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Posted: 3/6/2022 12:59:52 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SheltiePimp: Got hit by 7 cruise missiles, that's a lot. Why so important? Resupply for Ukraine, and strip for combat aircraft. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:00:31 PM EST
[#2]
BTW, for you logisticians out there, Rubio absolutely knows more than nearly anyone else. Whether his hints and tweets and whatever about this sort of ongoing thing are actually in reasonable alignment with the truthful reality extant he almost certainly knows more about than nearly everyone else is a question in an entirely different logical category.
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:01:09 PM EST
[#3]
As awesome as the Mig29s are if they actually get into Ukraine, I don't think it is the game changer that some think it will be. There is anti aircraft shit EVERYWHERE there now for both sides. Them pilots will be on suicide missions. If those Migs are operated any different than the models Ukraine flies (I think they are), I hope those remaining Ukrainian pilots were already training in Poland during this delay. I hope they can make a couple of runs and take out the highest value targets they can find. I just don't see how they will be able to survive long considering the amount of Russian SAM sites peppered all over, and the amount of friendly fire they are going to encounter.
It's also going to be hard to find somewhere to base them, fuel them, maintenance them, and rearm them. Many more drones would be more beneficial in my opinion. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:02:39 PM EST
[#4]
My understanding is Ukraine wants Mig-29’s because they’re already trained on them. Besides Poland, what other NATO countries have operational Mig-29’s and are pro-Ukraine?
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:02:42 PM EST
[#5]
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:03:22 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: The biggest takeaway is that they plan to fight for 4 months. Can Ukraine? The bigger takeaway is, they planned on being done in 3 days. What makes you think they can sustain for 4 months? I don't see 6 weeks. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:03:39 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: As awesome as the Mig29s are if they actually get into Ukraine, I don't think it is the game changer that some think it will be. There is anti aircraft shit EVERYWHERE there now for both sides. Them pilots will be on suicide missions. If those Migs are operated any different than the models Ukraine flies (I think they are), I hope those remaining Ukrainian pilots were already training in Poland during this delay. I hope they can make a couple of runs and take out the highest value targets they can find. I just don't see how they will be able to survive long considering the amount of Russian SAM sites peppered all over, and the amount of friendly fire they are going to encounter. It's also going to be hard to find somewhere to base them, fuel them, maintenance them, and rearm them. Many more drones would be more beneficial in my opinion. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:04:17 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: The bigger takeaway is, they planned on being done in 3 days. What makes you think they can sustain for 4 months? I don't see 6 weeks. reserves and communist / russian battle doctrine. If they can cut off Kiev and east, it's over. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:05:02 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: As awesome as the Mig29s are if they actually get into Ukraine, I don't think it is the game changer that some think it will be. There is anti aircraft shit EVERYWHERE there now for both sides. Them pilots will be on suicide missions. If those Migs are operated any different than the models Ukraine flies (I think they are), I hope those remaining Ukrainian pilots were already training in Poland during this delay. I hope they can make a couple of runs and take out the highest value targets they can find. I just don't see how they will be able to survive long considering the amount of Russian SAM sites peppered all over, and the amount of friendly fire they are going to encounter. It's also going to be hard to find somewhere to base them, fuel them, maintenance them, and rearm them. Many more drones would be more beneficial in my opinion. The Azerbaijanis put these Harop "suicide" drones to great effect in their war recently. These and the Harpy would be excellent counters to Russia's air defenses:  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:05:24 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: This. They will have to contend with the problem of finding airfields or roadways that haven't been bombed out by ballistic/cruise missiles on top of maintenance, fuel, armaments, etc. This is a nice public gesture, but Russians will just turn them into burning hulks if friendly fire doesn't first. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM: Originally Posted By M-1975: OH SHIT (if true)
This. They will have to contend with the problem of finding airfields or roadways that haven't been bombed out by ballistic/cruise missiles on top of maintenance, fuel, armaments, etc. This is a nice public gesture, but Russians will just turn them into burning hulks if friendly fire doesn't first. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:05:41 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rgkeller: What are good telegraph channels for the war? Here are a bunch, not all are pro-UKR, and some are pure propaganda rather than just the usual fare: https://t.me/OSINTUKRAINE https://t.me/RUSSIAUKRAINE_WW3 (lots of purse swinging in this one) https://t.me/dvish_alive https://t.me/u_now https://t.me/uniannet https://t.me/rf200_now https://t.me/MaksymZhorin https://t.me/ukr_leaks (ooh boy) https://t.me/Tsaplienko https://t.me/LastBP https://t.me/nkplus_ua https://t.me/UA_struggle https://t.me/a_shtirlitz https://t.me/milinfolive |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:06:13 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cryo_tech: reserves and communist / russian battle doctrine. If they can cut off Kiev and east, it's over. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:07:20 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thesilvercord:
Lol, fuck off. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:08:16 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BossMaverick: My understanding is Ukraine wants Mig-29’s because they’re already trained on them. Besides Poland, what other NATO countries have operational Mig-29’s and are pro-Ukraine? Trick bordering country of currently held land's ally to fly them into your advancing sam sites so the next enemy has less aircraft when you invade further into Europe - Sun Tzu |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:08:16 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Not really. Ukraine's population doesn't look anywhere near pacification right now. Even if Russia takes the cities they still have to stop an insurgency. you still need all those AT rockets and manpads |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:09:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: aeroworksxp]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Pray for Cossackgundi:
Yep. Mariupol.  Attached File Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:09:36 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigB32: How’s it any different if we give them stingers or fighter jets? It doesn't make much sense, especially considering MANPADs appear to be doing the most damage to Russian air assets. Ground attack aircraft to harass the Russian convoys would be a different story. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:09:46 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PurpleOtter: It's most likely someone misreporting the Polish to Ukrainian fighter transfer and not that NATO is going to take an active role. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PurpleOtter: Originally Posted By M-1975: OH SHIT (if true)
Some NATO countries were pressured by some other NATO countries not to provide combat aircraft. Hat pressure seems to have been removed. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:10:05 PM EST
[#19]
This refuge is currently on the train out of Kiev. Just live on Fox a few minutes ago. The only people who are going to profit from this war are China, and single men in Poland.
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:11:09 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: This refuge is currently on the train out of Kiev. Just live on Fox a few minutes ago. The only people who are going to profit from this war are China, and single men in Poland. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/415017/20220306_120329_jpg-2303549.JPG Those lips have seen things. 
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:11:38 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickmemphis: BTW, for you logisticians out there, Rubio absolutely knows more than nearly anyone else. Whether his hints and tweets and whatever about this sort of ongoing thing are actually in reasonable alignment with the truthful reality extant he almost certainly knows more about than nearly everyone else is a question in an entirely different logical category. Looks more like he tweets "breaking" stuff on Twitter that he finds. Or whatever. No doubt he knows more, but I haven't seen anything that shows he's sharing. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:12:26 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickmemphis: You know what would help lower the pressure of all the minor resentments I keep balled up inside like a knot? If no one would ever again from Rubio to some random dude on twitter would ever announce they're just about to announce something breathtaking and just announce the shit when it's announcing time for it, and until then, shut the fuck up. I'm not seven, getting excited about the cool stuff you're planning for my eighth B-day. This; "Oh some huge big time shit is about to happen soon, but I can't tell you just yet exactly what it is even though I know now!" has to be one of the single top three overused tropes of all time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickmemphis: Originally Posted By thesilvercord: You really going to tease us like that? You know what would help lower the pressure of all the minor resentments I keep balled up inside like a knot? If no one would ever again from Rubio to some random dude on twitter would ever announce they're just about to announce something breathtaking and just announce the shit when it's announcing time for it, and until then, shut the fuck up. I'm not seven, getting excited about the cool stuff you're planning for my eighth B-day. This; "Oh some huge big time shit is about to happen soon, but I can't tell you just yet exactly what it is even though I know now!" has to be one of the single top three overused tropes of all time. Although I don’t appear to be wound as tight as you do, I agree. 
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:13:46 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tuco22: Those lips have seen things. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tuco22: Originally Posted By Walleyeguy24: This refuge is currently on the train out of Kiev. Just live on Fox a few minutes ago. The only people who are going to profit from this war are China, and single men in Poland. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/415017/20220306_120329_jpg-2303549.JPG Those lips have seen things. Seriously. She looked amazing from many angles. I am guessing that lip injections aren't as common there as they would be in some place like LA, so those might actually be OEM. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:13:57 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Clockwork138: It doesn't make much sense, especially considering MANPADs appear to be doing the most damage to Russian air assets. Ground attack aircraft to harass the Russian convoys would be a different story. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:15:27 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: The bigger takeaway is, they planned on being done in 3 days. What makes you think they can sustain for 4 months? I don't see 6 weeks. Putting on for a draft of everyone 18-80, and railing a ton of old ass equipment to the frontline? Sounds like plans to keep things going for awhile |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:15:49 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Intune69: Damn, they got blown the fuck up. Russians even have bayonets on the ends of their artillery pieces! Does anyone know what those are sticking out by the muzzle brakes? FIGHT, Ukraine 🇺🇦  they are tow rings so the piece can be moved around by the muzzle I think. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:16:39 PM EST
[#27]
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:16:40 PM EST
[#28]
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:17:03 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: The Azerbaijanis put these Harop "suicide" drones to great effect in their war recently. These and the Harpy would be excellent counters to Russia's air defenses:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4xr98ae5w0Israel won’t sell weapons to Ukraine,there are too many Russian Jews in Israel and quite honestly too many Jewish oligarchs they don’t want Putin to kill. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/know-your-oligarch-a-guide-to-the-jewish-machers-in-the-russia-probe-1.6113189 It’s simply how it is,they’re more important than these fellows. It’s Realpolitik 🤷🏼♂️  Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:17:10 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thesilvercord:
Beat but damn. This is certainly a development. As soon as Blinken announced that Russia attacked western Ukrainian airbases with cruise missiles. But hey, the adults are in charge now 
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:17:13 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: OH SHIT (if true)
About fucking time, if true. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:17:29 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tuco22: Those lips have seen things. If she had stayed behind, those things could've sucked up any artillery barage the russians could lay down, yet she's on a train out of the country. 
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:17:31 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Just look at all the generals on Fox and other networks who were dead wrong about how this would play out. You get stars for sucking dick, and networks pay them to suck even more. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:18:29 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: Israel won't sell weapons to Ukraine,there are too many Russian Jews in Israel and quite honestly too many Jewish oligarchs they don't want Putin to kill. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/know-your-oligarch-a-guide-to-the-jewish-machers-in-the-russia-probe-1.6113189 It's simply how it is,they're more important than these fellows. It's Realpolitik https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56204/0E44C302-236C-4DF1-B634-860B99894F67_jpe-2303555.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: Originally Posted By Brok3n: The Azerbaijanis put these Harop "suicide" drones to great effect in their war recently. These and the Harpy would be excellent counters to Russia's air defenses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4xr98ae5w0Israel won't sell weapons to Ukraine,there are too many Russian Jews in Israel and quite honestly too many Jewish oligarchs they don't want Putin to kill. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/know-your-oligarch-a-guide-to-the-jewish-machers-in-the-russia-probe-1.6113189 It's simply how it is,they're more important than these fellows. It's Realpolitik https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56204/0E44C302-236C-4DF1-B634-860B99894F67_jpe-2303555.JPG |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:18:35 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheFaz: That's a dumb analogy and I've already addresses how it's been a common and effective tactic used previously to put pressure on a government to change policies. But to address your overly simplistic analogy, if the wife was encouraging the dad to beat her kid and supported his behavior, would you be ok with her suffering a little to encourage him to change? Seriously? No. I’d intervene to save the child from both. What kind of man wouldn’t. I Can’t believe you’d suggest that. Shame on you. The west absolutely has the capability to stop this now and spare the lives of innocent civilians. Not doing so is weak and inhumane. And cowardly. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:18:53 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Theodoric: MANPADS have a ceiling of between 10,000 and 15,000 feet, and they lose effectiveness the higher the plane is. Anything flying above that needs to either be targeted by air defenses that use non-man portable anti-aircraft missiles, aircraft or radar guided flak. We've seen captured SA-22s in Ukraine. They can't fly high enough to avoid those. IF they know where all the big guns are, that would change things. Poland should have smart munitions that will allow them to stay out of range if they know where everything is. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:19:08 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CZ75_9MM: They need more drones, Stingers and NLAWs and people that can use them. That seems to be working really well. The problem I see with Ukraine using manned aircraft is going to be friendly fire losses and Russians using AA on them. I wouldn't want to be in a plane in that sky at all on either side at the moment. just paint the entire aircraft in Ukraine colors. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:19:09 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thesilvercord:
Beat but damn. This is certainly a development. Didn't someone post here earlier today saying that somthing big would happen? |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:20:09 PM EST
[#39]
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:20:26 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I know Poland will, they have been haggling with us about their replacements. I'd give them F-35's or whatever they wanted if it was up to me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By cryo_tech: Originally Posted By M-1975: OH SHIT (if true)
He said it on a news interview on like NBC or something so yes. But WILL they? I know Poland will, they have been haggling with us about their replacements. I'd give them F-35's or whatever they wanted if it was up to me. Yup. Throw in a 12 pack of B52s too. We need to put a big assed base in Poland, a country that actually gives a shit. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:20:42 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pr24guy: I find this scene of this Russian Arty Battery interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlSYDdk0EFswe are seeing video's of massive large scale battles or demolitions. the bigger question is who is doing all that damage. UKR forces various NATO special forces Various NATO stealth warplanes Drones at this point, I dont know if the Russians have the air ID capability and it would be easy for certain stealth planes to wreak havok. all the above |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:21:02 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlueSetter: Did the sanctions imposed the last time work? Or the time before that? Why on earth would any reasonable person suggest sanctions that punish the world be imposed rather than address the problem directly. Russia’s military is killing civilians. Punish Russia’s military. Punishing Russia’s civilians is cowardly. If your neighbor was a known wife beater and you witnessed him beating his child too, would you kick his wife around to encourage her to save her kid? Or just whoop the dudes ass? That's a very narrow view of the situation... sanctions cause the people to look at their government critically and ask then if they are making good choices. If they are, great. If not, maybe the people will want a new government that isn't killing civilians and being the aggressor. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:21:05 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: The bigger takeaway is, they planned on being done in 3 days. What makes you think they can sustain for 4 months? I don't see 6 weeks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: The biggest takeaway is that they plan to fight for 4 months. Can Ukraine? The bigger takeaway is, they planned on being done in 3 days. What makes you think they can sustain for 4 months? I don't see 6 weeks. I thought that Russia was stockpiling blood before the invasion because they expected so many casualties. Which is it? This is like all the commentators saying that the Russian airforce isn't a threat, but also screaming for NATO to come with air defense. I'm seeing Tet Offensive-tier media manipulation on every aspect of this conflict, but the reality is that despite eight years of NATO money and training, NATO providing intelligence on Russian movements, and most likely NATO commanders serving as "advisors"...by day three of the invasion the Ukrainian president was talking about civilians throwing themselves at tanks. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:22:54 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Idk what is actually likely other than the sum of incompetence and corruption. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By nickmemphis: Wouldn't surprise me if he's mostly wandering around in a sort of vague fog, but that everyone around him that has their wagon hitched to his to keep their own beaks wet is on that, myself. Unless he's playing a Chin Gigante thing. Oscar performance level best actor of all time style. You think that's likely? Idk what is actually likely other than the sum of incompetence and corruption. I'm sure he was all about some, "You have to let me wet my beak!" and "Don't forget my vig!, 10%!" Don Corleone at the top of his game shit 20 years ago but I think that's way past for him now. What you are seeing is a whole swathe of nameless people who long ago got all career dependent on his wagon propping up the mule team leading the the drive to Abilene.. He ain't deciding shit himself, for real, They may be evil and devious, but no one would be stupid enough to actually ask a dude with obvious dementia like that to make a decision that mattered about anything serious. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:23:39 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: I don't disagree with you, but we in the West (as is in Conservative politics) have a tendency to play by Gentleman's Rules hoping the other side will do the same. This dogged determination to stay the course is foolish, but we'll continue to do so for the surprised Pikachu face we make at the end. Ukraine is like Ralphie, the EU his shocked buddies,  |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:23:55 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: That place got hammered to fuck Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By pr24guy: I find this scene of this Russian Arty Battery interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlSYDdk0EFsA battery is 6 guns. The camera dude didn't focus on them enough but it looks like there's 10-12 guns there. There's 18 guns in a battalion. There's a battalion attached to some motor rifle regiments and some tank regiments. What that could be is the majority, or the entirety if it was short, of artillery support for a regiment. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:24:36 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OKnativeson: we are seeing video's of massive large scale battles or demolitions. the bigger question is who is doing all that damage. UKR forces various NATO special forces Various NATO stealth warplanes Drones at this point, I dont know if the Russians have the air ID capability and it would be easy for certain stealth planes to wreak havok. all the above While I think they would have a hard time shooting down our stealthy shit, I am pretty sure they are able to see evidence of it being there. They are not completely invisible, and Russia probably has every spare assets scanning every inch of the sky |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:24:41 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: They have some good stuff but they aren't flying them much. Lack of SEAD I think is keeping the SU-35s grounded and the constant presence of E-3s is keeping the SU-57 benched. they aren't flying them much because they are inoperable status. |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:26:09 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Putting on for a draft of everyone 18-80, and railing a ton of old ass equipment to the frontline? Sounds like plans to keep things going for awhile Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By lorazepam: The bigger takeaway is, they planned on being done in 3 days. What makes you think they can sustain for 4 months? I don't see 6 weeks. Putting on for a draft of everyone 18-80, and railing a ton of old ass equipment to the frontline? Sounds like plans to keep things going for awhile What they plan to do, and what they can actually pull off are two very different things. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:26:43 PM EST
[#50]
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