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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:34:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think lots of non gun people think a permit equals training. We all know it doesn't. WHAT?!?!? Are you claiming that 50 rounds, slow fire, at paper targets ranging from 3 to 15 yards is not intensive training? |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:35:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The people you are talking to are idiots. Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. Honestly that helps explain it. Sometimes less common sense among well educated persons. That and overly cautious. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:38:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The people you are talking to are idiots. This. However, I will ALWAYS keep my KY CCW permit for 2 VERY important reasons. 1. I get to side step the 4473, and can cash and carry, never worrying about the system being down, delayed, etc… because without my ccw I get delayed at least 75% of the time. Buy one walk out, second delayed a week, third delayed a hour, fourth delayed a week, fifth walk out, etc. 2. For out of state travel, as no other state recognizes constitutional carry from your home state as a legitimate permit to carry in their home state, so basically illegal to ccw while traveling. Barring constitutional carry in certain states, like Kentucky, which allows non residents to ccw permit less in ky. Having a ccw permit just helps reduce problems. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:38:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most people are incredibly stupid outside their narrow field of work and hobbies. Shockingly stupid. This. The CCW instructors and shooting range managers I've spoken with are of the opinion that people who carry should at least be aware of the lethal force laws in the state. They hear some shockingly stupid beliefs people have on what they can do. Just from my one experience in CCW training, about 2/3 of my classmates probably shouldn't be carrying a firearm. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:40:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of doctors and lawyers are idiots. Degrees do not equate to common sense. You don't even have to look far for evidence to back up that statement.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:44:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were two lawyers from one of the ccw insurance companies who claimed on YouTube that you were better off with a CCW if you ended up in front of jury after a shooting I can see the theoretical argument that a non-gun nut juror would interpret a CCW as evidence of a higher level of training in use of force and competency at arms. I have a CCW license for travel. Most states I travel to recognize a KS license but not many are constitutional carry. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:45:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of idiots out there with advanced degrees. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. Plenty of idiots out there with advanced degrees. Yup, someone gets a degree and assume that makes them intelligent, or smarter than others with no degree, while that is true some of the time, it’s also wrong a huge % of the time, as even if you are a subject matter expert in something, you can still be a total idiot in everything else, have no common sense, or simply have no ability to distinguish between facts and propaganda in daily life, and have belief systems based purely on feel good propaganda they absorbed via education / msm / peers and parrot that same feel good nonsense. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:46:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDK. I SHOULDN'T, but most around here seem to think the LEOs will give you a hard time over it. Maybe it's a local thing. Which is why I started this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why would you get a shake down? It is a lawful act. There is NO legal reason for them to contact you over a concealed firearm, as it was prior to the legal change. IDK. I SHOULDN'T, but most around here seem to think the LEOs will give you a hard time over it. Maybe it's a local thing. Which is why I started this thread. Unless you OC why would a cop ever know you’re carrying? |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:46:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The people you are talking to are idiots. Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. I repeat what Andrewsky said. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:48:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were two lawyers from one of the ccw insurance companies who claimed on YouTube that you were better off with a CCW if you ended up in front of jury after a shooting A ccw permit could be used to prove you were well trained in firearm use and to distinguish how dangerous a situation is and if deadly force was needed, thus helping justify a shooting, which could also be used against you as easily as for you in many situations, as that same knowledge should have helped you avoid the entire situation to begin with. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:51:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't even have to look far for evidence to back up that statement. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/64025/VtailBonanza_jpg-2947824.JPG Posts the Dr killer to prove it! |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:52:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: They always answer "yeah, but..." kind of bullshit. They have been programmed to love their chains. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:53:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. There are lots of doctors and other professionals who are also idiots. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:53:20 PM EDT
[#14]
They have probably seen YouTube of idiots shooting themselves or others while screwing around with a loaded firearm.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 12:54:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Although we have CC here, I still renew my LTC. If I didn't have the LTC it wouldn't affect my carry habits.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:01:14 PM EDT
[#16]
I was stopped by a cop because my car matched the description of a recent robbery getaway car.
Even though I didn't have to disclose it, I told the cop that I was legally carrying. He asked if I had a CWP, I said yes and showed it to him (after telling him which pocket it was in). He looked at it, handed it back to me, and said "you don't need to keep your hands on the steering wheel". I did anyway. His attitude changed right away when he found out I had a permit. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:03:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Only person I knew that was against it was a Fudd NRA instructor whom I worked with, dude would lie to folks about self defense laws here in Ohio such as no " stand your ground ", saying people who had permits still had a duty to notify LEO but not those without and liked to use the classic blood in the street line.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:06:06 PM EDT
[#18]
I would bet most CHL holders are reluctant to carry even with the permit. I think it's often viewed as an inconvenience or chore to someone who doesn't carry habitually.
I kinda don't care about the opinions of people who don't carry regularly, they don't know what they don't know. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:14:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posts the Dr killer to prove it! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don't even have to look far for evidence to back up that statement. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/64025/VtailBonanza_jpg-2947824.JPG Posts the Dr killer to prove it! Doctors, lawyers, it's not too picky. They just have to have enough disposable income and enough ego. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:18:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Educated means they learned a specific thing (like a doctor or electrician), it does not mean wise, or have critical thinking skill. There are plenty of well educated people who are NOT wise or able to critically evaluate things.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:21:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m probably going to renew my carry card this fall and we have constitutional carry. It lets me carry in more out of state areas and also skip the 4473 phone call. If NH's law changed so the permit would get me out of that phone call, I'd renew my long-expired permit. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:23:29 PM EDT
[#22]
What reluctance? Yes, I have a permit, because it allows me to carry in a few places where I wouldn't otherwise be allowed to legally carry.
But I carry when & where I want, basically. OP, you need to talk to different people. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:24:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Lots of sheep are trained to need permission/permit from the govt for everything,just a guess
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:25:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The people you are talking to are idiots. Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. Ok so then they’re educated idiots. There’s a big difference between education and intelligence. In fact because most people can’t grasp that concept is a BIG reason this country is in the mess it’s in. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:26:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Most people who own firearms aren't diehard CCW'rs like us on this forum. They are in the "I support the 2A BUUUUUUT" crowd.
I still have my CCW license since we can bypass the NICS check when we buy a firearm in Iowa and present a valid Iowa CCW license. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:27:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are lots of doctors and other professionals who are also idiots. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. There are lots of doctors and other professionals who are also idiots. Remember, it's "Dr" Jill Biden. And a lot of "D"s with law degrees. 
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:31:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they had not bothered to get their CCW permit before Constitutional carry, carrying just wasn't that important to them to begin with. Or, concealed means concealed, and to hell with unconstitutional law, which we have a duty to ignore. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:32:13 PM EDT
[#28]
There are definitely LEOs (hopefully a rather small percentage) who will be aggressive when dealing with a citizen carrying. However, that tends to apply to those carrying Constitutional AND those carrying with a CCW permit. Unless there is a specific known issue with LEOs in your area, I wouldnt worry overmuch about it. I carry regularly and have had little negativity from LEOs I encounter.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:32:24 PM EDT
[#29]
FPNI, hard.
I'm in a CC state. I can still get a CCW permit but in ME that won't negate the need for a 4473 if I want to buy anything, so I don't see the point. I CCW everyday and everywhere where legal to do so. I've seen open carry in my AO as well. It just simply isn't an issue so long as you aren't doing anything stupid. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:34:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. You mean the guys who pushed the jab? |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:35:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, no. Not really. Many are well-educated professionals like doctors. Look. There are many types of people, and two types are those who will have the balls to draw a gun and defend themselves REGARDLESS of how much crap will come down on them afterward, and those who would not take up a gun if their lives depended on it - they are content to live in a semi-socialist state and depending SOLEY on the 'state' to protect them. They also believe in 'safe places'/gun-free zones, which to us are obviously open invitations to the crazies to go in there and kill a bunch of helpless people. I have come to believe that these people cannot be re-educated to have a more realistic world view, so we will be fighting them politically forever and possibly for real at some point. So, these people who question 'constitutional carry' are not merely 'academically' touching on a small point while essentially supporting widespread public carry, they are actually opposed to it and will vote against any and all forms of carry if they get a chance to. Don't forget, in most states not that many years ago, you had to go before a judge and convince him that you really needed that carry permit. The carry movement is still advancing, but there is an awful lot of resistance to it, and they tend to blame the many 'shootings' we are experiencing on 'easy access to guns' instead of blaming that element of society that is carrying out 95% of these gun crimes. So as you can see, we have the classic conflict set up between the irresistible force and the immovable object. This usually results in some kind of cosmic conflagration. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:36:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Educated means they learned a specific thing (like a doctor or electrician), it does not mean wise, or have critical thinking skill. There are plenty of well educated people who are NOT wise or able to critically evaluate things. I watched a guy who had a doctorate and was head of a university department act like he thought a Cessna 150 was some sort of off-road vehicle. I would be a little hesitant to take my Jeep through what he pointed the Cessna at and gunned the throttle, for fear of high centering it. He surprised me with how far he managed to get, but he got stuck just short of eating some pavement with the prop, then tried to rock the plane loose by alternating between full throttle and idle (getting the prop within an inch or less of eating the pavement, each time he went to full throttle). The stupid part was that there was a way to get around the obstacle, if he just took a left turn and went to the end of the obstacle. On the other hand, at the same airport, there was a doctor (head of radiology at a hospital in the area, if my memory isn't off) that would hang out at the airport on days when he was 'on call'. If there was some radio or nav equipment someone was interested in, they knew to ask him if he knew anything about it, because if he had ever taken an interest in it, he would research it until he had absorbed every scrap of information he could get his hands on, before deciding whether or not he really wanted it for his plane. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:48:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea, don't mind them. Do what you want sir. I certainly do How would anyone (including LE) know you're carrying, anyway? Is AR a "duty to inform" state? If not then don't. And most of those "constitutional carry" states only authorize Title I handguns (true for most permit states too) so if you're concealing a small select-fire weapon it's probably going to be illegal no matter what. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:52:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get a lot that say "you shouldn't be carrying without training". Bullshit I say. Also if you grew up poor like I did, you can self-learn most of that stuff just by practicing new concepts and gaining experience. Repetition is good for "muscle memory" but ensure you're practicing the "best/correct" actions first, before you commit to repeating them. Never stop learning. "Only perfect practice makes perfect," was something one of my old mentors liked to say. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 1:53:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TX has had open carry since 2021. I've seen a total of 2 people open carrying around Houston in that time  Same here (although I live in Smith County). I actually find it strange I don't see it more in my area considering the county voted to be a 2nd amendment sanctuary. In regards to the OP, I was also told something similar to you when I moved to Texas. Some people said it was better to get the permit still since you can carry more places (that's what they claimed). Not everyone said it though. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:01:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: My state has constitutional carry. Almost everyone I talk to about it invariably says they don't think it's a good idea without an actual permit. What gives with this? I always thought it was a great idea as I don't believe in needing permits to exercise my rights. They always answer "yeah, but..." kind of bullshit. I was excited when I moved here from communist Louisiana. But now I'm a little hesitant and worried that it would leave me open to being shaken down by LEOs. Any other constitutional carry staters want to chime in? Good reasons to have a permit even where not required. 1. Skipping background check 2. Reciprocity 3. Gun free school zone exemptions Some states have other explicit advantages for permits. Those may include carry in bars, or avoiding handgun registration, or legally able to borrow a handgun, but are state specific. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:05:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't even have to look far for evidence to back up that statement. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/64025/VtailBonanza_jpg-2947824.JPG Ha! |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:06:01 PM EDT
[#38]
If you travel to Michigan for vacation you have to have a license to purchase or license to carry a handgun in order to legally POSSESS an handgun in Michigan as a non resident. Lots of hunters and competition shooters routinely breaking that law though. A CCW qualifies. A FOID likely qualifies. Something like Californias firearms safety certificate (defacto purchase permit) might qualify as well.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:06:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got a permit for Arizona. Constitutional carry still limits you carrying in many areas the permit opens up. Everyone should have an Arizona permit. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:09:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of idiots out there with advanced degrees. Yep My gf open carry’s her hk vp9 every day without a permit. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:11:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless you OC why would a cop ever know you’re carrying? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why would you get a shake down? It is a lawful act. There is NO legal reason for them to contact you over a concealed firearm, as it was prior to the legal change. IDK. I SHOULDN'T, but most around here seem to think the LEOs will give you a hard time over it. Maybe it's a local thing. Which is why I started this thread. Unless you OC why would a cop ever know you’re carrying? Some states require you notify the cops if they pull you over in a tragic stop. I got pulled over as a passenger in Michigan a couple months ago. Told the officer I was armed. He said “in that case I just stopped you to say hello” please slow down”. He never asked for my permit or the drivers license and insurance. Cool cop. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:13:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m probably going to renew my carry card this fall and we have constitutional carry. It lets me carry in more out of state areas and also skip the 4473 phone call. I'm in the same boat as you. And you also have to look at their are people out there that shouldn't even be carrying a squirt gun. Let alone a real one. Like the hood rat that kinda points and sprays rounds not caring what they hit. Training is not a bad thing. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:13:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The people you are talking to are idiots. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:30:15 PM EDT
[#44]
My state is now permitless carry. I guess that is "constitutional" carry?
Lived here over 40 years. Most of the folks I've known don't EDC. I'd say those that do occasionally carry had carry permits. Mainly to cover them when they did CC. Especially for out of state travel and reciprocity. I've known several who have carried without a permit, even when it was required. We are now permitless, but i still hold an active permit for travel. As for out of staters, sometimes carrying concealed could be problematic in the state they are visiting because the constitutional carry there is only for residents. I know this was true of WY when i planned my first trip there. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:31:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The people you are talking to are idiots. First post nailed it. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 3:52:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don't even have to look far for evidence to back up that statement. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/64025/VtailBonanza_jpg-2947824.JPG Ha! As one of them lawyering types, you have considered buying one, haven't you? |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 5:04:03 PM EDT
[#47]
They have no concept of how many people CCW without permits in non constitutional carry states.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 5:35:22 PM EDT
[#48]
they are the same people who require a bill of sale for a private face to face firearm transaction.
simply scared of exercising their rights as an American. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 5:42:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: My state has constitutional carry. Almost everyone I talk to about it invariably says they don't think it's a good idea without an actual permit. What gives with this? I always thought it was a great idea as I don't believe in needing permits to exercise my rights. They always answer "yeah, but..." kind of bullshit. I was excited when I moved here from communist Louisiana. But now I'm a little hesitant and worried that it would leave me open to being shaken down by LEOs. Any other constitutional carry staters want to chime in? Sheep that are concerned for their own safety and inability to take advantage of the right to protect themselves and carry a gun. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 8:14:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm in the same boat as you. And you also have to look at their are people out there that shouldn't even be carrying a squirt gun. Let alone a real one. Like the hood rat that kinda points and sprays rounds not caring what they hit. Training is not a bad thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m probably going to renew my carry card this fall and we have constitutional carry. It lets me carry in more out of state areas and also skip the 4473 phone call. I'm in the same boat as you. And you also have to look at their are people out there that shouldn't even be carrying a squirt gun. Let alone a real one. Like the hood rat that kinda points and sprays rounds not caring what they hit. Training is not a bad thing. Agreed. But if you want to REQUIRE training you can FOAD. |
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