Looks like TWD managed to pull a full point bump for the finale, putting up an 11.31 to end the season.

Seeing how the ratings have been flat in the mid tens for the whole second half of season 7 I think it is safe to assume 11's are most likely going to be the neighborhood of season 8's premiere. They don't have a major lead-in cliffhanger like they had from season 6 to 7, so by all accounts 8 is going to open soft... and unless they change up the rhythm more in season 8 I imagine the slow atrophy of ratings will continue. But my guess is AMC will keep TWD undeadly trudging along for several more seasons until it hits the mid/low single digits. The juggernaut is wobbling, but it is still the cable ratings leader... but a weak king can bring about strong challenges, we'll have to see what other networks will come up with next year to run against it as I think they smell blood in the water.

I'm also expecting Fear to come back soft with probably a 4 at best in June, then slide like a wet pickle into the 2's before its mid-season break. And with the main showrunner of Fear jumping ship to other projects I kind of hope AMC takes the opportunity to retire Fear after season 3. With luck they've already scripted in a good stopping point in season 3's finale.

The average idiot with a TV wouldn't be able to connect the dots and be left confused. 

You know what you're talking about here, so I'm not challenging you on this but don't you think that the setup of having the groups go on the offensive and the teaser of all out war with the Saviors isn't a pretty good lead-in?  Season 7 was a beatdown of Alexandria in many ways, and it's a shifting of the tide now, where the Alexandrites have seized the initiative.  I think something like that works to recharge the viewing audience after the letdown of season 7.

That had to be one of the worst battle scenes I've ever seen.  
The bad guys barely even bothered to shoot, just ran behind the good guys and waited for them to spin around and blast them.  Lots of rifles with no sights.  Lots of Garbage people with guns 1 foot from a good guys head, but not shooting.

Don't forget it was 90% shooting at people off screen.  

No, not really. There was nothing left "unanswered" or unsettled that would linger in a viewer's mind. The finale was very much like the finale of season 3, very flat in narrative tone despite the conflict and "war" dialog closure. The finale did not do a good "sell" to the wider viewing audience that next season will offer new and different experiences, it really only promises more of the same... more Negan, more Saviors and more "group on group" storylines. And if the ratings trajectory of TWD in season 7 show us anything, it shows us that the larger audiences the show previously enjoyed tired of this whole arc and slowly stopped watching, boiling the show's "regular base" down from the high 13's to the tens. And the promise of a second season of what on the surface seems to be "more of the same" will most likely not be to the show's betterment or ability to attract its former larger audience back.

You also have to look at historical TV trends. Very rarely does a scripted long in the tooth show going into an eighth season suddenly recover a massive uptick in ratings. If anything it is a gradual decline into cancellation.

Edit: TWD is also experiencing a lot of negative, or even hostile, critical press this season. It began with just the fringe clickbait sites but it slowly has expanded into some of the mainstream review and industry sites. So right out of the gate season 8 is facing an uphill battle with a once friendly critical press. And despite what folks may say, bad reviews do bleed views in the same way a hostile press influences popular opinion on politics and sports. Tell people a show is failing and they will believe you without watching it themselves.

I think they got so much crap for the head bashing scene that they tried to limit the violence and went way too far the other way. It was cartoonish.

Thanks, I enjoy reading your insight and critique of the show.  Nevertheless, I continue to be at least nominally entertained by TWD and FTWD, and I think I'll ride this bitch all the way to the ground.

Both shows are still better than nearly all TV. Is there a FTWD thread now?

I think I remember one, it'll probably be resurrected once FTWD comes back on.

What initiative did they seize? Negan knows what's up and is headed home to sound the horn while Rick and Co. are still in Alexandria and now have to account for a potential two front war with the junkyard kids. Any initiative they had evaporated when Negan's little birdie filled him in.

That said, I agree with you as far as the start of next season.  The table is set for next season to start off with immediate large scale hostilities between the various groups.  But then again, they write this series so stupidly at times that they could spend the first half of next season trying to rebuild more tension and try to save the big fight for next season's finale.

Do you have a crystal ball?

Season 8 finale: Kick shit and eat snakes.

Are you going to have more cameos next year Mike?

I used initiative more in the sense that they picked up momentum, at least in an emotional sense with the characters.  They were able to drive Negan off, force him to retreat for the first time.  We shall see what the writers come up with, hopefully it isn't paced as painfully slow as this season was. I think it's a fun show.  Flawed, but fun and entertaining, at least to some degree.  Big plot holes and nonsensical actions by the characters really don't bother me too much.  I just like to watch it for what it is.

They went to track her down to administer the coup-de-gras after the fight is how I interpreted it.

But yes, how could she have left the fight or not been killed by somone?  Bad writing.  There's no continuity with the treatment of the dead. They ignore stimulii when it's convenient for the script until it's time for the the writers to need them to respond to stimulii. Same thing with the scene a week or two back with Gregory and Maggie.  He and Maggie spot one walker 30 yards away and a minute later he has one on his back that no one saw coming and that was completely silent till it pounced. But that's what this show is now. The actual dead are nothing more than props to the writers.

The whole season was fucking terrible. The last episode was beyond terrible, into the realm of feeling like a parody of itself.

Seekins Precision took credit via an Instagram post for Darryl's AR.
Also I don't know why so many people watch the show if their only enjoyment they get from the show is complaining about it on the line.

Honestly, I don't see the big deal.  The show has had a gore factor that is over and above everything else on TV.  I blame that more on the emotional connection the viewers had to Glen and Abraham, therefore the gore was more unsettling.  Gory things have happened to all sorts of red-shirts throughout the history of the series.

In that regard I actually give the writers/directors/producers a pass.  If you're going to go with gore, go with gore for everyone.

For me, I just can't stand characters doing stupid stuff over and over again in obviously contrived efforts to manufacture drama.

At some point TWD has a choice to make. Either fold up and call it a day, or go full bore into being a soap opera.  Think about it.  How many times can Morgan, Rick or Carol have some moral conflict or breakdown before every viewer yawns and says "here we go again".

I think that's why the show is faltering.  It's now predictable and reliant upon cheap "gotcha" gimmicks and stale, unconvincing drama.  Did anyone not know that the poor man's Coral, Benjamin from the Kingdom, was a goner before he ever died?

Just watched it on my DVR, and it was better than I thought it would be.

Wasn't a bit surprised about the Junkyard Romulans. When I said that, that group reminded me of the Romulans from Star Trek a few pages back, I guess it was an apt analogy. Fuckers.

Other than that, the battle scene was goofy. But that's normal for TWD.

The tiger roaming around and kicking ass was pretty cool. Good kitty!

ETA: Anybody else notice a parallel that the writers are trying to instill to WWII? It seems like the scene towards the end with Ezekiel, Rick, and Maggie on that makeshift stage was an attempt to make them look like the Allies, thus making Negan and the Junkyard Romulans the Axis.

Possible time jump coming;

http://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/2017/04/05/the-walking-dead-two-year-time-jump-/

It talks about the comics so possible spoilers at link.

Kuuueearrrl

Attached File

I said early in this thread TWD needed to do a time job. They also need to kill of some of the core folks too. Listed those a page or so back

It would be awesome to save some of the budget from paying actors to actually producing good sets and good cgi.

Psychological advantage from making the enemy force tuck tail and run.  Numerical odds improved from causing significant casualties.  Logistical odds improved because casualties left behind equipment.  The little shit, such as watching your people get munched by a fucking trained tiger.

The junkyard kids didn't intend to get stuck in a war; their whole intent was to get some guns, and then execute a doublecross which would get them some slave labor on the cheap; if they're already short people, they sure as shit can't get involved in a shooting war against people now willing to fight to the death.  They also won't get welcomed as partners with the Saviors; Negan sure as shit won't let that duplicitous bitch stand behind him with a gun.  

That's the other thing; Team Rick has accepted that there's no turning back from open war with the Saviors.   Everyone now knows that surrender means a date with Lucille.  Attacking a fixed position is one thing when you have a combat power advantage and the defenders can be forced to surrender, nominate someone to pay the price, and go back to indentured servitude.  Taking a prepared position where the defenders are equal in numbers and weapons and willing to fight to the death is another matter.  So, I can see season 8 opening with Negan deciding to take the Kingdom by force.  His army is all fired up.  They're used to a quick skirmish and getting to watch Negan bash someone.  They haven't had to wipe out an armed group.  Sure, they'll do it, but they will take bad (and irreplaceable) causalities doing so; remember, the Kingdom didn't have everyone march to Alexandria.  When Negan attacks, everyone in the Kingdom will be armed.  Easily as many people there as Negan will have in his force.  Then, you get the drama of Negan's "Army" reacting to losing half their number squashing the Kingdom, doing the mental math of their odds of survival after taking Alexandria as approaching zero, and thinking Negan may not be the best game in town.


Granted, that depends on the writing.  They could just as easily have Rick march his entire force right into a herd of walkers.  That would be par with his performance so far.

I don't think The Kingdom knew the saviors were on the offensive yet. Ezekiel's "regiment" or whatever he called it, may have been intended more as a diplomatic mission than a fighting force. I don't think either the Kingdom or Hilltop are fully mobilized at his point.
Negan got inside Rick's OODA Loop by coming early and the defense of Alexandria was rushed ad hoc. Arguably, all 3 allied groups have more force to bring to bear, given a bit more time. That boobytrap that failed to detonate at the gates is still explosive so that might be repurposed.
I'm going to guess that Negan has a 'Secret Weapon' of some sort that he figures will be decisive. The Governor scrounged up a tank. Hell, when is there ever just 1 tank? There should be at least a few sitting around. Of course the tank was overcome by the pluck and courage of our heroic heros. (After the 'infantry' support deserted.). Similarly, the survivors will have to find a way to overcome this new threat.
Dwight must be playing some longer game since it appears he did fell the trees but now appears to be tight with Negan again. I guess the story didn't give him the opportunity but why not frag Negan in the shootout?

That PRI enshrouded rifle must have a  special adaptor for shooting little arrows, because in real life that doosch bag is rabidly anti-gun.

Surely he's not such a huge hypocrite to be shooting "A GUN" on national TV!  

Oh the woez and the feelz!

This. It was a crap sandwich

The plan involved Dwight using his position of trust to allow Rick et al to surprise the other outposts and break the Saviors. IIRC, he thought killing Negan alone would not bring them down. His plan won't work if he blows his cover early.

There is not one thing about the garbage pail kids that makes sense

Negan has kind of beenput in a bad spot,  in the similar position of Germany in World War II.  He now has 2 fronts to worry about.   Wonder if Rick will also deal with the junkyard  Romulans, given not only their betrayal, but they tried to kill Michone.   That may have made it personal.

Negan Did get the explosives back, also before the fighting broke out.

they were loading long guns out of the armory.

he did lose some  guns from the guys that got deaded.

But I think he came out ahead in firearms. looks like Alexandria took

 the biggest losses, in manpower and firepower.


           

I finally realized why all the talk about Daryl and Jesus Daryl was never with a woman that I can remember.  Is that it that's all you guys got.

I don't think you can label  him  without more concrete evidence .   .  

no little ponies, or whatever they're called or care Bears there have been other lonely man on the show.

And an apparently invisible, bulletproof tiger.

You know. Looking at that meme. Seems it would have been better to have the Tiger just attack Negan

They're planning the next HUNDRED episodes

....wtf?!!!

They're going to run it into the ground, aren't they?   There won't be anything like some of AMC's other shows, where the producers actually tried to break the mold of old television, and have shows go out at a high point, they're going to follow the old game plan.  Run a show until the ratings kill it.  

That's the strategy shows have followed since the dawn of television, and I guess it pays.  But I hate seeing good shows, struggle into nothing.   I liked how AMC treated some of their other shows.  They had a defined beginning, middle, and end.  

We're watching Happy Days of the Dead.   ....I wonder what the shark will be(?)


In that case, a time jump is the only thing they can do.   The show has run for 7 years, all the actors have aged 7 years, ....while the storyline is only 2 years since the "outbreak".   Isn't Carl still supposed to be a kid?

Getting inside Rick's OODA loop is no great challenge. It's more of a linear process.

They need to jump forward and cast some 20-something year old as a badass Carl in a John Connor type role.

In the first episode have a vague refence to Rick's fate: "I miss dad, who would have ever figured rectal trauma would be the end of him." and never speak of Rick again.

It's time to get rid of Carl's hat, and also time to get rid of that stupid gauze eyepad.  Give the kid a badass eyepatch, something Snake Plissken would be proud of.  It was great seeing him respond to an opportunity to strike back at the traitorous garbage-tards when they were distracted, blasting several at stabbing distance.  Now if the behind-the-scenes staff could just remind him to stop sighting through his eyepatch that would be great.

Too bad Negan stopped at showing him how to shave a few weeks ago, he could've given the kid a haircut.

Gratuitous Snake Plissken's Mac10 porn.

Why stop at the Plissken eyepatch. Carl should be wearing the leather jacket while wielding the scoped Mac-10 and Lucille as he tells the lil children's about how he bashed in Negan's head with his own bat.

I'm actually disappointed that Rick didn't get a more serious wound from the junkyard-traitors.  His automatically assuming that a group of people who are frankly fucking weird (and remember he's dealt with cannibals, so the bar for weird is set pretty high) are on his side -- after they steal from him and then try to feed him to an up-armored zombie -- was potentially the greatest level of derp ever committed by a man who seems to have a real talent for derp.  He could have brought the guns found at zombie-carnival and stolen from Oceanside to the already friendly crowd at the Kingdom & the Hilltop, but instead gave them to strangers who have proven they are willing to kill him.  Seriously, Deputy Grimes, WTF?

Re: Oceanside -- Rick's willingness to take guns from people now drives home just how far that character's sense of right & wrong has strayed in the past couple of years.  In season one, he gives a bunch of guns to a group of strangers (the Vatos) who kidnapped one of his people and wanted to ransom him for a bunch of guns; in season eight he goes on a roadtrip to steal guns from strangers (who to be fair did try to kill one of his people).

And are we ever going to get to find out what happened to Heath?

You forgot the pants and the boots with the build-in shinguards.



And we're going to need to work some Barbeau-level boobs into the scene, too.

Just watched the finale, and pretty much agree with all the complaints.

On the plus side, they surprisingly didn't end with a major cliffhanger. Tiger action, Carl channeling his inner John Wick, and Plissken's gun were cool too.

Action scenes were mostly lame. Entire episode was predictable. More Rick doing stupid shit. Junk Yard Retards are still the absolute worst thing ever to happen to the series.

So sick of Rick's group getting captured (in part or in whole) every episode, in this episode they even managed to surrender twice in one battle. After all they've been through you'd think they'd realize the consequences of surrender. A few seasons ago Rick is biting a guy's throat out to save Carl's butt cherry, now he just kneels down and lets Negan tee off on Carl's head.

Tired of Negan's monologues. It would have been awesome if Rick had told him to shut the fuck up mid sentence.

It was an OK episode, but did not feel like a season finale.

The action scenes took about 100 steps back from the episode where Rick and his team conquered the outpost in S7.

If I was in that scenario, I would of ran and been ahead of everyone. Fuck that.  I would already be hit blind sided by the chaos of figuring out wtf is going on. Throw in a big ass tiger..  something that I wouldn't of thought still existed .. fighting on the other teams side and mauling all my teammates? I would pop smoke so fast, fuck that.  

So I think it's totally plausible for Negans crew and the junk yard douches to choose to flee vs fight. No time to aim accurately at a Tiger bouncing around mauling and ripping the throats out of your friends all while you are being shot at during the chaos.

So what would a time jump accomplish? Let them introduce new characters out of the blue and get rid of current ones?

Because it happens a little later in the comics.

That was the worst instance of plot armor in the whole series.  Negan is in mid swing and somehow the tiger takes out the henchman standing 8 feet behind him?  And Negan somehow checks his power swing after that?

And the whole Rick cowering like a little baby when the fight goes down. Where is the Rick who bit a guys throat to save Carl?  The badass Rick who dropped those two guys in the bar in the second season?  Shooting has already started and he's whinging to make a deal with the people betraying him?  He is nothing like the animal he was at the end of last season.

Yes. It's like a reboot without having to explain how they got to where they are that point in the time line other than a footnote..
I would like more than a 2yr jump myself. Kill Rick off, Carl could be older, Judith older. Maybe Carl and Ingrid hooking up or something.
Heck leave Rick alive and Carl get's tired of his crap and leaves and takes people with him to start some new camp.