
|
|
|
God Bless Edward Snowden.
God Bless Ammon Bundy. quod est necessarium est licitum Interim call sign: Tiffany |
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
View Quote Lol But the opposing armies are smaller also. Maybe this is why Putin is about to call up 87% of his male population Or whatever |
|
|
Originally Posted By aswrg7: Google translate: Assessment of Russia's prospects by an FSB analyst March 04, 2022 “I’ll be honest right away: I hardly slept all these days, almost all the time at work, my head is slightly floating, as if in a fog. And from overwork, sometimes I already catch states, as if all this is not real. To be honest, the Pandora's box is open - a real global horror will begin by the summer - global famine is inevitable (Russia and Ukraine were the main suppliers of grain in the world, this year's harvest will be smaller, and logistical problems will bring the catastrophe to a peak point). I can't tell you what guided those at the top when deciding on the operation, but now they are methodically lowering all the dogs on us (the Service). We are scolded for analytics - this is very in my profile, so I will explain what is wrong. Recently, we have been increasingly pressed to customize reports to the requirements of management - I once touched on this topic. All these political consultants, politicians and their retinue, influence teams - all this created chaos. Strong. The most important thing is that no one knew that there would be such a war, they hid it from everyone. And here's an example for you: you are asked (conditionally) to calculate the possibility of human rights protection in different conditions, including the attack of prisons by meteorites. You specify about meteorites, they tell you - this is so, reinsurance for calculations, nothing like this will happen. You understand that the report will be just for show, but you need to write in a victorious style so that there are no questions, they say, why do you have so many problems, did you really work badly. In general, a report is being written that when a meteorite falls, we have everything to eliminate the consequences, we are great, everything is fine. And you concentrate on tasks that are real - we don’t have enough strength anyway.And then suddenly they really throw meteorites and expect that everything will be according to your analytics, which was written from the bulldozer. That is why we have a total piz_ets - I don’t even want to pick another word. There is no protection from sanctions for the same reason: well, it’s quite possible that Nabiullina will be sewn up with negligence (rather, the switchmen from her team), but what are they to blame for? No one knew that there would be such a war, so no one prepared for such sanctions. This is the reverse side of secrecy: since no one was told, then who could calculate what no one told about? Kadyrov is going crazy. And the conflict almost started with us: perhaps even the Ukrainians threw in misinformation that it was we who handed over the routes of Kadyrov's special forces in the first days of the operation. They were covered there on the march in a terrible way, they had not yet begun to fight, but they were simply torn to pieces in some places. And off we go: it was the FSB that leaked the routes to the Ukrainians. I do not have such information, I will leave 1-2% for reliability (it cannot be ruled out at all either). Blitzkrieg failed. It is simply impossible to complete the task now: if Zelensky and the authorities were captured in the first 1-3 days, they seized all the key buildings in Kyiv, they gave them the order to surrender - yes, the resistance would subside to the minimum values. In theory. But what's next? Even with this ideal variant, there was an unsolvable problem: with whom to negotiate? If we demolish Zelensky, well, with whom should we sign agreements? If with Zelensky, then after we demolish it, these papers are worth nothing. Opposition Platform for Life refused to cooperate: Medvedchuk is a coward, he fled. There is a second leader there - Boyko, but he refuses to work with us - even his own people will not understand him. They wanted to return Tsarev, so even our pro-Russians turned against him.Return Yanukovych? But as? If we say that it is impossible to occupy, then any of our authorities will be killed there in 10 minutes, as we leave. Occupy? Where are we going to get so many people? Commandant's offices, military police, counterintelligence, security - even with minimal local resistance, we need 500 thousand or more people. Not counting the supply system. And there is a rule that by covering the poor quality of management with quantity, you only spoil everything. And this, I repeat, would be with the ideal option, which does not exist.we need 500 thousand or more people. Not counting the supply system. And there is a rule that by covering the poor quality of management with quantity, you only spoil everything. And this, I repeat, would be with the ideal option, which does not exist.we need 500 thousand or more people.Not counting the supply system. And there is a rule that by covering the poor quality of management with quantity, you only spoil everything. And this, I repeat, would be with the ideal option, which does not exist. What now? We cannot announce mobilization for two reasons: 1) Large-scale mobilization will undermine the situation inside the country: political, economic, social. 2) Our logistics are already overstretched today. We will drive a many times larger contingent, and what will we get? Ukraine is a hefty country in terms of territory. And now the level of hatred towards us is going through the roof. Our roads simply won't be able to handle such supply caravans - everything will come to a standstill. And we won't manage to pull it out - because it's chaos. And these two reasons fall out at the same time, although even one is enough to break everything off. Losses: I don't know how many there are. Nobody knows. The first two days there was still control, now no one knows what is going on there. You can lose large units in communication. They can be found, or they can dissolve due to being attacked. And there, even the commanders may not know how many of them are running around somewhere nearby, how many died, how many are in captivity. The number of deaths is definitely in the thousands. Maybe 10 thousand, maybe 5, or maybe only 2. Even at the headquarters they don’t know for sure. But it should be closer to 10. And now we don’t count the LDNR corps - they have their own accounting. Now, even if Zelensky is killed, captured, nothing will change. There is Chechnya in terms of hatred towards us. And now even those who were loyal to us are opposed. Because it was planned from above, because we were told that there would be no such option, unless we were attacked. Because they explained that it was necessary to create the most credible threat in order to peacefully agree on the right conditions. Because we were initially preparing protests within Ukraine against Zelensky. Excluding our direct entry. Intrusions, to put it simply. Further civilian losses will go exponentially - and resistance to us will also only increase. They already tried to enter the cities with infantry - out of twenty landing groups, only one had a conditional success. Remember the assault on Mosul - after all, this is the rule, so it was in all countries, nothing new. Keep under siege? According to the experience of military conflicts in the same Europe in recent decades (Serbia is the largest testing ground here), cities can be under siege for years, and even function. Humanitarian convoys from Europe there are a matter of time. We have a conditional deadline of June. Conditional - because in June we have no economy left, nothing remains. By and large, next week there will be a turning point in one of the sides, simply because the situation cannot be in such an overstrain. There are no analytics - it is impossible to calculate the chaos, here no one can say anything for sure. Act intuitively, and even on emotions - but this is not poker for you. Rates will rise, in the hope that suddenly some option will shoot through. The trouble is that we, too, can now miscalculate and lose everything in one move. By and large, the country has no way out. It’s just that there is no option for a possible victory, and defeat is everything, sailed at all. They 100% repeated the beginning of the last century, when they decided to kick weak Japan and get a quick victory, then it turned out that the army was in trouble. then they started the war to the bitter end, then they began to take the Bolsheviks for "re-education" into the army - after all, they were outcasts, uninteresting to anyone in the masses. And then, the Bolsheviks, who were not really known to anyone, picked up anti-war slogans and it started like this ... From the pros: we did everything so that even a hint of the mass sending of "penalty boxes" to the front line did not pass. Send convicts and "socially unreliable" political prisoners there (so that they don't mess with the water inside the country) - the morale of the army will simply go into the negative. And the enemy is motivated, terribly motivated. He knows how to fight, there are enough middle-level commanders there. There are weapons. They have support. We will simply set a precedent for human loss in the world. And that's it. What we are most afraid of: at the top, they act according to the rule of overlapping the old problem with a new problem. Largely for this reason, the Donbass of 2014 began - it was necessary to divert the attention of Westerners from the topic of the Russian spring in Crimea, so the Donbass crisis, it seems, should have drawn all the attention to itself and become the subject of bargaining. But there were even bigger problems. Then they decided to push Erdogan into 4 pipes of the South Stream and entered Syria - this is after Soleimani gave deliberately false inputs in order to solve his problems. As a result, it was not possible to close the issue with Crimea, there are also problems with the Donbass, the South Stream has shrunk to 2 pipes, and Syria has hung with another headache (if we go out, they will demolish Assad,which will make us look like idiots, but it’s also difficult and useless to sit). I don't know who came up with the "Ukrainian Blitzkrieg". If we were given real introductory information, we would at least indicate that the original plan is controversial, that we need to double-check a lot. A lot of things. Now we got into the shit somewhere up to the neck. And it is not clear what to do. "Denazification" and "demilitarization" are not analytical categories, because they do not have clearly defined parameters by which one can determine the level of accomplishment or non-completion of the task. Now it remains to be seen that some fucking adviser will convince the top to start a conflict with Europe demanding to reduce some sanctions. Or reduce, or war. What if they refuse? Now I do not rule out that then we will be drawn into a real international conflict, like Hitler in 1939. And then our Z will be compared to us with a swastika. Is there a possibility of a local nuclear strike? Yes. Not for military purposes (it will not give anything - this is a defense breakthrough weapon), but with the aim of intimidating others. At the same time, the soil is being prepared to turn everything to Ukraine - Naryshkin and his SVR are now digging the earth to prove that they secretly created nuclear weapons there. Damn, they are now hammering on what we have long studied and dismantled: you can’t draw evidence here on your knee, and the presence of specialists and uranium (Ukraine has a lot of depleted isotope 23:cool: - this is about nothing. You can’t even do a “dirty” bomb quietly, but the fact that their old nuclear power plants can produce weapons-grade plutonium (REB-1000 type stations provide it in minimal quantities as a “by-product” Do you know what will happen next week? Well, even after two. Now it will cover us so much that we will start to miss the hungry 90s. While the auction was closed, Nabiullina seemed to be taking normal steps - but it's all like plugging a hole in a dam with a finger. It will still break through, and even stronger. Nothing will be decided in 3, 5, or 10 days. Kadyrov beats his hoof for a reason - they have their own adventures there. He created for himself the image of the most influential and invincible. And if it falls once, it will be taken down by its own people. He will no longer be the owner of the winning teip. We go further. Syria. "The guys will hold out, everything will be over in Ukraine - and there in Syria we will again strengthen everything in positions." And now, at any moment, they can wait there for the contingent to run out of resources - and such a heat will set in ... Turkey blocks the straits - to transport supplies there by planes, it's like heating an oven with money. Notice that all this is happening at the same time, we don’t even have time to bring everything into one heap. We have a situation, like in Germany in the 43-44th. At the start right away. Sometimes I am already lost from this overwork, sometimes it seems that everything was a dream and it was a dream, that everything is as before. In prisons, by the way, it will be worse. Now the nuts will begin to tighten so that to the bloody ichor. Everywhere. To be honest, purely technically, this remains the only chance to keep the situation - we are already in the mode of total mobilization. But you can’t stay in such a regime for a long time, and we have ambiguity with the timing and it will only get worse for now. From mobilization, management always goes astray. Yes, and imagine: you can run a hundred meters in a snatch, but it’s bad to go to a marathon distance and give a jerk with all your might. Here we rushed with the Ukrainian question, as if we were running a hundred meters, and fit into a cross-country marathon. And that's what I'm talking about very, very briefly. From the cynical, I will only add that I do not believe that VV Putin will press the red button to destroy the whole world. Firstly, there is more than one person making a decision, at least someone will jump off. And there are a lot of people there - there is no "one-man red button". Secondly, there are some doubts that everything is functioning successfully there. Experience shows that the greater the transparency and control, the easier it is to identify shortcomings. And where it is not clear who controls and how, but always bravura reports - everything is always wrong there. I'm not sure if the red button system works as advertised. In addition, the plutonium charge must be changed every 10 years. Thirdly, and this is the most vile and sad thing, I personally do not believe in the readiness to sacrifice oneself of a person who does not let the members of the Federation Council, but his closest representatives and ministers, come close to him. For fear of the coronavirus or an attack, it doesn't matter. If you are afraid to let the most trusted people near you, then how will you dare to destroy yourself and your loved ones, inclusive? If anything - ask, but I can not answer for several days. We are in rush mode, and there are more and more tasks. In general, our reports are peppy, but everything flies in the pi_du. View Quote interesting read. sounds like even the nukes are fubar |
|
|
Originally Posted By Chokey:
View Quote Prayers and good wishes |
|
|
Originally Posted By Bassgasm: You cannot decouple the US from the EU. EU = NATO = US. We're hitched to that wagon whether or not we want to be. Russia hasn't attacked NATO for the same reason NATO hasn't attacked Russia. Unless Putin is truly overdue for a trip to the loony bin or unless he decides he wants to go out in a hail of ICBMs (and nobody stops him), that's not going to change. View Quote We are only obligated under nato if russia attacks a nato country. If a nato country attacks russia we are not obligated. |
|
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson
|
|
Originally Posted By H4ppyB34r: You laugh, but when Holosun 510s sitting on the shelf are your choice between irons or an NV capable red dot that doesn't trigger ITAR... it's a bit more flexible, especially on a short time schedule View Quote using irony to make a point, but can't say I'm really laughing. few seem to understand the amount of skin China has in this game. some are purposefully avoiding to acknowledge it and pretending China is not a major factor in the equation |
|
|
|
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Has the US declared war on Russia and I missed it? Has Congress passed an act restricting trade with Russia? (I honestly don't know what's in the recent Congressional actions.) Even short of war, Congress has constitutional authority to restrict trade. But no, companies shouldn't do it on their own. Is that too nuanced? Actually, I would think that public accommodation laws prevent companies from arbitrarily banning commerce with certain customers or classes of customers (bake that cake!), unless Congress steps in with something else. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By mokerr: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: For clarity - a private company taking action against private citizens or other private companies in service to the political goals of a government is fascism. duurrrrr, their company, their rules. Not when they're wading into the field of politics. So Standard Oil should have just kept on selling oil to the Emperor, eh? Has the US declared war on Russia and I missed it? Has Congress passed an act restricting trade with Russia? (I honestly don't know what's in the recent Congressional actions.) Even short of war, Congress has constitutional authority to restrict trade. But no, companies shouldn't do it on their own. Is that too nuanced? Actually, I would think that public accommodation laws prevent companies from arbitrarily banning commerce with certain customers or classes of customers (bake that cake!), unless Congress steps in with something else. Neither does congress. It's not like they read the bills. |
|
|
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Lol But the opposing armies are smaller also. Maybe this is why Putin is about to call up 87% of his male population Or whatever View Quote Poland attacked tanks with horses... Poland has an professional army that makes Ukraine look bad. Poland would wreck Russia's shit. |
|
|
Originally Posted By BlueSetter: They’ve not been given any other option but to surrender. Of course they’re fighting at all costs for what is theirs. If they weren’t willing to fight, I’d never suggest anyone else should. EU absolutely created the circumstances that lead to this invasion. They absolutely should intervene with force. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BlueSetter: Originally Posted By binthere: Valid point, however, you are now addressing the question of Ukraine’s national will to fight. What losses are they willing to accept? That question is for Ukraine to answer. So far, it would seem that they are willing to go as far as is necessary to defeat Russia’s invasion. They’ve not been given any other option but to surrender. Of course they’re fighting at all costs for what is theirs. If they weren’t willing to fight, I’d never suggest anyone else should. EU absolutely created the circumstances that lead to this invasion. They absolutely should intervene with force. There seems to be no real option but to fight. Russia has openly talked about "Cleansing" the Ukrainian population. The older Ukrainians are very aware of what that means and from some past posts here it looks like the older Ukrainians are the ones most willing to fight. |
|
Bad things happen in isolated instances in an armed populace, horrific things happen to a disarmed populace. 20th Century Democide https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
|
Originally Posted By Bassgasm: Let's dig deeper into the Soviet's Afghanistan adventure for more context: From wiki... Between 25 December 1979, and 15 February 1989, a total of 620,000 soldiers served with the forces in Afghanistan (though there were only 80,000–104,000 serving at one time) The total irrecoverable personnel losses of the Soviet Armed Forces, frontier, and internal security troops came to 14,453. Soviet Army formations, units, and HQ elements lost 13,833, KGB sub-units lost 572, MVD formations lost 28, and other ministries and departments lost 20 men. During this period 312 servicemen were missing in action or taken prisoner; 119 were later freed, of whom 97 returned to the USSR and 22 went to other countries. Material losses were as follows: 451 aircraft (includes 333 helicopters) 147 tanks 1,314 IFV/APCs 433 artillery guns and mortars 11,369 cargo and fuel tanker trucks. We're 9 days in, and the Russians are already quickly approaching or blowing right past a bunch of those numbers. The Soviet-Afghan War made the USSR hurt when the USSR was strong. The consequences of this Ukrainian invasion will hit much harder, and Russia wasn't nearly as strong to begin with. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Bassgasm: Originally Posted By martin248: Originally Posted By Walleyeguy24: Originally Posted By martin248: This site is certainly an UNDER estimate, but it's a tally of the confirmed losses, including only things with photographic proof: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1 It's actually bad news for UKR, as while destroying 2-3 Russian vehicles for every 1 they lose is excellent performance, Russia's numerical advantage is larger than that. But as this has shown out, you don't need tanks and vehicles to DEFEND, you do need them to invade and help move men and gear. At this rate, they are going to be sending in drafted 12 year olds with a compass and slingshot. If Ukraine can continue to do hit and runs with javelins, stingers, drones, etc, it really is a war of attrition. Russia very well may run so low on equipment that is operable that they actually lose this thing. We don't know the actual on the ground numbers of what each side has, and can get. I'm sure US and NATO does at this point. If Ukraine can hold out much longer it is going to be devastating even further to the Russians. Now it is a question of how willing is Russia to move onto full destroy everything more. They are already in quagmire mode. Even if they "win" the random civilian hits on Russian troops will go on forever. But Ukraine has to make a choice. What deal are they willing to take to stop this madness. Don't underestimate Putin's willingness to let Russians die for the benefit of his own ego. Russia bled for ten years in Afghanistan before the US did, suffering daily losses. He's not going to be deterred by poor people's conscripted kids being picked off by insurgents. The best chance is that this becomes so costly somebody he knows puts a bullet in his head, otherwise I don't think it ends. Let's dig deeper into the Soviet's Afghanistan adventure for more context: From wiki... Between 25 December 1979, and 15 February 1989, a total of 620,000 soldiers served with the forces in Afghanistan (though there were only 80,000–104,000 serving at one time) The total irrecoverable personnel losses of the Soviet Armed Forces, frontier, and internal security troops came to 14,453. Soviet Army formations, units, and HQ elements lost 13,833, KGB sub-units lost 572, MVD formations lost 28, and other ministries and departments lost 20 men. During this period 312 servicemen were missing in action or taken prisoner; 119 were later freed, of whom 97 returned to the USSR and 22 went to other countries. Material losses were as follows: 451 aircraft (includes 333 helicopters) 147 tanks 1,314 IFV/APCs 433 artillery guns and mortars 11,369 cargo and fuel tanker trucks. We're 9 days in, and the Russians are already quickly approaching or blowing right past a bunch of those numbers. The Soviet-Afghan War made the USSR hurt when the USSR was strong. The consequences of this Ukrainian invasion will hit much harder, and Russia wasn't nearly as strong to begin with. Yep, and that was during a time the there was total control of all information behind the Iron Curtain. Russians today have lived a Western style life for 25+ years with internet, TV, social media, iPhones, and an open western style society. The public won't put up with much, as was the norm during the Soviet ages. Take away a country's iPhones, Xbox Online, and Twitter, they will lose their shit real quick. |
|
|
|
|
God Bless Edward Snowden.
God Bless Ammon Bundy. quod est necessarium est licitum Interim call sign: Tiffany |
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Lol But the opposing armies are smaller also. Maybe this is why Putin is about to call up 87% of his male population Or whatever View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Lol But the opposing armies are smaller also. Maybe this is why Putin is about to call up 87% of his male population Or whatever Ok, how many soldiers did Germany have in uniform when Hitler annexed Austria? Because that is the analogous event |
|
|
|
How long until russia(Putin)false flag an arrack on Russian civilians…airliner or shelling a Russian village
|
|
|
Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: It's a total failure of leadership on the Ukraine government's part. They've had years to prepare tank barriers and improve their defenses. Lot of corruption and inefficiencies in the Ukraine, but I suppose you could say that about the USA as well. I'm not saying that our leaders are competent or any brighter. Certainly things though the Ukraine people should make enquiries about after this over. Right now the nationalism is so high their government has high support, but when the dust settles cooler heads to should see how many mistakes were made by Ukraine's government leading up to this conflict. View Quote |
|
|
Everyone thinks that if Putin is gone things will be better. How's that worked out for us in the past? Largest nuclear power in the world with possibly no leadership or possibly a stronger leader, that's a big gamble.
|
|
|
God Bless Edward Snowden.
God Bless Ammon Bundy. quod est necessarium est licitum Interim call sign: Tiffany |
Originally Posted By Chokey: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNCWdN1WYAU9Qgi?format=jpg&name=medium View Quote Now to the person that I was debating tire vs axle failures with... Those are tire failures. From the auto-inflation system. |
|
Direction, not intention, determines destination.
Integrity is the essence of everything successful. |
Originally Posted By Jozsi: I will tell you this much... from the amount of refugees in Hungary that are Ukrainian.. I am seeing a good majority are just women and children. Hardly any men except old ones. View Quote I saw quite a few military age guys driving cars from Hungary into Italy these past few days. The vast majority of cars being driven are by men so I'm not sure how they're getting across (they're pulling them off trains here when entering Poland). I did see one guy driving back alone into UA. On a side note, Budapest parking cops must be EVERYWHERE and hide in the bushes. I got two parking tickets the first day I was there but didn't have issues crossing back into UA. Hope I didn't get any speeding tickets! And if so, I hope UA doesn't share LP information!!! |
|
|
Originally Posted By Tboy: No offense, but I think it is a waste of time to fly a foreigner to a country to deliver medical supplies when there are locals on the ground that are accepted and known. Does EESMITH have a network in place? Also there are other issues at play here. Right now I think they are having issues with too many foreigners that are coming in, not knowing what they are doing, clogging up the very limited supply chain and logistics network (at least from what I'm hearing from a contact with the local guy running this operation in our area). I live here and know many locals who are now reaching out to more locals in the hard hit areas so they know where to send the aid. I just don't think this is going to be a quick trip but a long process. I wish I wasn't out of contact these last few days before I had the opportunity to get a local network together to effect a sustainable relief effort. Expats & visitors are two completely different groups and mindset. View Quote certainly don't take offense all I did was pitch in a couple bucks and let you know. I believe she is working with a member of the press and I don't know of the network. this is the sticker thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/STRIKER-APROVED-Fundraiser-for-Ukrainian-help-Stickers-and-Patches-Now-with-more-POLE/5-2534739/ this is ees thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Operation-Wheatfox-EESmith-hand-carries-Med-Gear-to-Ukraine-Striker-approved-fundraiser-MET/5-2534806/ |
|
|
Originally Posted By GlockZen:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNAaIljWQAgjOys?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNB2MIPXEAo2fJb?format=jpg&name=900x900 View Quote jesus theyre renting u hauls to tote the shit in. I wish they'd stop advertising the vehciles |
|
|
Originally Posted By BigReb: We are only obligated under nato if russia attacks a nato country. If a nato country attacks russia we are not obligated. View Quote It's kind of academic. If a NATO county attacks Russia then Putin will assume it's NATO as a whole moving against him and he will retaliate broadly against all of us. Unless the attack is a pretty limited one ofd thing that doesn't look like a full mobilization. Is it's a full scale attack on Russian forces with the combined arms of a NATO nation we will all be at war instantly. |
|
|
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
View Quote Yet they will still broadcast their propaganda here...... Blyat! |
|
|
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: From what it looks like on TV, 18-65 year old men are being told to stay and fight. View Quote Telling, doing, and enforcing are 3 separate things. Many men apparently fled to Lviv this weekend and became obnoxious drunks which pissed off the locals. I just had a local guy (fighting age) asked me to drive him and his wife across the Hungarian border. I refused. |
|
|
Originally Posted By The_Steward: Man I hope so but those numbers are hard to believe. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By The_Steward: Originally Posted By ludder093:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM_PJacXoAE7Fxq?format=jpg&name=small Man I hope so but those numbers are hard to believe. Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding: I don't care much for propaganda, Minister. If we're right, they'll quit. If we're wrong they will be in London in a week. |
|
Bad things happen in isolated instances in an armed populace, horrific things happen to a disarmed populace. 20th Century Democide https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
|
Originally Posted By rgkeller: No signs that Zelensky is a crook. If the Ukraine survives more or less intact, he will have the support of the people to whatever he needs to do. View Quote He's probably a crook, but that's a Ukrainian problem to solve, not a Russian problem. Self determination means having the right to take care of your own crooked leaders. |
|
|
God's grace is not cheap; it's free.
|
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
View Quote could that fucking country get any more cowardly? |
|
|
|
|
God Bless Edward Snowden.
God Bless Ammon Bundy. quod est necessarium est licitum Interim call sign: Tiffany |
Maniac has responded with a scornful remark
USA
|
Originally Posted By Tboy: Telling, doing, and enforcing are 3 separate things. Many men apparently fled to Lviv this weekend and became obnoxious drunks which pissed off the locals. I just had a local guy (fighting age) asked me to drive him and his wife across the Hungarian border. I refused. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: From what it looks like on TV, 18-65 year old men are being told to stay and fight. Telling, doing, and enforcing are 3 separate things. Many men apparently fled to Lviv this weekend and became obnoxious drunks which pissed off the locals. I just had a local guy (fighting age) asked me to drive him and his wife across the Hungarian border. I refused. I'll believe that. It's a large border and government agencies are a little distracted. The videos we see are mostly from high-traffic areas like train stations. |
|
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Either this or 20 years in prison, you choose View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By outofbattery: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56204/015D22F8-5C45-44FD-8486-BA1499CBDDB6_jpe-2300934.JPG Funnily enough, plenty in the USA will say the same about those from, say Texas, for free. |
|
|
Maniac has responded with a scornful remark
USA
|
Originally Posted By martin248: He's probably a crook, but that's a Ukrainian problem to solve, not a Russian problem. Self determination means having the right to take care of your own crooked leaders. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By martin248: Originally Posted By rgkeller: No signs that Zelensky is a crook. If the Ukraine survives more or less intact, he will have the support of the people to whatever he needs to do. He's probably a crook, but that's a Ukrainian problem to solve, not a Russian problem. Self determination means having the right to take care of your own crooked leaders. Their start of an entry into the EU means that over the next few years they will have to enact anti-corruption policies along with other changes. |
|
It took a day longer than I thought for the "One channel on the TV" thing.
Any news of "Changes in Leadership" of the army, banks or shipping companies? |
|
|
Originally Posted By BigReb: We are only obligated under nato if russia attacks a nato country. If a nato country attacks russia we are not obligated. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BigReb: Originally Posted By Bassgasm: You cannot decouple the US from the EU. EU = NATO = US. We're hitched to that wagon whether or not we want to be. Russia hasn't attacked NATO for the same reason NATO hasn't attacked Russia. Unless Putin is truly overdue for a trip to the loony bin or unless he decides he wants to go out in a hail of ICBMs (and nobody stops him), that's not going to change. We are only obligated under nato if russia attacks a nato country. If a nato country attacks russia we are not obligated. The semantics matter until they don't, especially if we're talking about "the EU" as opposed to a random NATO country acting as an individual. If Turkey decides to attack someone, we might not get their backs. If "the EU" goes to war... we're going too. |
|
"I haven't met one burnt end or rib that I haven't liked." -Andy Reid
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe |
Maniac has responded with a scornful remark
USA
|
Originally Posted By cryo_tech: could that fucking country get any more cowardly? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cryo_tech: Originally Posted By hondaciv:
could that fucking country get any more cowardly? Russia just enacted a law with a 15 year sentence for spreading non-approved information about military operations. In this case it seems reasonable. |
|
Originally Posted By rgkeller: No signs that Zelensky is a crook. If the Ukraine survives more or less intact, he will have the support of the people to whatever he needs to do. View Quote If he survives this he's going to be a global rockstar. Gives well thought out, convincing interviews while in the field and in two or three languages. |
|
YNWA
Show Me Yo Shanks http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1852554_A_GD_Knife_Thread____EDC__Rotation__yes__carry_rotations_are_a_real_thing__or_Edged_Erotica__.html |
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.