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Posted: 3/5/2019 4:51:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
But the point is that Khufu wouldn't have known any of that. No Pharaoh knew what kind of political changes there would be after their death, much less thousands of years into the future. All Egyptians were concerned about the long term preservation of their corpses and burial objects. Put yourself in that position, where you actually believed that tomb raiders thousands of years in the future could fuck up your afterlife. Would you have yourself buried in the world's most recognizable structure, or would you pick a top secret location where no one would ever have any obvious reason to go looking? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: We have no indication that the next two Pharaohs after Khufu, in most writings they are either his son and grandson, or at the least very close family; were trying to erase his existence. Khufu was the first Pharaoh of the 4th Dynasty, IIRC. Anyway, by the time the 3rd pyramid was built by Menkaure, there was a shift in the focus of worship for the Egyptians. Ra had become the main focus, and while the pharaoh was still seen as a god-king, it wasn't to the extent of what had been, prior to Menkaure. It was essentially a political coup by the priests. So, the nobility in general may have been looking for secret places, but, for a brief period; a few pharaoh's were trying to cement the godhood of themselves. There would't exist a better way then building a vast structure to house your Akh(body), and for all to know about it. Within Egyptian beliefs, it can't be stated enough, how immensely powerful that message was. Khufu was projecting an image of total power, with putting his body in a known location for all to see. He was confident that nothing would had to his body, if anything, did his Ka and Ba would be unable to reunite every night. He would in other words, be spiritually dead. Put yourself in that position, where you actually believed that tomb raiders thousands of years in the future could fuck up your afterlife. Would you have yourself buried in the world's most recognizable structure, or would you pick a top secret location where no one would ever have any obvious reason to go looking? |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 5:04:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kypatriot:
Did they really choose the angle? When you pile up desert soil/sand what is the natural angle of slump? I’d guess that due to friction different substances will pile up at their own angle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kypatriot:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Well, the Egyptians didn't start with that angle, we know that courtesy of the Bent Pyramid. I don't favor the internal dirt fill due to settling and the Egyptians had experience with that issue, from the Step Pyramid. IIRC, those pyramids and the first one at Giza, were close enough in time for an architect and an apprentice to cover the construction, aka a working body of knowledge continuity. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 5:19:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
However they died, Their have been many found with the stomach contents intact. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w
play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story. 
I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 5:27:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It's like you forgot to factor in the hubris of mankind, and then only look at history through the lens of 20/20 hindsight. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 6:11:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi:
That's interesting. Do you have some literature about it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds 
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/proxy_duckduckgo_com_jpg-866049.JPG 3. Working theory is that the internal spiral ramps, have a ceiling that is similar to that of the Grand Gallery, a stepped ceiling. If the Grand Gallery closer to the center of the pyramid, has stood for this long with little issue from limestone stepped ceilings, I see little issue using stepped ceilings towards the outside of the pyramid where there is considerably less weight. Some evidence for this, but further work is needed. 3) The Grand Gallery's ceiling is designed to hold weight and is narrower than the hypothesized tunnel ramps. That means they would have build wider galleries in order to pass with all the stuff through them, plus hold the weight of the stuff passing over them. We are talking about cycling loads, not just static loads. There should be some evidence of those ramps, if they were that big. Anything found that points into that direction? 
They didn't bring the granite through the Grand Gallery. And yes there is some evidence, between the gravimetric survey showing a clear spiral structure and the archaeologist that surveyed a exposed notch high up on the north side(IIRC), that had tunnels leading in both directions. The notch was at the correct height, as predicted by the architect that proposed the internal spiral ramp hypothesis. There are two books as well: Houdin, Jean-Pierre (2006). Khufu: The Secrets Behind the Building of the Great Pyramid. Brier, Bob; Houdin, Jean-Pierre (2008). The Secret of the Great Pyramid: How One Man's Obsession Led to the Solution of Ancient Egypt's Greatest Mystery. The man himself:  Unlocking the Great Pyramid: Khufu Revealed As for another website on construction: Franz Löhner Did the Great Pyramid have an Elevetor? |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 6:12:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
God Kings are known for their humility. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It's like you forgot to factor in the hubris of mankind, and then only look at history through the lens of 20/20 hindsight. *holds back snicker* |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 7:34:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Why does that have to be an Either/Or argument? To keep people so busy and argumentative about religion, or lack of, that they don't bother looking further? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w
play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story.
I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 9:38:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi: That's quite interesting. They do not talk about "instant freeze" but the amount of material they are retrieving allows for discovering a lot more about those animals and what happened at that time. This is a very interesting topic because it can prove that Earth's climate underwent massive changes and, maybe, could have decimated entire civilizations and either extinguished them or forced them to move somewhere else. Antarctica is a place that intrigues me. It was a warm place with vegetation, rivers and, maybe, even some people living there. https://www.livescience.com/27715-antarctica-before-ice.html I recall the Russians found a deep lake that was completely isolated by the ice cap and the water was untouched for a very long time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095193/Lake-Vostok-Russian-scientists-confirm-triumph-drilling-successful-Antarctica.html They took some samples and apparently found some interesting stuff. https://simplecapacity.com/2017/01/russian-scientists-find-new-life-form-in-antarctica-14-unknown-dna/ I wonder what else we will find in that continent. Another one to learn more about is Greenland, which was indeed green not so long ago, compared to Antarctica. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 9:45:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It's like you forgot to factor in the hubris of mankind, and then only look at history through the lens of 20/20 hindsight. To think that would be either failing to understand their beliefs, or thinking they were simple. If you allowed yourself to be entombed in the great pyramid, and you weren't retarded, you would realize immediately that it would be a certainty that some future civilization would dig you up, assuming your own people didn't do it within several hundred years of your death. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 9:48:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Literature on the specific theory, is actually very limited. Hilariously, wiki has the best summary: Jean-Pierre Houdin There are two books as well: Houdin, Jean-Pierre (2006). Khufu: The Secrets Behind the Building of the Great Pyramid. Brier, Bob; Houdin, Jean-Pierre (2008). The Secret of the Great Pyramid: How One Man's Obsession Led to the Solution of Ancient Egypt's Greatest Mystery. The man himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGV1EQ-xx-M
As for another website on construction: Franz Löhner Did the Great Pyramid have an Elevetor? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By RIO-lover: Of course it is. I have heard some people claim that this "spiral ramp" method might have been used. @wakeboarder Why do you ask? ETA some artists idea: If the stone weighed 3 tons that is = to 6000 pounds , that would mean that each man is pulling 600 pounds
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/2b/d4/5b2bd42c5e523af33d75d617a3d00cf9.jpg No ramp to remove when done, simply fill it in and block in the entry "slot", fill the ramp that they built as it is going to rest at same angle as pyramid walls, a couple degrees wider, but the stones are already there. Do a lower course, ladders and buckets, or pulling ropes of crushed limestone "up" to dump on the inside. Once complete, there is no "ramp to remove". They could have even been placing the capstones on during that time, as climbing them later to polish would be a bitch. Those could also been of a much lighter and softer rock, easy to polish, something from chalk or talc family that is pretty rigid for weight. Why I was saying that could be the reason for the specific same size of rocks for most of the work, is that was the length they needed to drag across 2 "point bearings" up the side, no matter where in the lift, some part of the outside would be touching 2 edges of the stones already laid, making it as simple as rolling them along dirt with rollers, 2 points/edges would be a lot easier than pushing it up a shallow spiral with rollers. Either one would work. Placing stones perfectly aligned would be a lot easier if the builders had 3 axis they could bump rock around in. (without pushing it over edge, obliviously, so 2.5 dimensions). Maybe 2 or 3 layers of interlocking courses of rock toward the inside, to lock each of 3 axis when working together (like a brick wall locking 2 dimensions, another course and a lot of weight to lock 3rd). Summary of what I'm saying is this: They're made out of dirt, excespt for chambers and some passages which were extended as they moved higher in construction to ensure passages were stable andwouldn't move once dirt was placed atop. All around the stones seen from the inside, is dirt, 2-3 layers of stone on the walls in all directions, then dirt, until the next passage. It would explain the rock placement in King's Chamber Much easier to understand and see, if it were built in the open, from bottom up, with guys in the chamber shouting up orders for measurement changes or what they want for lunch, etc. i.e. communication from inside to outside so the builders can continue the desired passages to point at the right stars, etc. They'd be excellent speaking tubes while under construction to show "no, no, you idiot, you bent it, move rock back to sunward (or whatever words they used back then, of course). I can maybe CAD my idea if I can't find a photo or painting of what I'm thinking. Ramp NOT outside the walls at all, started with dumping dirt out after digging out passages beneath, then preserving passages by interlocking blocks (lots of that from woodworking to large steel/concrete constructions, etc. How to they route the water lines/chimney's correctly upward building the Empire State Building? Otherwise, similar to other spiral ramp theories, just no ramp to remove when finished, that's not efficient without the power tools/buckets/ bulldozers we have today. Like this, but slope would have been "Top" of pyramid under constructions, inside the wall by 2-3-stone lengths, very slower spiral from 1-4courses per lap depending, made from dirt, nothing existed above them until they got that high, and they kept visuals on all the other passage exits. Inner courses could have been uglier blocks, but if they had that copper grinding saw for limestone where setup was for one size block with smooth edges in each spot at a time (MANY Spots in quarry running separate). https://i.imgur.com/gRDsuGQ.jpg 1) what's the actual grade these ramps would have? Would it be feasible to pull 10 to 80 ton boulders through them? 2) how much space (width) they would have to have in order to allow for them to pull those large boulders, maneuvering them and the stuff needed to pull them up (people, wooden poles, etc.)? At least 10 feet wide? That leads to my next question. 3) these ramps eventually become tunnels, since the pyramids' walls are inclined. Can limestone hold that weight without collapsing? The core holding weight consists mainly of those huge granite boulders anywhere they have voids (hallways, chambers, etc). The limestone seems to be only filler. How would the ramps' ceilings look like? If you have a CAD software that allows you to draw these ramps/tunnels in perfect scale, it might give a better idea. The Empire State building uses a steel beam frame to hold everything in place.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/proxy_duckduckgo_com_jpg-866049.JPG 3. Working theory is that the internal spiral ramps, have a ceiling that is similar to that of the Grand Gallery, a stepped ceiling. If the Grand Gallery closer to the center of the pyramid, has stood for this long with little issue from limestone stepped ceilings, I see little issue using stepped ceilings towards the outside of the pyramid where there is considerably less weight. Some evidence for this, but further work is needed. 3) The Grand Gallery's ceiling is designed to hold weight and is narrower than the hypothesized tunnel ramps. That means they would have build wider galleries in order to pass with all the stuff through them, plus hold the weight of the stuff passing over them. We are talking about cycling loads, not just static loads. There should be some evidence of those ramps, if they were that big. Anything found that points into that direction?
They didn't bring the granite through the Grand Gallery. And yes there is some evidence, between the gravimetric survey showing a clear spiral structure and the archaeologist that surveyed a exposed notch high up on the north side(IIRC), that had tunnels leading in both directions. The notch was at the correct height, as predicted by the architect that proposed the internal spiral ramp hypothesis. There are two books as well: Houdin, Jean-Pierre (2006). Khufu: The Secrets Behind the Building of the Great Pyramid. Brier, Bob; Houdin, Jean-Pierre (2008). The Secret of the Great Pyramid: How One Man's Obsession Led to the Solution of Ancient Egypt's Greatest Mystery. The man himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGV1EQ-xx-M
As for another website on construction: Franz Löhner Did the Great Pyramid have an Elevetor? However, Houdin's theory still has some holes in the details. And as we know, the devil is in the details. As he was describing the resources, I was taking notes and found a few numbers that did not match. He said in the following in his presentation. 1) Max 5,000 people directly involved in quarrying and moving the blocks. He even joked abut them split into two competing teams to see if the quarry would make more blocks than the other would install or vice-versa. 2) Around 25,000 total people involved if included the logistics (cooks, farmers, doctors, etc.) 3) The granite boulders weighted 65 metric tons (=143,304lb) and would need 600 people to move them. That's 238lb per person (quite strong Egyptians...) 4) He also said that the small casement blocks would weight around 3 metric tons (=6,613lb). So, here's where I scratch my head. If we use the same ratio of 238lb load per person, that would require 27 persons to move each limestone block. If we go back to the install rate, which is corroborated by one of the links you posted. 2,300,000 blocks in 20 years = 115,000/year = 315/day = 32/hour (@ 10 work hour days) = 1 every two minutes If each team of 27 people can bring one block from the docks all the way up per day, that would require at least 8,500 people just for installing blocks. That would make those internal ramps way over populated, or they would have to be a lot larger than he portrays, correct?  Attached FileAnother thing that makes me scratch my head is how did they bring the last blocks to the very top (pyramid's top edge)? The internal ramp did not go up there and that's not well explained. His diagrams just show the top "popping up" there, but it surely wasn't that easy because they would have to somehow bring 3 ton boulders outside.  Attached FileNevertheless, there are some good points in his theory. For example using the topography to their advantage, even though I'm not sure I would drag boulders up and then down (that larger lateral ramp). Also, considering where the granite blocks are used and when they were needed (14 years into the construction) that would give a lot more time to bring them from their quarries. So, they are indeed structural and used to prevent the core to collapse into the chambers and grand gallery. The microgravimetry survey is very intriguing. I wonder if that could be pointing to something else. The pulley idea is also interesting and deserves more investigation. Maybe those "shafts" that he things are ramps could be actually shafts used to run the ropes and pulleys used to pull the blocks up? Just brainstorming. I feel we are getting closer to solve the mystery. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 10:27:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RIO-lover:
https://i.redd.it/5g4du6bo56t11.jpg https://www.ancient.eu/img/r/p/500x600/2372.jpg?v=1485680624 https://ashtronort.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/anim-17-sided-stone-inca-stonework1.gif?w=547 The last picture here, an expert mason would struggle to cut that with diamond edge tools  It’s not aliens imo. I think the Younger Dryas event (Meteor or mass coronal ejection. Take your pick.) wiped out advanced civilizations all over the world. Not advanced like we are, but well past Iron Age. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 10:32:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RIO-lover:
The fact that these stones are made of granite. They were cut without any metal tools having been invented yet. Many of these stones had right angle inside corners cut into them. Try cutting a right angle inside corner using modern tools. It makes you wonder why they cut such elaborately shaped stones when square or rectangular stones would have been much easier to cut and stack. It can be rough cut, chipped, and polished with the shit you can find in a muddy creek. The tools aren’t the enemy of the worker here. The enemy is time. It wasn’t that long ago that one person would start building a cathedral and their great grandson would finish it. The work done in your posts may have taken a thousand years to complete. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 11:06:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6GUNZ]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sweptvolume: You talk about granite like it’s diamond hard. It can be rough cut, chipped, and polished with the shit you can find in a muddy creek. The tools aren’t the enemy of the worker here. The enemy is time. It wasn’t that long ago that one person would start building a cathedral and their great grandson would finish it. The work done in your posts may have taken a thousand years to complete. Another thing most people don't realize about medieval masonry is that it's extremely high maintenance. All the major cathedrals are in a perpetual state of preservation efforts. They also settle, and without extensive foundation work lots of them would have toppled long ago. You will see various spine walls that were built to keep towers from collapsing and places where the stonework doesn't match where a large section gave way and had to be repaired. |
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Posted: 3/5/2019 11:48:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sweptvolume:
An expert mason, a competent machinist using awls and chisels, or an experienced carpenter with enough time could cut those joints. It’s not aliens imo. I think the Younger Dryas event (Meteor or mass coronal ejection. Take your pick.) wiped out advanced civilizations all over the world. Not advanced like we are, but well past Iron Age. . I think pre history is very complex. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 1:54:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Why does that have to be an Either/Or argument? To keep people so busy and argumentative about religion, or lack of, that they don't bother looking further? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w
play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story.
I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 12:42:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
I don't think you're getting in the same headspace as they would have been. They were thinking thousands of years into the future. It wasn't just about lasting for a few generations, it was about outlasting the entire Egyptian empire. I say no Egyptian would have broadcast the location of his tomb, and especially not to such an extent that it would be a temptation to people thousands of years in the future. To think that would be either failing to understand their beliefs, or thinking they were simple. If you allowed yourself to be entombed in the great pyramid, and you weren't retarded, you would realize immediately that it would be a certainty that some future civilization would dig you up, assuming your own people didn't do it within several hundred years of your death. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It's like you forgot to factor in the hubris of mankind, and then only look at history through the lens of 20/20 hindsight. To think that would be either failing to understand their beliefs, or thinking they were simple. If you allowed yourself to be entombed in the great pyramid, and you weren't retarded, you would realize immediately that it would be a certainty that some future civilization would dig you up, assuming your own people didn't do it within several hundred years of your death. Khufu basically said, "I am so great and powerful, I will house my body in a structure for all to see." It's asinine to require perfect clairvoyance, like you keep insisting on. Besides, 4500 years later, Khufu's name is still known. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 1:11:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
That sounds way too much like that x files episode. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By Rossi: That's quite interesting. They do not talk about "instant freeze" but the amount of material they are retrieving allows for discovering a lot more about those animals and what happened at that time. This is a very interesting topic because it can prove that Earth's climate underwent massive changes and, maybe, could have decimated entire civilizations and either extinguished them or forced them to move somewhere else. Antarctica is a place that intrigues me. It was a warm place with vegetation, rivers and, maybe, even some people living there. https://www.livescience.com/27715-antarctica-before-ice.html I recall the Russians found a deep lake that was completely isolated by the ice cap and the water was untouched for a very long time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095193/Lake-Vostok-Russian-scientists-confirm-triumph-drilling-successful-Antarctica.html They took some samples and apparently found some interesting stuff. https://simplecapacity.com/2017/01/russian-scientists-find-new-life-form-in-antarctica-14-unknown-dna/ I wonder what else we will find in that continent. Another one to learn more about is Greenland, which was indeed green not so long ago, compared to Antarctica. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 1:14:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
I think people just like to feel certainty. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
@brass you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w
play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br If my memory does not fail, the Maia have the Five Suns legend about how Earth has been going through several cataclysms and there should be an incoming one around 2012. Well, it's came and gone. But, who knows they might have made a mistake in their predictions? Other religions also predict global catastrophes and even the Catholic has its own. Religions and beliefs apart, we know for sure that there was at least one global cataclysm around 70,000 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/genetic-bottleneck-almost-killed-humans-2016-3 This was a great study where geology and anthropology worked together to show that the DNA "bottleneck" coincided with a supervolcano explosion. So, yes, we went through this before and nothing says we will not go through it again. I broke my thoughts down into two to help with the discussion. 1) My doubt about that "book" is how was it classified? The author's draft simply confiscated, pulled from the editor, or confiscated during printing, etc? No copies anywhere? The video does not say how he knows the "classified book" is almost 300 pages long. 2) Then there's the event itself. If I understood that video. He's saying that the Earth's rotation remains the same and the tectonic plates shift around so the Antarctic goes to where the South American is and the Australian moves to where the Eurasian is, with all of them in a musical chairs type dance. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/continentalplates_png-866001.JPG From the video: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PolesShift_PNG-866022.JPG I can understand supervolcanos and large earthquakes. However, what that video's author describes such as a tsunami 2 miles high, crust moves that make Asia sink and put the poles in the equator would require forces that would likely launch stuff in space, Earth might even lose some atmosphere in the process. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt there would be any lifeforms except microorganisms that would survive that. Anything requiring air to breathe would have a hard time, then add the sudden clime changes, food gone, fresh water mixed with salt water... not sure. Even deeply buried shelters would be shaken like crazy and possibly destroyed. Imagine the forces that would make whole continents sink. That would make the largest event we know at 70,000 years ago look like a sneeze. We have the continental drift theory but I do not recall it happening overnight. The tectonic plates float on liquid rock and can move around like ice blocks on a lake. When they move and collide with each other we have earthquakes that are big for us but nothing for Earth itself. For those blocks to sink and shift overnight as described in that movie we would need a force magnitude of another celestial body hitting Earth. Then we go back to my thought about things being thrown into space (actually one of the theories about how the Moon was formed). I am having a hard time imagining an internal forces build-up phenomenon that would not lead to earthquakes (even if larger than the ones we have registered) way before the plate shift he's talking about happens. So, what he's describing is a mankind extinction event that is not necessarily cyclical. It could happen anytime assuming a large enough celestial body hits Earth. Just my 2c. Here's a more credible account about that one. I also (shamelessly) posted a couple comments that corroborate my thoughts about an external force being necessary for the shift the video's author describes. Flash-Frozen Mammoths and Their Buttercups: Yet Another Case of Repetition and Recycling of Bad Data
2/6/2016 I wasn’t planning on doing more on frozen mammoths after yesterday’s discussion of dining on them, but I found myself increasingly intrigued by the fact that so many fringe history claims for flash-frozen mammoths and eating mammoth steaks trace back to a single 1960 article by Ivan T. Sanderson in the Saturday Evening Post. He was not the first to report the claims (having apparently learned of them from Immanuel Velikovsky, according to secondary sources), but his piece directly or indirectly bequeathed the story to biblical creationists like Donald Patten (who claimed Alaskan restaurants served mammoth in the twentieth century), Charles Hapgood (a close friend of Sanderson’s), David Childress, Graham Hancock, and a host of others. So I went to the library to get a copy to find out exactly what Sanderson said. Sometimes I wish that most of the innovations in bizarre claims weren’t made so long ago that everyone involved is now dead. Sanderson starts his article by saying that frozen food companies were intrigued by his inquiries into how to flash-freeze an elephant and wanted to experiment with it! I’d have loved to talk to one of those frozen food executives to inquire as to exactly how they thought it possible or why they would even try such a thing. Anyway, Sanderson says he began his inquiry because he (wrongly) believed that wooly mammoths had been flavor-sealed in Arctic ice: “The reason for my question is simply that we already have lots of frozen elephants; the flesh of some of them has retained its full flavor, and I want to know how the job was done.” He cites the notorious Beresovka mammoth as one such toothsome delight, mistaking the explorers’ dogs’ lack of gustatory discrimination for proof that the flesh was fresh. Sanderson also asserted that the mammoth had been frozen so quickly that its last meal of buttercups were still freshly in bloom in its mouth. “Upon the [tongue] and between the teeth, were portions of the animal’s last meal, which for some incomprehensible reason it had not had time to swallow.” This one fact gave rise to a 56 years of speculation about “instant” freezing of the mammoths in some catastrophist disaster. [color=#0000ff]The scientist who studied the mammoth in situ, Dr. Otto Herz, had written that “more [food] is found on the tongue and between the teeth,” and he assumed that the mammoth died while he was eating, tumbling off a cliff or down a slope to his death. He wrote that the mammoth was not flash-frozen, but rather likely died in a mud pit that froze over shortly after the animal’s death and became buried under layers of dirt. The decrepit state of the flesh reported by the explorers is more than enough to refute Sanderson’s misimpression that the mammoth was fresh enough to eat.[/color] (more at link down below) This topic relates to something I’ve encountered over the years having to do with people claiming that the Earth’s poles have swapped position at times in the past. Flash frozen mammoths have been used as evidence to support this idea. I believe Velikovsky wrote about it but he was apparently not the first to do so. In college I had a running debate with a roommate about this very topic. What happens is that people reference scientific evidence that the magnetic poles have shifted position many times over Earth’s history (and seem to be getting ready to do so again) and read this as evidence of the Earth actually flipping over. Its an excellent example of the misreading of true science as evidence in support of fringe theories. ... Velikovsky claimed the earth flipped due to a near miss with what is now thw planet Venus. His 'theory' was from the early '50s. Magnetic pole flipping was not discovered until the comprehensive sea floor studies of the IGY around 1957 and became accepted theory in the early '60s. Velikovsky's 'evidence' was passages from Egyptian, bible, and Mayan references to the sun rising in the east, then overnight stopping, and starting to rise in the west. Also claimed were pictures of constellations inside pyramids which were "backwards". All this allegedly occurred around 1500 BCE and was also linked to the plagues and Moses' exodus from Egypt. V. lists many references, of which I was not interested enough to check, but it makes for a most entertaining story.
I stopped watching those videos when I saw that one about the mammoth. That guy came as someone posting about "massive cataclysms" and "conspiracies". There are many reports online talking about that mammoth. It appears this misrepresentation is a favorite by authors trying to sell the "instant freeze" thing. here is one they found a few years ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2358695/Woolly-mammoth-frozen-Siberia-39-000-YEARS-goes-display-Tokyo-woolly.html there seems to be a creationist V Atheist debate about it that makes finding useful information difficult. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 3:52:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Like I said, you fail to factor in the hubris of mankind. Khufu basically said, "I am so great and powerful, I will house my body in a structure for all to see." It's asinine to require perfect clairvoyance, like you keep insisting on. Besides, 4500 years later, Khufu's name is still known. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 4:41:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you're gonna get dug up eventually if you bury yourself in the world's greatest wonder. Does not require clairvoyance. Doesn't even require being particularly smart. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Like I said, you fail to factor in the hubris of mankind. Khufu basically said, "I am so great and powerful, I will house my body in a structure for all to see." It's asinine to require perfect clairvoyance, like you keep insisting on. Besides, 4500 years later, Khufu's name is still known. "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 4:50:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you're gonna get dug up eventually if you bury yourself in the world's greatest wonder. Does not require clairvoyance. Doesn't even require being particularly smart. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Like I said, you fail to factor in the hubris of mankind. Khufu basically said, "I am so great and powerful, I will house my body in a structure for all to see." It's asinine to require perfect clairvoyance, like you keep insisting on. Besides, 4500 years later, Khufu's name is still known. Which reminds me, The "Curse of the tombs" where they'd go in and die shortly after. Some disease that we've not seen in who knows how many years? Maybe from a heck of a long time ago? Zero immunity, so no time to spread sort of thing. That would certainly create many "cursed tombs" stories. Disease or even chemical traps in such an airtight apace, the many who searched for the piles of gold iddn't have HAZMAT suits or even air tanks. There were also other 'conspiracies' listing how many died of those who were initial visitors to various tombs. Though the exact causes of death weren't mentioned. That would be a quick way to keep whatever was found to a small group, poison those who wanted to do something different. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 9:24:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6GUNZ]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Oh, and they were still building mastabas through the time when the pyramids were supposedly being built. If the pyramids were just modified mastabas, then they would be designed the same way, one would think. There would have been a subterranean house for the deceased, and a chapel with a statue connected to the burial chambers for the family to make offerings. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 9:43:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
LOTS of pharaohs still haven't been found, despite mad searching and high technology. I think it's safe to say the majority are still undisturbed. The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2019 9:50:11 PM EDT
[#24]
ive thought of this, like...
how would I stand up a 300 ton rock if all I had was a crew of drunk Irish fuckers. I would build up the surrounding ground except where I wanted the rock... like, create a giant mound gently sloping up with the footprint of a football field. dig out where I want the rock to go like a little volcano crater and just push the stone into the hole. same with the pyramids. just have your slaves build up sand around each level with such a gentle slope that youre basically rolling blocks up slightly less than level ground. then you wouldnt even be bottlenecked with a crane or ramp or relying on one alien space ship to lift one block at a time. 100 crews could all be simultaneously landing 100 blocks at a time. delivery to the site is just one long road of continuous rolling blocks when youre done, clear away all the material. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 10:23:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKsala:
ive thought of this, like... how would I stand up a 300 ton rock if all I had was a crew of drunk Irish fuckers. I would build up the surrounding ground except where I wanted the rock... like, create a giant mound gently sloping up with the footprint of a football field. dig out where I want the rock to go like a little volcano crater and just push the stone into the hole. same with the pyramids. just have your slaves build up sand around each level with such a gentle slope that youre basically rolling blocks up slightly less than level ground. then you wouldnt even be bottlenecked with a crane or ramp or relying on one alien space ship to lift one block at a time. 100 crews could all be simultaneously landing 100 blocks at a time. delivery to the site is just one long road of continuous rolling blocks when youre done, clear away all the material. Same logic though. The angle coincidences are what jumped out at me for that concept. Thought of angles since you can drive an ATV around a pile of coal and know the volume, since coal of a certain range of chunk size always makes piles with the same angle, so if you keep it roughly circular, the volume is that of a cone, only need height and diameter. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 10:50:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKsala:
ive thought of this, like... how would I stand up a 300 ton rock if all I had was a crew of drunk Irish fuckers. I would build up the surrounding ground except where I wanted the rock... like, create a giant mound gently sloping up with the footprint of a football field. dig out where I want the rock to go like a little volcano crater and just push the stone into the hole. same with the pyramids. just have your slaves build up sand around each level with such a gentle slope that youre basically rolling blocks up slightly less than level ground. then you wouldnt even be bottlenecked with a crane or ramp or relying on one alien space ship to lift one block at a time. 100 crews could all be simultaneously landing 100 blocks at a time. delivery to the site is just one long road of continuous rolling blocks when youre done, clear away all the material. |
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Posted: 3/6/2019 11:27:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner: If you had a crew of drunk Irish fuckers you wouldn't need anything else to get the job done. https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/5000-year-old-pay-stub-shows-that-ancient-workers-were-paid-in-beer/ |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 2:25:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Sorry, I'm referring to the Valley of Kings and "Curse of King Tut" type stuff. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 2:48:46 AM EDT
[#29]
 Coral Castle Mystery 100% Solved with 1930's Film Footage! |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 2:49:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
@brass Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? It not in one of those click bait videos, not a TopXX list, it was just showing places and artifaces, then showing contental shelf, one place mentioend was sthis one. It was a medium short video, under 20 minutes. Had a rock circle, the laid out square city somewhere, I'll post if I remember There's this one, then a diferent one showing location of things found, and what was linked if the previous water level was near continental shelf edges now. I forgot the title. I'll post again if I find the exact one. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI-DQV-CUw4[/youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI-DQV-CUw4 |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 2:52:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
I got them from this thread, I'll try and look again, one of the past 5 pages, which led to some others, from the titicaca / skull dude in Peru, links from it where he flew drone over since he couldn't dive, links from it too. They're near the shore, on continental shelf, just in rather deep water. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 3:04:44 AM EDT
[#32]
I think this one was interesting, uses Google Earth, but a link chain fromthere. My spammer keeps my history rather bizzare.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4W9nbH2Kg[/youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4W9nbH2Kg |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 3:10:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi:
I posted a couple links. Do a search for Bimini road. There are a couple others also. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 3:36:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
I think the official story on the Bimini road is that it is a natural feature. The "cart ruts" all over Anatolia are acknowledged to be man made, do any of those go deep under water? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? How deep are you thinking about? That one in Bimini is deep enough for either have been dry land before, or its builders had some super submarine skills. Earth's landscape has been going through massive changes. There are marine animals remains on Andean mountains showing that those high plateaus have been under water a long time ago. There was a thread here in GD where this topic was discussed in details. Cannot find it. It's not very old but could not find it in the archives also. There was a ton of stuff there. |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 4:08:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi:
There's still debate about it being man-made or not, like those structures near Japan. How deep are you thinking about? That one in Bimini is deep enough for either have been dry land before, or its builders had some super submarine skills. Earth's landscape has been going through massive changes. There are marine animals remains on Andean mountains showing that those high plateaus have been under water a long time ago. There was a thread here in GD where this topic was discussed in details. Cannot find it. It's not very old but could not find it in the archives also. There was a ton of stuff there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? How deep are you thinking about? That one in Bimini is deep enough for either have been dry land before, or its builders had some super submarine skills. Earth's landscape has been going through massive changes. There are marine animals remains on Andean mountains showing that those high plateaus have been under water a long time ago. There was a thread here in GD where this topic was discussed in details. Cannot find it. It's not very old but could not find it in the archives also. There was a ton of stuff there. Maybe there are freshwater pipefish or something in the lake. I hate the fucking internet. Here you find a museum exhibit showing seahorses supposedly caught from the fucking lake, there you find someone denying their existence. but anywho, I remember seeing somewhere that the cart ruts go under water, but I have no idea how deep they go. |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 9:25:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HEATSEAKER: Beer gets shit built: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/5000-year-old-pay-stub-shows-that-ancient-workers-were-paid-in-beer/ |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 11:20:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Yeah there are supposedly sea horses in Lake Titicaca. Though again there seems to be a creationist v atheist debate surrounding their existence. Maybe there are freshwater pipefish or something in the lake. I hate the fucking internet. Here you find a museum exhibit showing seahorses supposedly caught from the fucking lake, there you find someone denying their existence. but anywho, I remember seeing somewhere that the cart ruts go under water, but I have no idea how deep they go. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Maybe we can jump to another location to see how it was built or understand it. Some of these city paths out 30-200+ ft down in the ocean are interesting, and the ice cap on Antarctica isn't big enough to hold 100 ft of water worldwide. North ice cap is floating, so displacement is the same if it melts. I am pretty sure the answer is not "Ancient Divers". Earth had to change dramatically, a long time ago, but not as long ago as asteroids, maybe past ice age for the water to be that low. I doubt that much has seeped In from space. Can you share some vids and links for the roads leading into the ocean? How deep are you thinking about? That one in Bimini is deep enough for either have been dry land before, or its builders had some super submarine skills. Earth's landscape has been going through massive changes. There are marine animals remains on Andean mountains showing that those high plateaus have been under water a long time ago. There was a thread here in GD where this topic was discussed in details. Cannot find it. It's not very old but could not find it in the archives also. There was a ton of stuff there. Maybe there are freshwater pipefish or something in the lake. I hate the fucking internet. Here you find a museum exhibit showing seahorses supposedly caught from the fucking lake, there you find someone denying their existence. but anywho, I remember seeing somewhere that the cart ruts go under water, but I have no idea how deep they go. |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 11:23:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4v50:
Click here for a link to a declassified book in the CIA collection. It talks about pole shifts and the destruction of earlier civilisations, Adam & Eve and how the biblical story came to be handed down and the upcoming doom of our own civilisation. No more taxes when we die  ! |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 11:28:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Storz:
Will read, thanks for the link Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Storz:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Click here for a link to a declassified book in the CIA collection. It talks about pole shifts and the destruction of earlier civilisations, Adam & Eve and how the biblical story came to be handed down and the upcoming doom of our own civilisation. No more taxes when we die ! The Next End of the World | C.I.A. Classified play list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 12:40:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Storz:
Will read, thanks for the link Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Storz:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Click here for a link to a declassified book in the CIA collection. It talks about pole shifts and the destruction of earlier civilisations, Adam & Eve and how the biblical story came to be handed down and the upcoming doom of our own civilisation. No more taxes when we die !Absolutely fascinating stuff, and something I will continue to research and study until I am returned to the Earth |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 12:45:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass: you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1wplay list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass: you may find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1wplay list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjJqIXYT1w&list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br The C.I.A. classified a 284-page book on earth's catastrophe cycle and crust displacement in 1966. With the focus and publicity of the topic at the time, why classify THIS one, wait so long to release it, and so-heavily sanitize the document down to 57 pages? |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 12:49:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Related?
World in Peril; The Story Behind the Discovery of Imminent Global Change, by author, Ken White: "To me, there was something almost legendary about the exploits of this remarkable unit, from carrying out dangerous reconnaissance missions over the arctic unknown, to finding three magnetic north poles, to making the discoveries that would lead Pentagon scientists to predict a global cataclysm (only to end up withholding this information from the public). This nonfiction book is a long-overdue record of these events, both for those who are curious about behind-the-scenes history, and those who are interested in why our planet is a world in peril. As a once-classified but now highly significant story to emerge from Cold War aviation, made personal by the unique perspective of the unit commander responsible for the operation, (then) Major Maynard E. White, World in Peril recreates the pioneering work of the first operational unit in the newly-formed Strategic Air Command, assigned SAC's first operational mission, "Project Nanook" - to assess the Soviet threat in the Arctic immediately after World War II. This is the aviation unit that developed the Grid System of Navigation that opened up arctic skies to world aviation and enabled the Strategic Air Command to become the global deterrent force that kept the peace throughout the Cold War - an achievement recently cited as one of the ten greatest accomplishments of the United States during the last half-century! But World in Peril is more than a hitherto unknown chapter of history. It also provides an explanation, based on the unit's findings, of how Pentagon scientists determined our globe has evolved in prehistory, and how another earth-reshaping cataclysm is imminent! Now we can understand why mammoths and mastodons found in the arctic permafrost had been instantaneously frozen with subtropical vegetation in their mouths and stomachs. World in Peril may be the only book in print that accurately explains the elusive triggering mechanism for the phenomena known to scientists for over 200 years as "crustal shift," and what it implies. Simply put, World in Peril is a book about men pitted against insurmountable odds, and overcoming them. We may have to do it again soon! |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 12:57:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rossi]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Ahhh yes, the good old days. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By HEATSEAKER: Beer gets shit built: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/5000-year-old-pay-stub-shows-that-ancient-workers-were-paid-in-beer/ 
That would make future archaeologists scratch their heads. 
ETA: What if the whole pyramid thing was just a big backyard build-up party powered by lots of beer and barbecue?
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Posted: 3/7/2019 1:06:07 PM EDT
[#44]
$2500 bucks and you can have a print version, I am unsure tho if this is the santized 57 page version or the original uncut version.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Adam-and-Eve-Story-1965-3rd-Edition-Postlude-1971-1st-Print-by-Chan-Thomas/223412801662?hash=item340470d07e:g:kjYAAOSwepdcbuxA |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 1:08:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Storz:
$2500 bucks and you can have a print version, I am unsure tho if this is the santized 57 page version or the original uncut version. https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Adam-and-Eve-Story-1965-3rd-Edition-Postlude-1971-1st-Print-by-Chan-Thomas/223412801662?hash=item340470d07e:g:kjYAAOSwepdcbuxA Pretty sure you can get it free on the internet tho. I think it is linked in the description in one of the playlist videos. |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 1:23:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
LOTS of pharaohs still haven't been found, despite mad searching and high technology. I think it's safe to say the majority are still undisturbed. The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Oh, and they were still building mastabas through the time when the pyramids were supposedly being built. If the pyramids were just modified mastabas, then they would be designed the same way, one would think. There would have been a subterranean house for the deceased, and a chapel with a statue connected to the burial chambers for the family to make offerings. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Then the Valley of the Kings, was also a bad decision. Over a thousand years after Khufu, New Kingdom Pharaohs had themselves interred at: "The Great and Majestic Necropolis of the Millions of Years of the Pharaoh, Life, Strength, Health in The West of Thebes" It was literally advertised where they were buried. There was even a tomb guard, despite the relatively isolated location to prevent tomb robbing. Queens, nobles, children and other important folks were buried there as well as the adjacent valley. So, you had the Old Kingdom, were Pharaohs built Mastabas and Pyramids as tombs, that everyone knew about. Then we had the conquest by invasion of outsiders and the resulting Intermediate Period. And right after the reconquest was complete and the New Kingdom was founded; Pharaohs and nobles went right back to building tombs in a widely known location. So, I will wait patiently for your explanation as to why a multitude of Egyptians, building Mastabas, Pyramids or Tombs in rock, in known locations; spanning thousands of years and multiple dynasties, all engaged in the same flawed thinking(at least according to you) The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Oh, and they were still building mastabas through the time when the pyramids were supposedly being built. If the pyramids were just modified mastabas, then they would be designed the same way, one would think. There would have been a subterranean house for the deceased, and a chapel with a statue connected to the burial chambers for the family to make offerings. The old kingdom bears little resemblance to classical Egypt. It's more related to Babylon than it is to classical Egypt. Based on what evidence There's no proof that any of the actual pyramids were used as tombs at any point, much less that they were designed for that purpose. That's a wild assumption. It's literally on the walls in the burial chamber Connecting the mastabas of the old kingdom to the pyramids is a giant stretch. More like a less sophisticated version of a ziggurat. Even officially, the mastabas were directly inspired by Babylonian architecture. Show the evidence Also, following the beliefs of people in the old kingdom, the pyramids would not have been suitable burial chambers. In the old beliefs, the body had to be underground, and there had to be a way for the ba to come and go through a statue. There also had to be a place for the family to bring food and drink to the deceased. Yeah, that's why there are false doors and the mortuary temples, where the mortuary cults brought the food and drink. Oh, and they were still building mastabas through the time when the pyramids were supposedly being built. If the pyramids were just modified mastabas, then they would be designed the same way, one would think. There would have been a subterranean house for the deceased, and a chapel with a statue connected to the burial chambers for the family to make offerings. Already covered in the previous question, you asked the same question twice. Whenever you want to have a discussion based on evidence, feel free to join. Until then, I'll leave you to twisting everything to fit whatever preconceived conclusion you clearly want to be true. |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 1:24:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Adam and Eve Story and World in Peril are speaking to the same thing
https://www.exopolitics.org/tag/chan-thomas/ |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 1:27:00 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Pretty sure you can get it free on the internet. I think it is linked in the description in one of the playlist videos. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Storz:
$2500 bucks and you can have a print version, I am unsure tho if this is the santized 57 page version or the original uncut version. https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Adam-and-Eve-Story-1965-3rd-Edition-Postlude-1971-1st-Print-by-Chan-Thomas/223412801662?hash=item340470d07e:g:kjYAAOSwepdcbuxA |
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Posted: 3/7/2019 1:27:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Storz]
[#49]
doubletap
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Posted: 3/7/2019 1:43:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Storz:
I think only the sanitized version is available on the net from what I have found, I would love to find the entire un-sanitized version Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Storz:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By Storz:
$2500 bucks and you can have a print version, I am unsure tho if this is the santized 57 page version or the original uncut version. https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Adam-and-Eve-Story-1965-3rd-Edition-Postlude-1971-1st-Print-by-Chan-Thomas/223412801662?hash=item340470d07e:g:kjYAAOSwepdcbuxA No way I buy one. It is probably some shitbird passing off printed versions of the sanitized book. Chan Thomas is not the Authors name. Besides, it bunk anyway. There seems to be several full copies from 1965 under the Chan Thomas name held by college libraries I found according to directories. here is another link to the sanitized version. https://archive.org/details/ChanThomasTheAdamAndEveStory |
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