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Posted: 12/23/2018 6:14:29 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something different. Persuade people they need it, make money. It's all about the revenue. |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 6:16:35 PM EST
[#2]
I’ve just assumed that my picatinney rails give me street cred that I’ve been in the AR game for a while.
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Posted: 12/23/2018 6:27:05 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Less materiel is easier to bend then more materiel. No support on the front of the tube = more chance to bend. You can't have all 3. You lose a little accuracy with non ff but gain the most rigid of the 3 and less prone to bending. Full pic ff rail is more rigid then anyone's lite rails and less prone to bending at the cost of weight, but is still has no support at front. Lite rails sacrifice the benefits of the above for savings in weight and better feel. You don't have to be a gun expert to understand this. The same applies to any tool or part. If you are using the same material to build a part, and you use thicker VR thinner and use more support points = stronger but heavier. Now if someone comes up with a lighter material that is stronger! A good quality mlok or keymod rail is durable enough that you will not damage it or lose zero with an IR laser. That is what matters, not dumb shit like "Can I run over it with a car twice?" KAC rails suck and pop off semi-frequently, by the way, hence why the "SAS mod" is putting another lock in the lower handguard portion. Clip ons are trash that are designed so an "armorer" who isn't authorized to use a barrel nut wrench can install them; they're not more durable or better for any purpose. The KAC RASes are a perfect example of what I was talking about above, however, they accomplish a realistic task (drop in and durable enough for fleet fielding), rather than some arbitrary need some guy dreamed up to try to seem cool on the internet, like "I need a rail more durable than a tube made of good quality aluminum for some reason." |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 6:49:42 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you one of those people that thinks you need to be able to hit a rail with a sledgehammer for it to be "durable?" If so, have fun with needlessly heavy shit. A good quality mlok or keymod rail is durable enough that you will not damage it or lose zero with an IR laser. That is what matters, not dumb shit like "Can I run over it with a car twice?" KAC rails suck and pop off semi-frequently, by the way, hence why the "SAS mod" is putting another lock in the lower handguard portion. Clip ons are trash that are designed so an "armorer" who isn't authorized to use a barrel nut wrench can install them; they're not more durable or better for any purpose. The KAC RASes are a perfect example of what I was talking about above, however, they accomplish a realistic task (drop in and durable enough for fleet fielding), rather than some arbitrary need some guy dreamed up to try to seem cool on the internet, like "I need a rail more durable than a tube made of good quality aluminum for some reason." If you are changing your rail every year or "whole rifle" it probably doesn't mater if you bend a rail. |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 6:54:56 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you one of those people that thinks you need to be able to hit a rail with a sledgehammer for it to be "durable?" If so, have fun with needlessly heavy shit. A good quality mlok or keymod rail is durable enough that you will not damage it or lose zero with an IR laser. That is what matters, not dumb shit like "Can I run over it with a car twice?" KAC rails suck and pop off semi-frequently, by the way, hence why the "SAS mod" is putting another lock in the lower handguard portion. Clip ons are trash that are designed so an "armorer" who isn't authorized to use a barrel nut wrench can install them; they're not more durable or better for any purpose. The KAC RASes are a perfect example of what I was talking about above, however, they accomplish a realistic task (drop in and durable enough for fleet fielding), rather than some arbitrary need some guy dreamed up to try to seem cool on the internet, like "I need a rail more durable than a tube made of good quality aluminum for some reason." |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 7:02:19 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DD omegas are cheap? Where are you finding yours? Also DD was the only one who I liked in quad rail. But they had to make the id super thin. If slim rails hadn't taken over I'm sure everyone would have adopted the DD design in some way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Screw all that. DD Omegas on everything. Ladder covers make em comfy. Cheap, strong and free floated. Also DD was the only one who I liked in quad rail. But they had to make the id super thin. If slim rails hadn't taken over I'm sure everyone would have adopted the DD design in some way. Hell, Ive even got an Omega on my S&W M&P sport 2 and it really spruces the thing up. :) |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 8:02:59 PM EST
[#7]
Picatinny is Soldier proof; you can't mess it up. It makes sense for a big institution like the regular military.
MLOK and Keymod make sense but require a little bit of care. MLOK requires a little finesse with the T-nuts, maybe too much for green troops. |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 8:06:05 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve just assumed that my picatinney rails give me street cred that I’ve been in the AR game for a while. |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 9:29:36 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Over a lb for a larue quad in 12in vs 7.75 oz for a 12in 2a Armament handguard. I dunno sounds like a good bit to me?  |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 9:30:43 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I don't need 12 inches of cheese grater over my barrel? Mlok gives me a much thinner grip profile that's not really sharp. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 8:55:38 AM EST
[#11]
Quote History |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 8:59:20 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you cannot see the difference and advantage between the two, I got nothin for ya... |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 9:08:49 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It didnt come with instructions, I'm holding the upper between my knees with needle nose pliers down the tube trying to hold the nut while I tightened a allen wrench with the other. Quad rail you tighten a flat head screw and you're done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
It’s easier to use, shaves a little weight off, is more secure. It’s moe bettah. In reality though it doesn’t matter. 
That’s completely on you. Even when MLOK was in its infancy there was this thing called “the internet” and there were instructions on how to properly use MLOK and MLOK accessories on it. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 9:09:23 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
keyboard commandos with soft girly hands |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 9:09:51 AM EST
[#15]
The lighter MLok rails on guns with suppressors are really nice too. My 10.3" with a KAC FF RAS and a Surefire RC2 feels like holding a 4x6 after a while compared to my 8" Blackout with an SLR Ion Lite.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 9:11:25 AM EST
[#16]
Pic rails have sharp corners that are too much for my girly hands.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 9:42:04 AM EST
[#17]
I have one rifle with standard hand guards, one with a free-float quad rail, and one with a Magpul/M-Lok hand guard.
I'm not changing any of them. They stay as they lay. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 11:12:40 AM EST
[#18]
pic rails take too many moves on the cnc
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Posted: 12/24/2018 11:20:25 AM EST
[#19]
With a picitinny rail I can shoot a burglar then grate some cheese for a cheese crisp while I wait for the police.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 12:10:15 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lighter. Slimmer. Lower profile. Cleaner. More comfortable. Etc. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 12:45:06 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Took me almost an hour to get a magpul mlok handstop on a seekins mcsr handguard. I hope I never have to remove it. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 1:05:44 PM EST
[#22]
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Posted: 12/24/2018 1:15:10 PM EST
[#23]
Lighter weight so people can hang more heavy useless shit.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 1:21:11 PM EST
[#24]
weight and bulk. I got to shoot a rifle with a BCM keymod handguard yesterday, and it is far narrower/easier to hold than my old DD quad rails.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 1:59:52 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lighter weight so people can hang more heavy useless shit. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:13:21 PM EST
[#26]
Cheese graters suck if > 9”
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:13:54 PM EST
[#27]
I like quad pic rails because they don't heat up as fast...can't afford gloves cuz I bought all these damn rails.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:17:36 PM EST
[#28]
What was the point of the AR15 when the Mini 14 was just fine?
What was the point of the MRE when the C-Rat was just fine? What was the point of the Nintendo when the Atari 2600 was just fine? |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:21:26 PM EST
[#29]
Quoted:
It’s easier to use, shaves a little weight off, is more secure. It’s moe bettah. In reality though it doesn’t matter. Quoted:
Because I don't need 12 inches of cheese grater over my barrel? |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:22:35 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I don't need 12 inches of cheese grater over my barrel? |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:24:10 PM EST
[#31]
Full picatinny rails sucked even when they were cool.
Before Keymod and MLock was the Troy BattleRail and the other various slick tubes like the MI SS. All better than Pic. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:26:43 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why I like Keymod better. Not that it takes me an hour to get an MLOK accessory on, but I do find it significantly easier/faster to mount and dismount Keymod accessories. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Took me almost an hour to get a magpul mlok handstop on a seekins mcsr handguard. I hope I never have to remove it. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:28:39 PM EST
[#33]
Personally, I could care less about shaving an ounce off of the weight of a picatinney rail, so the MLOK/KeyMod BS loses. More secure than a picatinney. Unlikely. How would having an MLOK and then having to add a section of picatinney rail make that section of picatinney rail more secure? It doesn't. Picatinney wins again. With picatinney I don't need MLOK. With MLOK I need to buy and then add picatinney rail. Picatinney minus MLOK wins yet again.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:32:37 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Personally, I could care less about shaving an ounce off of the weight of a picatinney rail, so the MLOK/KeyMod BS loses. More secure than a picatinney. Unlikely. How would having an MLOK and then having to add a section of picatinney rail make that section of picatinney rail more secure? It doesn't. Picatinney wins again. With picatinney I don't need MLOK. With MLOK I need to buy and then add picatinney rail. Picatinney minus MLOK wins yet again. Even if you did want to do something like that, though, is much rather have an inch of pic rail where I need it than a pound and a half everywhere I don't. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:34:06 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Mlok gives me a much thinner grip profile that's not really sharp. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because I don't need 12 inches of cheese grater over my barrel? Mlok gives me a much thinner grip profile that's not really sharp. 
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:35:58 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmmmm, I guess that's why they offer rail covers in sections for those "sensitive" people with delicate, baby soft hands, that probably also require hypoallergenic rails. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:38:02 PM EST
[#37]
I have 3 ARs, one quad, one mlok and one with A2 handguards.
The quad is by far the least comfortable once you use the others. Meh oh the weight but there is that too. The mlok is the thinnest, but I love the a2s. My favorite rifle in the army was one I used at the range to qualify when I was a machine gunner. Going from an m240 with all the gadgets to an unassign d m16a4 that had no rails and just a matech buis was so the hotness. Beautiful experience except for forgetting to put my earpro in for the first 20 Rd iteration (foxhole too). Rinnnnnnnng. Rinnnnnnnng. RiiiinnnnnRinnnng (that's when 2 targets cam up) 
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:38:52 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are you adding picatinny, when you can buy direct MLOK and KeyMod attachements? Even if you did want to do something like that, though, is much rather have an inch of pic rail where I need it than a pound and a half everywhere I don't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Personally, I could care less about shaving an ounce off of the weight of a picatinney rail, so the MLOK/KeyMod BS loses. More secure than a picatinney. Unlikely. How would having an MLOK and then having to add a section of picatinney rail make that section of picatinney rail more secure? It doesn't. Picatinney wins again. With picatinney I don't need MLOK. With MLOK I need to buy and then add picatinney rail. Picatinney minus MLOK wins yet again. Even if you did want to do something like that, though, is much rather have an inch of pic rail where I need it than a pound and a half everywhere I don't.  As for the weight sensitivity, I'd suggest you go to the gym and rectify that deficiency.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:40:35 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmmmm, maybe because my EoTech and Vortex Razor sights come with picatinney mounts on them? Maybe because my Elcan DR Specter scopes come with picatinney mounts on them. Maybe because my Surefire M600 DF weapon lights come with picatinney rails on them. As for the weight, I'd suggest you go to the gym and rectify that deficiency. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:40:51 PM EST
[#40]
It's not like end users are changing up there accessories on there rail in the middle of a patrol or a fire fight...
Using MLOK should be a prerequisite for letting you use the AR itself...
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:44:22 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mount a lot of optics on your handguards, do ya? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Hmmmmm, maybe because my EoTech and Vortex Razor sights come with picatinney mounts on them? Maybe because my Elcan DR Specter scopes come with picatinney mounts on them. Maybe because my Surefire M600 DF weapon lights come with picatinney rails on them. As for the weight, I'd suggest you go to the gym and rectify that deficiency. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 2:45:52 PM EST
[#42]
This entire discussion is centered around handguards...no one is promoting the idea of MLOK upper receivers.
And yes, picatinny is still a waste of space and material on handguards. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:00:44 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Scopes mount on the top "picatinney rail," maybe you guys would prefer that rifle manufacturers replace the top picatinney rail with an MLOK? In any event, the point is that I don't need or want any MLOK and everything that I use comes with attachments that mount to picatinney rails. As someone already astutely pointed out, MLOK is just a solution in search of an problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Hmmmmm, maybe because my EoTech and Vortex Razor sights come with picatinney mounts on them? Maybe because my Elcan DR Specter scopes come with picatinney mounts on them. Maybe because my Surefire M600 DF weapon lights come with picatinney rails on them. As for the weight, I'd suggest you go to the gym and rectify that deficiency. There are a lot of products out there that can be classified as a “solution in search of a problem,” but MLOK or KM aren’t one of them. As for “hitting the gym,” any ounce I save is an additional ounce I can carry somewhere else. Seeing as a bunch of extra Picatinny that isn’t being used doesn’t add any value, I’d say it wouldn’t be too hard to figure out a better use for that weight savings. Sure, being stronger helps, but weight savings is weight savings, no matter how strong you may be. Anytime I hear someone say “you don’t need to cut weight, just hit the gym,” I automatically know that person does little else but carry their rifle from the car to the bench and back. |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:11:13 PM EST
[#44]
Weight and configuration options for me.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:13:26 PM EST
[#45]
I actually removed my quad rail on my carbine and reverted to the standard issue handgard. I'll be going with a slim/light m-lok when I get around to it.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:22:22 PM EST
[#46]
It's to make the rails easier for women who have small hands. Most men still use the pic rails with rail covers as needed.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:24:39 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you referring to the RAS when you say they "pop off semi-frequently"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Are you one of those people that thinks you need to be able to hit a rail with a sledgehammer for it to be "durable?" If so, have fun with needlessly heavy shit. A good quality mlok or keymod rail is durable enough that you will not damage it or lose zero with an IR laser. That is what matters, not dumb shit like "Can I run over it with a car twice?" KAC rails suck and pop off semi-frequently, by the way, hence why the "SAS mod" is putting another lock in the lower handguard portion. Clip ons are trash that are designed so an "armorer" who isn't authorized to use a barrel nut wrench can install them; they're not more durable or better for any purpose. The KAC RASes are a perfect example of what I was talking about above, however, they accomplish a realistic task (drop in and durable enough for fleet fielding), rather than some arbitrary need some guy dreamed up to try to seem cool on the internet, like "I need a rail more durable than a tube made of good quality aluminum for some reason." |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:26:32 PM EST
[#48]
Weight and easier to machine/manufacture?
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:27:37 PM EST
[#49]
I got a DD 12 Lite on my go to gun. BCM put it on and pinned a battle comp on the barrel. It stays because I've read all the horror stories about trying to take off something from BCM :) I probably wouldn't really save anything after getting the work done.
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Posted: 12/24/2018 3:41:45 PM EST
[#50]
Anything that can loosen or unscrew will eventually loosen or unscrew. Quad rails Pic sections can not unscrew. The best of both worlds solution is keep what you need and mill off the superfluous.
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