Quoted:


 That memo doesn't have a date on it.

The Puerto Rican suit REALLY sounds like they paid the guy off.  Since his name is public, presumably some bright spark reporter/guntuber is gonna write off a PR vacay and swing around to interview him.  Will be very interesting what he says - or doesn't say, from behind the wheel of his new Ferrari.

I would be delighted if SIG could demonstrate that all the AD/ND reports were with a particular brand of holster, and everyone should update to this improved model of holster that will solve the issue, and then the problems just go away.  It really sounds as if they can't do that.

Lazy, if you would, transport yourself back to 1989, but w/ your current expertise in safety engineering.  With Glock Leg becoming prevalent at the time, would that issue be acceptable by modern safety standards?

Quoted:


If they just made it with gen 4/5 mag releases...

Quoted:


 That memo doesn't have a date on it.

The Puerto Rican suit REALLY sounds like they paid the guy off.  Since his name is public, presumably some bright spark reporter/guntuber is gonna write off a PR vacay and swing around to interview him.  Will be very interesting what he says - or doesn't say, from behind the wheel of his new Ferrari.

I would be delighted if SIG could demonstrate that all the AD/ND reports were with a particular brand of holster, and everyone should update to this improved model of holster that will solve the issue, and then the problems just go away.  It really sounds as if they can't do that.

Lazy, if you would, transport yourself back to 1989, but w/ your current expertise in safety engineering.  With Glock Leg becoming prevalent at the time, would that issue be acceptable by modern safety standards?

Quoted:


No way.

Standing behind a product mired in controversy is one thing, but using your media platforms to publicly call out a cop with his full name is some seriously trashy, low character conduct.

If THAT is how Sig is going to do business, in conjunction with their other actions in the last week or so, I might be done with them entirely. I've been critical of the P320 for a while, but I have a few other Sig firearms and optics, they've been good, and I'd normally consider buying more.

But if Sig is going to embrace truly scummy business practices like this, I won't be shopping their catalog anymore.

Quoted:

They absolutely will go petty targeting anyone for anything. Doxxing is something they've done in the past.

Even to arfcom-ers. @03RN

Quoted:


I wish I could find that thread

Quoted:


I wish I could find that thread

Quoted:


What’s the story?

Quoted:


If they just made it with gen 4/5 mag releases...

Quoted:


I was working pt at a gunshop and after posting in GD complaining that sig couldn't keep our rental guns working sig called my manager.

I don't even think I was that harsh. My manager sided with me and we laughed about it.

Quoted:

That’s fucked up.

Quoted:



1989 - the stage
I was in 1989, and remember that.  At the time, I wasn't really an Engineer though, and still thought girls were icky.  That changed real quick in late 1989, and so again - I wasn't spending a lot of time paying attention.  
Personally, I've always been spotty on Glock's trigger and concept, and consider the DA/SA mode more appropriate.  And still do.  As to LEO usage, Honestly - I think .357 Magnum revolvers should still be standard issue for most cops.  High cap is for suppressive fire spray and pray, and where wounds of enemy combatants is just as good - is a military concept in harms way.  Not the same ethos as a civilian neighborhood surrounded by innocence's, and the perp may be threatening the innocent.  .357 is for killing the guy RFN - in one shot.  And only one shot, vs spraying the whole civilian filled neighborhood.  Would a Glock 17 have made the difference in the Miami shootout?  Nope.  Honestly, I think it would have been a non-item of an encounter in fact, if Hanlon hadn't lost his .357 from the crash, where he instead had to rely on his less effect .38 backup.   Would a Glock 19 have made the difference in the LA Assault Rifle Bank Heist?  Nope.  Look up .357 mag stats, i's a Hell of a round.  "When we used to shoot bad guys with the .357, they died right there.  Now, they go to the hospital" -(Cop friend one day)

Glock
As to Glock - I don't own a Glock.

P99
I own a P99, which is a Glock 19 with better ergonomics, better magazine release, better aesthetics, and most importantly, the ability (at my discretion) to be a DA/SA pistol - which I still think is actually the better design for general issue.  

The path of 1989
Glock won because it a great military pistol (which it is), cheap, and most importantly they were able to convince the market (and IDPA/USPSCA) that a single action (ish) trigger without a safety was fine.  I'm amazed they were able to achieve that, but now everything thinks it's fine.  In 1989, everyone most certainly did not think that was fine.  But they convinced the Austrian Army and the US Police force, and then Hollywood with their amazing (and it really was amazing) next generation technology.  That, and the Miami shootout basically put Glock on the Map as THE GUN WE NEED (which it so very wasn't).   If you read Glock - The Story of Americas Handgun (GREAT BOOK btw, a very good business development book as well), and recall at the time, Glock did basically what I suspect SIG has been doing.  Stripper parties and knowing exactly how to work their procurement target demo - along with making sure to be the lowest price, to win that contract.  That, and their main competition, S&W, was overpriced and lost their edge and were so very yesterday.  And then rely on winning the contract to keep the lights on, and that WIN card to sell the same product to civy and other markets at big premium.  These guns are overpriced compared to their actual manufacturing cost.  Glock made BANK, and frankly, their ethos at the time, was little better than what we see of SIG's ethos now.  With, irony of irony's, Glock being what S&W was back in 1989 - as an established overpriced mainstay that's gotten arrogant.  Pretty close mirror in fact; Glock pulled plenty of shit back in the day; much like I think SIG has been doing.  Read the book, it's pretty informative.

Most of the Glock Leg, that I was aware of, wasn't really that much worse than 1911 Leg, and wasn't a lot of controversy that yes, it really was user error.  A user error that sticking with a DA/SA model or something with a manual safety would have mitigated, IMHO.  At the time, Gaston Glock - realizing the safety hurdles he had to overcome, was pretty thoughtful about avoiding the whole "don't just go off on your own, or when dropped" concept, and got that right.  Others, behind him, have half-assed that now, since the concept is no longer exotic, but accepted - so they didn't have to try as hard.  And look at that, guns going off on their own - by shoddy parts combined with some design differences.  Differences I suspect that had more to do with Intellectual Property, than what actually was the best idea.  And now, here we are.  Just my own opinion.

Smith and Wesson
[added] the funniest irony of all of that, is if you don't agree and don't want the P99 (your loss); then the best one in that class to actually spend the most time to look at for the last few years - is actually the Smith & Wesson M&P of all things, bring us all the way full circle - which is funny as shit.  The ones who blew it SooooOOOooooooo BAD in the 1980s and 1990s, Which put Glock and thr Glock-design concept on the map, and everyone has forgotten about, are actually probably the best units at the best price for the last several years.   We'll see about Ruger, too soon.  

Not everyone is going to agree with my above commentary and thoughts.  That's cool.

Quoted:

In general I agree….unless it’s a case where it is 100% proven a frivolous lawsuit. Like video of him finger fucking the gun then trying to get a payday.

To be clear….I’m not saying that’s the case here….but in general I’m good with a company punching back against legit frivolous lawsuits.

Quoted:
The most interesting line to me is claiming that he "admitted that his pistol had no defects and does not discharge without a trigger pull". My legalese is a bit rusty, but unless he's some kind of gun engineer with all the bona fides, I'm not sure he's qualified to state that his gun has no defects. I guess he could admit that he made that shit up relevant to the case though.

Quoted:

That’s fucked up.

Quoted:



/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Thats_true-729.gif


First Sig I ever purchased.

Quoted:
2 more weeks.

Quoted:


If I already didn’t have a m17 and two 18’s I would hop on this deal!

Quoted:


Meh, I own glocks, staccatos, fn and others.  I am not emotionally attached to any brand, I enjoy shooting all guns.

Quoted:


The Glock issues of the '80s and '90s don't fit today's scenario at all.

When Glock showed up, it replaced DA/SA autos and DA revolvers, and there was no institutional knowledge or industry support for mass fielding of striker guns without manual safeties. The holsters fielded at that time were made of unsuitable materials (soft nylon and leather) and had design features with bad interactions (like thumb straps).

The other problem with the Glock comparison is, the AD/ND events were happening when people were actively handling the firearms, often transitioning into or out of the holster.

In the case of these P320s, neither of these factors are true. We have decades of institutional knowledge, agencies and militaries are fielding hard shell holsters appropriate for striker guns, and these P320s are discharging while fully holstered, often in cases where nobody is actively handling the firearms.

The difference is so significant, it's not really comparable.

Quoted:



Hell
The Springfield XD don't fire when dropped...

AND you get grip zone