EDIT: I'm asking specifically about Sport Pilots and aircraft.  Not private due to needing to use DL for medical.




I have been on the fence about getting my sport pilots license for a few years.  But one day I'd love to have that, a small/simple 2 seater or 4 seater for luggage and pets, and then my own hangar and landing strip.

I have none of that now.  Just curious if anyone does?

Any planes as simple as a car to work on?  I've been turning my own wrench on boats, cars, bikes, etc for 15 years or so.  But I know plane mechanics are their own breed and it's not something you just watch a youtube vid to do a particular repair.  

Anyway... goals or fantasy?

Oh, also, how long did it take to get the license and at what cost AND price?

Thanks!

I know just enough about this subject to sound stupid.  We have an aviation forum, ask there. Regulations are changing all the time, and I don’t think you can wrench on your aircraft without an A&P. Something also about an approved list of aircraft you can fly under a sport license, unrestricted airspace….that said, do it.

If you build your own plane you are able to do your own maintenance.

Otherwise you'll need an A&P mechanic to sign off on work.

Yup.  Weight limit, altitude limit and only one additional human allowed on board.

I breezed through the text/manual in a weekend a couple years back.  But while the local flight club is 5 min up the street there's no option to get sport pilot instruction there.

Thanks

If it's kept on my property, how would anyone know what I'm doing to it?  Not saying I wouldn't learn or hire someone....just asking.

The hours for the sport pilot and private aren’t that much less.
Just go for the private and you won’t have those restrictions.

Just go right for the PPL, its only a few more hours, and if you're in the training mode already you're going to be more receptive to the learning needed to do it.

You'll also be a more competent [and safer] pilot in the end.

99% chance no one would but please don’t.

Get some flight training and invest in a good A&P there’s enough fools in this hobby/profession as it is.

If you’re really going down this road, do yourself a favor and just go ahead and spend the extra money to knock out your private pilots certificate. I’m a pilot with my agency so I see a lot of new guys coming in asking about Aviation and my first comment to them is it’s never going to get cheaper. Ever. Best just to suck it up and get your PP certificate in case your desire is changed down the road you aren’t limited to the whole sport and recreational world silliness.  

What is a sport pilot?

https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/frequently-asked-questions-about-sport-pilot

FAA wouldn't let me.  Feel free to PM if unable to figure out the differences in requirements.

My sister has in laws who own several small banks.
They have a private airstrip with a hanger big enough for three small planes.
The runway runs right alongside their 20 acre lake.
Actually very nice, down to earth people.

Former US Airways A&P,
I had looked into purchasing a lot at a private airport.

First one was Masseys airport in NSB Florida, my memory is hazy but when I first looked at lots it was a 4000ft grass strip then later when I went back they paved it, that's a big nope for me.

After that I also looked into a lot at Bally airport which was paved but it was short enough to restrict the type of aircraft which could access the airport.

Then life got in the way, plant closed and I saw no reason to live in that area anymore. And I decided I needed a break from being around aircraft.

Wait....why is paved bad?

Because an aircraft has a "book" that follows it around, you sell the plane the book goes with it.  If you loose the book the plane could be worth less than half of what anyone else is selling theirs with the book.  This book contains ALL aircraft maintenance and records, such as an incident were replacement parts are needed.  I have seen hard landing also documented.  Aircraft are a totally different game of having to have the latest updates and modifications done, called AD's:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/continued_operation/ad/mcai

I am just going to make up one that might exist but honestly don't know.  Say there was an AD for any Cirrus SR-22 aircraft to replace the parachute every 20 years.  Say this cost around 100k.  Say you did this 1.5 years ago but are now ill and can't fly and just going to sell the aircraft.  Without having the documentation to prove you did it the next owner will have to do it again before they can legally fly it except for maybe a mainteance flight to get it to a place that can perform the AD.  This is also a reason to make sure you keep this book updated.  You also have to do what they call annuals on the aircraft.  Unless you "built" at least 51% of that aircraft you cannot maintain it and an A&P will have to sign off the annual (not sure if say you built one and have that documented and buy an EXACT same model).

This also is not like going and replacing the hood strut on your car because you got hit in the head last week checking the oil.  You have to buy your parts from authorized sources for EVERYTHING, need a new seat bolt your not running down to home depot and grabbing one (well you can if you built it and use the same parts that you are replacing and the build was documented this way).  You document everything, because when there is a crash the FAA is going to look at the "book" and determine if it had ANYTHING to do with what happened.  If you don't have this information after the incident available then better buy some 55 gallon drums of lube and get ready for the gangbang.  There are companies that sell software to track this stuff, also makes it easier for people to get the information.

https://veryon.com/flightdocs-maintenance

Look at all the United flights with parts falling off and the Boeing clusterfuck with the door cap.  They will be ripped for this stuff and is why your required to keep the records.  If you don't the liability could be all you own along with all your kids own if you can't prove you maintained your aircraft.

I saw once documented that: A&P performed "such and such" maintenance action....10mmm socket lost while doing procedure.

I am just going to toss out that you cannot pass a 3 class physical, hope you never took one.  If you take a 3rd class physical and failed last time I checked you were not eligible for a sport pilots license.  Strange if someone knowing they can't pass a 3rd class but can maintain a DL never took one can get a sport pilots license. Maybe stuff has changed since then.

I think there are more requirements to maintain one but honestly if it is a private runway not sure.  

Public grass strips I have seen do not have painted lines or numbers on each end..... (maybe this has changed as well)

Nope, never attempted/failed.

Appreciate taking the time to share that info!!

Kinda seems like, if doing the private property thing...I'd need to pay a mechanic to come on to my property for work or fly to them for maintenance to keep the "book" on the up and up.  That can't be cheap.

If you log 0 hours of flight every year I guess it doesn't matter.

Otherwise, if you plan on logging any actual flight hours your insurance company and any future buyer of your plane will be curious about who maintained your plane and how and what the log book says.

Depends on what aircraft you own.  Some are way "cheaper" than others but I would say the cheapest I have seen is around $700 for an annual, the aircraft flew in and needed nothing (rare).  No retractable landing gear, no flaps, and very few AD that need to be verified since the last annual.  

If it is your first with a new A&P on that aircraft expect to pay way more for the first one, after that person is familiar with the aircraft the next should be cheaper since they verified most of the stuff before.

This is where the VAN's aircraft become popular, you build 51% of the aircraft and you can do your own annuals and maintain it but the FAA can ask to see your work. Like one of the above posters mentioned, logging flight hours means aircraft maintenance, maybe not that flight but your oil changes better be on point with the manufacture specs of the engine.  You log 20k flight hours without an oil change and someone will be asking questions and making you feel really uncomfortable.

Agreed.

We have a few fly in communities around here. My land in MT I bought gave me an option to cover the runway portion and the road easement gave me a clear path with no fear of development. Problem was the hangar purchase at the local airport was cheaper than I would ever spend.

Haven't looked at aircraft options in a couple years but again sport/light sport so just 2 seats, enclosed and no frills would be great.  Joined a couple FB groups for sport piloting I need to read through.  But that's the route I'd go.  No way in hell I'd have the time to build my own!  

What do A&P charge for hourly labor?  

If it'd be like $2k-$5k a year with $10k being super rare...as far as yearly maintenance and repairs...cool!  Otherwise not sure I'd be able to justify the training/plane ownership despite being able to afford it.  Same reason I'll never buy a German or Italian car.

Nothing about flying is cheap. I’m just a dumb student pilot and I spend a shit ton just learning. My headset alone was $1000.00.

I’m lucky enough to have a well paying job so I’m not going broke doing it. I hope to eventually buy a plane. I have researched the shit out of plane ownership so I have a decent idea of what I’m in store for. $$$$$$$$$

Single engine recips are generally simple to work on.   You’ll need to get  a mechanic to sign off the annuals.  

You DO realize you're on a gun forum right?  So somewhat of a "go be poor somewhere else " hobby. Lol

... boat forums dwarf us though!

But I'm kinda used to $500 here $2k there.   Just bought a brand new M82a1 in November I'll be sighting in this week (I hope!).  Far from what I would consider rich but I can hold my own and do ok for myself.

Just weighing whether a plane and license is realistic to keep among my goals.

Thanks!

Well, I’m glad you have a well paying job, ‘cause in Denver, you’ll need a Turboprop at a bare minimum.    I used to Hated watching the 172’s wallow into the air.  Really unnatural and terrifying.  

It’s the equivalent of a fully fueled 172 at sea level, loaded up with 4 Midcap 8’s, on One mag, with the Carb Heat on, taking off uphill with a tailwind.   In August at 2500 msl.

You're starting to understand.

Oh I totally get that. This being a gun forum it stands to reason that members here have more disposable income than the average person.
I’d say if you can swing a plane and license go for it amigo. You only live once. You may as well have super power. Which that’s kinda what flying is like.

This is can be regional for a private aircraft so my answer would be different from 87 other answers.  I have seen some get lucky and find local A&P that does stuff like that for "side jobs."  Then if you go to a shop it will probably be more.  Either way usually taking the aircraft to them will be cheaper.

The aircraft you have also will dictate the cost as some will require way more work that others, so until you have that narrowed down your asking the equivalent of what will GD be up in arms about next.....

Buying a gun is cheap, shooting a gun is expensive
Buying a motorcycle is expensive, riding a motorcycle is cheap
Buying an airplane is expensive,  flying an airplane is expensive

My username is a bit deceiving. I moved back to the western slope about 1.5 years ago. Still the airports I fly out of are 4500-5500 ft. In the summer the DA can get pretty bad.
I’m still pondering what plane I want to get. The vast majority, like 90% of my flying will be alone. I do make decent money but not turboprop money unfortunately.

funny story,

I sold one of my flight computers and the guy who flew in to pick it up, older guy like 70 ish

I asked how long ago it was that he got his pilots license

said

"yeah, never got around to it yet, might do that someday"

asked how long he had been flying

"bout 50 to 55 years I guess"

I gave him a long sideways look and he said

"you ever see a cop up there?"

I nodded and smiled

The only time flying off your own place you will get in trouble is when you crash (assuming you are not licensed and blah blah), good thing, you have a good chance of dying in the crash so it won't matter to you.

That all being said, it is worth taking the training as you will come out a far far better pilot

If you build your own, you do your own wrenching also

But, yes, you can fly au natural and probably never have a problem with it.  Thousands upon thousands of pilots have done that over the years.

I can understand all points.  To early/uneducated now but it would directly tie in to future land shopping.  If there's not several mechan8cs either nearby to come to me or close enough to fly to m8ght be prohibitive.  And I'm guessing there are no tow trucks for airplanes unless a rare model has folding wings to fit on a trailer.

Funny, true,  poetic...a rare hat trick!

I do cast and reload, mill and print lowers so there's that to lighten the sting somewhat.

Obviously, it depends on the type of aircraft.   But if you want one that has travel utility, (2 people, a dog, and bags).  It’s not $500 here, $2000 there.   It’s more like $2000 here, $10,000 there.    

It really just depends how much you want it.    

I have found that a nice rule of thumb is expect the same cost for maintenance reserves, as you spend on fuel.   It’s easy to calculate fuel usage and cost, so you just double it.   It’s not exact, obviously.

When I worked at a Cincinnati Lunken FBO, we had some plane owners that were just regular guys.

Post office worker with a 172. Flew it so little we'd have to go air up the tires to keep the ramp from looking like shit.

Part timer in the FBO/CPA or something. Went into a partnership on a Grumman Tiger. Didn't see him fly much either.

Cliff the Slumlord/occasional CFI, with a POS 152.

"Hey Donnie.....go get Jeff(FBO A&P) Cliff's working on his POS again!!!" He eventually got booted out.

Nothing in Aviation is cheap. Sure as hell not the fuel either.

So $10k repairs on a 2 seater sport license plane... is that dropping in a crate motor or ????   Not being sarcastic, genuinely asking to learn what maintenance and repairs actually look like.

Thanks!

I was kinda exaggerating (obviously) but I truly do recommend getting something over powered.    182’s are as cheap as 172’s.  That would be my pick.   Watching those training airplanes really did used to make my ‘nads retract, even though I had over 2000 hrs in Cessnas often flying into short fields and grass.

Maybe Musk will set his sights on planes next and I can just have a solar field to charge my 2 seater on either side of the runway.  BOOM! No more fuel cost!!

Crate motor on a Cherokee 180 is around $35,000

My first annual on my plane was $12,000 +

Next two were in the $6,000 range

From there about $2,000 to $4000

That's a 4-6 seater right?

Way above what I'd be allowed!  While the seats aren't regulated the weight and human passengers are for sport pilots.

4 seater, but just given to show how much they cost for annuals

maybe figure half that for a simple two seater

Well this is where prior planning prevents piss poor performance.....if you do run over the limit you can request a "maintenance flight" to get you to where you need to go.  I will say you might have to have a ferry pilot do the maintenance flight.  These are pilots paid to fly aircraft sometimes out of the "tolerance window" of the operating manual.  Such as:

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/news/the-latest/the-story-behind-the-cessna-172-that-flew-from-california-to-hawaii/

Probably depends on what maintenance action is required but this is way outside of my knowledge....hell some of the above is really old stuff and might be out of date....take my comments as a basic informational stuff and not anything close to the real laws on the matter.

You lost me with "over the limit"....what limit and what are you referring to?

Back in the mid-late 80's, the sport pilots that did that did such things might have been more professional than they seemed

A father/son duo got popped in my home town smuggling coke and ganja. They had a thriving business all over the damn US when that rock finally got kicked over.

If I were to do it again, I would get a PPL, then buy a two seater and the rare times I carry three total or 4 total people I would rent a larger aircraft

a 180 isn't a big plane, but I am overspending on cost per flight hour and fuel for the privilege of being able to carry extra people who are rarely there

99% of the flights are either solo or with my wife

With a PPL and a two seater I would cover all the needs I have for most of my flights and still have the ability to rent a bigger airplane when needed

If you can't get a PPL and stuck with a sport license, don't feel like your missing out

hell an ultralight still gets you in the air and requires no license

and yes, some people have strips and hangers at there house

I am currently building a strip in my yard (yes it is a big big big yard, like 1/2 mile big), but the dang hanger looks like it is going to cost more than the airplane did (new construction is stupid expensive now)

Your requirements would be something like a C172.  More like $20-30 K for an engine.  Prop is maybe $10k ish.  It’s been a long time.   The unknown unknowns are what get you.  The wing spar inspection you weren’t expecting, etc.  and Avionics.  

Much of that can be mitigated by finding a guy who really, really, knows the type aircraft you are looking at, and doing a thorough pre purchase inspection.  

Go to Oshkosh and spend a couple days asking questions.   Great people, and pilots love to talk shop.  

These are LSA which are affordable to operate.   However, they are oddly expensive, and you ain’t putting a guest and a dog and bags into one for a cross country trip.  
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ooooooooooooohhhm, the JUST superstol

that baby is on my short list to replace my 180