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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:04:09 PM EST
[#1]
Brain injury from explosive over pressure, the mechanism and injury is not well understood yet.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:04:25 PM EST
[#2]
the human body was not built for war.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:05:01 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you see intense combat and experience multiple TBIs? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: PTSD is mostly fake or harbored by weak people who should have never been in the military in the first place. Did you see intense combat and experience multiple TBIs? Yes. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:07:08 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because they were just regular people who were fed into a meat grinder so their own government could reduce their numbers. Source needed. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:07:24 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: PTSD is mostly fake or harbored by weak people who should have never been in the military in the first place. Did you see intense combat and experience multiple TBIs? Yes. It’s remarkable then that you would be so ignorant. Maybe it’s your PTSD talking. 
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:14:12 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PTSD is mostly fake or harbored by weak people who should have never been in the military in the first place. Thank you for your service. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:16:28 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PTSD is mostly fake or harbored by weak people who should have never been in the military in the first place. These folks disagree. All Secure Foundation PTS: What is it and who has it? https://www.allsecurefoundation.org//blog/pts-what-is-it-and-who-has-it |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:38:32 PM EST
[#8]
That sucks for those Marines.
Would putting a huge titanium Flaming Pig on artillery make all that disappear? Maybe still some concussion but probably a lot less noise. Like 3’ wide by 5’ feet long, instead of the traditional muzzle break? Or would that cause too much kick back on the artillery? |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:45:16 PM EST
[#9]
Double tap.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:46:41 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not trying to sound trite or glib, but when you fight demonic forces, demons will fight back. It’s of Satan…and he’s powerful. Our men and women are fighting on the front lines of a battle that’s not just physical. The muslims pray to their demon moon god Allah for revenge The hordes of demons who constantly decieve them sometimes oblige |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:53:36 PM EST
[#11]
I've helped conduct explosive tbi testing. We bombed a lot of mice at different distances from c4. If I recall the medical studies done by the doctors showed that the threshold for TBI is way below what the military has said is safe by dB levels alone. It's also shown that explosive or shock TBI is cumulative damage. Some studies have shown that helmets make the over pressure worse...In a way you brain is inside a bell and the shock passes through your face and brain then gets reflected off the helmet back through the brain again.
If you lucky you will only have memory loss and decreased ability to concentrate later in life. Worst case, you basically have early onset dementia and hallucinations. Severe TBI will show dead areas during a brain scan. When the doctors cut open the mice we blew up they could document physical damage. Memory tests for the mice were degraded for a week to a month. We shot a lot of c4 and shook the mice. We never killed one due to explosions or debris. The doctors killed a few by over sedating a few. The mice were taught how to run mazes and after the TBI explosion they would run the same maze but would require more time or just get lost for awhile. Some were killed and brains studied after a day or two. Others weeks later to try and find correlation of physical damage to mental capacity testing in the mazes. One of my friends, an ex marine earned her PhD doing the explosive testing and proposing new guidelines for safe overpressure and duration of explosive events. She had some PTSD from her time in the sandbox. I think the project was her way of trying to protect fellow soldiers in the future. She is a very good person just trying to do better every day. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 7:55:09 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That sucks for those Marines. Would putting a huge titanium Flaming Pig on artillery make all that disappear? Maybe still some concussion but probably a lot less noise. Like 3’ wide by 5’ feet long, instead of the traditional muzzle break? Or would that cause too much kick back on the artillery? Neva bin dun befo  
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Posted: 11/5/2023 8:00:24 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Source needed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because they were just regular people who were fed into a meat grinder so their own government could reduce their numbers. Source needed. Which part? That people are people, or that the government knew they would kill people without accomplishing anything and did it anyway, cause fuck em. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 8:45:56 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That sucks for those Marines. Would putting a huge titanium Flaming Pig on artillery make all that disappear? Maybe still some concussion but probably a lot less noise. Like 3’ wide by 5’ feet long, instead of the traditional muzzle break? Or would that cause too much kick back on the artillery? Neva bin dun befo https://freerangeamerican.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Screen-Shot-2021-12-28-at-4.54.02-PM-copy-1024x657.jpg https://freerangeamerican.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Screen-Shot-2021-12-28-at-4.54.10-PM-copy-1024x658.jpg Not that extravagant. A Flaming pig directs all sound forward and most of the explosion at least on an AR15. It’s basically a muzzle break which is a cone, thin to wide going out. Redirecting sound and blast all forward. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 8:51:39 PM EST
[#15]
Is there a 2nd chapter?
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Posted: 11/5/2023 8:54:25 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell that to the men that went ashore at Normandy or fought with entrenching tools in the WWII pacific theater. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:01:04 PM EST
[#17]
Sounds like an X-file.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:39:42 PM EST
[#18]
Wasn't there an issue with firing too many AT4s or Carl Gustavs causing brain damage or something? Those Marines did some work, shooting out their barrels, probably worse than an AT4.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:59:29 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Summary? |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:16:33 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've helped conduct explosive tbi testing. We bombed a lot of mice at different distances from c4. If I recall the medical studies done by the doctors showed that the threshold for TBI is way below what the military has said is safe by dB levels alone. It's also shown that explosive or shock TBI is cumulative damage. Some studies have shown that helmets make the over pressure worse...In a way you brain is inside a bell and the shock passes through your face and brain then gets reflected off the helmet back through the brain again. If you lucky you will only have memory loss and decreased ability to concentrate later in life. Worst case, you basically have early onset dementia and hallucinations. Severe TBI will show dead areas during a brain scan. When the doctors cut open the mice we blew up they could document physical damage. Memory tests for the mice were degraded for a week to a month. We shot a lot of c4 and shook the mice. We never killed one due to explosions or debris. The doctors killed a few by over sedating a few. The mice were taught how to run mazes and after the TBI explosion they would run the same maze but would require more time or just get lost for awhile. Some were killed and brains studied after a day or two. Others weeks later to try and find correlation of physical damage to mental capacity testing in the mazes. One of my friends, an ex marine earned her PhD doing the explosive testing and proposing new guidelines for safe overpressure and duration of explosive events. She had some PTSD from her time in the sandbox. I think the project was her way of trying to protect fellow soldiers in the future. She is a very good person just trying to do better every day. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:21:47 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New American Military Artillery men are pussies. Had bad dreams after deployment, . While there, never missed a meal , 3 hots and a cot. Tough duty. ?? Geezusss... WTF is wrong with you??? GTFO  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:22:35 PM EST
[#22]
None of this is news to anyone who has worked with the Walter Reed TBI clinic.
TBI and PTSD are intertwined. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:25:12 PM EST
[#23]
1. Many cases of PTSD are legitimate.
2. Many claims of PTSD are illegitimately made by shit birds seeking benefits. Both of the above statements can be true at the same time. Just because you personally know people in one group does not disprove the existence of the other group. I did two deployments and suffered no problems because I was lucky. Personally I believe that I would be prone to PTSD had I been placed in the wrong circumstances, not because I am weak, but because I can't turn my brain off and I dwell on how I might have changed things or whether I made mistakes. There but for the grace of God go I. Edit to add: I was an Engineer officer in combat support roles, not combat arms. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:25:32 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: JFC guy. Did you even read it? WTF Edit - you got banned. Lol. See ya around in your next account! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: New American Military Artillery men are pussies. Had bad dreams after deployment, . While there, never missed a meal , 3 hots and a cot. Tough duty. ?? JFC guy. Did you even read it? WTF Edit - you got banned. Lol. See ya around in your next account! Glad the toolbag is history. Some of the people here border on psychopathy/sociopathy with their fucked-up bullshit. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:30:38 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell that to the men that went ashore at Normandy or fought with entrenching tools in the WWII pacific theater. ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Really? Occupational hazards aren't real people are just weak. Smh. Tell that to the men that went ashore at Normandy or fought with entrenching tools in the WWII pacific theater. ?? So it's all or nothing? If Normandy guys didn't get it, these Marines don't? You have some fucked up logic. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:31:15 PM EST
[#26]
Nevermind, I see dickwagon was banned.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:33:00 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He said mostly fake. Not all. And many combat veterans who saw as much combat as York Murphy did not have PTSD. It varies from individual but I think it is more prominent today because it is almost expected you will have PTSD from combat. Which is not the case. It is self fulfilling in some cases And I first heard that from several WW2 combat veterans who waded in on this issue in the early 2000s. They believed there are legitimate cases but alot are overblown or even fake. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:  Alvin York and Audie Murphy both had PTSD. He said mostly fake. Not all. And many combat veterans who saw as much combat as York Murphy did not have PTSD. It varies from individual but I think it is more prominent today because it is almost expected you will have PTSD from combat. Which is not the case. It is self fulfilling in some cases And I first heard that from several WW2 combat veterans who waded in on this issue in the early 2000s. They believed there are legitimate cases but alot are overblown or even fake. @JMD look up the "Pygmalion Effect." Target expectations affect target performance. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:38:56 PM EST
[#28]
As a man that has not experienced sustained combat, I can not imagine telling someone who has "how it is".
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:40:35 PM EST
[#29]
WTF, demon attacks and they are pussys. LOL this place is wild
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Posted: 11/5/2023 11:38:34 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1. Many cases of PTSD are legitimate. 2. Many claims of PTSD are illegitimately made by shit birds seeking benefits. Both of the above statements can be true at the same time. Just because you personally know people in one group does not disprove the existence of the other group. Snip… Very true. I know people in both groups. As a rule, I try to avoid making definitive judgments about someone else’s condition when I’m not in their head, but I know for a fact that there was a significant number of people I served with who were convinced that claiming PTSD was a ticket to free shit. When we returned from deployment, we were coaxed into reporting PTSD symptoms. I assumed there was a political angle. When I out processed, one of the councilors gave us a presentation about the benefits you could receive if you were diagnosed with PTSD. He told us about the medical interview questions and what answers you should give if you wanted the diagnosis. Many people in the room took careful notes and several stayed behind to ask more questions. That being said ptsd is very real and correlates with TBI. I read the whole article and find it convincing and sad. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 11:41:36 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Summary? Killing people, even bad people, fucks you up in the head. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 11:47:53 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Killing people, even bad people, fucks you up in the head. Yup. Not too many humans robotic enough to escape at least some of the trauma of taking a human life. Most of us here are prepared to do it. But the older and wiser I get, the less I want to be forced to do it. But should the need arise... as Robert McCall stated "but for you... I'll make an exception". |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 11:50:24 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Killing people, even bad people, fucks you up in the head. I don’t think the violence has anything to do with it. It’s just the overpressure. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 11:51:46 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Summary? The concussive force that artillerymen are exposed to causes microscopic injuries to the brain tissue. The effect of which are only being now studied. Many vets that suffer from them have been written off as problem children. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 4:53:38 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t think the violence has anything to do with it. It’s just the overpressure. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Killing people, even bad people, fucks you up in the head. I don’t think the violence has anything to do with it. It’s just the overpressure. Correct. There are lots of people who actually have zero qualms with violence, it just isn't socially acceptable for them to admit it. Overpressure is a whole different monster. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 5:09:40 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a reason the original name for PTSD was 'Shell Shock". From what I have read, “shell shock” is when you totally lock-up, or flip out. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 5:34:09 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've often wondered if our ancestors were just bad ass or they hid shit better. I'm not belittling any service members past or present, but it seems like you hear about a lot of mental problems now. I do believe people that have killed in anger for our country have paid as big a price as the ones that have died for our country. On a historical level, war on an industrial and continuous scale is a fairly recent thing. And so is the loudness of it. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 6:02:34 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryIt’s that friggin Compensator that did it. Anyone remember the Bushmaster Y Comp? It traumatized anyone within 20 feet of the line. That, X 1,000,000 I don’t doubt those guys suffered physical harm. I know the M1 tank main gun sends an impressive shockwave which goes right through you, and I didn’t fire 1000’s of rounds like they did. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 6:29:32 AM EST
[#39]
Interestingly, very low instances of this from AC-130 crew. Shoot 100 105mm rounds, all the 40mm and 25mm, as fast as you can and no problems. While you can definitely feel the aircraft being kicked by the 105 recoil, all the blast and overpressure is outside the aircraft.
We did have the occasional person get in a bad mental place from what we did. It was mainly from the thought of what they were doing, or the "creeping feelings of doom" that it would be their turn next. Usually fixed without losing the person to a new career. Now, don't get me started on all the weird cancers and tumors that seem to happen more frequently than normal. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 6:32:38 AM EST
[#40]
Accumulative concussive brain damage isn't PTSD, it's an actual physical injury to the brain. In the end, it'll be not unlike brain damage caused by repeated head trauma caused by football and other sports but concussive blast will be the source.
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Posted: 11/6/2023 6:45:35 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not that extravagant. A Flaming pig directs all sound forward and most of the explosion at least on an AR15. It’s basically a muzzle break which is a cone, thin to wide going out. Redirecting sound and blast all forward. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That sucks for those Marines. Would putting a huge titanium Flaming Pig on artillery make all that disappear? Maybe still some concussion but probably a lot less noise. Like 3’ wide by 5’ feet long, instead of the traditional muzzle break? Or would that cause too much kick back on the artillery? Neva bin dun befo https://freerangeamerican.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Screen-Shot-2021-12-28-at-4.54.02-PM-copy-1024x657.jpg https://freerangeamerican.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Screen-Shot-2021-12-28-at-4.54.10-PM-copy-1024x658.jpg Not that extravagant. A Flaming pig directs all sound forward and most of the explosion at least on an AR15. It’s basically a muzzle break which is a cone, thin to wide going out. Redirecting sound and blast all forward. Something tells me a linear comp would make shooting Green Bag feel like Red Bag w/o a larger borevac and a substantial upgrayedd to the recoil components |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 6:52:57 AM EST
[#42]
Alternate theory. Any chance they were exposed to something in the soil that’s causing these symptoms. Those artillery pieces throw a shit ton of dust into the air when they fire and breathing that in day after day during a deployment could have allowed, parasites, prions, or viruses into their bodies. Be interested to see if they tested for anything like that before telling the guys sorry you need a shrink.
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Posted: 11/6/2023 6:56:58 AM EST
[#43]
The vast majority of PTSD cases are absolutely bs. It needs to be called out so that those genuinely sick don't have to sit in shame next to some welfare rat while they wait for their next pshyc exam. I know a lot of people that refuse any kind of medical simply because they don't want to be around nor associated with the sea of shammers.
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:11:10 AM EST
[#44]
One more reason all the towed guns should be 105mm.
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:18:47 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New American Military Artillery men are pussies. Had bad dreams after deployment, . While there, never missed a meal , 3 hots and a cot. Tough duty. ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: New American Military Artillery men are pussies. Had bad dreams after deployment, . While there, never missed a meal , 3 hots and a cot. Tough duty. ?? TBI doesn’t care how how much of a “hard man” you are. It’s literally brain damage Quoted: Tell that to the men that went ashore at Normandy or fought with entrenching tools in the WWII pacific theater. ?? I always love the “WWII vets didn’t get PTSD”. Those guys got it at likely higher rates (human wave tactics go brrrr) but back then there wasn’t the megaphone that is the internet to bring light to the issue. Also, lil bit of cultural stupidity of “getting help is weak” and “anyone who admits to having a problem is weak” is going to skew the issue but hey, I’m betting you fall deep into that camp |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:27:44 AM EST
[#46]
Nvm.
Thx for 86ing that clown. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:32:59 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not trying to sound trite or glib, but when you fight demonic forces, demons will fight back. It’s of Satan…and he’s powerful. Our men and women are fighting on the front lines of a battle that’s not just physical. Spirit world is real. The moment i read about them shelling ISIS and obliterating them i thought of the story of what happened with the demons called “Legion” that inhabited the crazy man in the Bible. How they BEGGED Jesus to stay in physical form and were allowed, by Jesus, to enter the heard of pigs nearby and then the pigs killed themselves by running off a cliff. Eerily similar. I 100% believe that evil drives people to all forms of self destruction and Jesus is the cure. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:48:06 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've helped conduct explosive tbi testing. We bombed a lot of mice at different distances from c4. If I recall the medical studies done by the doctors showed that the threshold for TBI is way below what the military has said is safe by dB levels alone. It's also shown that explosive or shock TBI is cumulative damage. Some studies have shown that helmets make the over pressure worse...In a way you brain is inside a bell and the shock passes through your face and brain then gets reflected off the helmet back through the brain again. If you lucky you will only have memory loss and decreased ability to concentrate later in life. Worst case, you basically have early onset dementia and hallucinations. Severe TBI will show dead areas during a brain scan. When the doctors cut open the mice we blew up they could document physical damage. Memory tests for the mice were degraded for a week to a month. We shot a lot of c4 and shook the mice. We never killed one due to explosions or debris. The doctors killed a few by over sedating a few. The mice were taught how to run mazes and after the TBI explosion they would run the same maze but would require more time or just get lost for awhile. Some were killed and brains studied after a day or two. Others weeks later to try and find correlation of physical damage to mental capacity testing in the mazes. One of my friends, an ex marine earned her PhD doing the explosive testing and proposing new guidelines for safe overpressure and duration of explosive events. She had some PTSD from her time in the sandbox. I think the project was her way of trying to protect fellow soldiers in the future. She is a very good person just trying to do better every day. Thanks for sharing! I thought I was having symptoms of dementia a few years ago. A month + trip to the doc revealed TBI and PTSD. I can better manage the symptoms because I’m now aware of what happened to my body/mind after 26 years of the Army/more than a few deployments to Iraq/Afghanistan. I’m 48 and was truly afraid/depressed with my symptoms. I’d be standing in my basement (not sure how long I’d been there) and suddenly realize I had no idea why I was there, how long I’d been there, or how o got down there. This would occur so often that it scared the crap out of me and compelled me to see a doc. Understanding the the physical changes to the mind body based on TBI + years of overactive flight/fight response helps much. I recommend the book “The Body Keeps the Score” for anyone interested in better understanding PTSD. Again, thanks for sharing the good work your friend is accomplishing! |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:58:24 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interestingly, very low instances of this from AC-130 crew. Shoot 100 105mm rounds, all the 40mm and 25mm, as fast as you can and no problems. While you can definitely feel the aircraft being kicked by the 105 recoil, all the blast and overpressure is outside the aircraft. We did have the occasional person get in a bad mental place from what we did. It was mainly from the thought of what they were doing, or the "creeping feelings of doom" that it would be their turn next. Usually fixed without losing the person to a new career. Now, don't get me started on all the weird cancers and tumors that seem to happen more frequently than normal. I've crewed both 105mm and 155mm howitzers. There is a massive difference in the concussive blast from firing them. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:59:58 AM EST
[#50]
Holy shit. You guys didn’t read.
A.) the article isn’t about PTSD it’s about blast effects on high tempo artillery unit troops. B.) this isn’t new info, the artillery already knew to limit exposure, especially to high charge missions. C.) yes, every dude with a 13 or 08 series MOS will now want a VA Disability and every shitbird will now blame his discharge on lanyard pulling, but doesn’t mean there aren’t lots of legit brain injury. Some of what we are calling PTSD is brain injury. D.) these guys are complaining about seeing a little Arab girl a few times in their apartments? I know some non-combat Navy and USAF vets from the 60s, 70s and 80s who have been seeing a little brown woman in their house for decades. Never goes away. |
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