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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:27:15 AM EDT
I realize that computers are pretty much just a shit ton of electrons moving back and forth, but tech like this still blows my mind. Cool animations as well.
 Seagate | "Just" a Hard Drive |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:46:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Too bad they always seem to fail.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:01:10 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:17:47 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm not an IT professional, but of the ~15 hard drives I've had in and out of PCs in my ~17 years of home personal computing, I've had two hard drive failures, both Seagate. Not a big dataset, but it's enough to keep me going with WD.
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:20:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noob5000000: I'm not an IT professional, but of the ~15 hard drives I've had in and out of PCs in my ~17 years of home personal computing, I've had two hard drive failures, both Seagate. Not a big dataset, but it's enough to keep me going with WD. No ocular scientists or peer reviewed studies You should just ignore your plain observations, you pleb |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:29:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Too bad they always seem to fail. and are loud as fuck, every seagate drive I have owned is loud. I have a bunch of WD black drives that are very quiet. |
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SGP
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:50:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RogueSpear2023: and are loud as fuck, every seagate drive I have owned is loud. That's how you know it's thinking. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:56:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Fly]
[#7]
Professional server admin here. There's only 3 magnetic drive manufacturers left - Seagate, WD, and Toshiba. And they all make good model drives, and shitty model drives.
Usually cheap consumer grade drivers tend to be a lot shittier, and enterprise grade drives generally better. But you never really know until you have a large batch of a certain model, and run them for 3-5 years. Anecdotal one-off reports are useless when it comes to considering drive reliability - "my Garbagemaster 87TB drive took a shit yesterday, fuck them and the horse they rode on" doesn't tell anyone anything useful. Backblaze (large cloud storage company) periodically publishes their internal studies of what drives have failed on them. And since they own more drives than damn near anyone, its actually gives you an idea of what's crap and what's not. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2023/ |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:08:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Brutal thread is brutal.
What happens inside my laptops, gaming PC's, phone, etc. is nothing short of magical science fiction. It's literally incredible. A century ago, we were still amazed by internal combustion engines. We were just getting our bearings in the sky with primitive flight. Ticker-tape and telephones were new tech. I've had a lot of computers over my more than half-century of life. Built some of them from parts. I have a degree in electronics. All of this is still magical to me. Awe-inspiring even, despite a failure rate that might make me back up shit I care about on other drives of some type. But, maybe that's perspective from having lived through it. Today's children are spoiled brats. Did your HD fail? Oh, snap...too bad you didn't back anything up. Lesson learned, hopefully? Regardless of manufacturer. |
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SGP
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:12:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: Brutal thread is brutal. What happens inside my laptops, gaming PC's, phone, etc. is nothing short of magical science fiction. It's literally incredible. A century ago, we were still amazed by internal combustion engines. We were just getting our bearings in the sky with primitive flight. Ticker-tape and telephones were new tech. I've had a lot of computers over my more than half-century of life. Built some of them from parts. I have a degree in electronics. All of this is still magical to me. Awe-inspiring even, despite a failure rate that might make me back up shit I care about on other drives of some type. But, maybe that's perspective from having lived through it. Today's children are spoiled brats. Did your HD fail? Oh, snap...too bad you didn't back anything up. Lesson learned, hopefully? Regardless of manufacturer. Also they have 24tb drives now. That's a pretty good reason to like them, I guess. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:15:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noob5000000: I'm not an IT professional, but of the ~15 hard drives I've had in and out of PCs in my ~17 years of home personal computing, I've had two hard drive failures, both Seagate. Not a big dataset, but it's enough to keep me going with WD. Every Seagate hard drive I've ever had has failed catastrophically and was unrecoverable. With the exception of a hard drive that I dropped six feet onto a tile floor while it was writing, I've never lost data from any other drive. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:20:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Fly: Backblaze (large cloud storage company) periodically publishes their internal studies of what drives have failed on them. And since they own more drives than damn near anyone, its actually gives you an idea of what's crap and what's not. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2023/ The stats you linked show that WDC has a failure rate about a third as bad as the median. With the exception of one specific model of Toshiba, Seagate leads the failure pack, with two of their drives having a one-in-seven chance of dying within a year. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:47:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Alien]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Too bad they always seem to fail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Too bad they always seem to fail. Originally Posted By The_Fly: Professional server admin here. There's only 3 magnetic drive manufacturers left - Seagate, WD, and Toshiba. And they all make good model drives, and shitty model drives. Usually cheap consumer grade drivers tend to be a lot shittier, and enterprise grade drives generally better. But you never really know until you have a large batch of a certain model, and run them for 3-5 years. Anecdotal one-off reports are useless when it comes to considering drive reliability - "my Garbagemaster 87TB drive took a shit yesterday, fuck them and the horse they rode on" doesn't tell anyone anything useful. Backblaze (large cloud storage company) periodically publishes their internal studies of what drives have failed on them. And since they own more drives than damn near anyone, its actually gives you an idea of what's crap and what's not. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2023/ |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:57:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Haven't had a mechanical drive on my PC in 10 plus years. Probably close to 15. My business PC has a NAS with some mechanical drives which work well for large storage at a slower speed than a SSD.
Interesting to see the tech they are still putting into mechanical drives. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:20:28 AM EDT
[#14]
I still miss the Hitachi Deskstar line. I've had a handful of those and was always very pleased with performance over anything else I tried. Never had one fail either.
When I worked at a computer shop all we had were Seagate that failed. For some reason the shop owner would only let.us.order Seagate to replace or upgrade any hard drive. Probably because it was repeat business. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:35:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Fly: Professional server admin here. There's only 3 magnetic drive manufacturers left - Seagate, WD, and Toshiba. And they all make good model drives, and shitty model drives. Usually cheap consumer grade drivers tend to be a lot shittier, and enterprise grade drives generally better. But you never really know until you have a large batch of a certain model, and run them for 3-5 years. Anecdotal one-off reports are useless when it comes to considering drive reliability - "my Garbagemaster 87TB drive took a shit yesterday, fuck them and the horse they rode on" doesn't tell anyone anything useful. Backblaze (large cloud storage company) periodically publishes their internal studies of what drives have failed on them. And since they own more drives than damn near anyone, its actually gives you an idea of what's crap and what's not. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2023/ The Backblaze stats seem to back up the position that Seagate is crap. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:46:59 AM EDT
[#16]
that was pretty cool.
I didn't know about the laser stuff. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:53:02 AM EDT
[#17]
The Backblaze stats seem to mirror my limited experience with the various spinning platter drive brands over 30 or so years of running computers.
The Hitachi and HGST drives I have never had fail. They end up being retired due to being too small or too slow but they have always been removed in working condition. WD drives seem to be generally pretty stable. When they do start to go they seem to give ample warning as they start making noise. I assume it is the bearings going bad. While they aren't my first choice I don't have any real opposition to using them. Seagate drives just plain suck. Every one of them I have owned has failed. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE. When they did fail, it was catastrophically. They just stopped working, no warning. One minute they are: I'm working and doing my thing The next minute: Fuck you. I'm dead! |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:56:49 AM EDT
[#18]
SSD is the only option anymore.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:05:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: SSD is the only option anymore. This is how I know you aren't a data horder. I have two WD Red Pros and one Seagate Ironwolf NAS in my Synology right now. The Seagate runs 5 degrees cooler than the WD drives. We'll see what fails first. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:09:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noob5000000: I'm not an IT professional, but of the ~15 hard drives I've had in and out of PCs in my ~17 years of home personal computing, I've had two hard drive failures, both Seagate. Not a big dataset, but it's enough to keep me going with WD. I recently had 10 of 15 Seagate Exos drives fail within 90 days across multiple machines at work. Some were being tested while others were in production in RAID 10 arrays with important data on them. I had backups but it still blew my mind that I could have a 66% failure rate with any enterprise drive. No more Seagate for me. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:14:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 98Redline: The Backblaze stats seem to mirror my limited experience with the various spinning platter drive brands over 30 or so years of running computers. The Hitachi and HGST drives I have never had fail. They end up being retired due to being too small or too slow but they have always been removed in working condition. WD drives seem to be generally pretty stable. When they do start to go they seem to give ample warning as they start making noise. I assume it is the bearings going bad. While they aren't my first choice I don't have any real opposition to using them. Seagate drives just plain suck. Every one of them I have owned has failed. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE. When they did fail, it was catastrophically. They just stopped working, no warning. One minute they are: I'm working and doing my thing The next minute: Fuck you. I'm dead! I’ve had 3 HGST Ultrastar drives start getting reallocated sectors, however, that was after 6 years in a RAID 0 array in my surveillance PC averaging 180TB/yr being written to them so I’m fine with their lifespan. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:17:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: SSD is the only option anymore. Not with any sort of volume of data it isn’t unless you have unlimited resources. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:19:21 AM EDT
[#23]
"Plasmotic Transducer." Gonna have to remember that one.
Crazy to think about all the science, technology, and engineering that goes into these devices and they're able to sell them for the price they do. A gun, even an exquisite gun, is crude by comparison and yet cost vastly more. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:19:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: L_JE]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: SSD is the only option anymore. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:26:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Samsung T7's. Stack em cheap.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:07:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: I still miss the Hitachi Deskstar line. I've had a handful of those and was always very pleased with performance over anything else I tried. Never had one fail either. When I worked at a computer shop all we had were Seagate that failed. For some reason the shop owner would only let.us.order Seagate to replace or upgrade any hard drive. Probably because it was repeat business. That was the first thing I thought, "at least it's not a Deathstar" Dealt with a lot of failed 80GB Deathstars back in the mid 2000s in our fleet of Optiplexes |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:17:37 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm amazed any of it works at all. "Millions of lines of code" and we're not even out of the disk yet.
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:02:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noob5000000: I'm not an IT professional, but of the ~15 hard drives I've had in and out of PCs in my ~17 years of home personal computing, I've had two hard drive failures, both Seagate. Not a big dataset, but it's enough to keep me going with WD. Same here. Two bad Seagate drives. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:03:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: I still miss the Hitachi Deskstar line. I've had a handful of those and was always very pleased with performance over anything else I tried. Never had one fail either. When I worked at a computer shop all we had were Seagate that failed. For some reason the shop owner would only let.us.order Seagate to replace or upgrade any hard drive. Probably because it was repeat business. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:47:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Anyone else get an ASTRO's Playground vibe?
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:50:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Lol, mechanical junk.
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:52:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Fly: Professional server admin here. There's only 3 magnetic drive manufacturers left - Seagate, WD, and Toshiba. And they all make good model drives, and shitty model drives. Usually cheap consumer grade drivers tend to be a lot shittier, and enterprise grade drives generally better. But you never really know until you have a large batch of a certain model, and run them for 3-5 years. Anecdotal one-off reports are useless when it comes to considering drive reliability - "my Garbagemaster 87TB drive took a shit yesterday, fuck them and the horse they rode on" doesn't tell anyone anything useful. Backblaze (large cloud storage company) periodically publishes their internal studies of what drives have failed on them. And since they own more drives than damn near anyone, its actually gives you an idea of what's crap and what's not. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2023/ Good to see nothing has changed and Seagate is still the one to avoid. Seems like that's been the case for a long time. Still, if a drive doesn't die early, it seems to go on for a very long time. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:54:08 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm the guy who swaps the drives. I'm just a good soldier. Tech is kind of out of hand with regards to the pace of innovation.
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SGP
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:03:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: SSD is the only option anymore. Once you need terabytes on terabytes of storage though, then HDDs are still king, and will be for the foreseeable future. We're now talking about single drives that can hold 24TBs. Even in a four or six bay NAS, that's a phenomenal amount of space that you just aren't going to be able to achieve with SSDs, and assuming it's fully saturated, read and write speeds will be decent. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:13:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: Brutal thread is brutal. What happens inside my laptops, gaming PC's, phone, etc. is nothing short of magical science fiction. It's literally incredible. A century ago, we were still amazed by internal combustion engines. We were just getting our bearings in the sky with primitive flight. Ticker-tape and telephones were new tech. I've had a lot of computers over my more than half-century of life. Built some of them from parts. I have a degree in electronics. All of this is still magical to me. Awe-inspiring even, despite a failure rate that might make me back up shit I care about on other drives of some type. But, maybe that's perspective from having lived through it. Today's children are spoiled brats. Did your HD fail? Oh, snap...too bad you didn't back anything up. Lesson learned, hopefully? Regardless of manufacturer. I forget what college textbook had this example in it, and it was decades ago, but the comparison they used for seeker head control on spinning iron disk drives was a 747 flying at cruise speed 1/100" off the ground, and mapping obstacles 1/200" off the ground. It really is incredible. |
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