Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 4:56:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Bizarre and arbitrary rules like this have absolutely no basis in Jesus Christ. They are about controlling people (see the BITE model).

It's anathematic to the life, the example, and the teaching of (the real) Jesus Christ who:

1 - Drank (alcoholic) wine.

2 - Celebrated Passover and other Jewish holidays which involved wine.

3 - Never condemned anyone for the simple and very common act of drinking wine.

4 - Commanded others (and all) to partake of bread and wine in his memory at the last supper.

5 - Performed a miracle (hist first) at a wedding in Cana, where he turned a LOT of water into a LOT of wine.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:02:11 PM EDT
[#2]
That Utah crap sounds nasty.

Now Cheerwine is something that needs to go nationwide instead.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:03:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That Utah crap sounds nasty.

Now Cheerwine is something that needs to go nationwide instead.
View Quote


Along with Franks Black Cherry Wishniak.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:05:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Bizarre and arbitrary rules like this have absolutely no basis in Jesus Christ. They are about controlling people (see the BITE model).

It's anathematic to the life, the example, and the teaching of (the real) Jesus Christ who:

1 - Drank (alcoholic) wine.

2 - Celebrated Passover and other Jewish holidays which involved wine.

3 - Never condemned anyone for the simple and very common act of drinking wine.

4 - Commanded others (and all) to partake of bread and wine in his memory at the last supper.

5 - Performed a miracle (hist first) at a wedding in Cana, where he turned a LOT of water into a LOT of wine.
View Quote


The most Christian aspect of Mormonism is the name.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:10:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought Mormons avoided caffeine too?

Kharn

I thought my wife's rules were tough.
Attachment Attached File


Kharn
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:19:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


So sorta like Islam and alcohol.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:22:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Bizarre and arbitrary rules like this have absolutely no basis in Jesus Christ. They are about controlling people (see the BITE model).

It's anathematic to the life, the example, and the teaching of (the real) Jesus Christ who:

1 - Drank (alcoholic) wine.

2 - Celebrated Passover and other Jewish holidays which involved wine.

3 - Never condemned anyone for the simple and very common act of drinking wine.

4 - Commanded others (and all) to partake of bread and wine in his memory at the last supper.

5 - Performed a miracle (hist first) at a wedding in Cana, where he turned a LOT of water into a LOT of wine.
View Quote


Yeah Mormons might as well have authored the BITE model as doctrine. They aren’t the only ones by far but the examples are endless.

Growing up in the church I was taught at home and in Sunday school that Jesus did NOT drink alcohol and when the Bible says wine it means grape juice.

Which is an impossibility before refrigeration and pasteurization.  

But that didn’t stop Molly Mormon Karen moms from protecting their sweet little children from contradictions in doctrine all through the 80’s.

Some apologist Mormons will call me a liar again for my own life experience or blame it on the individual members but church leadership did nothing for decades to disabuse the “culture” of this myth.

Still haven’t that I’m aware of.

Some of these kids grow up in a Disney reality.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:31:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah it’s more arbitrary and capricious than that.

The word of wisdom forbids hot drinks alcohol and tobacco, excessive meat consumption (ignored) and expressly allows beer (which is ignored and forbidden)

Joseph Smith drank coffee, alcohol and smoked cigars daily until he died. (From a bullet)

Brigham young had a whisky distillery.

But some orthodox Mormons for a time wouldn’t even eat hot soup.

But they would drink “Mormon tea” which was ephedra.

It wasn’t really a commandment until prohibition- and when Mormons disobeyed instructions from their prophet and voted to repeal prohibition en masse…they made adherence to the word of wisdom into a qualifier for temple attendance and as a result, heaven

Currently it means coffee and tea, alcohol and tobacco, and any drug boomers think is bad.

Mormons through the 2000’s argued about if it banned caffeine with no clarification from leadership. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy and a huge helping of virtue signaling.

Caffeinated drinks were not sold in BYU campus until somewhere in the 20-teens.

Then an apostle gave a nod to Diet Coke in a smirking reference during a conference talk.

By this time most average Mormons were drinking caffeinated soda that their parents forbid during. The 80’s anyway and many Mormon moms had huge Diet Cokes daily.

So where does it stand today?  

-Monster energy drink? Fine
-64 Oz dirty Diet Coke? Fine
-Hot coffee?  Forbidden devil bean juice
-Hot tea? Forbidden
-iced coffee? Forbidden devil bean juice. It’s a hot drink. LOL
-Iced tea? Also forbidden
-hot macha(sp?) tea in Peru? Allowed
-herbal tea? No problem
-decaf coffee? Forbidden
-hot chocolate? Totally good!
-alcohol? Forbidden in any form
-beer? Expressly allowed but forbidden
-weed? Forbidden even where legal unless a doctor says so and still culturally frowned upon for legitimate uses.
-opiate or Xanax addiction? Rampant in Utah but a doc signed off so you’re good.


Here come the Mormons to tell me I’m “distorting the truth”.

This is lived experience 45 years in the heart of Mormonism.  42 of those as a practicing orthodox Mormon who did not drink coffee but downed Mountain Dew.

Luckily genetics kept me thin, but I’m much healthier physically and otherwise since I pulled the eject handle.

I can “run and not be weary and walk and not faint” much better than I could when living the word of wisdom. So much for god cursing me for not obeying this “law of health”. LOL


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


I think it is hot drinks, not caffeine, that they avoid.

Some one knowledgeable will be along shortly, I am sure.
I thought it was caffeine too but I guess it's the temperature. My wife says the Mormon guys at work go through diet soda by the case


Yeah it’s more arbitrary and capricious than that.

The word of wisdom forbids hot drinks alcohol and tobacco, excessive meat consumption (ignored) and expressly allows beer (which is ignored and forbidden)

Joseph Smith drank coffee, alcohol and smoked cigars daily until he died. (From a bullet)

Brigham young had a whisky distillery.

But some orthodox Mormons for a time wouldn’t even eat hot soup.

But they would drink “Mormon tea” which was ephedra.

It wasn’t really a commandment until prohibition- and when Mormons disobeyed instructions from their prophet and voted to repeal prohibition en masse…they made adherence to the word of wisdom into a qualifier for temple attendance and as a result, heaven

Currently it means coffee and tea, alcohol and tobacco, and any drug boomers think is bad.

Mormons through the 2000’s argued about if it banned caffeine with no clarification from leadership. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy and a huge helping of virtue signaling.

Caffeinated drinks were not sold in BYU campus until somewhere in the 20-teens.

Then an apostle gave a nod to Diet Coke in a smirking reference during a conference talk.

By this time most average Mormons were drinking caffeinated soda that their parents forbid during. The 80’s anyway and many Mormon moms had huge Diet Cokes daily.

So where does it stand today?  

-Monster energy drink? Fine
-64 Oz dirty Diet Coke? Fine
-Hot coffee?  Forbidden devil bean juice
-Hot tea? Forbidden
-iced coffee? Forbidden devil bean juice. It’s a hot drink. LOL
-Iced tea? Also forbidden
-hot macha(sp?) tea in Peru? Allowed
-herbal tea? No problem
-decaf coffee? Forbidden
-hot chocolate? Totally good!
-alcohol? Forbidden in any form
-beer? Expressly allowed but forbidden
-weed? Forbidden even where legal unless a doctor says so and still culturally frowned upon for legitimate uses.
-opiate or Xanax addiction? Rampant in Utah but a doc signed off so you’re good.


Here come the Mormons to tell me I’m “distorting the truth”.

This is lived experience 45 years in the heart of Mormonism.  42 of those as a practicing orthodox Mormon who did not drink coffee but downed Mountain Dew.

Luckily genetics kept me thin, but I’m much healthier physically and otherwise since I pulled the eject handle.

I can “run and not be weary and walk and not faint” much better than I could when living the word of wisdom. So much for god cursing me for not obeying this “law of health”. LOL




Interesting.  I'm not a mormon and have really only been around mormons sporadically in my life.  I try to not be completely offensive in my interactions with people, so I try to understand what may be something that goes against their religion just so I don't offer them something that is forbidden in their culture.  Like if I'm out for dinner somewhere with co-workers during a work trip, I'm not going to offer to buy the mormon guy on the team a beer haha

I've never really been able to see a trend when it comes to what is allowed (drink wise) for mormons.  And now I understand why.. its just vague to the point of being almost complete nonsense.  I had always figured it was just basically no alcohol or caffeine, but I guess I'm not around them enough to see that sodas are good to go.  This just seems like one of those things that was kind of made up on the fly over a few hundred years and probably needs some sort of "delete all and start over" in the modern era.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:32:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Swig cookies are the shit. Best sugar cookies you can find. That said i avoid them. Damn things are trying to make me diabetic. The drinks are good but they dont have fresca
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:45:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Is this anything like the Laverne & Shirley milk and Pepsi drink?


Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:50:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is this anything like the Laverne & Shirley milk and Pepsi drink?
View Quote


SoldierBoy likes milk and Pepsi also.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:53:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah it’s more arbitrary and capricious than that.

The word of wisdom forbids hot drinks alcohol and tobacco, excessive meat consumption (ignored) and expressly allows beer (which is ignored and forbidden)

Joseph Smith drank coffee, alcohol and smoked cigars daily until he died. (From a bullet)

Brigham young had a whisky distillery.

But some orthodox Mormons for a time wouldn’t even eat hot soup.

But they would drink “Mormon tea” which was ephedra.

It wasn’t really a commandment until prohibition- and when Mormons disobeyed instructions from their prophet and voted to repeal prohibition en masse…they made adherence to the word of wisdom into a qualifier for temple attendance and as a result, heaven

Currently it means coffee and tea, alcohol and tobacco, and any drug boomers think is bad.

Mormons through the 2000’s argued about if it banned caffeine with no clarification from leadership. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy and a huge helping of virtue signaling.

Caffeinated drinks were not sold in BYU campus until somewhere in the 20-teens.

Then an apostle gave a nod to Diet Coke in a smirking reference during a conference talk.

By this time most average Mormons were drinking caffeinated soda that their parents forbid during. The 80’s anyway and many Mormon moms had huge Diet Cokes daily.

So where does it stand today?  

-Monster energy drink? Fine
-64 Oz dirty Diet Coke? Fine
-Hot coffee?  Forbidden devil bean juice
-Hot tea? Forbidden
-iced coffee? Forbidden devil bean juice. It’s a hot drink. LOL
-Iced tea? Also forbidden
-hot macha(sp?) tea in Peru? Allowed
-herbal tea? No problem
-decaf coffee? Forbidden
-hot chocolate? Totally good!
-alcohol? Forbidden in any form
-beer? Expressly allowed but forbidden
-weed? Forbidden even where legal unless a doctor says so and still culturally frowned upon for legitimate uses.
-opiate or Xanax addiction? Rampant in Utah but a doc signed off so you’re good.


Here come the Mormons to tell me I’m “distorting the truth”.

This is lived experience 45 years in the heart of Mormonism.  42 of those as a practicing orthodox Mormon who did not drink coffee but downed Mountain Dew.

Luckily genetics kept me thin, but I’m much healthier physically and otherwise since I pulled the eject handle.

I can “run and not be weary and walk and not faint” much better than I could when living the word of wisdom. So much for god cursing me for not obeying this “law of health”. LOL



View Quote



Could you expound a little bit on how the word of wisdom allows beer?

Genuinely curious. Never read through it.

One of my best friends is LDS. Back in high school the amount of soda consumed at his LAN parties was absurd. Never jived to me with the rest of their rules.

Fwiw his dad drank beer. Kept it in the garage. Married into the church and I always got the impression he didn't really believe all that hard. Maybe he just knew better than the others did lol
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:54:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Swig cookies are the shit. Best sugar cookies you can find. That said i avoid them. Damn things are trying to make me diabetic. The drinks are good but they dont have fresca
View Quote


Heresy!

Crumbl sugar cookies are way better...and consequently the only cookie worth getting at Crumbl.

Oh, and no one has connected the dots yet?

The Miller empire was built on cars and entertainment...can't get to your entertainment without a car right?

Only problem is that cars and entertainment generally requires some disposable income.

They've now shifted heavily towards Healthcare, housing and fattening drinks.

All of which are subsidized by the .Gov.

Get the 'beetus from too much dirty soda? Go to an LHM owned hospital.



Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:00:23 PM EDT
[#14]
creme?..looks gross
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:01:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah it’s more arbitrary and capricious than that.

The word of wisdom forbids hot drinks alcohol and tobacco, excessive meat consumption (ignored) and expressly allows beer (which is ignored and forbidden)

Joseph Smith drank coffee, alcohol and smoked cigars daily until he died. (From a bullet)

Brigham young had a whisky distillery.

But some orthodox Mormons for a time wouldn’t even eat hot soup.

But they would drink “Mormon tea” which was ephedra.

It wasn’t really a commandment until prohibition- and when Mormons disobeyed instructions from their prophet and voted to repeal prohibition en masse…they made adherence to the word of wisdom into a qualifier for temple attendance and as a result, heaven

Currently it means coffee and tea, alcohol and tobacco, and any drug boomers think is bad.

Mormons through the 2000’s argued about if it banned caffeine with no clarification from leadership. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy and a huge helping of virtue signaling.

Caffeinated drinks were not sold in BYU campus until somewhere in the 20-teens.

Then an apostle gave a nod to Diet Coke in a smirking reference during a conference talk.

By this time most average Mormons were drinking caffeinated soda that their parents forbid during. The 80’s anyway and many Mormon moms had huge Diet Cokes daily.

So where does it stand today?  

-Monster energy drink? Fine
-64 Oz dirty Diet Coke? Fine
-Hot coffee?  Forbidden devil bean juice
-Hot tea? Forbidden
-iced coffee? Forbidden devil bean juice. It’s a hot drink. LOL
-Iced tea? Also forbidden
-hot macha(sp?) tea in Peru? Allowed
-herbal tea? No problem
-decaf coffee? Forbidden
-hot chocolate? Totally good!
-alcohol? Forbidden in any form
-beer? Expressly allowed but forbidden
-weed? Forbidden even where legal unless a doctor says so and still culturally frowned upon for legitimate uses.
-opiate or Xanax addiction? Rampant in Utah but a doc signed off so you’re good.


Here come the Mormons to tell me I’m “distorting the truth”.

This is lived experience 45 years in the heart of Mormonism.  42 of those as a practicing orthodox Mormon who did not drink coffee but downed Mountain Dew.

Luckily genetics kept me thin, but I’m much healthier physically and otherwise since I pulled the eject handle.

I can “run and not be weary and walk and not faint” much better than I could when living the word of wisdom. So much for god cursing me for not obeying this “law of health”. LOL



View Quote

With a rule set like that, it makes me think the NFA laws were written by Mormons.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:06:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Could you expound a little bit on how the word of wisdom allows beer?

Genuinely curious. Never read through it.

One of my best friends is LDS. Back in high school the amount of soda consumed at his LAN parties was absurd. Never jived to me with the rest of their rules.

Fwiw his dad drank beer. Kept it in the garage. Married into the church and I always got the impression he didn't really believe all that hard. Maybe he just knew better than the others did lol
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Yeah it’s more arbitrary and capricious than that.

The word of wisdom forbids hot drinks alcohol and tobacco, excessive meat consumption (ignored) and expressly allows beer (which is ignored and forbidden)

Joseph Smith drank coffee, alcohol and smoked cigars daily until he died. (From a bullet)

Brigham young had a whisky distillery.

But some orthodox Mormons for a time wouldn’t even eat hot soup.

But they would drink “Mormon tea” which was ephedra.

It wasn’t really a commandment until prohibition- and when Mormons disobeyed instructions from their prophet and voted to repeal prohibition en masse…they made adherence to the word of wisdom into a qualifier for temple attendance and as a result, heaven

Currently it means coffee and tea, alcohol and tobacco, and any drug boomers think is bad.

Mormons through the 2000’s argued about if it banned caffeine with no clarification from leadership. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy and a huge helping of virtue signaling.

Caffeinated drinks were not sold in BYU campus until somewhere in the 20-teens.

Then an apostle gave a nod to Diet Coke in a smirking reference during a conference talk.

By this time most average Mormons were drinking caffeinated soda that their parents forbid during. The 80’s anyway and many Mormon moms had huge Diet Cokes daily.

So where does it stand today?  

-Monster energy drink? Fine
-64 Oz dirty Diet Coke? Fine
-Hot coffee?  Forbidden devil bean juice
-Hot tea? Forbidden
-iced coffee? Forbidden devil bean juice. It’s a hot drink. LOL
-Iced tea? Also forbidden
-hot macha(sp?) tea in Peru? Allowed
-herbal tea? No problem
-decaf coffee? Forbidden
-hot chocolate? Totally good!
-alcohol? Forbidden in any form
-beer? Expressly allowed but forbidden
-weed? Forbidden even where legal unless a doctor says so and still culturally frowned upon for legitimate uses.
-opiate or Xanax addiction? Rampant in Utah but a doc signed off so you’re good.


Here come the Mormons to tell me I’m “distorting the truth”.

This is lived experience 45 years in the heart of Mormonism.  42 of those as a practicing orthodox Mormon who did not drink coffee but downed Mountain Dew.

Luckily genetics kept me thin, but I’m much healthier physically and otherwise since I pulled the eject handle.

I can “run and not be weary and walk and not faint” much better than I could when living the word of wisdom. So much for god cursing me for not obeying this “law of health”. LOL






Could you expound a little bit on how the word of wisdom allows beer?

Genuinely curious. Never read through it.

One of my best friends is LDS. Back in high school the amount of soda consumed at his LAN parties was absurd. Never jived to me with the rest of their rules.

Fwiw his dad drank beer. Kept it in the garage. Married into the church and I always got the impression he didn't really believe all that hard. Maybe he just knew better than the others did lol


The scripture counsels against "strong drinks", which at the time was construed to be hard liquor.  

Not drinking beer and any alcoholic beverage became a commandment from Heber J. Grant at around Prohibition.  The scripture itself (Doctrine and Covenants 89) specifically states that the contents therein are not by commandment or constraint, but a later prophet (Grant) pretty much made certain parts commandments.  

I find it interesting that there have been no amendments to the Doctrine and Covenants to override Section 89's verbiage and make it an actual commandment.  
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:07:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The scripture counsels against "strong drinks", which at the time was construed to be hard liquor.  

Not drinking beer and any alcoholic beverage became a commandment from Heber J. Grant at around Prohibition.  The scripture itself (Doctrine and Covenants 89) specifically states that the contents therein are not by commandment or constraint, but a later prophet (Grant) pretty much made certain parts commandments.  

I find it interesting that there have been no amendments to the Doctrine and Covenants to override Section 89's verbiage and make it an actual commandment.  
View Quote


Interesting, thanks
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:19:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is this anything like the Laverne & Shirley milk and Pepsi drink?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/91/79/c59179fecbeb3efc520569bb0abdfb50.jpg
View Quote


Holy shit, I knew I remembered this from somewhere!  

Thank you!  

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:20:09 PM EDT
[#19]
There is a swig down the street from my house, it’s pretty good but it’s like buying a soda for the price of a Starbucks.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:24:04 PM EDT
[#20]
I am a half timer in St. George and have always wondered what goes on at Swig when I see the long lines across the street from Dixie Wash. Now I know..
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:32:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Polygamous mountain Jews doing 3.2% shit.


Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:44:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The scripture counsels against "strong drinks", which at the time was construed to be hard liquor.  

Not drinking beer and any alcoholic beverage became a commandment from Heber J. Grant at around Prohibition.  The scripture itself (Doctrine and Covenants 89) specifically states that the contents therein are not by commandment or constraint, but a later prophet (Grant) pretty much made certain parts commandments.  

I find it interesting that there have been no amendments to the Doctrine and Covenants to override Section 89's verbiage and make it an actual commandment.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The scripture counsels against "strong drinks", which at the time was construed to be hard liquor.  

Not drinking beer and any alcoholic beverage became a commandment from Heber J. Grant at around Prohibition.  The scripture itself (Doctrine and Covenants 89) specifically states that the contents therein are not by commandment or constraint, but a later prophet (Grant) pretty much made certain parts commandments.  

I find it interesting that there have been no amendments to the Doctrine and Covenants to override Section 89's verbiage and make it an actual commandment.  


Looking st the actual text, I think it takes some creating reading and assumption to arrive at the conclusion that beer is permissible per the actual language of the scripture.

Section 89

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.


So neither wine or strong drink are good, the exception being homemade wine used exclusively for sacrament.

As most people would put wine and beer in the same category of alcohol content, how is beer okay?
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 7:14:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Looking st the actual text, I think it takes some creating reading and assumption to arrive at the conclusion that beer is permissible per the actual language of the scripture.

Section 89



So neither wine or strong drink are good, the exception being homemade wine used exclusively for sacrament.

As most people would put wine and beer in the same category of alcohol content, how is beer okay?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


The scripture counsels against "strong drinks", which at the time was construed to be hard liquor.  

Not drinking beer and any alcoholic beverage became a commandment from Heber J. Grant at around Prohibition.  The scripture itself (Doctrine and Covenants 89) specifically states that the contents therein are not by commandment or constraint, but a later prophet (Grant) pretty much made certain parts commandments.  

I find it interesting that there have been no amendments to the Doctrine and Covenants to override Section 89's verbiage and make it an actual commandment.  


Looking st the actual text, I think it takes some creating reading and assumption to arrive at the conclusion that beer is permissible per the actual language of the scripture.

Section 89

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.


So neither wine or strong drink are good, the exception being homemade wine used exclusively for sacrament.

As most people would put wine and beer in the same category of alcohol content, how is beer okay?

Well, what if it doesn't have a  "warning, strong beer" sticker on it?

Kharn
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 7:41:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Looking st the actual text, I think it takes some creating reading and assumption to arrive at the conclusion that beer is permissible per the actual language of the scripture.

Section 89



So neither wine or strong drink are good, the exception being homemade wine used exclusively for sacrament.

As most people would put wine and beer in the same category of alcohol content, how is beer okay?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


The scripture counsels against "strong drinks", which at the time was construed to be hard liquor.  

Not drinking beer and any alcoholic beverage became a commandment from Heber J. Grant at around Prohibition.  The scripture itself (Doctrine and Covenants 89) specifically states that the contents therein are not by commandment or constraint, but a later prophet (Grant) pretty much made certain parts commandments.  

I find it interesting that there have been no amendments to the Doctrine and Covenants to override Section 89's verbiage and make it an actual commandment.  


Looking st the actual text, I think it takes some creating reading and assumption to arrive at the conclusion that beer is permissible per the actual language of the scripture.

Section 89

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.


So neither wine or strong drink are good, the exception being homemade wine used exclusively for sacrament.

As most people would put wine and beer in the same category of alcohol content, how is beer okay?



Ok let me correct that slightly. It ALSO allows wine of your own make. LOL

If you read a little further to verse 17 we get beer.

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Mild barley drinks = beer.

But if that’s a stretch let’s look at historical context.

Even from the most disrespected (by me for its obvious bias and straining at gnats to swallow camels) captain kangaroo apologist website available… Fairmormon (or whatever they call themselves these days)

“"Strong drink" was initially interpreted as hard liquor, and did not include beer or lightly fermented wine”

Link for citation and apologetics of how they got to the current definition.


Now I don’t expect a modern Mormon to even know how to make beer but it was widely accepted that mild barely drinks = beer among early Mormons.

Lots of breweries and even home brew beer recipes in the first relief society cookbooks.

Also the word of wisdom would have saved the health of a lot more saints had God elected to teach the prophet germ theory or just say “boil your drinking water” and spared them dying of cholera and dysentery by the dozens.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 7:42:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Looking st the actual text, I think it takes some creating reading and assumption to arrive at the conclusion that beer is permissible per the actual language of the scripture.

Section 89



So neither wine or strong drink are good, the exception being homemade wine used exclusively for sacrament.

As most people would put wine and beer in the same category of alcohol content, how is beer okay?
View Quote


On average, wine has about twice the alcohol content of beer.  

Link Posted: 11/25/2022 8:42:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


On average, wine has about twice the alcohol content of beer.  

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Looking st the actual text, I think it takes some creating reading and assumption to arrive at the conclusion that beer is permissible per the actual language of the scripture.

Section 89



So neither wine or strong drink are good, the exception being homemade wine used exclusively for sacrament.

As most people would put wine and beer in the same category of alcohol content, how is beer okay?


On average, wine has about twice the alcohol content of beer.  



Good point.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 8:45:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
the fuck is dirty soda?
View Quote
It's different types of sodas or syrups mixed together.  And they sell cookies to go along with it.

I don't get it either but it's popular with the kids.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 8:55:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah it's more arbitrary and capricious than that.

The word of wisdom forbids hot drinks alcohol and tobacco, excessive meat consumption (ignored) and expressly allows beer (which is ignored and forbidden)

Joseph Smith drank coffee, alcohol and smoked cigars daily until he died. (From a bullet)

Brigham young had a whisky distillery.

But some orthodox Mormons for a time wouldn't even eat hot soup.

But they would drink "Mormon tea" which was ephedra.

View Quote
The WoW was generally voluntary health advice until the 1870s when it was emphasized more to create a distinction between Mormons and the Gentiles brought in by the railroad.  Even so most Mormons lived by its precepts before then, although many used tobacco and alcohol for "medicinal purposes only".  Most observers recognized that Mormon society was dry and sober when compared to the Union Pacific workers and the miners who followed them.

And beer contains alcohol, btw.  Which is expressly forbidden.  
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 10:00:04 PM EDT
[#29]
I’m reminded of the constitutional law debate between originalism and living constitution.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 10:08:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The WoW was generally voluntary health advice until the 1870s when it was emphasized more to create a distinction between Mormons and the Gentiles brought in by the railroad.  Even so most Mormons lived by its precepts before then, although many used tobacco and alcohol for "medicinal purposes only".  Most observers recognized that Mormon society was dry and sober when compared to the Union Pacific workers and the miners who followed them.

And beer contains alcohol, btw.  Which is expressly forbidden.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Yeah it's more arbitrary and capricious than that.

The word of wisdom forbids hot drinks alcohol and tobacco, excessive meat consumption (ignored) and expressly allows beer (which is ignored and forbidden)

Joseph Smith drank coffee, alcohol and smoked cigars daily until he died. (From a bullet)

Brigham young had a whisky distillery.

But some orthodox Mormons for a time wouldn't even eat hot soup.

But they would drink "Mormon tea" which was ephedra.

The WoW was generally voluntary health advice until the 1870s when it was emphasized more to create a distinction between Mormons and the Gentiles brought in by the railroad.  Even so most Mormons lived by its precepts before then, although many used tobacco and alcohol for "medicinal purposes only".  Most observers recognized that Mormon society was dry and sober when compared to the Union Pacific workers and the miners who followed them.

And beer contains alcohol, btw.  Which is expressly forbidden.  


Forbidden by the current leadership. Yes.

Forbidden by the word of wisdom as written in the canonized text?

Nope.

The word of wisdom does not contain the word “alcohol” at all. So just like caffeine NOT being the reason for hot drinks being banned, it is total conjecture to assume that alcohol is the reason for the prohibition on strong drinks.

See letter of the law Pharisee thinking works both ways. ??

It boils down to a “we say so” argument that happens to conflict with the canonized scripture.

Pick and choose or enforce the whole thing (like homemade wine and beer being fine)

Salvation is not denied to Mormons who eat too much meat (also prohibited). It’s not denied to Mormons who treat their body like trash and eat refined sugar for every meal.

It’s purely a virtue signal loyalty test and behavior control mechanism as it is enforced today.

It’s not doctrinally consistent with itself.

What is more likely?  A perfect God has established this mess in all its permutations or it’s just a 19th century fad that has been weaponized by control freaks that run a successful business… er church?

For those who are unfamiliar with Mormonism literally every point of their doctrine has holes like this you can drive a MRAP through. This is just a fun example.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 11:03:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top