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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:05:32 PM EDT
[#1]
In a similar vein…
What if we took old worn-out drunks from the VFW and American Legion, strapped backpacks full of remotely-detonated high explosives on them and sent them shambling towards the Chinese lines? The downstream savings in VA Disability and military retirement payments would pay for the whole thing on day one. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:11:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a similar vein… What if we took old worn-out drunks from the VFW and American Legion, strapped backpacks full of remotely-detonated high explosives on them and sent them shambling towards the Chinese lines? The downstream savings in VA Disability and military retirement payments would pay for the whole thing on day one. why would you want to be blown up? I vote for F-104 Jarts |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:14:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a similar vein… What if we took old worn-out drunks from the VFW and American Legion, strapped backpacks full of remotely-detonated high explosives on them and sent them shambling towards the Chinese lines? The downstream savings in VA Disability and military retirement payments would pay for the whole thing on day one. 
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:17:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We already have unmanned cruise missiles. They are called cruise missiles. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:22:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: & the Germans did it with "Mistrel" of a command fighter (Bf-109 or FW-190) atop a tired old JU-88 with a enormous shaped charge warhead. https://preview.redd.it/aor0i5otcv721.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ef03bc63b26743078f2f09969df780a83f9b3c3a I always wondered what poor sap got the job of trying to fly the fighter... seems like it would be similar to riding a downhill mountain bike course on one of those old 8 foot tall bikes. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:35:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Would there be repercussions with some of the old disarmament treaties? I didn't think anything capable of delivering a nuke could be made airworthy again.
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:37:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Cool idea.
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:40:12 PM EDT
[#8]
I think it’s a reasonable idea that could work, but also...SKYNET.
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:42:35 PM EDT
[#9]
 Stealth (2005) Original Trailer [FHD] |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:43:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pffft. Break out the 105Gs, the 104's and the 106's. Break them out from where? They were scrapped YEARS ago.   |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:44:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Flying fighter jets on a 1-3 second satellite delay, what could go wrong?
Edited for current day sat delay |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:47:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guarantee you that F-105 is no longer flyable, USAF is pissed that the Collings Foundation has both a flyable F-4D and an F-105. Why would the USAF be pissed that the Collings Foundation has a flyable F-4 and an F-105? |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 11:40:11 PM EDT
[#13]
I thought one of main reasons for retiring many aircraft that are older was maintenance cost.....now all the sudden its inexpensive to bring them back?
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Posted: 8/19/2022 11:51:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would there be repercussions with some of the old disarmament treaties? I didn't think anything capable of delivering a nuke could be made airworthy again. STRATEGIC delivery devices (Long Range Bombers like the B-52s, B-1s, (or B-58s except they are all scrapped or in museums.  )If you look at the Boneyard photos, all the old BUFFs (D's & F's & G's ) are cut up by dropping a crane mounted chopping blade into 5 parts per the SALT II treaty and the parts left "out" for viewing so the Soviets can count the "removed" aircraft from our allowable total via Satellite. The Boneyard recently returned two "H" Models from mothballs back to Service to replace two BUFF Hull loses. Bigger_Hammer  |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 11:59:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: STRATEGIC delivery devices (Long Range Bombers like the B-52s, B-1s, (or B-58s except they are all scrapped or in museums. )If you look at the Boneyard photos, all the old BUFFs (D's & F's & G's ) are cut up by dropping a crane mounted chopping blade into 5 parts per the SALT II treaty and the parts left "out" for viewing so the Soviets can count the "removed" aircraft from our allowable total via Satellite. The Boneyard recently returned two "H" Models from mothballs back to Service to replace two BUFF Hull loses. Bigger_Hammer Thank you. I couldn't remember if it was a specific series of aircraft or any nuclear capable aircraft. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:03:12 AM EDT
[#16]
i kinda like the idea at first glance . Better than becoming a target drone. But how clapped out are those jets though? How much maintenance needed to get them operational. And what useful life will they have remaining.
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:05:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine was resurrected from the boneyard https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/307202/BB7617B6-06FE-4CD2-ABB2-CB9579D6BEAD_jpe-2495550.JPG I was good friends in middle school with a kid whose dad had dozens of those. He coinvented the ball camera thing that's on everything now. His company flew over South America, using the camera to spy. He was very secretive about what they did and he said they did deer counts Eta: his company was contracted by the government |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:10:23 AM EDT
[#18]
We go to war with China and after a few months pilots will be dueling with 172's and M4's. Between losses and supply chain issues, there won't be much of an air war.
Okay, I'm exaggerating. There is a guy out by my range who has a clapped out Flogger, I'd like something like that if I ever get some land. You look like you could get tetanus if you got within 6' of it, but it's on its landing gear. I smile every time I drive by. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:11:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Weird. Who are we going to fawn over if there isn't a live pilot in the seat?
So, anyway, what about the pilot shortage? Having unmanned aircraft seems like a good interim idea. There's talk about one (1) pilot and one (1) boomer KC-46 missions in 'extreme wartime conditions'. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:12:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't they use those planes for spare parts? That would take the US about 10yrs to replace. Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't they use those planes for spare parts? the U.S. lost 900 planes. That would take the US about 10yrs to replace. Lockheed is building ~155 F35’s this year for context. The first new F16 built on the Greenville, SC should be delivered late next year or early 2024. I think there are currently 150 jets on order currently and they’re looking to complete 25-40 jets per year in SC. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:13:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lockheed is building ~155 F35’s this year for context. The first new F16 built on the Greenville, SC should be delivered late next year or early 2024. I think there are currently 150 jets on order currently and they’re looking to complete 25-40 jets per year in SC. Okay, 6 years. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:15:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lockheed is building ~155 F35’s this year for context. The first new F16 built on the Greenville, SC should be delivered late next year or early 2024. I think there are currently 150 jets on order currently and they’re looking to complete 25-40 jets per year in SC. They've started building F-16 wings in India. What could possibly go wrong? 
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:16:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay, 6 years. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lockheed is building ~155 F35’s this year for context. The first new F16 built on the Greenville, SC should be delivered late next year or early 2024. I think there are currently 150 jets on order currently and they’re looking to complete 25-40 jets per year in SC. Okay, 6 years. Your 10 years is probably accurate honestly. So much of our raw material comes from Chyna it would impact deliveries great. The impact would make the Covid years look appealing. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:16:55 AM EDT
[#24]
Those planes aren’t in the boneyard because there weren’t pilots to fly them.
They went to the boneyard because the individual airframes are past their lifespan, maintenance became too expensive per flight hour, or they were just technologically outdated. Not sure how converting them to pilotless drones fixes much of that. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:18:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They've started building F-16 wings in India. What could possibly go wrong? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lockheed is building ~155 F35’s this year for context. The first new F16 built on the Greenville, SC should be delivered late next year or early 2024. I think there are currently 150 jets on order currently and they’re looking to complete 25-40 jets per year in SC. They've started building F-16 wings in India. What could possibly go wrong? They’ve been building massive sections of the C130 over there for a long time. Prior to India, F16 wing sections were built in Israel. Dealing with the Israelis is much more pleasant than Indians. Trust me. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:19:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always wondered what poor sap got the job of trying to fly the fighter... seems like it would be similar to riding a downhill mountain bike course on one of those old 8 foot tall bikes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: & the Germans did it with "Mistrel" of a command fighter (Bf-109 or FW-190) atop a tired old JU-88 with a enormous shaped charge warhead. https://preview.redd.it/aor0i5otcv721.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ef03bc63b26743078f2f09969df780a83f9b3c3a I always wondered what poor sap got the job of trying to fly the fighter... seems like it would be similar to riding a downhill mountain bike course on one of those old 8 foot tall bikes. I heard it said that allied air superiority at the end of the war made the Mistel mission a suicide mission in all but name. You're in a FW-190. Okay, your odds of survival aren't all that great. Now you're in a 190 strapped to a worn out bomber that's been turned into a flying bomb heading towards some high value target probably protected by anti aircraft guns. Also hundreds of American and British fighter aircraft are hunting you. But I think they pulled it off on a few occasions. Don't know if any of the guys in the fighter were able to make it back to base. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:27:59 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They've started building F-16 wings in India. What could possibly go wrong? Nothing. The Indians make good shit aircraft wise. US aerospace company Lockheed Martin today approved the manufacturing of wings of F-16 fighter jets at the Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility here. Hyderabad-based Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility has been certified to makeF-16 fighter jet wings. Annually, the facility can make 50 pairs of wings, which can carry fuel, perform and fly at ‘9G’ and have 12,000-hour lifespan. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) makes parts for the US Navy's Boeing F-18 Superhornet. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:31:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prior to India, F16 wing sections were built in Israel. Dealing with the Israelis is much more pleasant than Indians. Trust me. Fail. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has reopened the production line to manufacture wings for F-16 fighter jets for Lockheed Martin. The assembly line at the IAI facilities was established during the 1980s. The resumption in production follows increased worldwide demand for the F-16 Block 70/72, demonstrating another important milestone between the two companies. IAI Delivers First F-16 Wing & Vertical Fin to Lockheed Martin for new F-16 Block 70/72 Aircraft 23/02/2022 Bock 70/72, F-16, IAI, Israel Aerospace Industries, Lockheed Martin Tel Aviv – February 23, 2022 – Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has delivered the first F-16 wing and vertical fin to Lockheed Martin, following the reopening of the F-16 wing assembly line at IAI. As a result of increased worldwide demand for the F-16 Block 70/72, IAI reopened the assembly lines that had been established in the 1980s to continue production of the F-16 aerostructures assembled at IAI. The F-16 wings and vertical fins will be shipped to the F-16 production and final assembly line in Greenville, South Carolina, USA. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:36:43 AM EDT
[#29]
How many suicide drone F-16's would it take to sink a Chinese aircraft carrier?
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:48:20 AM EDT
[#30]
if we are going to expend all this money and man hours on dead aircraft to be flown with AI why not add a few extra parts to make them transform into robots? I mean, hypothetically of course.
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Posted: 8/20/2022 1:11:17 AM EDT
[#31]
This is exactly how they sold the SLS moon rocket to congress. "We are making from old space shuttle parts, so we'll save money". 10 billion later, it's still garbage.
The government will spend the same amount of money, whether they use old planes, or build new ones. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 2:07:01 AM EDT
[#32]
They are already converting F-16’s into target drones, almost all arguments about cost worn out are mute. QF-16’s take off and get blown up, instead of shooting them out of the sky they can be used as weapons platforms or as flying bombs. They can be used as a first wave, there are really allot of possibilities.
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Posted: 8/20/2022 2:58:43 AM EDT
[#33]
It sounds like a great idea on the surface, but it doesn't seem like it passes the real test of any large-scale military contract - to provide enough opportunity to siphon off excess money to dole out for political favors. The goal isn't to save money; the goal is to spend money.
This sounds like a cheap, cost-effective use to put a bunch of rusting hulks towards. That is not what DoD wants out of a contract. Or at least, it's not what the people who work with DoD want. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 4:03:11 AM EDT
[#34]
From what I have seen we can take China if they invade Taiwan, but it will be bloody.
Heavy losses on both sides. Anything we can do to reduce losses on our side will make me happy. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 4:28:23 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: DARPA's been working on a robot pilot with mechanical arms and legs that could fly older aircraft without replacing all the controls and avionics. If it works it could be super easy to mass convert manned aircraft to drones. Here's one flying an analog-everything 1968 Cessna, there aren't even any added external sensors  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQxacTMu7XUIm not so sure on the "super easy to mass convert" part with that huge contraption...it prolly took them 3 months to assemble that huge mess inside that cockpit and get it calibrated just right for it even to fly.. doesnt look like some "plug and play" piece of equipment |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 4:56:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Seems like a good idea. But what about flight time? One of the benefits from drones is they can hand around for quite a while, can an old F16 do the same thing?
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Posted: 8/20/2022 5:24:05 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like a good idea. But what about flight time? One of the benefits from drones is they can hand around for quite a while, can an old F16 do the same thing? IF an f-16 is made into a drone it will be used for dangerous strikes, like SEAD. so they wont need much loiter time, just program a route for it to go to, detect radar, fire HARM, and then get the heck out and RTB |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 5:27:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IF an f-16 is made into a drone it will be used for dangerous strikes, like SEAD. so they wont need much loiter time, just program a route for it to go to, detect radar, fire HARM, and then get the heck out and RTB Makes sense |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 5:33:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol why empower Skynet that much more? We still haven’t developed plasma rifles to punch holes in T800s yet. Oh, I’ve got something in the 18,000 Joule range 
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Posted: 8/20/2022 5:38:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe in some cases. In most however it’s because they are just clapped out. Also, who’s going to pay to maintain this fleet of Q jets? Maintain? These will only fly 1 sortie. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 5:40:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Could be feasible but most likely a logistics nightmare.
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:21:17 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a similar vein… What if we took old worn-out drunks from the VFW and American Legion, strapped backpacks full of remotely-detonated high explosives on them and sent them shambling towards the Chinese lines? The downstream savings in VA Disability and military retirement payments would pay for the whole thing on day one. I wish to subscribe to your news letter. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:36:40 AM EDT
[#43]
How about no?
The Russians keep their old sh*t for a reason. We wasted a lot of aircraft as drone targets already. Just keep them mothballed in the desert. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:40:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fail. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has reopened the production line to manufacture wings for F-16 fighter jets for Lockheed Martin. The assembly line at the IAI facilities was established during the 1980s. The resumption in production follows increased worldwide demand for the F-16 Block 70/72, demonstrating another important milestone between the two companies. IAI Delivers First F-16 Wing & Vertical Fin to Lockheed Martin for new F-16 Block 70/72 Aircraft 23/02/2022 Bock 70/72, F-16, IAI, Israel Aerospace Industries, Lockheed Martin Tel Aviv February 23, 2022 Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has delivered the first F-16 wing and vertical fin to Lockheed Martin, following the reopening of the F-16 wing assembly line at IAI. As a result of increased worldwide demand for the F-16 Block 70/72, IAI reopened the assembly lines that had been established in the 1980s to continue production of the F-16 aerostructures assembled at IAI. The F-16 wings and vertical fins will be shipped to the F-16 production and final assembly line in Greenville, South Carolina, USA. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Prior to India, F16 wing sections were built in Israel. Dealing with the Israelis is much more pleasant than Indians. Trust me. Fail. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has reopened the production line to manufacture wings for F-16 fighter jets for Lockheed Martin. The assembly line at the IAI facilities was established during the 1980s. The resumption in production follows increased worldwide demand for the F-16 Block 70/72, demonstrating another important milestone between the two companies. IAI Delivers First F-16 Wing & Vertical Fin to Lockheed Martin for new F-16 Block 70/72 Aircraft 23/02/2022 Bock 70/72, F-16, IAI, Israel Aerospace Industries, Lockheed Martin Tel Aviv February 23, 2022 Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has delivered the first F-16 wing and vertical fin to Lockheed Martin, following the reopening of the F-16 wing assembly line at IAI. As a result of increased worldwide demand for the F-16 Block 70/72, IAI reopened the assembly lines that had been established in the 1980s to continue production of the F-16 aerostructures assembled at IAI. The F-16 wings and vertical fins will be shipped to the F-16 production and final assembly line in Greenville, South Carolina, USA. A similar press release in early 2022 - https://www.iai.co.il/f16-block-70/72-aircraft |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:42:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't they use those planes for spare parts? That would take the US about 10yrs to replace. Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't they use those planes for spare parts? the U.S. lost 900 planes. That would take the US about 10yrs to replace. Seems wise to start now, its only money, whats another 5-10 trillion ? |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:55:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maintain? These will only fly 1 sortie. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Maybe in some cases. In most however it's because they are just clapped out. Also, who's going to pay to maintain this fleet of Q jets? Maintain? These will only fly 1 sortie. The cost is tens of millions of dollars per airplane. The time to implement is months, and when repairs are required to make the airplane airworthy, double or triple the time and cost. Either every airplane has to be made practically identical, or a (untenable) logistics and support project will be required with such mundane issues as unique flight control and weapons delivery software for each block variation. Some moron will propose, "Derp, we'll 3D print parts, herp.". I'll anxiously wait for one of those fancy printed flight control computer or a bleed air valve. I won't be able to buy enough coffee to get buy while I wait. Waves of junk F-16's sent on long range strikes across oceans will be refueled by what? How about this idea: we'll enslave lovely unicorns genetically modified to fart jet fuel. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 9:12:57 AM EDT
[#47]
As mentioned, China already does this.
Would be an effective, if not cheap, way to absorb A2AD missiles, which is probably why China re-activated their obsolete aircraft: they'll soak up missiles just as well as the good stuff, which protects the good stuff. And because it's a model known to also be manned, they can't risk NOT shooting it down. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 9:27:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In a similar vein… What if we took old worn-out drunks from the VFW and American Legion, strapped backpacks full of remotely-detonated high explosives on them and sent them shambling towards the Chinese lines? The downstream savings in VA Disability and military retirement payments would pay for the whole thing on day one. https://y.yarn.co/1d58ce9d-b935-4ec1-885d-12e7c76b0cd8_text.gif In this vein of thought- you could bring back retired pilots to fly all these in a total war situation. With sat delay you aren’t dog fighting, but neither would a remote drone pilot need to be able to resist high gees either. Add in some AI to help with the immediate issues and that could help in the dogfight world. @FightingHellfish made me laugh. ?? |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 9:33:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would the USAF be pissed that the Collings Foundation has a flyable F-4 and an F-105? Because our government doesn't want peon citizens flying around in surplus USAF/USN jets. Even the Collings Foundation had as per FB aircraft relics page, Collings had to go to some congress critters to be able to fly the F-4. There should be tons of T-37s flying around. But there aren't because they were never offered for sale. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 9:49:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing. The Indians make good shit aircraft wise. US aerospace company Lockheed Martin today approved the manufacturing of wings of F-16 fighter jets at the Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility here. Hyderabad-based Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility has been certified to makeF-16 fighter jet wings. Annually, the facility can make 50 pairs of wings, which can carry fuel, perform and fly at ‘9G’ and have 12,000-hour lifespan. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) makes parts for the US Navy's Boeing F-18 Superhornet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They've started building F-16 wings in India. What could possibly go wrong? Nothing. The Indians make good shit aircraft wise. US aerospace company Lockheed Martin today approved the manufacturing of wings of F-16 fighter jets at the Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility here. Hyderabad-based Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility has been certified to makeF-16 fighter jet wings. Annually, the facility can make 50 pairs of wings, which can carry fuel, perform and fly at ‘9G’ and have 12,000-hour lifespan. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) makes parts for the US Navy's Boeing F-18 Superhornet. Taiwan makes good semiconductor chips. What could go wrong. |
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