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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:15:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag? Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
Flying the soviet flag is a good way to get democrats and the left-wing-media to support the Russians. I remember when some of those people fantasized about the ussr taking over the USA. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:18:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tanks have been obsolete overpriced logistical nightmares for a while now. It's the strategic equivalent of a fat redneck who uses a monster truck for beer runs. Maybe our own leadership will take notes,... but I doubt it. That's why the Army is bringing mobile protected firepower(AKA tanks or tank like systems) to its light divisions. That's why the new heavy and exploitation/penetration divisions are armor centric. All because tanks are obsolete. Tanks all alone or tanks getting schwacked in an anti armor ambush is a human problem, not a tank problem. <---I hate tanks and mechanized shit. Tanks aren't obsolete. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:22:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the Egyptian front of the Yom Kippur War did that. Yeah, it's not a recent development. MBTs have their place, when you control the air and the populace isn't equiped. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:23:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryIs that the Biden liar? |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:27:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that the Biden liar? |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:41:45 PM EDT
[#6]
One of the reasons the USMC got rid of theirs. The cons negated the pros. Modern ATGMS like the Javelin are a game changer, you can negate a main battle tank at a fraction of the cost, logistics, upkeep, crews, training, etc.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:42:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ginger Goebbels. HA!! Exactly. Well said. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:49:09 PM EDT
[#8]
I think the world learned that during the Arab-Israeli wars.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 3:53:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the world learned that during the Arab-Israeli wars. How did that work out in 1991? |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 4:01:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Tanks need infantry support. Tanks by themselves are much easier targets.
I do not know if the Javelin can take out the newest Abrams but it can disable one for sure. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 4:12:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tanks have been obsolete overpriced logistical nightmares for a while now. It's the strategic equivalent of a fat redneck who uses a monster truck for beer runs. Maybe our own leadership will take notes,... but I doubt it. I take distinct offense to that. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 6:49:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if this has been posted. That’s a lot of damage. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:07:38 PM EDT
[#13]
dibs on salvage stuff
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:18:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How well do modern AT weapons fare against the newest version of the M-1? No one is going to put that information out because most programs are SAP/TS. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:38:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Not sure anyone mentioned it, but the Israeli's have had an active missile defense system for vehicles for quite a while. Initially developed to protect against RPG's, it probably works just as well against other types.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_ Trophy (Israel Defense Forces designation ???? ???, lit. "Windbreaker") is a military active protection system (APS) designed to protect vehicles from ATGMs, RPGs, anti-tank rockets, and tank HEAT rounds.[2] A small number of explosively formed projectiles destroy incoming threats before they hit the vehicle.[3] Its principal purpose is to supplement the armour of light and heavy armored fighting vehicles. Developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd. of Israel and currently fielding over 1,000 systems to all major Israeli ground combat platforms (Merkava Mark 3 & 4 and Namer APCs), as well as U.S. Abrams M1A1/2, and tested on the Stryker APCs and Bradley AFVs. Trophy protects against a wide variety of anti-tank threats, while also maximizing the vehicle's ability to identify enemy location to crews and combat formation, thereby providing greater survivability and maneuverability in all combat  Israeli Rafael Trophy APS Active Protection System tested on Bradley hull IFV September 2018 . |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:49:44 PM EDT
[#16]
The USSR lost about 1800 tanks in the Battle of Berlin in WW2. They've been blowing up for a long time when constrained by city buildings.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:32:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The USSR lost about 1800 tanks in the Battle of Berlin in WW2. They've been blowing up for a long time when constrained by city buildings. Prolly a lot of lend-lease Shermans. Who would have thought? Commies be commies. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:33:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if this has been posted. Thats a lot of toasted heavy metal much of it flew all over the place too, must have been some crazy explosions. That old man is weaving a tapestry of profanity about the issue. every phrase ends with a curse and half are nothing but curses |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:50:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prolly a lot of lend-lease Shermans. Who would have thought? Commies be commies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The USSR lost about 1800 tanks in the Battle of Berlin in WW2. They've been blowing up for a long time when constrained by city buildings. Prolly a lot of lend-lease Shermans. Who would have thought? Commies be commies. Quite a few T-34s got smoked as well |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:40:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prolly a lot of lend-lease Shermans. Who would have thought? Commies be commies. Mostly T-34s. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:47:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure anyone mentioned it, but the Israeli's have had an active missile defense system for vehicles for quite a while. Initially developed to protect against RPG's, it probably works just as well against other types. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_ Trophy (Israel Defense Forces designation ???? ???, lit. "Windbreaker") is a military active protection system (APS) designed to protect vehicles from ATGMs, RPGs, anti-tank rockets, and tank HEAT rounds.[2] A small number of explosively formed projectiles destroy incoming threats before they hit the vehicle.[3] Its principal purpose is to supplement the armour of light and heavy armored fighting vehicles. Developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd. of Israel and currently fielding over 1,000 systems to all major Israeli ground combat platforms (Merkava Mark 3 & 4 and Namer APCs), as well as U.S. Abrams M1A1/2, and tested on the Stryker APCs and Bradley AFVs. Trophy protects against a wide variety of anti-tank threats, while also maximizing the vehicle's ability to identify enemy location to crews and combat formation, thereby providing greater survivability and maneuverability in all combat  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aA9HsmLHBQ. The US started adding Trophy APS several years ago. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:51:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is an example of a strategic PFC. PFC Jorgensen thinks it would be cool to put the old Soviet Union flag on his tank and the world goes apeshit You don't see democrats making a stink out of it, do you? |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:52:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that some sort of reactive armor- those big white pillows? That was the result of a My Pillow bulk sale. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:55:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Thermobaric awesomness has begun.
 ?? Ukraine War - Massive Thermobaric Blast In Cherkasy Oblast Reported |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:55:43 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:58:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not well on the ones with APS Lots of T-90’s got smoked in the past few days. Russian APS sucks. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 10:59:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't see democrats making a stink out of it, do you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is an example of a strategic PFC. PFC Jorgensen thinks it would be cool to put the old Soviet Union flag on his tank and the world goes apeshit You don't see democrats making a stink out of it, do you? I suppose all true, but not exactly Masters Of Propaganda, letting that happen. While the US is way too woke, this is akin to German units putting Nazi Flags on their Amor while raiding a Jewish compound, while the world is watching. Few commanders should have let that happen, knowing the Propaganda Gift that would be if nothing else. Just yet another example of Russia demonstrating a haphazard degree of competency is this entire thing. |
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Posted: 3/2/2022 4:57:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did that work out in 1991? Denzel Washington and company went to town. Unfortunately, he lit up one of his own. |
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Posted: 3/2/2022 5:10:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did that work out in 1991? Most Iraqi tanks and APCs were taken out by air and tanks/Bradley TOW missiles. Man-portable AT weapons did not figure strongly in Desert Storm. I personally know of one T-72 that was popped by an AT4, broadside hit from about 50 meters, but I believe it was already abandoned or a mobility kill at the time. |
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Posted: 3/2/2022 5:19:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Missed my point though. People declared the tank obsolete in 1973 but apparently something happened to make it relevant again in 1991.
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Posted: 3/2/2022 5:21:37 PM EDT
[#31]
We've known that tanks are vulnerable to ATGMs for a while now.
The issue still in question is how vulnerable these new modern ATGMs are to the infantry that supports the tanks. Older missiles = supporting infantry fucked you up pretty quick if you tried it. These new weapons? We still don't really know. |
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Posted: 3/2/2022 5:48:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Denzel Washington and company went to town. Unfortunately, he lit up one of his own. Underrated movie when Meg Ryan was still cute. |
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Posted: 3/2/2022 6:06:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of T-90’s got smoked in the past few days. Russian APS sucks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not well on the ones with APS Lots of T-90’s got smoked in the past few days. Russian APS sucks. T-90's dont have a hard kill system, they can only jam optically/command guided munitions from the front. Javelins are self guiding and top attack, so they will be mostly unaffected. NLAW is self guided non-optical, so completely unaffected. Dumb rockets don't care either. |
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Posted: 3/4/2022 11:44:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the reasons the USMC got rid of theirs. The cons negated the pros. Modern ATGMS like the Javelin are a game changer, you can negate a main battle tank at a fraction of the cost, logistics, upkeep, crews, training, etc. The USMC is absolutely, undeniably infantry-centric, and that community has always had little regard for heavy armor right up until the point they needed it during wartime. I know because I held two infantry MOSs and have seen and understand the mindset that's utterly horrified that MBTs cost so much to maintain and support logistically. The quantities of POL alone is enough to give some in the infantry an aneurism. History shows that someone will soon develop an effective countermeasure to the current threat to tanks; in this case direct and top-attack ATGMs and SUASs (for now), and suddenly tanks will be the greatest thing since sliced white bread again. In the meantime, the USMC will have to completely reinvent the wheel to develop the integration developed over several decades but was thrown away so dismissively less than two years ago. My impression? That's what happens when you have a CMC that won't ask Congress for the money required to support a force structure that's known to work and is flailing about in an effort to "define its mission" while pleasing his political masters. |
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