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Link Posted: 1/20/2018 3:13:57 PM EDT
[#1]
I’m still chuckling about “but muh safe ‘space.’” We already have the Captain Kirks. The only thing left is the ships. There are one or two other countries on this planet that can pull together the monolithic will and resources and they have already caught us napping once.
Link Posted: 1/20/2018 3:23:38 PM EDT
[#2]
I would prefer that money be spent figuring out how to feed, clothe, shelter, and care for all the people currently on earth than spending all those resources looking to go somewhere else.  I guess the plan is for those who go somewhere else to simply leave all those who aren't fed, and otherwise cared for behind.
Link Posted: 1/20/2018 3:37:12 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
I would prefer that money be spent figuring out how to feed, clothe, shelter, and care for all the people currently on earth than spending all those resources looking to go somewhere else.  I guess the plan is for those who go somewhere else to simply leave all those who aren't fed, and otherwise cared for behind.
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sure
Link Posted: 1/20/2018 3:54:42 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
I would prefer that money be spent figuring out how to feed, clothe, shelter, and care for all the people currently on earth than spending all those resources looking to go somewhere else.  I guess the plan is for those who go somewhere else to simply leave all those who aren't fed, and otherwise cared for behind.
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How do you demonstrate your concern with your personal time and money?

Why do you think they need your concern to steer my time and money to that need?

Why do you think they have no ability to figure that out for themselves?

Why do you feel it necessary to hijack our resources and steer them toward people who will consume them only because it is easier than taking care of themselves?

Why do you feel it is an either/or proposition?

When people like me see people like you show up with concerns like this, we understand what you are really saying. The iron fist in the velvet glove always picks itself to benefit first and most when it camps on the shore of the river of rescources and says “look what good I am doing when I let you bring a straw to drink.”

When good things happen anywhere, it is in spite of people like you, not because of you. When humanity achieves great things, it is because they were able to defend their actions from the locusts that would plague the great crops of human achievement.
Link Posted: 1/20/2018 5:12:42 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
If you want to give yourself some perspective on risk, the next time you are in a low light pollution area, look up and start counting 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi... It won’t take many before you see meteors, A few minutes at the most. Yes it’s neat to see the little fireball dying in the air. What I have also seen is a little line that illuminates for a tiny fraction of a second. That was a small object going unusually fast. Everything is out there. The larger they are the rarer they are. The faster they are the less mass they need to have an disparate effect on an object they impact. The exact same physics that work for the 5.56 round apply to planets. One of the videos I looked at examined the effect of a 30 meter diamond ball impacting earth at various speeds, fractions of the speed of light. Those are extremely unlikely to be a problem for us but being small and fast we’d have no chance to see something like that coming. And what if we did? As previously pointed out, there is a small window of opportunity and a small range of object types we could hope to affect.

No offense but this is hilariously naive.

Here is a story to give a little perspective with a very non-alarmist slant to avoid panicking the turtles crossing the highway. Wait till one gets really close.

As far as what do we do to acquire science fiction hyperdrive spaceships to go warp speed to the star of our choice, that is ignoring the answer to the real question “what can we do with what we have?” The link I posted to the Grand Tour is opportunity. The timing is what it is-a window of opportunity a doable time in the future. When you plan from A to Z, launching large amounts equipment into orbit, going to work on an asteroid, building a ship, sending it on its way using the planetary alignment to launch ourselves out of the Solar System in the direction of likely habitable zone planets we have already discovered. It will take hundreds of years to make the journey with what we have now. But show me where the science breaks down? The only “blue sky” we are looking at is fusion technology isn’t mature enough to be useful. Yet.

What we are lacking is the motive, and that will be found when somebody wants us to pay 1% tax on tea or we read the Zimmerman telegram or someone sinks a passenger ship or puts a beeping satellite over our heads or flies airplanes into our buildings. Whatever it is, it has to be the kind of thing people the likes of TetonCounty get.

What kind of impact on Americans did funding the space race have? It was nothing like past war efforts and I am quite confident it wouldn’t have any more than that when we get to work in space again.
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Quoted:
If you want to give yourself some perspective on risk, the next time you are in a low light pollution area, look up and start counting 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi... It won’t take many before you see meteors, A few minutes at the most. Yes it’s neat to see the little fireball dying in the air. What I have also seen is a little line that illuminates for a tiny fraction of a second. That was a small object going unusually fast. Everything is out there. The larger they are the rarer they are. The faster they are the less mass they need to have an disparate effect on an object they impact. The exact same physics that work for the 5.56 round apply to planets. One of the videos I looked at examined the effect of a 30 meter diamond ball impacting earth at various speeds, fractions of the speed of light. Those are extremely unlikely to be a problem for us but being small and fast we’d have no chance to see something like that coming. And what if we did? As previously pointed out, there is a small window of opportunity and a small range of object types we could hope to affect.

Quoted:

In your scenario nothing in our solar system would be safe. How do you suggest we get to another star system without invoking scifi technology?
No offense but this is hilariously naive.

Here is a story to give a little perspective with a very non-alarmist slant to avoid panicking the turtles crossing the highway. Wait till one gets really close.

As far as what do we do to acquire science fiction hyperdrive spaceships to go warp speed to the star of our choice, that is ignoring the answer to the real question “what can we do with what we have?” The link I posted to the Grand Tour is opportunity. The timing is what it is-a window of opportunity a doable time in the future. When you plan from A to Z, launching large amounts equipment into orbit, going to work on an asteroid, building a ship, sending it on its way using the planetary alignment to launch ourselves out of the Solar System in the direction of likely habitable zone planets we have already discovered. It will take hundreds of years to make the journey with what we have now. But show me where the science breaks down? The only “blue sky” we are looking at is fusion technology isn’t mature enough to be useful. Yet.

What we are lacking is the motive, and that will be found when somebody wants us to pay 1% tax on tea or we read the Zimmerman telegram or someone sinks a passenger ship or puts a beeping satellite over our heads or flies airplanes into our buildings. Whatever it is, it has to be the kind of thing people the likes of TetonCounty get.

What kind of impact on Americans did funding the space race have? It was nothing like past war efforts and I am quite confident it wouldn’t have any more than that when we get to work in space again.
I was replying to the scenario of a sun/black hole intruding on our solar system. As the poster of that scenario said there is ZERO recourse to prevent destruction of Earth and the rest of the solar system should that happen.

What is "hilariously naive" are people thinking we can colonize another solar system with any technology known to man.
Let me lay out the challenges for you.

Closest star is over 4 light years away. Traveling at 0.1C is a >40 year one way trip so you will by necessity have to have a 'generational' ship if you want to colonize an exoplanet.

In a previous post I showed that getting a 500 ton ship to an exoplanet @ 0.1C will require the energy equivalent of 40,000 tons of U235  assuming 100% efficiency.
Where is your energy source and how do you fit it into a 500 ton ship?


Traveling at 0.1C makes any debris you hit larger than a pin head a catastrophic event. (1 gram @ 0.1C has 450000000000 J of kinetic energy equal to ~ 240,000 pounds of TNT.)
How do you plan to avoid impacts on this 40 year journey or absorb even a "small" debris hit?

Given the 40 year trip you will need to "grow" your own food and have near 100% recycling. All on a 500 ton ship.

You will need artificial gravity to avoid the deterioration & death of the crew. That requires a large spinning portion of the ship for crew habitat.

How do you pick your destination? It will need to be suitable for human life "as found" unless you plan on teraforming the planet, using what came in a 500 ton ship.
How do you find a suitable planet  >4 light years away with any degree of certainty? If you get it wrong it's "end of mission".

Those are just some of the technical challenges in a trip to the stars.

My example 500 ton ship is way to small to cover the requirements of interstellar travel. The International Space station weighs 460 tons and has no blast shields, no gravity, no engines and does not provide replenishment food.

So tell me who is hilariously naive?

Locating near earth threats and having a method to deflect impacts is possible with todays technology but not with todays political and economic realities. Same goes for human interplanetary travel.

Link to a technical discussion on interstellar travel - Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society

Bad News: Interstellar Travel May Remain in Science Fiction


Some sobering news from a recent rocket science conference: It is highly improbable that humans will ever explore beyond the Solar System. This downbeat opinion comes from the Joint Propulsion Conference in Hartford, Connecticut, where future space propulsion challenges were discussed and debated. It is widely acknowledged that any form of interstellar travel would require huge advances in technology, but it would seem that the advances required are in the realms of science fiction and are not feasible. Using current technology would take tens of thousands of years, and even advanced concepts could take hundreds. But above all else, there is the question of fuel: How could a trip to Proxima Centauri be achieved if we’d need 100 times more energy than the entire planet currently generates?

In a previous article on the Universe Today, I explored how long it would take to travel to the nearest star using the slowest mode of transportation (the ion driven 1998 Deep Space 1 mission) and the fastest mode of transportation (the solar gravitational accelerated 1976 Helios 2 mission) currently available. I also discussed the theoretical possibility of using nuclear pulse propulsion (a series of fusion bombs dropped behind an interplanetary spaceship to give thrust), much like the 1970’s Daedalus star ship concept (pictured top).

Unfortunately, the ion drive option would take a whopping 81,000 years to get to Proxima Centauri, our nearest star, and using the Sun for a gravitational assist would still take us at least 19,000 years to reach our destination. That is 2,700 to 600 generations, certainly a long-term commitment! To put these figures into perspective, 2,700 generations ago, homo sapiens had not developed the ability to communicate by speech; 600 generations ago the Neanderthals had only recently become extinct. The nuclear pulse propulsion option seems far better taking only 85 years to travel to our nearest star. Still, this is a very long trip (let’s hope they’d offer business class at least…).

Already there are huge challenges facing the notion of travelling to Proxima Centauri, but in a recent gathering of experts in the field of space propulsion, there are even more insurmountable obstacles to mankind’s spread beyond the Solar System. In response to the idea we might make the Proxima trek in a single lifetime, Paulo Lozano, an assistant professor of aeronautics and astronautics at MIT and conference deligate said, “In those cases, you are talking about a scale of engineering that you can’t even imagine.”

OK, so the speed simply isn’t there for a quick flight over 4.3 light years. But there is an even bigger problem than that. How would these interstellar spaceships be fuelled? According to Brice N. Cassenti, an associate professor with the Department of Engineering and Science at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, at least 100 times the total energy output of the entire world would be required for the voyage. “We just can’t extract the resources from the Earth,” Cassenti said during his conference presentation. “They just don’t exist. We would need to mine the outer planets.”

For mankind to extend its reach into the stars, we need to come up with a better plan. Even the most advanced forms of propulsion (even anti-matter engines) cannot make the gap seem any less massive. Suddenly the thought of a warp drive seems more attractive…
Link Posted: 1/20/2018 9:32:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:

In your scenario nothing in our solar system would be safe. How do you suggest we get to another star system without invoking scifi technology?
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Your question with the presumption that anything in the solar system can be assumed to be safe is what’s funny.

I will try to take this in small bites.


I was replying to the scenario of a sun/black hole intruding on our solar system. As the poster of that scenario said there is ZERO recourse to prevent destruction of Earth and the rest of the solar system should that happen.

What is "hilariously naive" are people thinking we can colonize another solar system with any technology known to man.
Let me lay out the challenges for you.

Closest star is over 4 light years away. Traveling at 0.1C is a >40 year one way trip so you will by necessity have to have a 'generational' ship if you want to colonize an exoplanet.

In a previous post I showed that getting a 500 ton ship to an exoplanet @ 0.1C will require the energy equivalent of 40,000 tons of U235 assuming 100% efficiency.
Where is your energy source and how do you fit it into a 500 ton ship?
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Regarding the suns in our solar system, I will let someone else dig out the story but it already happened. As I recall a few years back we figured out that a pair of small suns passed through our solar system 70,000 years ago.

Our discussion of reaching out from the solar system is hilariously naive at its core but your question was funny and now you’re trying to flip the script. I still enjoy the discussion.

The ship that might make such a journey will have to be a long term large, nuclear powered generational ship. Size and mass are trade offs but not necessarily liabilities.

My fuel is water. It is on Ceres. It is within the realm of today’s technology to launch equipment that would be landed on Ceres, extract water from the icy crust or if feasible, the liquid ocean that may lie below the crust. It would have a fission reactor for power (today’s tech.) Mechanical power, electricity and heat are produced. Now we are extracting water and putting it into orbit. The escape velocity of Ceres is .51 km/s. We are putting ice blocks into orbit using a launch tube. The propellant would be hydrogen and oxygen created by electrolysis (using electrical power from the reactor) and launch the block outward at >1700 feet per second if my math is correct.

I don’t fit it into the ship, I fit the ship into it. A ship consisting of a framework embedded into ice would be strengthened and protected by it.


Traveling at 0.1C makes any debris you hit larger than a pin head a catastrophic event. (1 gram @ 0.1C has 450000000000 J of kinetic energy equal to ~ 240,000 pounds of TNT.)
How do you plan to avoid impacts on this 40 year journey or absorb even a "small" debris hit?
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You’re not flying blind. With a thick ice shield you can take some punishment. You are also scanning ahead and if you detect a one gram meteor in your way, throw a few three gram ice cubes out front to absorb the energy. Your ice hull is a shell with hollow cavities and when it is penetrated and the interior ice is cratered, the fractured ice is captured in the cavity structures and not lost to space. Melting ice, flowing water to where it is needed and letting it refreeze is your outer hull repair.


Given the 40 year trip you will need to "grow" your own food and have near 100% recycling. All on a 500 ton ship.

You will need artificial gravity to avoid the deterioration & death of the crew. That requires a large spinning portion of the ship for crew habitat.

How do you pick your destination? It will need to be suitable for human life "as found" unless you plan on teraforming the planet, using what came in a 500 ton ship.
How do you find a suitable planet >4 light years away with any degree of certainty? If you get it wrong it's "end of mission".

Those are just some of the technical challenges in a trip to the stars.

My example 500 ton ship is way to small to cover the requirements of interstellar travel. The International Space station weighs 460 tons and has no blast shields, no gravity, no engines and does not provide replenishment food.

So tell me who is hilariously naive?

Locating near earth threats and having a method to deflect impacts is possible with todays technology but not with todays political and economic realities. Same goes for human interplanetary travel.
View Quote
I would not argue with a single thing above. The ship I propose is only to make the point the it is existing tech that could get us on our way and could get us out of the solar system with today’s technology. At that point you are skateboarding to Iceland. But really, the problem that needs to be solved is simple-endurance and speed. The answer, go faster, seems ludicrously beyond us now but but someday the math may start to pencil out.

Edit: Im going to point out your link is a scientific discussion of interplanetary travel being discussed by scientists and “hilarious” is not an accurate characterization of their treatment of the subject.

Also, with respect to the above ship, larger also better accommodates a rotating section.
Link Posted: 1/20/2018 11:32:57 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:

What we are lacking is the motive, and that will be found when somebody wants us to pay 1% tax on tea or we read the Zimmerman telegram or someone sinks a passenger ship or puts a beeping satellite over our heads or flies airplanes into our buildings.
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Quoted:

What we are lacking is the motive, and that will be found when somebody wants us to pay 1% tax on tea or we read the Zimmerman telegram or someone sinks a passenger ship or puts a beeping satellite over our heads or flies airplanes into our buildings.
Quoted:

Something really big, and really fast hitting us is a low probability, high consequence event. Actually for the human race it's a fatal event. Because we don't do anything long-term. We only react to problems. If we sit around waiting for Captain Kirk to show up with the Enterprise, before we move off this planet, we're doomed. By the time we know something is heading our way, it will be too late. Kiss your species goodbye.
Very well put.  The popular conspiracy theory holds that FDR knew the Jap attack on Pearl Harbor was coming, but he did nothing, and allowed the attack to happen with zero warning, in all it's horror and death, to kick America's butt into a war he believed we VERY much needed to be in.  As cold and heartless as it sounds, I would VERY much like to see us get hit with a fairly major meteor, big enough to wipe out say several million to a billion people, just to slap humanity in the face that yeah, we REALLY need to be spending major time & money working on this problem.  It seems humans don't do shit until the house is actually on fire; then they get off their fucking asses and get shit done.  Fucking sad.
Link Posted: 1/21/2018 12:06:26 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
I would prefer that money be spent figuring out how to feed, clothe, shelter, and care for all the people currently on earth than spending all those resources looking to go somewhere else.  I guess the plan is for those who go somewhere else to simply leave all those who aren't fed, and otherwise cared for behind.
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I honestly cannot understand people like you.  Are you REALLY not getting this, or are you just trolling?  If an extinction-level-event asteroid hits us, we're ALL going to die: rich and poor, black and white, male and female, gay and straight, communist and capitalist.  ALL.  Of.  Us.  Really, there will be no "Rich man's first class" where the well heeled will be safe, when the whole fucking planet is blown to pieces.

Space colonies are not just rich kids tooling around the bay in their billionaire daddy's multi-million dollar yacht, having a good time while the poor starve; they are a way that the ENTIRE human species can (hopefully) survive.  I'm really not trying to be insulting here, really I'm not: but are you stupid?  Are you so incredibly dense that you cannot see that the earth being torn to pieces, and everyone dying in the vacuum of space, is not a "rich vs. poor" issue?!?
Link Posted: 1/21/2018 11:54:31 PM EDT
[#9]
This is relevant to the discussion. Now up the speeds by a factor of a million and you have a real icebreaker.
Link Posted: 1/22/2018 1:07:09 PM EDT
[#10]
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/roadmap_to_interstellar_flight_tagged.pdf

Lecture video

Here's a very short video on NASA's 360 channel.



We have the technology, right now, to send unmanned probes out, at relativistic speeds.   Basically, we can reach Alpha Centauri in 15 years.   If we decided to do it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2018 6:13:14 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
This is relevant to the discussion. Now up the speeds by a factor of a million and you have a real icebreaker.
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Pretty neat. We should shoot those bb's at a metal cone with a narrow angle, to test how well the bb's can be deflected. Lets use the same sheet aluminum as the HDD's.

That would be like angling armor to deflect a bullet. Never been done before.
Link Posted: 1/24/2018 5:29:26 PM EDT
[#12]
10 Unsettling Solutions to the Fermi Paradox
Link Posted: 1/24/2018 5:55:45 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I honestly cannot understand people like you.  Are you REALLY not getting this, or are you just trolling?  If an extinction-level-event asteroid hits us, we're ALL going to die: rich and poor, black and white, male and female, gay and straight, communist and capitalist.  ALL.  Of.  Us.  Really, there will be no "Rich man's first class" where the well heeled will be safe, when the whole fucking planet is blown to pieces.

Space colonies are not just rich kids tooling around the bay in their billionaire daddy's multi-million dollar yacht, having a good time while the poor starve; they are a way that the ENTIRE human species can (hopefully) survive.  I'm really not trying to be insulting here, really I'm not: but are you stupid?  Are you so incredibly dense that you cannot see that the earth being torn to pieces, and everyone dying in the vacuum of space, is not a "rich vs. poor" issue?!?
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I'm very much in the "Sol system first" camp, and I think it can't be reiterated enough that the technology and capability we need to have industry and colonies off-world is the same capability we need to mitigate threats to our world. Something like a star is a VERY low probability event compared to the comets and rocks that we're learning are much higher probability than we'd thought, if not for ELEs then for catastrophic humanitarian and economic losses. The ability to mitigate those losses WILL be a net economic positive on a long enough timeline.
Link Posted: 1/24/2018 7:42:56 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:

Pretty neat. We should shoot those bb's at a metal cone with a narrow angle, to test how well the bb's can be deflected. Lets use the same sheet aluminum as the HDD's.

That would be like angling armor to deflect a bullet. Never been done before.
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At those speeds I think deflection ceases to to be a factor. You have to deal with high energy mass and a possible strategy to reduce impact will be to apply enough energy to it to cause it to disintegrate.  One method would be to hit it with a directed energy beam in time to have an effect. Then/or send your own object out to meet it before your main hull makes contact. A reactive object such as a hydrogen filled pellet at relativistic speeds might serve as a small nuclear fusion detonation to more effectively destroy a hazardous object.

Israeli tanks had a type of armor that resisted armor piercing by using 2 layers electrified that basically shorted and turned the penetrator to plasma between them. The same principle might be useful here. Then you are dealing with molecules or gas instead of solid particles and the energy is diffused against your hull.
Link Posted: 1/27/2018 12:41:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Why would we need to out our minds out in the universe, when the universe already created us?

The very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically.
Link Posted: 1/27/2018 7:42:04 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Why would we need to out our minds out in the universe, when the universe already created us?

The very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically.
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Yes, well, we might very well be dead in that little process.  Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen said that there are exactly as many atoms in a living body as a dead one; I think you'll agree there is a bit of a difference there, tho.  I'd still like to have a colony on Mars, or even better, Alpha Centauri, if for no other reason than just so we can save all those priceless episodes of Jersey Shore, and the no-doubt irreplaceable "music" of Snoop Puppy-Pup.
Link Posted: 1/28/2018 5:37:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Agreed.
We should be on Mars already.
Link Posted: 1/28/2018 9:01:36 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Agreed.
We should be on Mars already.
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Yes, if we had the will, we could already have new frontiers.   I think since we've run out of terrestrial frontiers, we're now ready to expand.   Intelligent, aggressive, ambitious, androcentric people will always seek out new frontiers.

Earth will be the domain of sensitive, gynocentric SJW's.
Link Posted: 1/28/2018 9:20:31 PM EDT
[#19]
I actually think it will be easy once we start. If you look at what was developed in a short time to reach the moon it was amazing.
If we had continued at that place we would be on Mars today!
Yes there would have been growing pains.
Link Posted: 2/4/2018 12:16:29 AM EDT
[#20]
"Space elevators" (basically trains into space) are the answer to your needs to boost boku freight up into space... which is what we really need to make space exploration a reality (same as how trains were really "how the West was won" against the Injuns, not the 1873 Winchester, the "gun that won the West" ).  Moving tons of material to where you need it is really how mankind takes over an area.

Space Elevators & Orbital Tethers
Link Posted: 2/4/2018 1:15:06 AM EDT
[#21]
I would genuinely be proud af if my great grandchildren conquered a planet
Link Posted: 2/5/2018 5:54:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Life in a Space Colony, ep2: Colony Spaceships
Link Posted: 2/9/2018 1:24:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 2/9/2018 1:46:18 AM EDT
[#24]
as a whole, "we" eat tide pods for inta-twitter likes.....and we have shit holes left in this world

No
Link Posted: 2/9/2018 1:56:10 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
"Space elevators" (basically trains into space) are the answer to your needs to boost boku freight up into space... which is what we really need to make space exploration a reality (same as how trains were really "how the West was won" against the Injuns, not the 1873 Winchester, the "gun that won the West" ).  Moving tons of material to where you need it is really how mankind takes over an area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc8_AuzeYKE
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It's REALLY hard to make an elevator work in Earth's gravity well. I mean so hard it's almost certainly cheaper to lift everything we need to build everything we need in space with BFRs. You not only need exotic materials but you need a LOT of exotic materials and you need to replace those materials constantly and the benefit over really well-developed heavy lift like we'll have long before we can build an elevator is minimal at best. It's also incredibly risky and vulnerable to terror and such, a space elevator crashing to Earth would be a catastrophe just because of how much it costs to build one. Maybe in the far future.

It would be much more feasible on the moon though. There are some really interesting things you can do with tethers, but I think technology has moved in a direction where they don't make much sense anymore.
Link Posted: 2/26/2018 1:28:44 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:

It's REALLY hard to make an elevator work in Earth's gravity well. I mean so hard it's almost certainly cheaper to lift everything we need to build everything we need in space with BFRs. You not only need exotic materials but you need a LOT of exotic materials and you need to replace those materials constantly and the benefit over really well-developed heavy lift like we'll have long before we can build an elevator is minimal at best. It's also incredibly risky and vulnerable to terror and such, a space elevator crashing to Earth would be a catastrophe just because of how much it costs to build one. Maybe in the far future.

It would be much more feasible on the moon though. There are some really interesting things you can do with tethers, but I think technology has moved in a direction where they don't make much sense anymore.
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I love the idea, but yeah, it's hard to see the practical application.   At least at this point.
Link Posted: 2/26/2018 2:22:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Cheap heavy lift is very close.

Falcon Heavy is here.  BFR and New Glenn will be very soon.

They are enough to make a whole heck of a lot of in space business ventures viable.  The key businesses I refer to are asteroid Mining, asteroid Refining, and Manufacturing.  You only need to get enough Mass up off the Earth to get these three businesses started... and then they will be self supporting and replicating.

Once they're up... you don't need any more mass from Earth (except people).  You can build everything you need from then on using resources in space.  There's so much there for the taking that we would be shipping stuff to Earth not the other way around.

The Moon is a perfect place to build refineries and manufacturing plants.  Direct asteroid to hit in a designated impact zone... collect the pieces and refine them into materials to use to make anything and everything.  Launch using the proven reusable rockets we can build from the very low gravity the Moon has and send goods down to Earth or to moon orbiting ship yards or anywhere else you need things to go.
Link Posted: 2/26/2018 2:27:00 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
Cheap heavy lift is very close.

Falcon Heavy is here.  BFR and New Glenn will be very soon.

They are enough to make a whole heck of a lot of in space business ventures viable.  The key businesses I refer to are asteroid Mining, asteroid Refining, and Manufacturing.  You only need to get enough Mass up off the Earth to get these three businesses started... and then they will be self supporting and replicating.

Once they're up... you don't need any more mass from Earth (except people).  You can build everything you need from then on using resources in space.  There's so much there for the taking that we would be shipping stuff to Earth not the other way around.

The Moon is a perfect place to build refineries and manufacturing plants.  Direct asteroid to hit in a designated impact zone... collect the pieces and refine them into materials to use to make anything and everything.  Launch using the proven reusable rockets we can build from the very low gravity the Moon has and send good down to Earth or to moon orbiting ship yards or anywhere else you need things to go.
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BO has yet to put a single pound into orbit. That shit is a decade behind SpaceX.
Link Posted: 2/26/2018 2:37:15 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


BO has yet to put a single pound into orbit. That shit is a decade behind SpaceX.
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Both SLS and New Glenn are currently scheduled to launch before BFR.

I expect both schedules will slip... and Heck BFR could slip too... They're all in a dead heat to launch around the same time.  But only BFR and New Glenn hold any promise of affordable mass to orbit.
Link Posted: 2/26/2018 3:03:51 AM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:

Genetic modification. A.i., elective surgical replacement of organs and appendages with robotic nanotubes and graphene . .
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Well have fun on the robot reservation, suckers!  We not gonna honor those bogus treaties.
Link Posted: 2/27/2018 6:12:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Cheap heavy lift is very close.

Falcon Heavy is here.  BFR and New Glenn will be very soon.

They are enough to make a whole heck of a lot of in space business ventures viable.  The key businesses I refer to are asteroid Mining, asteroid Refining, and Manufacturing.  You only need to get enough Mass up off the Earth to get these three businesses started... and then they will be self supporting and replicating.

Once they're up... you don't need any more mass from Earth (except people).  You can build everything you need from then on using resources in space.  There's so much there for the taking that we would be shipping stuff to Earth not the other way around.

The Moon is a perfect place to build refineries and manufacturing plants.  Direct asteroid to hit in a designated impact zone... collect the pieces and refine them into materials to use to make anything and everything.  Launch using the proven reusable rockets we can build from the very low gravity the Moon has and send goods down to Earth or to moon orbiting ship yards or anywhere else you need things to go.
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I would love to be alive to see the first viable long term base stood up on the moon, mars, or some other satellite.  The future could be an amazing place.  A thriving space industry could open up the whole solar system.
Link Posted: 2/27/2018 6:25:26 AM EDT
[#32]
I just wanna be a Space Marine
Link Posted: 2/27/2018 9:16:12 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
Quoted:

And yet the Earth has 7 billion people, areas of desert that are now lush, and there are sprawling cities all over the globe. Whoever wrote that movie was a dumbass.
Yeah, we're awesome.

http://www.borgenmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/10-Largest-refugee-camps.jpg
Compared to what every other species on earth has managed to achieved, yeah, even that is pretty impressive.
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