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Posted: 10/21/2021 9:22:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, if a person had earnings from a regular job (W2) taxable income of say, $200k, and they also have a farm with an income (loss) of -$150,000, does that mean that they are taxed overall on an income of $50,000? I understand it's highly complicated and requires an accountant, but in general, is this how it works? Apologize for the stupid question, but it's a difficult thing to learn about. One thing I do know is you can't offset unearned income with Sched F losses. Such as pensions or dividends. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 9:26:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP, how could you survive an audit by saying the pickup truck is used only for sec. 179 purposes when a vehicle like that can be used for non farm purposes? You can't. Vehicles, computers, and other stuff used for business and personal have to be declared so much percentage business use. You better have some way to back up that percentage. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:21:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even worse you end up with fractional ownership in a land trust three generations later. Everyone gets a little check most years even though only two of my cousins run the operation day to day while working full time jobs. I'll pull a grain cart or drive the truck to the elevators come harvest but farming really isn't anything I wanted to pursue. None of the rest of the family has dick to do with it other than holding their hands out at the end of the year. Only time I ever got any real money out of it was when IDOT and Walmart bought some ground. Fortunately I expect the developers are going to be pounding on the door soon with serious offers. We had some low ballers already but none were enough to get everyone in agreement to cash out yet. I really hate the scenario where the daughters just hate the farm, being in the sticks sucks, I want out of here. Go off to college after high school, move to the city, live a feckless suburban life for 30 years. Then something happens to the parents and they all of a sudden realize this nasty gross farm is actually worth some money and want their equal share from the sibling that has been working on it those 30 years. I've seen this play out more than once. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:26:53 PM EDT
[#4]
I thought they could only do 25k now instead of 250k
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:26:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Around here the biggest use for a “farm” is to put Farm Use tags on all your cars.
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:26:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Many small family farms were wiped out when the Fed Res changed the margin to 25%. That caused a lot of loans to be called in and profitable small farms went buh-bye. The Fed Res determined that wasn't enough and changed it to 50%, causing even more loans to be called in and shutting down more farms. The birth of big ag began because of the Fed Res. They picked the winners and the losers then and now. Such is the blessing of fractional reserve banking when it is controlled by a private central bank.
End the Fed. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:11:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really hate the scenario where the daughters just hate the farm, being in the sticks sucks, I want out of here. Go off to college after high school, move to the city, live a feckless suburban life for 30 years. Then something happens to the parents and they all of a sudden realize this nasty gross farm is actually worth some money and want their equal share from the sibling that has been working on it those 30 years. I've seen this play out more than once. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Even worse you end up with fractional ownership in a land trust three generations later. Everyone gets a little check most years even though only two of my cousins run the operation day to day while working full time jobs. I'll pull a grain cart or drive the truck to the elevators come harvest but farming really isn't anything I wanted to pursue. None of the rest of the family has dick to do with it other than holding their hands out at the end of the year. Only time I ever got any real money out of it was when IDOT and Walmart bought some ground. Fortunately I expect the developers are going to be pounding on the door soon with serious offers. We had some low ballers already but none were enough to get everyone in agreement to cash out yet. I really hate the scenario where the daughters just hate the farm, being in the sticks sucks, I want out of here. Go off to college after high school, move to the city, live a feckless suburban life for 30 years. Then something happens to the parents and they all of a sudden realize this nasty gross farm is actually worth some money and want their equal share from the sibling that has been working on it those 30 years. I've seen this play out more than once. It's the same with all multigenerational family businesses. Somewhere the parents fucked up by giving everyone an equal share instead of leaving it to the ones who would actively manage it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:12:39 PM EDT
[#8]
I have zero issue with people using any legal "loophole" they can to fuck the IRS out of their extortion scheme profits.
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:21:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really hate the scenario where the daughters just hate the farm, being in the sticks sucks, I want out of here. Go off to college after high school, move to the city, live a feckless suburban life for 30 years. Then something happens to the parents and they all of a sudden realize this nasty gross farm is actually worth some money and want their equal share from the sibling that has been working on it those 30 years. I've seen this play out more than once. Yep. Fair does not mean equal shares. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:27:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too bad Tactical Garand is in ARFCOM jail. He would have lots of input on this. More like the State Pen. Dudes doing 20 to life. His input on this type of matter is sorely missed  .
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:29:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. Fair does not mean equal shares. Sadly the ones not farming often don't see it that way. A different side of people comes out when they feel they aren't getting their "fair share" of their "birthright." Of course, these are the same people that couldn't leave the farm fast enough. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:31:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Utopia? Hardly. I'd settle for a country that doesn't tax the red states to pay the blue ones. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, well, get back to me when your Utopia is achieved. Utopia? Hardly. I'd settle for a country that doesn't tax the red states to pay the blue ones.  |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:31:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bill Gates is the largest single owner of farmland in the US. 242,000 acres. Came here to post this. That philanthropic scumbag |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:36:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many small family farms were wiped out when the Fed Res changed the margin to 25%. That caused a lot of loans to be called in and profitable small farms went buh-bye. The Fed Res determined that wasn't enough and changed it to 50%, causing even more loans to be called in and shutting down more farms. The birth of big ag began because of the Fed Res. They picked the winners and the losers then and now. Such is the blessing of fractional reserve banking when it is controlled by a private central bank. End the Fed. Lowering the interest rate and printing money in 2008 set off a huge boom in land prices. Try working a normal job and a quarter of land just went from $65,000 to $200,000 in under two years. It happened. And it wasn't the free market that caused it. It was great for anyone sitting on a bunch of land, but brutal for anyone that wanted to get in the game. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:36:28 PM EDT
[#15]
The ethos of the American farmer: rugged, self-sufficient, hardworking honest God-fearing people...
It's the greatest political and marketing scam no one wants to talk about. We went from landed gentry to large corporate farms and sold it to suckers as the American Dream |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:44:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most "farms" are tax shelters and write-offs. The agribusiness corporations that produce about half the world's cereal crops and animal protein function more like WalMart. Can you cite this? I live out here, on the farm, in the real world. There's not one single "agribusiness corporation" around here that produces a crop. They might transport it and process it. They don't produce anything. Family farms do. That's what is out here. The Grandpa, Dad, and Son are farming together and making things happen. In fact, in the state of North Dakota it is illegal for a corporation to own farm land. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:45:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Is this why Bill Gates owns all that farm land?
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:50:18 PM EDT
[#18]
One of my monthly clients with a dental practice also has a schedule F.
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:50:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is about “income and tax reduction schemes” of which the ag exemption is one. Also the value of farmland as an investment is driven by crop insurance and subsidies. That’s why farmers have to rent it now—it’s worth more than the value of the crops. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You are talking property taxes, and I'm talking income taxes which is what this thread is about. This is about “income and tax reduction schemes” of which the ag exemption is one. Also the value of farmland as an investment is driven by crop insurance and subsidies. That’s why farmers have to rent it now—it’s worth more than the value of the crops. I guess I did not receive that memo. I'm currently in the process of purchasing another quarter of farm land. It's damn expensive (I could buy a very nice house instead), but land rents are going higher as well. Basically, when you don't know what you're talking about...maybe just don't talk. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:51:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you cite this? I live out here, on the farm, in the real world. There's not one single "agribusiness corporation" around here that produces a crop. They might transport it and process it. They don't produce anything. Family farms do. That's what is out here. The Grandpa, Dad, and Son are farming together and making things happen. In fact, in the state of North Dakota it is illegal for a corporation to own farm land. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:04:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The most productive cow-calf ranch in the country is the Deseret Ranch in FL. They're corporate owned by the Mormon Church. Ok. Still waiting on the guy to cite that half of all cereal grains are produced by agribusiness corporations. ETA: People seem to think that ADM or Cargill is out here "corporate farming" the land. It's not happening. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:07:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/confused-britney-spears--83.gif What am I missing? how is this different than any other business? I can buy new cranes and welding machines instead of a tractor. I can get myself a new truck. If I spend or reinvest all of my earnings....wait for it....I have no earnings. But, who wants to run a business and have no earnings? I actually own and run a business and I have no idea what you're getting at. What am I missing? You’re not missing anything. What’s amusing to me. I’ve been hearing people predict the demise of the individual family farm operation for about 20 years now. Every year, they keep being wrong. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:15:32 AM EDT
[#23]
I am thankful for the farmers that have become youtubers and are showing people everywhere what we do.
People have lost touch with the farm. There just aren't very many of us (less than 2% of the entire country) doing this work....yes, with modern machinery we have become insanely productive. We also work insanely hard (for certain stretches of the year  ) MN Millennial Farmer Intro  Manipulating Metal  A Day In The Life On A FARM: Harvest Edition |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:57:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thought it was well known ‘tree farms’ were always a big tax write off. Not sure about tree farms but around here, guys will be on several acres and get them classified as farm land by letting a neighbor harvest hay growing on their land. Say ten acres, one or two acres producing hay and viola you now own a ten acre farm. At least that is how it has been described to me. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:58:14 AM EDT
[#25]
55 Corporations Paid $0 in Federal Taxes on 2020 Profits
https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/ Food conglomerate Archer Daniels Midland enjoyed $438 million of U.S. pretax income last year and received a federal tax rebate of $164 million. The delivery giant FedEx zeroed out its federal income tax on $1.2 billion of U.S. pretax income in 2020 and received a rebate of $230 million. The shoe manufacturer Nike didn’t pay a dime of federal income tax on almost $2.9 billion of U.S. pretax income last year, instead enjoying a $109 million tax rebate. The cable TV provider Dish Network paid no federal income taxes on $2.5 billion of U.S. income in 2020. The software company Salesforce avoided all federal income taxes on $2.6 billion of U.S. income. Normal Person: I guess they followed the tax code and otherwise re-invested profits. Midcap: So as I suspected, majority of "Corporations" are just giant income and tax reduction schemes.
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Posted: 10/22/2021 1:02:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's wrong with having some land and using it as a tax shelter? Fuck the thieving government and their relentless taxation of everything. They created these tax havens, they can fuck off. It's because things like the farm bills and farm bailouts are another form of handouts and cost taxpayers more money. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 1:13:39 AM EDT
[#27]
And then you sell the land to a property developer that sells .75 acre plots for $150k a piece.
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Posted: 10/22/2021 1:15:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/confused-britney-spears--83.gif What am I missing? how is this different than any other business? I can buy new cranes and welding machines instead of a tractor. I can get myself a new truck. If I spend or reinvest all of my earnings....wait for it....I have no earnings. But, who wants to run a business and have no earnings? I actually own and run a business and I have no idea what you're getting at. What am I missing? I’m, basically every large growth company. Lots of companies have negative earnings but the employees are making millions per year. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 1:15:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Disneyworld is listed as agricultural land. Do they grow some stuff and have cattle…technically yes. Is that why they list themselves that way, no. Tax breaks baby. If you’ve been to Disneyworld, it’s legit a farm with all those heifers walking around. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 1:27:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, about that.... https://preview.redd.it/talgwsurmdd71.jpg?auto=webp&s=6273140028dfcbe67fbf0368580f666bffc9d510 The states highlighted in red (receivers) have a combined population of 151,233,795. It makes sense that the larger group of persons would be paying a higher share of taxes. If there is a data set that |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 1:32:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, about that.... https://preview.redd.it/talgwsurmdd71.jpg?auto=webp&s=6273140028dfcbe67fbf0368580f666bffc9d510 I’m surprised that a lobbyist is so ignorant. When the fed prints money and near as can be gives it to the bankers in New York and Connecticutt, they use that money to loan it at a profit to the entire country and return even more money to the financial capitals. How naive of you to think only in terms of official expenditures. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 1:34:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's because things like the farm bills and farm bailouts are another form of handouts and cost taxpayers more money. It's a valid criticism. As I've stated before, go ahead and shut the programs down. Right now, farmers that have federal crop insurance can run their business, and understand that things will probably work out, if you operate within the plan. All of that strategy, goes right out the window. You'd see a run of farm auctions like you've never seen before. With no guarantee, financial risk just increased dramatically. Equipment and land prices would plummet. The US food supply would become more unstable. Crop prices would become even more volatile. I don't think it would be the worst thing. Actually, probably more profit potential in many areas. And definitely, way more exciting. I also wouldn't mind filling in a few wetlands  ETA: About 80% of the "Farm Bill" spending is SNAP, aka nutrition assistance program. If you want to talk real dollars, there it is. https://origin.farmpolicynews.illinois.edu/2018/01/focus-snap-largest-farm-bill-program/ |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:51:06 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I did not receive that memo. I'm currently in the process of purchasing another quarter of farm land. It's damn expensive (I could buy a very nice house instead), but land rents are going higher as well. Basically, when you don't know what you're talking about...maybe just don't talk. More than half of cropland is rented. Pasture land is mostly owned. Overall 39 percent of farmland is rented, and that figure is growing. But hey, let’s use a sample size of one! |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 3:23:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More than half of cropland is rented. Pasture land is mostly owned. Overall 39 percent of farmland is rented, and that figure is growing. But hey, let’s use a sample size of one! Snarky and obtuse. Fun. A large percentage of cropland is rented because it's an investment that generates a return. You said "farmers have to rent it now--it’s worth more than the value of the crops." That makes no sense. Farmers rent land, very simply because it can make them money without owning it. And people own land for lots of reasons, often investment or inheritance. I actually own and operate a farm. Based on your statements, I'm confident that you don't. But go ahead, keep digging. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 4:00:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Stop looking at this through your straw. The precipitous increase in the price of farmland and the move of major investors into that asset was based on government intervention that increased the stability and value of farmland. Literally, the land is worth more now than the sales price of the crops can justify.
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Posted: 10/22/2021 6:56:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m surprised that a lobbyist is so ignorant. When the fed prints money and near as can be gives it to the bankers in New York and Connecticutt, they use that money to loan it at a profit to the entire country and return even more money to the financial capitals. How naive of you to think only in terms of official expenditures. He’s not ignorant. He’s intentionally oversimplifying and obfuscating in order to paint rural states in a bad light. Miami has always disliked rural folks. It’s been a consistent theme of his in these types of threads for years. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 7:59:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And then you sell the land to a property developer that sells .75 acre plots for $150k a piece. In South FL, the farmers are selling the developers and the developers are selling 4,5000sqft lots for $450k. $150k for a 3/4 are plot would be a fucking steal. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:00:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you've been to Disneyworld, it's legit a farm with all those heifers walking around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Disneyworld is listed as agricultural land. Do they grow some stuff and have cattletechnically yes. Is that why they list themselves that way, no. Tax breaks baby. If you've been to Disneyworld, it's legit a farm with all those heifers walking around. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:04:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's not ignorant. He's intentionally oversimplifying and obfuscating in order to paint rural states in a bad light. Miami has always disliked rural folks. It's been a consistent theme of his in these types of threads for years. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm surprised that a lobbyist is so ignorant. When the fed prints money and near as can be gives it to the bankers in New York and Connecticutt, they use that money to loan it at a profit to the entire country and return even more money to the financial capitals. How naive of you to think only in terms of official expenditures. He's not ignorant. He's intentionally oversimplifying and obfuscating in order to paint rural states in a bad light. Miami has always disliked rural folks. It's been a consistent theme of his in these types of threads for years. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 9:39:17 AM EDT
[#40]
The government definitely needs to get around to taxing the shot out of farmers. All that unrealized tax revenue just going to waste.
I mean the gov is so good with money it will only go to benefit the people right? Like transgender studies in North Korea or expanding NSA domestic spying infrastructure. What gets me with these threads is it doesn’t matter what private citizens are doing to reduce tax liability. The fed steals plenty of money already and uses against its victims. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 10:26:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: look at the median number......and that is the net profit on the schedule F So for example, let's say I have a cattle ranch. I sell enough F1 steers to get a check for $250,000 I have normal expenses for the year like feed, meds, fuckin bull tore up the fence again, fuel, oil, etc. That adds up to $50,000 so now I have a NOI of $200,000. Well looks like I need a new F250 and a new tractor. That's $200,000 section 179 it and thus 0 income. AND during that time you paid on your land, house, shop, trailer, ect, so every couple years when that stuff is paid off, you can buy new and expand and write it off. "farming is about farming crops, and farming government..." |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 10:29:47 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget that thermal and night vision to protect the crops and livestock. It's a vital expense. Cousin is a farmer and said his accountant actually let him write off a new rifle and a case of .22-250 ammo, he legit uses it to pop rock chucks that burrow under building foundations and cause problems. accountant said it would be potentially problamatic to write off more than one rifle and ammo per year though. that he basically got that rifle for free makes the fact that it is a tack driver even more irritating(that i dont own it ). |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 10:36:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this actual farms, or is anyone who uses an AG exemption included? Yep, around here everyone with a 25 acre field in shit hay goes for the ag exemption tax dodge. It is huge. Then I know plenty of farmers where one or both have a regular job for health benefits but try to farm too. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 10:43:52 AM EDT
[#44]
OP ain’t wrong.
Also, nice to see him admit in the OP that he’d buy a Ford if he had the money
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Posted: 10/22/2021 10:45:58 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now I understand what you're saying. So let's say I lived on 30 acres and have some apple trees on it. I should sell those apples each year under an LLC and then write off my night vision that I use to protect my crop? And the side by side I use to harvest them? Why didn't I think of this before, I makes so much sense now that you say it, but it never occurred to me before. You didn't think of it before because: 1. You need a better accountant, preferably one that owns some franchise restaurants, as he has those to show a loss. 2. Despite the scheme being a net positive financially and legal, it feels grimy. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 11:11:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cousin is a farmer and said his accountant actually let him write off a new rifle and a case of .22-250 ammo, he legit uses it to pop rock chucks that burrow under building foundations and cause problems. accountant said it would be potentially problamatic to write off more than one rifle and ammo per year though. that he basically got that rifle for free makes the fact that it is a tack driver even more irritating(that i dont own it ).Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Don't forget that thermal and night vision to protect the crops and livestock. It's a vital expense. Cousin is a farmer and said his accountant actually let him write off a new rifle and a case of .22-250 ammo, he legit uses it to pop rock chucks that burrow under building foundations and cause problems. accountant said it would be potentially problamatic to write off more than one rifle and ammo per year though. that he basically got that rifle for free makes the fact that it is a tack driver even more irritating(that i dont own it ).It is an investment into the business. He also has half of the land as slow-growing timber. Gets paid for not farming the land. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 11:26:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buddy of mine has a Pecan Farm in South Georgia. Hogs are very much a problem. Their rooting tears up the irrigation system for the trees. Convinced him to get a rifle and a ATN night scope to remove the hogs at night. It was a business expense for him and a tax write off. Which, I see nothing wrong with that. It is an investment into the business. He also has half of the land as slow-growing timber. Gets paid for not farming the land. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't forget that thermal and night vision to protect the crops and livestock. It's a vital expense. Cousin is a farmer and said his accountant actually let him write off a new rifle and a case of .22-250 ammo, he legit uses it to pop rock chucks that burrow under building foundations and cause problems. accountant said it would be potentially problamatic to write off more than one rifle and ammo per year though. that he basically got that rifle for free makes the fact that it is a tack driver even more irritating(that i dont own it ).It is an investment into the business. He also has half of the land as slow-growing timber. Gets paid for not farming the land. farm it 3 times, 1 pecans 2 government tax dodge, 3 "unguided hog hunting over bait southern style" , take old trailer, throw on corner, dixie flag inside, put 24 pack of bud light in cooler, charge 300 bucks a head/night for NYC socialites to come and shoot at hogs. your buddy may have to adopt a bad accent, and mullet though. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 11:34:44 AM EDT
[#48]
Does anyone here have any knowledge of CRP conservation reserve program? Was thinking about putting 80 acres in but I’m not sure the tax ramifications.
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Posted: 10/22/2021 11:47:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: colleague buys 30 acres west of DFW holy shit taxes!!! buys 1 pig and 1 cow hey! I'm in the junior farmer program hey! low taxes  He will get tenderly then if his county enforces the rules in Texas. Sat through a Texas Agrilife class just to understand them. If you got 1 cattle and 1 pig on 30 acres, then they are gonna pull his ag exemption etc.....if he gets caught. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 11:53:34 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: haters gonna hate ..... go get you some land and do it too I know I've never met a "rich" farmer around here. Just good people getting by actually working their farms.
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