User Panel
Honestly, you are not gaining a thing swapping a canoe for a two-seat kayak. You'll just get wetter and have less storage space.
I suggest you either rent a few times or buy something cheap off of Craigslist and sell it later when you start gaining an idea of what you want. Remember, look at those capacity numbers. Always get something with as much capacity as you can, the more capacity, the easier to paddle and drier you stay. |
|
how far from Madison Wisconsin are you? check out these guys, even their website is a good source. At the store they will let you try out some models on the lake.
https://www.rutabagashop.com/ |
|
Quoted: Don't try a Hobie Pedal drive kayak. It will ruin you for life on all other kayaks. I now own 2 Hobie PA14s, a Hobie Revo 13 and Revo 16, and a Wilderness Systems Radar 115 w/ pedal drive. The Hobies are amazing. View Quote They have...fins? I was looking at a HooDoo. Those have actual propellers vs fins. Is one drive system superior or is it the overall package that makes the Hobie superior? |
|
Peddle drives are a compromise. They add weight, generally are not very maneuverable, and don't draft as shallow. More shit to brake. That said, some fishermen love them for freeing up their hands to fish. Honestly I would probably pay the licensing fee and just stick a trolling motor on a canoe. I guess a peddle drive could give you a leg workout, but to me, kayaks and canoes are all about upper body. I used to paddle with several amputees. You would never know their disability when they were on the water.
Once upon a time, I would have maybe possibly said the Ocean Kayak Frenzy or Scrambler was the perfect fist kayak. The Frenzy was shorter, more playful and cheaper - the Scrambler was a better all around kayak. I think both are discontinued now. They have a cult following in the land based shark fishing community - so even when one shows up used, they don't last long (the shark fishing community will post ones they find nationally). That said, when I could buy a Frenzy for $250, it was damn hard to beat for the money (abet it was really a $500 kayak at the time). Even pre-covid the prices were spiking. I don't even know if OC even exists post pandemic - all the rotomold kayak companies took a hit - no materials and labor shortages, boom. There is defiantly a place in the world for 16-20' canoes. They are drying to paddle, if designed right can hold a shitload of camping gear. There is a reason they are the premier paddle based camping tool of choice. They just require a skill set to be used successfully. You have to paddle as a team. You have to know what to do, and communicate. They are a true joy when you can work together as a team. Starting out - avoid them like the fucking plague. That said, if I could get my wife to take classes with me - could easily be my boat of choice. |
|
Quoted: They have...fins? I was looking at a HooDoo. Those have actual propellers vs fins. Is one drive system superior or is it the overall package that makes the Hobie superior? View Quote A few years ago the hobie drive was far superior to the props available so we bought hobies. The prop drives might have got better. |
|
One of my most memorable paddles was on a stupid 10 surf ski (it was my 2nd or 3rd rental when I was getting started - still trying to decide what type of kayak I wanted). I started just south of a petrochemical plant south of Houston, and paddled into it. They maintained a wildlife buffer zone - nobody wants to live next to a petrochemical plant, so there was a fairly large "park" on its south side. I was paddling up a relatively small canal when I saw a few deer on the bank. The wind was at my back, so I just relaxed and "froze", letting the wind blow me up the canal. I went within about 20' of those deer, but I saw a few more a few hundred feet away - so I kept drifting. The large buck never saw me. I drifted while he decided to cross a footbridge. He gave me a wtf look when he was about 5' away from me - as I drifted right under him as he crossed the bridge. All in the middle of an oil refinery. Nature can be beautiful, even in the most unexpected places.
Right now I am outfitting a new (used) vehicle to help me paddle more. It's a toad. The best method for paddling down river solo. Tow a second vehicle to the take out, then drive to the put in. Unload your boat from the primary, paddle down to the toad - load up and go get your primary. Hook up the toad and drive home. Great when you don't want to depend on the charity of other's to set up a shuttle. Simpler than being part of text/forum/email groups that create trips with less than 1hr notice most of the time. Plus you don't have to deal with the group dynamics. We used to do this with white water groups - but now that I am more about churning out miles, well there are a lot fewer groups to plan things with. Oh, unless you have a short boat and a truck, or a boat trailer - the normal method of carrying a kayak/canoe is on a roof rack. For the love of God, if you carry on a roof rack use a front safety rope. Nothing quite like the feeling when you hear a pop, and see your boat flying into the air wondering if it is going to hit oncoming traffic or the car behind you. It happened to too many of my friends, including once when I was in the vehicle with them. We had 8 boats go airborne doing 70mph in central Mexico. What fun. The driver had a gutter mounted rack that failed. He had countless thousands of miles on that rig with boats on the roof- but shit happens. Mostly a joke - but he literally wrote the book on White Water Kayaking in Texas. I assume it is still the single best published resource on Texas rivers. While I am thinking of roof racks - I like T tracks. Roof racks are a bar mounted on a pylon. Kayaks are generally carried on edge, so they are like a pair of wedges. When you tighten your strap, you are pulling down on the kayak and those wedges are going to try to spread the bars apart. They will act like a crowbar to your roof. I watched a guy destroy the roof of his new (to him) Land Cruiser tightening down boat straps. His roof rack installer did not put in reinforcements under his headliner - or use a T-Track to spread the torque of the roof rack bars. |
|
Quoted: There is defiantly a place in the world for 16-20' canoes. They are drying to paddle, if designed right can hold a shitload of camping gear. There is a reason they are the premier paddle based camping tool of choice. They just require a skill set to be used successfully. You have to paddle as a team. You have to know what to do, and communicate. They are a true joy when you can work together as a team. Starting out - avoid them like the fucking plague. That said, if I could get my wife to take classes with me - could easily be my boat of choice. View Quote In Missouri, we paddle canoes from birth. With thousands of miles of clear-flowing Ozarks streams, a lot of us have spent countless hours and days on float trips. For years the ubiquitous 17-foot aluminium Grumann or Osage canoe was all you saw. A lot of the liveries switched to plastic Old Towns, etc but you still see a lot of aluminium. Nowadays kayaks are popular but “float trip” still equals canoe for most folks. |
|
I have an Alumacraft IIRC. For the most part, long out of production, but a livery near me would get a special order made every few years just to keep some in stock (special order - enough to fill an 18 wheeler). Hard to beat for weight, rigidity, price, and durability (they can be destroyed however). The Texas River Safari was last week - there is a class in it just for these relics of history. I got one for the race, but my partner bailed on me.
|
|
I’m a fan of Jackson kayak but have a wilderness system that is really nice as well. I replaced a few canoes with tandem kayaks at the park I work at and we’ve had a lot of good feedback since. I chose the Jackson Riveria T because there is less for people to mess up, just molded seats without cushions. It’s one of the reasons they are so popular with rental companies. I still find them to be very comfortable. If you’re set on going the tandem route I’d definitely suggest giving them a look. I do agree with others on considering solo boats though. You’ll get more storage/hauling space between 2 boats and a lot of other benefits. I was comfortably able to paddle a Jackson Coosa with gear for overnight camping. Even stood up in it in small rapids. I didn’t own the Coosa but paddling it made me sell my canoe and buy the very similar Jackson Cruise. Either way check FB marketplace or other local sales sites for a used kayak instead of buying new. I’ve saved hundreds on my kayaks/paddle boards doing that and most had seen little use.
|
|
We started with a tandem (Old Town). A couple of years later we bought a single (also Old Town) for when only one person wanted to go paddling. Eventually got another single. Now the tandem rarely gets used, even if we are both going paddling.
YMMV |
|
Check out a nucanoe frontier 12. There pretty easy to customize and could be easily takin from a two person to a single person kayak.
|
|
|
Jackson makes good (top of the line) stuff - but not sure what their production is like right now. They got the shit hammered out of them with Covid shortages. Hell, I think they may have even had a few staff/owner deaths. My first Sea Kayak was Wilderness Systems - even getting destroyed in shipping, it turned into a great boat (I learned fiberglass repair with it..., While I ordered it new, ended up paying salvage for it-it was considered totaled). Some of my favorite Sea Kayak designs were Wilderness Systems (abet no in hell I would fit into their Inuit inspired designs now, plus they are probably out of production by 25 years). Perception, Ocean Kayak, Hobbie (not for everyone, but top of the line for the people who like their designs), all made good/great sit on tops. There were other names that focused more on white water boats (such as Dagger). I am sure there are a few newer companies that are not coming to mind right now. Sea Kayaks are also another world, so will not even try to mention some of the manufacturer names. Hell, I can not even think of who made my current carbon fiber/kevlar one - but that is a small community of a lot of small manufacturers and composite manufacturers in China that market to smaller builders (I think my hull was laid by a Chinese company that does aerospace work). FWIW Wenonah makes some excellent composite canoes (not sure if they make plastic ones).
There are a lot of special purpose kayaks made by small companies that focus in their particular niche markets - you could not make an inclusive list of all of these. Good and great products, but just so many companies. Take Spensors - they make the best boats in the world - for one race. The top teams get new boats every couple years, most people use hand me downs that were repaired more times than the top competitors wanted to continue using. All total, I bet over 30 years they have only made a couple hundred of there custom boats. It took a year for them to even do some of the modifications to my Wenonah for the race. Sadly I have never finished getting all the necessary modifications done for it. It still needs a custom skirt sewed. Our polo boats - those have to be privately imported from Europe or Australia/New Zealand. Getting one over is not "hard". Getting a container was another matter. Normal method is to have someone flying back from Europe carry it as a "surf board". That does not work to outfit 3 teams (with matching boats) though. It was hard enough that we started making our own plugs (which are then used to produce molds) to manufacture them ourselves (but then found a way to do the import). |
|
Quoted: Okay, several people have tried to steer me away from 2-person kayaks. The one we used yesterday seemed just fine. What is the drawback to having a two person kayak? The rental we used had two seats in it and adjustable foot rests. The space between us was open which was perfect for our backpack or maybe a cooler View Quote If you're only going to be on extremely slow rivers, or calm lakes, sure it "seems just fine." Yet, all it takes is one rogue wave or unexpected log, and you're both in the water. The longer the boat, the less responsive it is to paddle input. Personally, the wife and I each have our own, and love finding new rivers, with a decent current to enjoy. Both on wilderness systems aspire 10.5' We've come across multiple instances where the river tightens, or there's debris in the river, and a quick maneuver is needed to avoid dumping the contents of the boat. On lakes, our boats have a retractable skeg, so we drop the skeg and they track extremely well across the lake, much more efficient. Twisty river? Pull the skep up and turn on a dime. Seats are fully adjustable and quick dry for long days. Dry hatches actually stay dry even in mild white water. That's the difference between cheap and tier 1. The cheap shit is uncomfortable for long days, no adjustments, dry hatches that are anything but dry. That being said, I have a cheap pelican that I added a new seat, some paddle holders, beer holders, and attached some dry bags. Made a cheap boat pretty tolerable for less $$ than the wilderness systems. Finally....if your marriage is healthy enough to sit in the same boat for hours on end, with total trust in each others movements....well you got yourself a good one! Mine never shuts up, even when I'm 200ft up river. lol |
|
One of the troubles with car top boats is the qualities that make it easy to get on and off the car are at odds with the qualities that make it function well in the water.
Longer , heavier Canoes and kayaks will paddle smoothly but are a bitch to get on the car. Mid size kayacks are easy on and off the car but aren't as good in the water especially if passengers are of any size. Some Kyack dealers in my area will have in water weekends that for a reasonable fee will let you try out a bunch of different boats and equipment. Usually will be free if you buy a boat. Paddle quality and fit/size /weight will be a night/day difference also. Light weight is generally good for a paddle but the carbon/graffite ones can be somewhat spendy. Life jackets for paddle use are cut different than general purpose life vest types . As with many other sports having the special purpose go fast equipment can make all the difference. The try before you buy in water workshops can answer many questions for you if you can find one |
|
Ex wife and I bought a set from Dick's Sporting Goods for a local lake we used them with. Stuffed them in the back of my truck to get them there. You know what, paddleing sucks. Get a motor as if I had to do it all over again a motor would have brought us both much fun.
|
|
Quoted: In Missouri, we paddle canoes from birth. With thousands of miles of clear-flowing Ozarks streams, a lot of us have spent countless hours and days on float trips. For years the ubiquitous 17-foot aluminium Grumann or Osage canoe was all you saw. A lot of the liveries switched to plastic Old Towns, etc but you still see a lot of aluminium. Nowadays kayaks are popular but “float trip” still equals canoe for most folks. View Quote Including many who do the mr340. https://rivermiles.com/mr340/ |
|
|
OP, you and the wife will be happier with 2 kayaks instead of a tandem.
|
|
My $.02
Buy two seperate kayaks. I chatted with a kayak dealer earlier in the year and he claims most of his customers sell their tandem after the first year or two. Sit in or sit on top is your preference. I bought a sit on top (Wilderness ride 135) years ago with the intention of overnight camping where you bring all your gear. It weighs 80 lbs and has a 500-550 lb capacity. It is fun and I enjoy it but it is a barge on the water and lacks maneuverability. Bought a sit in( Wilderness Aspire 105) for my teen daughter last year. Weighs around 50 lbs and has a capacity of 400 lbs. It also has a drop down skeg for tracking in wind/waves/flat water. She can run circles around me in it. It was highly recommended by a coworker that has the same model. I've gone on a few trips with a group online and the "serious" RECREATIONAL kayakers of that group have the following. Dagger axis 12 Jackson tupelo Wilderness pungo or tsunami Some have multiple kayaks for different subsets of kayaking. (Whitewater/fishing/touring/recreational. Transportation issues. I have a full size truck with a "bed extender" for hauling my 13' 6" over longer distances. Some use design specific kayak trailers or home converted utility trailers. Some have racks on top of their cars(I thought dealing with the bed extender was a pain, helping them get their kayaks on car roofs was a chore. Buy once and cry once. I've been on trips and watch others choices. Some struggle tremendously because they bought a cheap model with low capacity for their total weight and those cheap models typically have poor handling performance. Good luck on your decisions and happy paddling. |
|
Can't give you advice on what to buy.
I can tell you that when you buy one you'll like it, at first. Then, after you've used it awhile you'll find things you don't like and you'll read about other kayaks that you think will be better. I'm on my second fishing kayak and more than once I've thought about buying a 3rd with features I think I'd like better. |
|
Quoted: They have...fins? I was looking at a HooDoo. Those have actual propellers vs fins. Is one drive system superior or is it the overall package that makes the Hobie superior? View Quote Fins > Prop You know... if you want a lightweight kayak, go get the Hobie Passport. Or... find an older used Hobie pedal drive of any variety. If you NEED to stand and fish, Outback, Pro Angler Compass or Passport are all standable. |
|
View Quote Those folks are insane. I know several people who have done it, and I tell them so. |
|
Rent two singles. You’ve tried the tandem. Get a different experience. Try before you buy.
I’ve done both. The tandem isn’t bad, but my family prefers singles after trying the tandem. They tend to be faster, more maneuverable, and less work trying to coordinate strokes. Something with a retractable keel is good for better tracking. |
|
Summary of stuff I learned about this:
- go up wind first - check weather forecast - get fisherman's real time data on water temp, memorize the water temp survival chart, if you can't self rescue at this temp, don't go - get some wheels to strap on your boat so you aren't dragging it through 100 yards of goose shit at the park that looked easy on the internet map - floatation device needs to be worn, and it needs to not interfere with paddling - no matter how tired you are, the hardest part of the day is getting that big wet heavy fucker back on the roof, leave some strength for that (see goose shit drag comment above) - wrap your paddle with drip guards - check vehicle user manual for actual proper tie down points, do not skimp on tie downs |
|
I am late to the party but you have already had more than enough people tell you to avoid a tandem kayak.
Take their advice and get two boats. I personally prefer a touring kayak with a rudder over a recreational Walmart special. They track well in the wind and handle rough water better. Mine is a Wilderness Systems Tsunami 145. It is kind of a whale but is incredibly stable and will haul a metric ton of gear so it is great for kayak camping. |
|
Quoted: Summary of stuff I learned about this: - go up wind first - check weather forecast - get fisherman's real time data on water temp, memorize the water temp survival chart, if you can't self rescue at this temp, don't go - get some wheels to strap on your boat so you aren't dragging it through 100 yards of goose shit at the park that looked easy on the internet map - floatation device needs to be worn, and it needs to not interfere with paddling - no matter how tired you are, the hardest part of the day is getting that big wet heavy fucker back on the roof, leave some strength for that (see goose shit drag comment above) - wrap your paddle with drip guards - check vehicle user manual for actual proper tie down points, do not skimp on tie downs View Quote Wet hands blister easily... different people will tell you how to deal with that different ways. |
|
|
|
Quoted: Ex wife and I bought a set from Dick's Sporting Goods for a local lake we used them with. Stuffed them in the back of my truck to get them there. You know what, paddleing sucks. Get a motor as if I had to do it all over again a motor would have brought us both much fun. View Quote Dicks sporting goods?!?!? WTF?!? Why would you even consider an anti-American store like that! Attached File |
|
A kayak is like an automobile: different models designed for their intended purposes. So many designs each intended to perform best at task.
I was into long distance solo sea kayaking on The Great Lakes, so necessarily I chose touring kayaks able to handle rough water, and weeks of capacity for self contained travels. Still have 2 Current Designs and 2 Valley Canoe kayaks hanging from ceilings in garages. |
|
Crescent Crew.
Made in USA and super nice to paddle. Can be tandem or single. I like going out with my wife or my kids in it. I also take it out solo for fishing. Owned 10 kayaks in 6 years. It’s one of the better ones! Done. |
|
We started with a tandem Ocean kayak, an older version with only molded in seats. Wife wanted a single so we bought a new single person Ocean kayak and I use the tandem when we both go out. The single person has a built in cushioned seat. Very nice much more comfortable. I have used both for fishing on the ocean, usually less than a mile off shore. I have a trailer that will haul one of the kayaks and I can lash the second to the trailer as well.
I recently purchased a used Royak kayak, this is a long thin kayak, it doesn’t balance as well as the wider Ocean kayaks. I am still getting used to it. I have both carbon fiber and aluminum paddles, for me they are about the same but the carbon fiber paddle doesn’t oxidize in the saltwater. |
|
Quoted: I have no knowledge to add, but I do have a friend that has a super nice one setup to go fishing in spots you can't take a boat. It has a trolling motor and everything. Pretty sweet. I'm not sure on the weight but the one time I helped him carry it I swear it weighs like 300 lbs loaded up with all his gear. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/285899/kayak_jpeg-2416875.JPG View Quote |
|
Paddles have been mentioned...
I began with aluminum shaft plastic bladed paddles, then evolved to complete carbon fiber. More expensive, however, paddling 20+ miles a day the lighter weight carbon fiber was less wear and tear on the shoulders. (My preference was a carbon with 60 offset: less rotation of control hand.) Don't skimp on a good paddle. ETA. Paddle/demo before you purchase, whatever type kayak, or paddle. |
|
Anyone have experience with inflatable kayaks? We have a 30' cabin cruiser and I got the kids cheap inflatable kayaks (Intex) which they've been having fun with. I'd like to get a nicer inflatable for me or the wife to use with them.
|
|
Quoted: how far from Madison Wisconsin are you? check out these guys, even their website is a good source. At the store they will let you try out some models on the lake. https://www.rutabagashop.com/ View Quote About 40 miles due west of chiraq |
|
Quoted: Quoted: how far from Madison Wisconsin are you? check out these guys, even their website is a good source. At the store they will let you try out some models on the lake. https://www.rutabagashop.com/ About 40 miles due west of chiraq Here in northern MI some shops sponsor day/weekend long workshops, encouraging the test paddling of many models. Define the type of paddling you expect, then test paddle. A sleek, long distance touring kayak is designed for such: narrow, long with gear hauling capacity. A kayak designed for river/small lake usage will more than likely fit most folks needs. Skegs vs. rudders is a debate in itself. I enjoyed sea kayak touring for a dozen years. Went through a variety of kayaks until I found what met my criteria: an efficient narrow boat able to carry at least several weeks of supplies. I paddled canoes and kayaks extensively for years, so obviously have some learned experiences. |
|
Google local kayak shops and find out when one's having a demo day. Show up and try all of them.
On each one immediately test primary and secondary stability. Primary stability is how far it will lean over when you lean out, secondary is how far it will lean when you keep your torso vertical. Just do it in shallow water with the paddle as a support. Most of the time you'll find that even though it may feel tippy you can really lean much farther out than you'd think when you first get in. This translates into better maneuverability I like a narrow 14' for a general use kayak, beats a canoe every time for paddling, particularly in wind and waves. I've even managed class 4 rapids on one river trip. |
|
|
Quoted: Dicks sporting goods?!?!? WTF?!? Why would you even consider an anti-American store like that! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/doubleFacePalm-26.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Ex wife and I bought a set from Dick's Sporting Goods for a local lake we used them with. Stuffed them in the back of my truck to get them there. You know what, paddleing sucks. Get a motor as if I had to do it all over again a motor would have brought us both much fun. Dicks sporting goods?!?!? WTF?!? Why would you even consider an anti-American store like that! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/doubleFacePalm-26.jpg I got mine at Dicks too before they came out as antigun. Ih well, fuck em. |
|
Before I bought a kayak I visited a couple of places that had a lot of inventory and the ability to test them out. Seat comfort is important. If you aren’t comfortable, you won’t use it. And for a lot of reasons already mentioned, I concur on getting two boats. I’m in upstate NY, lots of ponds, lakes and slow rivers, and I like to hammock camp. I bought a Native Watercraft Ultimate; it’s a bit of a hybrid, as it’s got a completely open cockpit like a canoe. Very stable. Good luck and have fun!
|
|
Quoted: Wife and I usually rent a canoe but this time we went with a kayak and found it much easier so now we are looking to purchase one. What should we look for? What should we avoid? View Quote Try to find one that floats |
|
I have a friend that's a serial entrepreneur. He does quite well.
As a side business he had a fleet of 600 kayaks of various types for rental at a northern MI summer resort town. End of season he had some very good prices as not to have to pay for Winter storage fees. Bargains are out there... Kayaks are something one really needs to define their expected use, then test paddle as many as possible prior to purchase. |
|
Quoted: Stratos 12.5. Or Delta 12.10 These are tier 1 Kayaks One is poly, 1 is thermold They can hold bigger paddlers and are less tippy. Both would allow for gear for day trips etc. Do not buy a kayak made by pelican or bought from Costco. Basically, you would be paddling a port-o-potty. 1500-2000 bucks is what I would budget. Two person kayaks are terrible and completely negate the main purpose of a kayak… Maneuverability. Get a high angle paddle for river from Werner or aqua bond. Get a skirt from seals. Get a quality paddling PFD. Consider dry suit. Practice rolls and edging…. There you go… View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Slow rivers Stratos 12.5. Or Delta 12.10 These are tier 1 Kayaks One is poly, 1 is thermold They can hold bigger paddlers and are less tippy. Both would allow for gear for day trips etc. Do not buy a kayak made by pelican or bought from Costco. Basically, you would be paddling a port-o-potty. 1500-2000 bucks is what I would budget. Two person kayaks are terrible and completely negate the main purpose of a kayak… Maneuverability. Get a high angle paddle for river from Werner or aqua bond. Get a skirt from seals. Get a quality paddling PFD. Consider dry suit. Practice rolls and edging…. There you go… Dont own one, but asked the same question as OP and this is what I was told by a lady who is in a Kayak 3X a week. |
|
Quoted: OP, you and the wife will be happier with 2 kayaks instead of a tandem. View Quote Only thing I would add is 50' of paracord. Sometimes the difference between a happy wife on the ride home and one that wants to kill you. Same is true for small children. It makes for a kid that will kayak with you a second time. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.