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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:10:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Your family starts with a sizable chunk of land. Hands it down to the next generation. Pays tax on it and unloads some of it and hands it down to the next generation who pays tax on it. Gets smaller and smaller until one day they sell it to a corp who farms and such. In a few generations the chunk of land is now owned by 20 or so families that may/may not have sold off parts of it thru the years for money, not their thing, etc...
Hard to make a living on 20 acres of land. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:10:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The plan is to force most people to move to large urban areas where they can be more easily controlled. If you haven't read docs pertaining to the United Nations Agenda 2030 plan you should. It's really just a case of supply and demand, and the people living rural have shot themselves in the foot in a lot of instances. For farming, when the price of milk is up, they want to add more cows, when the price of milk is down, they want to add more cows, the market keeps getting saturated through peaks and valleys and the little guy can't keep up, they have to sell out. Once a big farm owns that that land is basically locked, it won't be for sale again to anyone other than an even bigger farm. For other land one guy sees his neighbor sell out to someone downstate, so he jacks the price of his land hoping to sell out also, same thing happens and people notice, now the young people in the area can't even afford land where they grew up and they get price right out of their own market. You should see some of the asking prices of scrub and swamp around here, it's just sitting and the owners are hoping someone will want to build a retirement home on it and they will end up with half a million in their pocket. A customer right now bought land he watched for 15 years, the price went down 80% before he could make an offer. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:13:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
In my travels across this country. I've noticed a pattern. What was once the viable family farm has been destroyed by a number of changes. Rabid Commercialization of the farm industry or the conversion of these lands into private estates by the new nomenklatura that has taken over our society. The commercialization is just that, large agricultural businesses buying up huge swaths of viable farm land and corporately running it. But I also see entire rural communities being bought up by urbanites and those properties being turned into private Dachas and Estates. The local residents selling their lands because of rising property taxes and depressed economic opportunities. Yup, I see the natives being replaced on the local government bodies and the new comers raising taxes as a way to make it unaffordable for the original residents to afford living there. It is very interesting as once string vibrant rural communities become nothing more than weekend retreats for the ruling class in our government. A good number of them that have these properties are elected officials, agency heads, high members of academia, or owners of left wing business/groups. It has bee happening all over the US. You have Mark Zuckerberg buying up huge swaths of land in Hawaii for example. Here in Florida, small communities like Monticello or Lloyd have been bought up and turned into weekend retreats by Legislators in Tallahassee. Down in Central FL the same is happening. I've seen it in Tennessee, the Carolinas, California, New York, Colorado, etc. . . The new nomenklatura keep it unaffordable by keeping land prices artificially high by throwing large amounts of money. Same is happening with housing in a number of areas too. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:13:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha, the government beat them to it here. I'm surrounded by National Forest.  |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:21:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Most recent pic of Miami_JBT and Old Man Iggy1337 
https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/scooby-doo-unmasking-gif-4.gif |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:31:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm taking all of Messidor off work, and will spend it on my 28 Hectares.  |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:39:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your family starts with a sizable chunk of land. Hands it down to the next generation. Pays tax on it and unloads some of it and hands it down to the next generation who pays tax on it. Gets smaller and smaller until one day they sell it to a corp who farms and such. In a few generations the chunk of land is now owned by 20 or so families that may/may not have sold off parts of it thru the years for money, not their thing, etc... Hard to make a living on 20 acres of land. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your family starts with a sizable chunk of land. Hands it down to the next generation. Pays tax on it and unloads some of it and hands it down to the next generation who pays tax on it. Gets smaller and smaller until one day they sell it to a corp who farms and such. In a few generations the chunk of land is now owned by 20 or so families that may/may not have sold off parts of it thru the years for money, not their thing, etc... Hard to make a living on 20 acres of land. For example, if a husband and wife each work for a company as employees earning $100k/yr in gross compensation (say $50k each, and that includes their wages and benefits), how much land would they need say farming corn or soybeans to equal that income and the lifestyle it offered? Researching this I found a recent Article in Corn and Soybean digest suggesting that a 1,000 acre farm will produce income equal to just part-time work. "Farmers have to understand that there's not much chance to make a living on a 1,000-acre farm without supplemental income or non-commodity crops. You can count on one hand the number of farms in our area that don't have an outside job or enterprise to go along with their farms." In our sort of country, my husband always says you need a thousand cows per family to make a good living, pay a mortgage and maybe go ahead a little if you get a run of seasons. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:42:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
In my travels across this country. I've noticed a pattern. What was once the viable family farm has been destroyed by a number of changes. In the old days the family farm would have animals but also have land to grow the crops to feeds the animals. The cost of equipment is ridiculously expensive now, so using it 1 to 4 times a year is not profitable. The commercial farms will have so much land that they will use the equipment for months on end. Delivery and transport fees are a similar problem. The delivery cost to bring a semi out to a small family farm and unload 2,000 pounds of feed is the same cost that commercial farms see when they have 50,000 pounds of feed delivered. That kills the margins for the small farmer. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:43:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I grew up on a family farm. Every 1/4-1/2 mile down pretty much every road was another family farm. Now when I visit I will drive 12 miles before seeing a single farm with animals. The biggest problem is commodity prices and margins are so thin now that the only way you can make money is to be a huge commercial farm dedicated to just one thing where all the buying and selling can be done in bulk. In the old days the family farm would have animals but also have land to grow the crops to feeds the animals. The cost of equipment is ridiculously expensive now, so using it 1 to 4 times a year is not profitable. The commercial farms will have so much land that they will use the equipment for months on end. Delivery and transport fees are a similar problem. The delivery cost to bring a semi out to a small family farm and unload 2,000 pounds of feed is the same cost that commercial farms see when they have 50,000 pounds of feed delivered. That kills the margins for the small farmer. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:50:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And food is 10% of a family's budget instead of 70% as only a 100 years ago. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I grew up on a family farm. Every 1/4-1/2 mile down pretty much every road was another family farm. Now when I visit I will drive 12 miles before seeing a single farm with animals. The biggest problem is commodity prices and margins are so thin now that the only way you can make money is to be a huge commercial farm dedicated to just one thing where all the buying and selling can be done in bulk. In the old days the family farm would have animals but also have land to grow the crops to feeds the animals. The cost of equipment is ridiculously expensive now, so using it 1 to 4 times a year is not profitable. The commercial farms will have so much land that they will use the equipment for months on end. Delivery and transport fees are a similar problem. The delivery cost to bring a semi out to a small family farm and unload 2,000 pounds of feed is the same cost that commercial farms see when they have 50,000 pounds of feed delivered. That kills the margins for the small farmer. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:55:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guess it depends on the location. There certainly isn't any "gentrification" taking place in Western Oklahoma
I believe the rednecks and weather keep certain elements out. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 2:58:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not fluent in colonial units of measurment. I'm not sure how many hogsheads it is, but I'm sure it's a lot. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 3:19:59 PM EDT
[#13]
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Noticed that too. All the farms it seemed were some rich folks idea of playing "rustic". Same with Montana and the uber rich buying up all the ranches. We have the same problem locally. People moving down from NE states and buying mcMansions and all the land, driving everything up so that locals can't even afford a quarter acre anymore. It really sucks because you don't have to even be a uber wealthy New Yorker to have a huge house here. They sell a 2 be apartment in the city and can build a 8br house here, and what really grinds my gears is they bring their politics with them Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Been that way for a while in Virginia. I can drive out to Middleburg or Charlottesville and see more people playing farm than working at it. At least some of them seem to have some class about them. Once saw a guy near Middleburg riding his horse in a top hat and tails. Some folks still fox hunt out there. But more and more wealthy D's from the beltway. We have the same problem locally. People moving down from NE states and buying mcMansions and all the land, driving everything up so that locals can't even afford a quarter acre anymore. It really sucks because you don't have to even be a uber wealthy New Yorker to have a huge house here. They sell a 2 be apartment in the city and can build a 8br house here, and what really grinds my gears is they bring their politics with them |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 3:27:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happens as the Boomers start shitting themselves and not knowing what day of the week it is? Or die? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here is what I am seeing. 10K plus Bommers retiring every day. So, they make up the bulk of the new buyers for rural land. But, there is far more land for sale than there are buyers in most areas. Check some real estate listing, and you will see there are tons of farms/ranches in the 800K to 1.5 million range that have been on the market for years. If they are not close to a big city, there are few buyers Far from being a curse, these Boomers buying rural property are a blessing. Outside relatively small niche markets, many of these family farms are simply not economically viable. Meanwhile, they are capital intensive businesses. More importantly, there is no available labor. The local labor consists of 10% decent workers, and 90% illegals, criminals, scum bags, or village idiots. So, the sellers are delighted to sell. These farms are a mill stone around their necks, not some sort of golden egg. Family farming, more often than not, is hard work with long hours and modest income. Once the purchase is complete, the Boomers engage in some minimal level of ranching/farming to maintain tax breaks. Perhaps nothing more than leasing the land for grazing. Instead of seeking to increase the taxes imposed on their most valuable asset, the Boomers are minimizing their tax burden. What tends to have the biggest impact is the change in spending patterns. The Boomers hit Cosco once a month for bulk items, and then buy a ton of stuff over the internet. So, they produce far less revenue for the local A&P. And, they tend to spend large dollars on traveling or meals in the big city, as opposed to the local joints. If folks want to save the local family farms, its easy to do. Stop shopping at the chain grocery stores, and start buying all your fruits, veggies, and meat at the farmer's market. But, that takes time and money. Lots of money. And, its not academics, politicians,or government employees doing the buying. They are far too few in number or generally lack the assets. Its former business people and former two income, professional couples. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 3:41:08 PM EDT
[#15]
I gave up rabid commercialization for rabbit commercialization traded 42 acres for 3 acres.
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Posted: 4/17/2019 3:44:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your family starts with a sizable chunk of land. Hands it down to the next generation. Pays tax on it and unloads some of it and hands it down to the next generation who pays tax on it. Gets smaller and smaller until one day they sell it to a corp who farms and such. In a few generations the chunk of land is now owned by 20 or so families that may/may not have sold off parts of it thru the years for money, not their thing, etc... Hard to make a living on 20 acres of land. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 3:49:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I grew up on a family farm. Every 1/4-1/2 mile down pretty much every road was another family farm. Now when I visit I will drive 12 miles before seeing a single farm with animals. The biggest problem is commodity prices and margins are so thin now that the only way you can make money is to be a huge commercial farm dedicated to just one thing where all the buying and selling can be done in bulk. In the old days the family farm would have animals but also have land to grow the crops to feeds the animals. The cost of equipment is ridiculously expensive now, so using it 1 to 4 times a year is not profitable. The commercial farms will have so much land that they will use the equipment for months on end. Delivery and transport fees are a similar problem. The delivery cost to bring a semi out to a small family farm and unload 2,000 pounds of feed is the same cost that commercial farms see when they have 50,000 pounds of feed delivered. That kills the margins for the small farmer. Buying the farms close by worked out for the co-ownership and co-maintenance of expensive machinery as well as shared labor. Family co-ops basically and for a few folks that worked out. What I see here is one farmer buying up 20 farms and computerized turntable automated milking system my neighbor just put in three of them and is milking 1500 head which he plans to double in the next 4 yrs. He also employs a shit load of Mexicans...many illegals...imo The farms he bought up all had farm houses so he houses his illegals in old farm houses off the main roads. Easy to identify as they usually have 20 cars parked on the lawn and around back and all the windows have blankets over them. The meth and heroin problem in our county really has them worried but they won't touch the illegals or point the finger at these people being the reason for their kids succumbing to drug addiction and overdoses |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 3:51:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Commercial refrigeration is a bit over 100 years old. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 4:00:51 PM EDT
[#19]
New? lol
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Posted: 4/17/2019 4:17:57 PM EDT
[#20]
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That's not what we have. One of the original reasons for "democracy" was to stop having permanent ruling classes/families/etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's your point ?? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 4:41:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Urban living is for suckers. The ONLY advantage is proximity to amenities. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:04:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Urban living is for suckers. The ONLY advantage is proximity to amenities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In my travels across this country. I've noticed a pattern. What was once the viable family farm has been destroyed by a number of changes. Rabid Commercialization of the farm industry or the conversion of these lands into private estates by the new nomenklatura that has taken over our society. The commercialization is just that, large agricultural businesses buying up huge swaths of viable farm land and corporately running it. But I also see entire rural communities being bought up by urbanites and those properties being turned into private Dachas and Estates. The local residents selling their lands because of rising property taxes and depressed economic opportunities. Yup, I see the natives being replaced on the local government bodies and the new comers raising taxes as a way to make it unaffordable for the original residents to afford living there. It is very interesting as once string vibrant rural communities become nothing more than weekend retreats for the ruling class in our government. A good number of them that have these properties are elected officials, agency heads, high members of academia, or owners of left wing business/groups. It has bee happening all over the US. You have Mark Zuckerberg buying up huge swaths of land in Hawaii for example. Here in Florida, small communities like Monticello or Lloyd have been bought up and turned into weekend retreats by Legislators in Tallahassee. Down in Central FL the same is happening. I've seen it in Tennessee, the Carolinas, California, New York, Colorado, etc. . . The new nomenklatura keep it unaffordable by keeping land prices artificially high by throwing large amounts of money. Same is happening with housing in a number of areas too. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:13:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hard to make a living on any amount of acres when you're 80 years old and all your kids have gotten out of dodge Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Your family starts with a sizable chunk of land. Hands it down to the next generation. Pays tax on it and unloads some of it and hands it down to the next generation who pays tax on it. Gets smaller and smaller until one day they sell it to a corp who farms and such. In a few generations the chunk of land is now owned by 20 or so families that may/may not have sold off parts of it thru the years for money, not their thing, etc... Hard to make a living on 20 acres of land. You milked twice a day, and did corn and hay when in season. A hard way to earn a living, but you could earn a living. Of those 3 small farms left, two went through the hassle of becoming certified organic, so the milk actually brings in some money, and if they sell off any extra hay it's probably triple the price of "normal" hay. The other one has been operating at a loss for a few years now, but it is a family owned farm so everyone is also working a normal job like cleaning the school on the night shift, driving bus, or working part time at the lumber yard. That's a tough one, still busting ass to only break even and needing to work even harder to cover cost of living, they are trying to just avoid having to sell out at this point. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:15:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pay tends to be higher for working professionals in urban areas. If you are in certain fields, and you want to make the most money possible, you are better off moving to any number of large cities to do it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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In my travels across this country. I've noticed a pattern. What was once the viable family farm has been destroyed by a number of changes. Rabid Commercialization of the farm industry or the conversion of these lands into private estates by the new nomenklatura that has taken over our society. The commercialization is just that, large agricultural businesses buying up huge swaths of viable farm land and corporately running it. But I also see entire rural communities being bought up by urbanites and those properties being turned into private Dachas and Estates. The local residents selling their lands because of rising property taxes and depressed economic opportunities. Yup, I see the natives being replaced on the local government bodies and the new comers raising taxes as a way to make it unaffordable for the original residents to afford living there. It is very interesting as once string vibrant rural communities become nothing more than weekend retreats for the ruling class in our government. A good number of them that have these properties are elected officials, agency heads, high members of academia, or owners of left wing business/groups. It has bee happening all over the US. You have Mark Zuckerberg buying up huge swaths of land in Hawaii for example. Here in Florida, small communities like Monticello or Lloyd have been bought up and turned into weekend retreats by Legislators in Tallahassee. Down in Central FL the same is happening. I've seen it in Tennessee, the Carolinas, California, New York, Colorado, etc. . . The new nomenklatura keep it unaffordable by keeping land prices artificially high by throwing large amounts of money. Same is happening with housing in a number of areas too. I presume you're advocating living in the cheapest apartment possible? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:22:13 PM EDT
[#25]
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I'm not fluent in colonial units of measurment. I'm not sure how many hogsheads it is, but I'm sure it's a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll be up to 28 hectares then.  |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:23:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what large cities have low Cost Of Living to ensure that most of that money makes it into your bank account? I presume you're advocating living in the cheapest apartment possible? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In my travels across this country. I've noticed a pattern. What was once the viable family farm has been destroyed by a number of changes. Rabid Commercialization of the farm industry or the conversion of these lands into private estates by the new nomenklatura that has taken over our society. The commercialization is just that, large agricultural businesses buying up huge swaths of viable farm land and corporately running it. But I also see entire rural communities being bought up by urbanites and those properties being turned into private Dachas and Estates. The local residents selling their lands because of rising property taxes and depressed economic opportunities. Yup, I see the natives being replaced on the local government bodies and the new comers raising taxes as a way to make it unaffordable for the original residents to afford living there. It is very interesting as once string vibrant rural communities become nothing more than weekend retreats for the ruling class in our government. A good number of them that have these properties are elected officials, agency heads, high members of academia, or owners of left wing business/groups. It has bee happening all over the US. You have Mark Zuckerberg buying up huge swaths of land in Hawaii for example. Here in Florida, small communities like Monticello or Lloyd have been bought up and turned into weekend retreats by Legislators in Tallahassee. Down in Central FL the same is happening. I've seen it in Tennessee, the Carolinas, California, New York, Colorado, etc. . . The new nomenklatura keep it unaffordable by keeping land prices artificially high by throwing large amounts of money. Same is happening with housing in a number of areas too. I presume you're advocating living in the cheapest apartment possible? Like I mentioned earlier in the thread about the retirees from downstate that move up here, not only did they manage to save some money and make some on selling their place, they usually have a great retirement, not anything close to what you could get out here unless you commute or travel a lot. It's funny you mention cost of living too, I have some neighbors down the road that moved up here from NYC, nice people. They had local contractors do some work on their place to update it and change some things, before I was over there working and when I was getting to know them one of the things they mentioned is "Everyone we've had do work here is just so reasonable compared to where we used to live"......reasonable meaning cheap. Which I thought was very interesting because one of the people they had in there is one of the higher priced guys in the area. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:26:08 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm sure someone mentioned the tax angle. Usually that's a point made in reference to income taxes and whether or not the state taxes retirement income at the same level as regular income. Put the foregoing tax considerations aside for a second.
Another tax incentive for people to move to rural property is property tax. Like a lot of people in high tax jurisdictions, I pay School District RE tax, County RE tax and Township RE tax. All tolled, my property taxes are ~$15k a year. I'd love to move back out to rural central PA (717 area code), just not in the cards right now. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:31:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what large cities have low Cost Of Living to ensure that most of that money makes it into your bank account? I presume you're advocating living in the cheapest apartment possible? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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In my travels across this country. I've noticed a pattern. What was once the viable family farm has been destroyed by a number of changes. Rabid Commercialization of the farm industry or the conversion of these lands into private estates by the new nomenklatura that has taken over our society. The commercialization is just that, large agricultural businesses buying up huge swaths of viable farm land and corporately running it. But I also see entire rural communities being bought up by urbanites and those properties being turned into private Dachas and Estates. The local residents selling their lands because of rising property taxes and depressed economic opportunities. Yup, I see the natives being replaced on the local government bodies and the new comers raising taxes as a way to make it unaffordable for the original residents to afford living there. It is very interesting as once string vibrant rural communities become nothing more than weekend retreats for the ruling class in our government. A good number of them that have these properties are elected officials, agency heads, high members of academia, or owners of left wing business/groups. It has bee happening all over the US. You have Mark Zuckerberg buying up huge swaths of land in Hawaii for example. Here in Florida, small communities like Monticello or Lloyd have been bought up and turned into weekend retreats by Legislators in Tallahassee. Down in Central FL the same is happening. I've seen it in Tennessee, the Carolinas, California, New York, Colorado, etc. . . The new nomenklatura keep it unaffordable by keeping land prices artificially high by throwing large amounts of money. Same is happening with housing in a number of areas too. I presume you're advocating living in the cheapest apartment possible? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:33:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Soon to be 280 dunum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll be up to 28 hectares then. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:36:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pay tends to be higher for working professionals in urban areas. If you are in certain fields, and you want to make the most money possible, you are better off moving to any number of large cities to do it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:47:41 PM EDT
[#31]
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I work in a urban area and live in a rural, unincorporated part of my county. My commute is longer and I can't walk to Chipotle but there are no other downsides. I have a house less than 10 years old on an acre and a half and my mortgage payment is hundreds less than meager apartments 1/3rd the size in PDX. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Pay tends to be higher for working professionals in urban areas. If you are in certain fields, and you want to make the most money possible, you are better off moving to any number of large cities to do it. There are people here that travel almost 2 hours each way every work day because their work pays so much. I know one guy that works from home 2-3 days a week, and has to report to the office the rest of the week, it's a good balance for him, but 4 hours of driving on office days wouldn't fly with me. I used to do an hour each way before kids and that was barely tolerable. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:49:43 PM EDT
[#32]
The OP seems to have absorbed some socialist type dogma.
I recently bought a 40acre property that has about 15 acres in hay production by a neighboring farmer (most of rest is forest). It has been mostly a residence since it was converted from a horse farm. Don't think there is anyway a 40acre farm could support a family nowadays unless you had a specialty crop/organic etc. I looked at properties all over the Shenandoah valley and surrounding areas. Lots of small 5 acre residential lots that didn't have enough privacy or a place to shoot for my taste. Still some small farms out there - mostly cattle grazing. The Middleburg/Fanquier are has been a place for the horsey set for last 50 years or more. Ended up buying in Orange - area is a nice mix of residential, vacation homes on the lakes and working farms. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 5:52:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weather? As in highly variable, or drought stricken? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 6:11:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Traveling is the exception, but still a cost. There are people here that travel almost 2 hours each way every work day because their work pays so much. I know one guy that works from home 2-3 days a week, and has to report to the office the rest of the week, it's a good balance for him, but 4 hours of driving on office days wouldn't fly with me. I used to do an hour each way before kids and that was barely tolerable. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 6:35:35 PM EDT
[#35]
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I think modern transport and modern farming is far more responsible for that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Commercial refrigeration is a bit over 100 years old. Refrigeration allows for the transportation and storage for a greater distance and time. You and your neighbors don't have to have a milk cow and a dozen chickens if you want fresh milk and eggs. Personally, I think capital gains taxes are one of the biggest impediment to small farmers getting land. There are LOTS of old land owners (farmers) who are retired with paid off land. They might be willing to sell their land to a young farmer but they don't want to pay the capital gains tax that can be avoided by dying and letting their kids inherit the land with a stepped up basis. So they rent it out and the young farmer never gets to build his own land base. Grandpa bought 100 acres of land for $50/acre. Now it's worth $10,000/acre. Do you collect $300+/- per acre rent and pay a little income tax every year, or do you sell that land for $1,000,000 and pay tax on the $9,950 / ac difference? |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 6:39:56 PM EDT
[#36]
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Just throwing out a data point. Refrigeration allows for the transportation and storage for a greater distance and time. You and your neighbors don't have to have a milk cow and a dozen chickens if you want fresh milk and eggs. Personally, I think capital gains taxes are one of the biggest impediment to small farmers getting land. There are LOTS of old land owners (farmers) who are retired with paid off land. They might be willing to sell their land to a young farmer but they don't want to pay the capital gains tax that can be avoided by dying and letting their kids inherit the land with a stepped up basis. So they rent it out and the young farmer never gets to build his own land base. Grandpa bought 100 acres of land for $50/acre. Now it's worth $10,000/acre. Do you collect $300+/- per acre rent and pay a little income tax every year, or do you sell that land for $1,000,000 and pay tax on the $9,950 / ac difference? To your former point, I was refering to the base calories found in grains. The ability to corn feed cattle and poultry is a side benefit to that. Dairy farming could be distributed in the absence of refrigeration, but the grain required to feed I think is the larger driver. I am totally talking out of my ass here. Just my uninformed opinion. I do that a lto. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 9:30:33 PM EDT
[#37]
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With the rightful elimination of the death tax, that calculus will be even more pronounced. To your former point, I was refering to the base calories found in grains. The ability to corn feed cattle and poultry is a side benefit to that. Dairy farming could be distributed in the absence of refrigeration, but the grain required to feed I think is the larger driver. I am totally talking out of my ass here. Just my uninformed opinion. I do that a lto. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just throwing out a data point. Refrigeration allows for the transportation and storage for a greater distance and time. You and your neighbors don't have to have a milk cow and a dozen chickens if you want fresh milk and eggs. Personally, I think capital gains taxes are one of the biggest impediment to small farmers getting land. There are LOTS of old land owners (farmers) who are retired with paid off land. They might be willing to sell their land to a young farmer but they don't want to pay the capital gains tax that can be avoided by dying and letting their kids inherit the land with a stepped up basis. So they rent it out and the young farmer never gets to build his own land base. Grandpa bought 100 acres of land for $50/acre. Now it's worth $10,000/acre. Do you collect $300+/- per acre rent and pay a little income tax every year, or do you sell that land for $1,000,000 and pay tax on the $9,950 / ac difference? To your former point, I was refering to the base calories found in grains. The ability to corn feed cattle and poultry is a side benefit to that. Dairy farming could be distributed in the absence of refrigeration, but the grain required to feed I think is the larger driver. I am totally talking out of my ass here. Just my uninformed opinion. I do that a lto. Most, maybe not all, old farmers can avoid the estate "death" tax with careful estate planning. (Fed. exemption is $11 mil. -- x2 if married, IIRC. Although I think there may be a sunset in the Trump tax cuts, and each state has its own policy.) |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:02:14 PM EDT
[#38]
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I'm surrounded by National Forest. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:03:56 PM EDT
[#39]
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I can’t wait until they move in and rub elbows with all the rednecks in Ocala. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:13:17 PM EDT
[#40]
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I was just thinking about this recently...my wife and I earn a decent household income as employees for someone else but I was wondering how much land would I need to farm to continue with the exact same lifestyle we currently enjoy. For example, if a husband and wife each work for a company as employees earning $100k/yr in gross compensation (say $50k each, and that includes their wages and benefits), how much land would they need say farming corn or soybeans to equal that income and the lifestyle it offered? Researching this I found a recent Article in Corn and Soybean digest suggesting that a 1,000 acre farm will produce income equal to just part-time work. And if you look to livestock for your income instead of corn/soy, then found some comments from ranchers like this: |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:21:34 PM EDT
[#41]
My little country retreat is 25 miles from the nearest drug store or grocery. But it's nothing new, it was originally developed in the 70s as an escape for people from South Florida after the Liberty City riots got 7 lawyers thinking about such things. We have NRA rifle, pistol, trap and skeet ranges, an air strip, stables, community lodge with pool, tennis courts and exercise room. 50 miles of horse trails a couple of thousand acres of hunting land and a herd of black angus. The only thing that has changed recently is that more people are living here year round instead of just coming up for weekends or vacations.
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:22:59 PM EDT
[#42]
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Watching a lot of farming vids on YouTube, it seems that a lot of people are making good money with smallish acreage (10-100)….but most of them seem to be growing gourmet stuff for restaurants (microgreens, ducks, free-range forest pigs, etc)…..not corn or wheat or cows like ye "classic" farmer. Yes, there's money to be made if you're farming close enough to the city |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:28:13 PM EDT
[#43]
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Do they mention their day job in town, or that the wife is a nurse or school teacher with great healthcare benefits for the whole family? Yes, there's money to be made if you're farming close enough to the city |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:32:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Finite amount of land, ever increasing number of people who are living longer.
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:36:00 PM EDT
[#45]
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I'd actually believe the primary reason white collar employees don't mostly telecommute from the country more has less to do with commuting options and more to do with lack of reliable broadband internet connectivity. The only "broadband" much of rural America has access to is satellite internet, which is abysmal for anything other than doing AOL e-mail. And good luck getting a good 4G wireless cell provider signal in much of America's rural parts. I'm only 15-20 miles from three cities of 10k-20k people and we barely get a 3G signal at our hobby farm. The deeper you go into rural America, the worse the internet options. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Yup. It's definitely happening. One obstacle though is distance. I don't think the urban overlords are interested in being more than two or three hours away from a major urban center. I'm on the very edge of it Upstate NY. Driverless cars will become mobile offices for executives as they commute. Time spent commuting will become valuable productive time rather that wasted time in the day. In fact, commuting time in a driverless office car will be considered the same as actually being in the office, in regards to productivity and hours spent in the working day. Once this becomes accepted, the length of the daily commute becomes immaterial and will then open up large areas of the far rural suburbs for consideration as bedroom communities or for "country living". I'm not hanging my hat on this idea, but if it comes to pass, I may have a chance of actually selling my place at more than a loss. The only "broadband" much of rural America has access to is satellite internet, which is abysmal for anything other than doing AOL e-mail. And good luck getting a good 4G wireless cell provider signal in much of America's rural parts. I'm only 15-20 miles from three cities of 10k-20k people and we barely get a 3G signal at our hobby farm. The deeper you go into rural America, the worse the internet options. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 10:36:59 PM EDT
[#46]
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Do they mention their day job in town, or that the wife is a nurse or school teacher with great healthcare benefits for the whole family? Yes, there's money to be made if you're farming close enough to the city My guess is you're only getting part of the details. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 11:01:37 PM EDT
[#47]
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Commercial refrigeration is a bit over 100 years old. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 11:23:34 PM EDT
[#48]
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100 years ago most of rural America did not have electric service. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Commercial refrigeration is a bit over 100 years old. I also said, "commercial." |
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