Stone age weapons - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Stone age weapons (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 1/22/2020 2:29:10 PM EDT

[#1]

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Quoted:
Is it Osage Orange?

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No. I haven't seen any osage orange walking staffs.

Posted: 1/22/2020 3:56:23 PM EDT

[#2]

@ Smashy

Notches in the shaft below the tangs of the point. Crisscrosses from the point tangs to notches on the opposite side of the shaft. As the sinew dries, the point is pulled tighter into the shaft's clevis. I'll try to remember to take some pics when I get home. (My piddling is noting like your fine work.)

I have some theories about the evolution of base styles from clovis to woodland relating to hafting.

Posted: 1/22/2020 4:20:33 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:
@ Smashy

Notches in the shaft below the tangs of the point. Crisscrosses from the point tangs to notches on the opposite side of the shaft. As the sinew dries, the point is pulled tighter into the shaft's clevis. I'll try to remember to take some pics when I get home. (My piddling is noting like your fine work.)

I have some theories about the evolution of base styles from clovis to woodland relating to hafting.

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Okay, I know what you mean (I thought you meant notches like I put on the club for grip). That's something I haven't tried yet, not sure how well it would work. I'll have to decide which spear I want to use to experiment with that.

Posted: 1/22/2020 4:41:13 PM EDT

[#4]

Well shit that is pretty cool.

Posted: 1/22/2020 5:14:24 PM EDT

[#5]

I'm jelly of your knapping skills. Very nice.

I'm barely past getting a rifle flint or small, triangle bird point knapped out.

Posted: 1/22/2020 5:15:48 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
I'm jelly of your knapping skills. Very nice.

I'm barely past getting a rifle flint or small, triangle bird point knapped out.

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I don't knap them, I buy them. Disclaimer is in the OP.

Posted: 1/22/2020 5:21:07 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
I'm jelly of your knapping skills. Very nice.

I'm barely past getting a rifle flint or small, triangle bird point knapped out.

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Try obsidian

Posted: 1/22/2020 5:25:13 PM EDT

[#8]

Attached File

Posted: 1/22/2020 5:33:11 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
1911

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/351571/A2479670-8855-4166-BFFC-5AE78298DEA3_jpe-1241544.JPG

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Posted: 1/22/2020 5:42:09 PM EDT

[#10]

This is a Lost Lake type I found that had tip damage and a snapped base. I resharpened the tip and formed the base in something like a Quad. I made it and some others for a Boy Scout Arrow of Flight ceremony. They thought I hung the moon:

This is a sketch I made for friends explaining a theory why the clovis was made the way it was--the purpose of fluting and why there was grinding far above the base. The grinding was so that the sinew wouldn't be cut by the blade as it dries and contracted:

IMO, hafting style further evolved into the later tanged styles like quads and lost lake that I suspect were hafted like the first pic shows.

I suspect still later, Woodland period, stemmed points were just forced into a hole in a shaft. I suspect it was realized that a shot dart will either strike its target or not: and is likely to break whether it hits bone, or hits a tree, ground, rock, etc if the target is missed. i.e. Why go through all the trouble to haft with sinew and seal it if it's so likely to break? I suspect this not-hafting technology is what displaced archaic people from major rivers.

BTW, I noticed the bases of woodland points I found in a particular place would have bases with widths within ~1mm of each other. A sort of standardization. Evidence of an advancement of weaponology perhaps.

Posted: 1/22/2020 10:20:18 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is a Lost Lake type I found that had tip damage and a snapped base. I resharpened the tip and formed the base in something like a Quad. I made it and some others for a Boy Scout Arrow of Flight ceremony. They thought I hung the moon:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/12140/20200122_155627-1244991.jpg
This is a sketch I made for friends explaining a theory why the clovis was made the way it was--the purpose of fluting and why there was grinding far above the base. The grinding was so that the sinew wouldn't be cut by the blade as it dries and contracted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/12140/20190308_110419-1244989.jpg
IMO, hafting style further evolved into the later tanged styles like quads and lost lake that I suspect were hafted like the first pic shows.

I suspect still later, Woodland period, stemmed points were just forced into a hole in a shaft. I suspect it was realized that a shot dart will either strike its target or not: and is likely to break whether it hits bone, or hits a tree, ground, rock, etc if the target is missed. i.e. Why go through all the trouble to haft with sinew and seal it if it's so likely to break? I suspect this not-hafting technology is what displaced archaic people from major rivers.

BTW, I noticed the bases of woodland points I found in a particular place would have bases with widths within ~1mm of each other. A sort of standardization. Evidence of an advancement of weaponology perhaps.

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That looks pretty well done. When I find the right point for it I'll experiment with that and hope I don't bugger it up.

Posted: 1/24/2020 7:53:48 PM EDT

[#12]

I sure like finding points!!! Someday maybe I'll try and haft some. Nice!!!!!

Posted: 1/24/2020 7:56:58 PM EDT

[#13]

What are you tying it up with? Ligaments?

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:54:40 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
What are you tying it up with? Ligaments?

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Sinew.

This axe was originally intended to be a wood chopper, but it's too lightweight for that. It would be fine for making kindling, but it's light and swings pretty fast, so it would make a better weapon.

Posted: 1/25/2020 11:18:33 PM EDT

[#15]

Wow, I want that axe!

Posted: 1/26/2020 4:25:36 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:
Wow, I want that axe!

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Sorry, not for sale.

Posted: 1/28/2020 8:06:19 AM EDT

[#17]

French/European model.

Municion L.M.P. 1889: Paris Commune to Spanish Civil War

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olLjXYKfUYA

Posted: 1/28/2020 3:07:20 PM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:
French/European model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olLjXYKfUYA

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har har

Posted: 1/30/2020 6:55:38 PM EDT

[#19]

[/url]

Posted: 2/3/2020 5:25:25 PM EDT

[#20]

Posted: 2/8/2020 10:14:33 PM EDT

[#21]

I had a bit of an accident with this one. After it was finished I had it oustide on the driveway. I dropped it nose down on the pavement and the point broke off. Although the end that's left is still small and sharp enough that I think it would still go through a deer or other critter. No armadillos, though.

Posted: 2/8/2020 10:16:12 PM EDT

[#22]

Thats awesome work!

Posted: 2/9/2020 3:23:44 PM EDT

[#23]

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Thats awesome work!

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Thanks.

Posted: 2/17/2020 4:18:51 PM EDT

[#24]

Just a little preview of another one in the works.

Posted: 2/17/2020 4:21:45 PM EDT

[#25]

Great thread Smashy.

Posted: 2/17/2020 4:24:34 PM EDT

[#26]

WEAPONS OF WAR DO NOT BELONG ON OUR STREETS

Posted: 2/17/2020 4:29:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Cool stuff!

I always remember my cousins going arrowhead hunting. They had a huge collection.

Posted: 2/17/2020 4:43:55 PM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:
WEAPONS OF WAR DO NOT BELONG ON OUR STREETS

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Avatar does not compute.

Posted: 2/17/2020 5:05:33 PM EDT

[#29]

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Quoted:
WEAPONS OF WAR DO NOT BELONG ON OUR STREETS

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Agreed
They belong in our hands!

Posted: 2/17/2020 5:18:52 PM EDT

[#30]

Suddenly I really want an obsidian AR with all the chip marks.

I think it would look pretty neat with some hand carved wood furniture.

ETA: Your work is nothing short of amazing, Smashy. Thanks for posting.

Posted: 2/17/2020 6:16:58 PM EDT

[#31]

What is your pitch blend? Resin, fat and charcoal ? I have some we use on bark baskets and a canoe?

Posted: 2/17/2020 8:51:03 PM EDT

[#32]

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Quoted:
What is your pitch blend? Resin, fat and charcoal ? I have some we use on bark baskets and a canoe?

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I used to use pine resin, charcoal, sawdust, and beeswax. But I don't make it anymore because I don't have time to go out and find more resin. I bought the stuff I use now from Thunderbird Atlatl. It has natural ingredients and it's pretty strong.

Posted: 2/17/2020 8:58:34 PM EDT

[#33]

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Quoted:
Agreed
They belong in our hands!

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Quoted:

Quoted:
WEAPONS OF WAR DO NOT BELONG ON OUR STREETS

Agreed
They belong in our hands!

Posted: 2/22/2020 6:46:13 PM EDT

[#34]

And a few more waiting their turn in line.

Posted: 2/22/2020 6:49:06 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
1911

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/351571/A2479670-8855-4166-BFFC-5AE78298DEA3_jpe-1241544.JPG

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lol

Posted: 2/22/2020 7:17:11 PM EDT

[#36]

Very interesting, thanks for posting.
How hard is it to break a spear point?
It seems a spear like that would penetrate animal flesh easy unless it his a large bone.
I met a guy a few years ago that made spear tips like that.

Posted: 2/22/2020 8:38:41 PM EDT

[#37]

I shot a deer years ago with a stone point a buddy made and attached to an arrow for me. It penetrated the right side of his rib cage and stuck out about a foot thru the left side and broke off. The tip of the point had about 1/4” broken off. The ribs were broken/chipped on both sides. My buddy said he’d found original points that looked like they had been broken off and napped back to a useable point. It’s somewhere around if I can find it I’ll post a pic

Posted: 2/22/2020 9:35:10 PM EDT

[#38]

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Quoted:
How hard is it to break a spear point?

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It's basically a piece of stone that can be broken by whacking it with another stone (knapping), so it would seem to be a bit fragile. But I dropped that one nose down (at an angle) on the pavement and all that broke off was the little bit at the tip. So that one at least proved to be pretty sturdy.

Posted: 2/22/2020 9:53:01 PM EDT

[#39]

My brother in FL is big into this. He makes some nice points but he hasn't really gotten into attaching them to handles and making knives and such.

Posted: 2/25/2020 10:46:25 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Very interesting, thanks for posting.
How hard is it to break a spear point?
It seems a spear like that would penetrate animal flesh easy unless it his a large bone.
I met a guy a few years ago that made spear tips like that.

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I remember seeing this documentary on PBS or one of those type stations a few years ago.
They found a bison skull with a stone point stuck in it, so apparently they penetrate bone pretty well.

Posted: 2/25/2020 10:50:56 AM EDT

[#41]

I nominate Smashy to be our weapons officer for WW IV. It will be a new green war with sustainable, eco-friendly non-polluting weaponry.

Posted: 2/25/2020 10:58:19 AM EDT

[#42]

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Quoted:
Bone point for an atlatl dart. Took a while to get a decent edge on it but it's pretty sharp now.

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Cool.

How does the atlatl compare to a bow in the penetration department? I assume an atlatl dart is way heavier, but slower than a bow?

Posted: 2/25/2020 10:27:26 PM EDT

[#43]

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Quoted:
How does the atlatl compare to a bow in the penetration department? I assume an atlatl dart is way heavier, but slower than a bow?

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I don't know, I've never compared them. I get around a foot or so when throwing at hay bales, but I don't know how that would translate to an animal.

A few years ago this guy took a 15 point buck, he said he got 11 inches of penetration. Obviously enough to do the job.

Attached File

A couple of years later this lady did well enough with one of her darts.

Attached File

ETA: George Frison killed an elephant with a large atlatl and dart.

@makintrax73

Posted: 3/7/2020 9:45:38 AM EDT

[#44]

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Quoted:
I don't have any rawhide. I tried to use some from a dog chew a while ago but it didn't turn out well.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Where do you get the rawhide? I want some for tomahawk projects.

I don't have any rawhide. I tried to use some from a dog chew a while ago but it didn't turn out well.

What are you wrapping the point to the shaft with?

Edit, answered.

Posted: 3/7/2020 9:59:34 AM EDT

[#45]

And I'm seeing too from your "experiments" that the stone point is not the valuable, hard to acquire part, it's the shaft. Whether an arrow(which would have to have a really straight, proper shaft) or a spear, the shaft is the hard part.

Posted: 3/7/2020 10:27:38 PM EDT

[#46]

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Quoted:
And I'm seeing too from your "experiments" that the stone point is not the valuable, hard to acquire part, it's the shaft. Whether an arrow(which would have to have a really straight, proper shaft) or a spear, the shaft is the hard part.

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It is. But I found a source of the good ones I can get in slightly larger diameters to fit some of the bigger heads and not have any lacquer applied or holes drilled. That will save me some work.