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Posted: 8/28/2023 4:06:12 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m assuming the foreign fighters, foreign volunteers and mercenaries in the Ukrainian regional conflict made a significant proportion of the military coffers. hundreds of thousands worth? You claimed Russia decimated them so how on earth is Ukraine still pushing? |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 4:46:51 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hundreds of thousands worth? You claimed Russia decimated them so how on earth is Ukraine still pushing? I'm amazed he even answered. It gets pretty silly when you combine it with all the parallel claims like "Ukraine is stuck in cold war soviet officer tactics!" Must be something in the water. Turns western officers into Ukrainian soviets. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 7:51:17 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m assuming the foreign fighters, foreign volunteers and mercenaries in the Ukrainian regional conflict made a significant proportion of the military coffers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When will that happen? With Russian sources claiming 400k dead Ukrainians in 18 months of fighting with a logical 1.2 million wounded shouldn't that happen soon? I’m assuming the foreign fighters, foreign volunteers and mercenaries in the Ukrainian regional conflict made a significant proportion of the military coffers. You assume that, huh? |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:00:31 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m assuming the foreign fighters, foreign volunteers and mercenaries in the Ukrainian regional conflict made a significant proportion of the military coffers. It's a pretty safe assumption considering there has not been a massive volunteering of the military aged male population of Ukraine considering the population and how many fled once the war started. There are plenty of videos out there showing the Ukraine government has had to resort to snatch and grab conscription operations on the streets of cities and towns. Hand them a rifle, fire 1 magazine worth of ammo in training, and off to the meet grinder they go. It's ugly. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:02:34 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a pretty safe assumption considering there has not been a massive volunteering of the military aged male population of Ukraine considering the population and how many fled once the war started. There are plenty of videos out there showing the Ukraine government has had to resort to snatch and grab conscription operations on the streets of cities and towns. Hand them a rifle, fire 1 magazine worth of ammo in training, and off to the meet grinder they go. It's ugly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m assuming the foreign fighters, foreign volunteers and mercenaries in the Ukrainian regional conflict made a significant proportion of the military coffers. It's a pretty safe assumption considering there has not been a massive volunteering of the military aged male population of Ukraine considering the population and how many fled once the war started. There are plenty of videos out there showing the Ukraine government has had to resort to snatch and grab conscription operations on the streets of cities and towns. Hand them a rifle, fire 1 magazine worth of ammo in training, and off to the meet grinder they go. It's ugly. What is your estimate of the “significant” proportion of the Ukrainian military? 50%? |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:08:26 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is your estimate of the “significant” proportion of the Ukrainian military? 50%? Really? This is what you want to argue over? If 10% of the entire US military decided to retire tomorrow, wouldn't that be "significant" or would you consider it a non-event? Does the sun rise in the east and set in the west in the world you live in? Lol 
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:19:32 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? This is what you want to argue over? If 10% of the entire US military decided to retire tomorrow, wouldn't that be "significant" or would you consider it a non-event? Does the sun rise in the east and set in the west in the world you live in? Lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What is your estimate of the “significant” proportion of the Ukrainian military? 50%? Really? This is what you want to argue over? If 10% of the entire US military decided to retire tomorrow, wouldn't that be "significant" or would you consider it a non-event? Does the sun rise in the east and set in the west in the world you live in? Lol You are the one making the ambiguous claim about foreign mercenaries, not me. You have no definition of “significant” in this context? |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:37:11 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a pretty safe assumption considering there has not been a massive volunteering of the military aged male population of Ukraine considering the population and how many fled once the war started. There are plenty of videos out there showing the Ukraine government has had to resort to snatch and grab conscription operations on the streets of cities and towns. Hand them a rifle, fire 1 magazine worth of ammo in training, and off to the meet grinder they go. It's ugly. You have no idea what's happening. Any arrest in the street gets recorded and portrayed as a shanghai enlistment by Russians, so you're saying with all of the- 1) normal law enforcement arrests for petty crime and drugs 2) arrests for war-related offenses like selling information and corruption, which I'm told is a thing in Ukraine ...you can tell from that grainy ten second video that it was a recruiting drive and not anything else? Because you saw it on the internet? Okay. And I know, you're going to show an interview with a Ukrainian POW, right? Guess what, that's the same thing the Russians say, and it's exactly what I would say. "Man, fuck those guys, I got drunk and woke up in a trench, I don't know NOTHIN'" Same reason you have to be suspicious of "liberation" videos. Of course they're glad to see you. As for training....
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Posted: 8/28/2023 8:48:12 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have no idea what's happening. Any arrest in the street gets recorded and portrayed as a shanghai enlistment by Russians, so you're saying with all of the- 1) normal law enforcement arrests for petty crime and drugs 2) arrests for war-related offenses like selling information and corruption, which I'm told is a thing in Ukraine ...you can tell from that grainy ten second video that it was a recruiting drive and not anything else? Because you saw it on the internet? Okay. And I know, you're going to show an interview with a Ukrainian POW, right? Guess what, that's the same thing the Russians say, and it's exactly what I would say. "Man, fuck those guys, I got drunk and woke up in a trench, I don't know NOTHIN'" Same reason you have to be suspicious of "liberation" videos. Of course they're glad to see you. As for training....
You have no idea what's happening. A mish-mash of tweets that goes back over a year seems to be trying to set a narrative that isn't accurate nor current. I'm not sure what you really have a problem with - it's just a simple fact that there has been no mass volunteering of male able bodied men in Ukraine to fight for their own lands. Is that even disputable? Why do they not have over 1 million in training and enlisted? Ukraine has over 7 million able bodied military aged men. "Guess what, that's the same thing the Russians say" Wait a second, didn't multiple Ukrainians say it? |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 9:26:58 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did they say they only wanted 1/5th of Ukraine? Because the public statement stated "Ukraine has returned to Russia". Nothing about the east. Nothing about 1/5th. But 100% of Ukraine. You don't assault into the enemy capitol with your best troops because you need a distraction. You use your gomers, pyles, and mobiks for that. Why are they continually assaulting in North Eastern Ukraine if they got what they wanted? @daoliver924  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 9:29:55 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have no idea what's happening. A mish-mash of tweets that goes back over a year seems to be trying to set a narrative that isn't accurate nor current. I'm not sure what you really have a problem with - it's just a simple fact that there has been no mass volunteering of male able bodied men in Ukraine to fight for their own lands. Is that even disputable? Why do they not have over 1 million in training and enlisted? Ukraine has over 7 million able bodied military aged men. "Guess what, that's the same thing the Russians say" Wait a second, didn't multiple Ukrainians say it? Yeah, actually, we do. Are you talking about the three tweets about the international training? Operation Interflex and Operation Unifier. You're free to Google that. It goes back a ways because it's been going on for a while- it takes some time to train 20,000 soldiers. They don't have a million man army because material is the bottleneck, not people. Reznikov said literally today they're not doing another mobilization. I wouldn't bet my ENTIRE paycheck on it, but it's a little more compelling than "trust me bro it's a safe assumption". And your last question- I didn't say that, but there have been hundreds of POW interviews done at this point from both sides. I've yet to see anyone say even the equivalent of "go fuck yourself" except for one guy who was immediately executed. Most people say whatever they think will put them in the good graces of their captors. None of that evidence, on either side, is "admissible" in a reasonable discussion. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:18:34 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even Russian sources admit it has been liberated This is what liberation looks like. 
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:26:17 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what liberation looks like. https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230825154105-ukraine-national-flag-robotyne.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill/f_webp Russian liberation is much better.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:28:18 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what liberation looks like. https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230825154105-ukraine-national-flag-robotyne.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill/f_webp Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Even Russian sources admit it has been liberated This is what liberation looks like. https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230825154105-ukraine-national-flag-robotyne.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill/f_webp Well of course it looks like a desolate wasteland. That's war in our time |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:30:19 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what liberation looks like. https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230825154105-ukraine-national-flag-robotyne.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill/f_webp 
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:35:24 PM EST
[#16]
Chechnya was, by the standards of supporting Ukraine, an integral part of the Russian Federation.
Syria was bombed by all sorts of people, and only mildly by Russia. I don't think we can blame conditions in Syria on the Russians in any event, and they intervened for purposes that while my interests, were not exactly completely off kilter. Indeed, the Obama Administration, in accepting Syrian Chemical weapons, agreed with Russia that the Baathists were the de jure government of Syria. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:49:26 PM EST
[#17]
The US, by standards of supporting Russia, is an integral part of the United Kingdom.
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:50:33 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have no idea what's happening. A mish-mash of tweets that goes back over a year seems to be trying to set a narrative that isn't accurate nor current. I'm not sure what you really have a problem with - it's just a simple fact that there has been no mass volunteering of male able bodied men in Ukraine to fight for their own lands. Is that even disputable? Why do they not have over 1 million in training and enlisted? Ukraine has over 7 million able bodied military aged men. "Guess what, that's the same thing the Russians say" Wait a second, didn't multiple Ukrainians say it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You have no idea what's happening. Any arrest in the street gets recorded and portrayed as a shanghai enlistment by Russians, so you're saying with all of the- 1) normal law enforcement arrests for petty crime and drugs 2) arrests for war-related offenses like selling information and corruption, which I'm told is a thing in Ukraine ...you can tell from that grainy ten second video that it was a recruiting drive and not anything else? Because you saw it on the internet? Okay. And I know, you're going to show an interview with a Ukrainian POW, right? Guess what, that's the same thing the Russians say, and it's exactly what I would say. "Man, fuck those guys, I got drunk and woke up in a trench, I don't know NOTHIN'" Same reason you have to be suspicious of "liberation" videos. Of course they're glad to see you. As for training....
You have no idea what's happening. A mish-mash of tweets that goes back over a year seems to be trying to set a narrative that isn't accurate nor current. I'm not sure what you really have a problem with - it's just a simple fact that there has been no mass volunteering of male able bodied men in Ukraine to fight for their own lands. Is that even disputable? Why do they not have over 1 million in training and enlisted? Ukraine has over 7 million able bodied military aged men. "Guess what, that's the same thing the Russians say" Wait a second, didn't multiple Ukrainians say it? guess storys like this are just bullshit huh? and 20000 foriegn fighters is not a large part of the fighting force inside Ukraine...ffs a monkey can do that math.  https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2023/02/16/a-year-ago-i-volunteered-as-a-soldier-in-the-ukrainian-army/index.html |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 10:55:36 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The US, by standards of supporting Russia, is an integral part of the United Kingdom. Ahhhh...the classic "you've pointed out a unpleasant truth so I'll brand you a 'Russian supporter'" maneuver. Good thing we've got AROKIE here to call bullshit on personal attacks. Chechnya was part of the Russian Federation. Is this correct or incorrect? I mean, its not a trick question. The official government of Syria invited the Russians into their country. Is this correct or incorrect? The United States government negotiated for the removal of chemical weapons under the control of the Ba'athist Party, did they not? These are pretty simple questions. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 11:14:46 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ahhhh...the classic "you've pointed out a unpleasant truth so I'll brand you a 'Russian supporter'" maneuver. Good thing we've got AROKIE here to call bullshit on personal attacks. Chechnya was part of the Russian Federation. Is this correct or incorrect? I mean, its not a trick question. The official government of Syria invited the Russians into their country. Is this correct or incorrect? The United States government negotiated for the removal of chemical weapons under the control of the Ba'athist Party, did they not? These are pretty simple questions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Ahhhh...the classic "you've pointed out a unpleasant truth so I'll brand you a 'Russian supporter'" maneuver. Good thing we've got AROKIE here to call bullshit on personal attacks. Chechnya was part of the Russian Federation. Is this correct or incorrect? I mean, its not a trick question. The official government of Syria invited the Russians into their country. Is this correct or incorrect? The United States government negotiated for the removal of chemical weapons under the control of the Ba'athist Party, did they not? These are pretty simple questions. What did this mean? Quoted: Chechnya was, by the standards of supporting Ukraine, an integral part of the Russian Federation. I guess it doesn't matter. Sure, Russia currently possesses Chechnya. If you said Ingushetiya was part of the Russian Federation, no question. That was arguably voluntary. Chechens made it pretty clear they didn't WANT to belong to Russia. Just like Georgia didn't and Moldova didn't. Not really interested in arguing distinctions with no difference. Russia is a wannabe empire cobbled together with violence and bribes, and it will come apart. |
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Posted: 8/28/2023 11:38:37 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess it doesn't matter. Sure, Russia currently possesses Chechnya. If you said Ingushetiya was part of the Russian Federation, no question. That was arguably voluntary. Chechens made it pretty clear they didn't WANT to belong to Russia. Just like Georgia didn't and Moldova didn't. Not really interested in arguing distinctions with no difference. Russia is a wannabe empire cobbled together with violence and bribes, and it will come apart. To the last point, I'd tend agree, but I don't know many nations in the west than would be immune from a similar claim. The justification for the defense of Ukraine is that its a sovereign state under the Montevideo Convention definition. That's fair. Chechnya wasn't. Syria was. In the specific case of the Former Soviet Union the distinction was one that is rooted in the dynamics of the Soviet Union, where certain nations who were republics, eventually became recognized sovereign states, and places that weren't (like Ossetia or Chechnya) didn't. So, we as the West are defending the borders of a state arrived at by force at the expense of other nations, and shaped due to the internal logic of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. At the very least, it should at least give one pause on the type and durability of whatever peace we can achieve. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 12:25:03 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To the last point, I'd tend agree, but I don't know many nations in the west than would be immune from a similar claim. The justification for the defense of Ukraine is that its a sovereign state under the Montevideo Convention definition. That's fair. Chechnya wasn't. Syria was. In the specific case of the Former Soviet Union the distinction was one that is rooted in the dynamics of the Soviet Union, where certain nations who were republics, eventually became recognized sovereign states, and places that weren't (like Ossetia or Chechnya) didn't. So, we as the West are defending the borders of a state arrived at by force at the expense of other nations, and shaped due to the internal logic of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. At the very least, it should at least give one pause on the type and durability of whatever peace we can achieve. Ah, I see what you're saying. I retract my snark, with apologies. I can acknowledge that as a reasonable argument, but not an entirely fair one. I realize it's tempting to describe a document called "Rights and Duties of States" as providing a definitive description of statehood, but considering international law is...law, naturally the most important central concept is poorly defined and loosely applied, and has been long after 1933. Article 1, depending who you ask, is too strict or too vague, leaves stuff out or has unnecessary requirements, and when applied to a state "hardly says anything at all", prompting philosophical arguments long into the night. No thank you, sir  |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 12:25:39 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To the last point, I'd tend agree, but I don't know many nations in the west than would be immune from a similar claim. The justification for the defense of Ukraine is that its a sovereign state under the Montevideo Convention definition. That's fair. Chechnya wasn't. Syria was. In the specific case of the Former Soviet Union the distinction was one that is rooted in the dynamics of the Soviet Union, where certain nations who were republics, eventually became recognized sovereign states, and places that weren't (like Ossetia or Chechnya) didn't. So, we as the West are defending the borders of a state arrived at by force at the expense of other nations, and shaped due to the internal logic of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. At the very least, it should at least give one pause on the type and durability of whatever peace we can achieve. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess it doesn't matter. Sure, Russia currently possesses Chechnya. If you said Ingushetiya was part of the Russian Federation, no question. That was arguably voluntary. Chechens made it pretty clear they didn't WANT to belong to Russia. Just like Georgia didn't and Moldova didn't. Not really interested in arguing distinctions with no difference. Russia is a wannabe empire cobbled together with violence and bribes, and it will come apart. To the last point, I'd tend agree, but I don't know many nations in the west than would be immune from a similar claim. The justification for the defense of Ukraine is that its a sovereign state under the Montevideo Convention definition. That's fair. Chechnya wasn't. Syria was. In the specific case of the Former Soviet Union the distinction was one that is rooted in the dynamics of the Soviet Union, where certain nations who were republics, eventually became recognized sovereign states, and places that weren't (like Ossetia or Chechnya) didn't. So, we as the West are defending the borders of a state arrived at by force at the expense of other nations, and shaped due to the internal logic of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. At the very least, it should at least give one pause on the type and durability of whatever peace we can achieve. I agree. ( the bold) |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 12:43:29 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree. ( the bold) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess it doesn't matter. Sure, Russia currently possesses Chechnya. If you said Ingushetiya was part of the Russian Federation, no question. That was arguably voluntary. Chechens made it pretty clear they didn't WANT to belong to Russia. Just like Georgia didn't and Moldova didn't. Not really interested in arguing distinctions with no difference. Russia is a wannabe empire cobbled together with violence and bribes, and it will come apart. To the last point, I'd tend agree, but I don't know many nations in the west than would be immune from a similar claim. The justification for the defense of Ukraine is that its a sovereign state under the Montevideo Convention definition. That's fair. Chechnya wasn't. Syria was. In the specific case of the Former Soviet Union the distinction was one that is rooted in the dynamics of the Soviet Union, where certain nations who were republics, eventually became recognized sovereign states, and places that weren't (like Ossetia or Chechnya) didn't. So, we as the West are defending the borders of a state arrived at by force at the expense of other nations, and shaped due to the internal logic of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. At the very least, it should at least give one pause on the type and durability of whatever peace we can achieve. I agree. ( the bold) It worries me because we are ass deep to a 12 foot Indian in proxy capture. The Ukrainians are very publicly, to an incredibly annoying and unhelpful level, attached to a maximalist position of the return to the 1954 Borders of the Ukrainian SSR. I get WHY they feel that way. That's just not necessarily the position that addresses the interests of the US. See also, South Korea. The issue for me that is it perceived as a failure for the US if we don't get close to that? I don't know what we are telling the Ukrainians privately, BUT I think we are getting to the point where we need to start telling the Ukrainians publicly to shut up and color. In the old days flapping your yap like that might get you Diem'd. Now, obviously not so much. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 12:49:49 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It worries me because we are ass deep to a 12 foot Indian in proxy capture. The Ukrainians are very publicly, to an incredibly annoying and unhelpful level, attached to a maximalist position of the return to the 1954 Borders of the Ukrainian SSR. I get WHY they feel that way. That's just not necessarily the position that addresses the interests of the US. See also, South Korea. The issue for me that is it perceived as a failure for the US if we don't get close to that? I don't know what we are telling the Ukrainians privately, BUT I think we are getting to the point where we need to start telling the Ukrainians publicly to shut up and color. In the old days flapping your yap like that might get you Diem'd. Now, obviously not so much. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess it doesn't matter. Sure, Russia currently possesses Chechnya. If you said Ingushetiya was part of the Russian Federation, no question. That was arguably voluntary. Chechens made it pretty clear they didn't WANT to belong to Russia. Just like Georgia didn't and Moldova didn't. Not really interested in arguing distinctions with no difference. Russia is a wannabe empire cobbled together with violence and bribes, and it will come apart. To the last point, I'd tend agree, but I don't know many nations in the west than would be immune from a similar claim. The justification for the defense of Ukraine is that its a sovereign state under the Montevideo Convention definition. That's fair. Chechnya wasn't. Syria was. In the specific case of the Former Soviet Union the distinction was one that is rooted in the dynamics of the Soviet Union, where certain nations who were republics, eventually became recognized sovereign states, and places that weren't (like Ossetia or Chechnya) didn't. So, we as the West are defending the borders of a state arrived at by force at the expense of other nations, and shaped due to the internal logic of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. At the very least, it should at least give one pause on the type and durability of whatever peace we can achieve. I agree. ( the bold) It worries me because we are ass deep to a 12 foot Indian in proxy capture. The Ukrainians are very publicly, to an incredibly annoying and unhelpful level, attached to a maximalist position of the return to the 1954 Borders of the Ukrainian SSR. I get WHY they feel that way. That's just not necessarily the position that addresses the interests of the US. See also, South Korea. The issue for me that is it perceived as a failure for the US if we don't get close to that? I don't know what we are telling the Ukrainians privately, BUT I think we are getting to the point where we need to start telling the Ukrainians publicly to shut up and color. In the old days flapping your yap like that might get you Diem'd. Now, obviously not so much. yea it would help if they toned down the public display of "expecations", I do understand that they are at a level of bitterness that detering them right now from those goals only lands on deaf ears. who knows what we and other major countries are telling the Ukrainians privately, but either way bellowing out "expectations" only allows for moral defeat when those goals are not reached. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 12:53:08 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia holds 1/5th of Ukraine. Basically all of what they wanted More like a sixth. If they didn’t want to control more they wouldn’t have taken, then lost as much again as they took in 2022. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 12:55:47 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yea it would help if they toned down the public display of "expecations", I do understand that they are at a level of bitterness that detering them right now from those goals only lands on deaf ears. who knows what we and other major countries are telling the Ukrainians privately, but either way bellowing out "expectations" only allows for moral defeat when those goals are not reached. 100% |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 3:32:08 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It worries me because we are ass deep to a 12 foot Indian in proxy capture. The Ukrainians are very publicly, to an incredibly annoying and unhelpful level, attached to a maximalist position of the return to the 1954 Borders of the Ukrainian SSR. I get WHY they feel that way. That's just not necessarily the position that addresses the interests of the US. See also, South Korea. The issue for me that is it perceived as a failure for the US if we don't get close to that? I don't know what we are telling the Ukrainians privately, BUT I think we are getting to the point where we need to start telling the Ukrainians publicly to shut up and color. In the old days flapping your yap like that might get you Diem'd. Now, obviously not so much. Biden is an idiot who runs his mouth. He should have left some wiggle room and he should have his hand so hat up Zelenskyys ass that he’s operating his mouth like a puppet. And if you make big promises you do the work to follow through. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 3:35:36 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a pretty safe assumption considering there has not been a massive volunteering of the military aged male population of Ukraine considering the population and how many fled once the war started. There are plenty of videos out there showing the Ukraine government has had to resort to snatch and grab conscription operations on the streets of cities and towns. Hand them a rifle, fire 1 magazine worth of ammo in training, and off to the meet grinder they go. It's ugly. Well over 90% of refugees were women, old men and children. They’ve cycled over a million people through uniform so far. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 6:38:12 AM EST
[#30]
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Posted: 8/29/2023 6:46:58 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It worries me because we are ass deep to a 12 foot Indian in proxy capture. The Ukrainians are very publicly, to an incredibly annoying and unhelpful level, attached to a maximalist position of the return to the 1954 Borders of the Ukrainian SSR. I get WHY they feel that way. That's just not necessarily the position that addresses the interests of the US. See also, South Korea. The issue for me that is it perceived as a failure for the US if we don't get close to that? I don't know what we are telling the Ukrainians privately, BUT I think we are getting to the point where we need to start telling the Ukrainians publicly to shut up and color. In the old days flapping your yap like that might get you Diem'd. Now, obviously not so much. I think Ukraine's goal of restoring to the 1954 borders will not be achievable. Yeah, so much for ra-ra Ukraine all the time. I'm a realist. I think they will break the land bridge but pushing Russia out of Crimea will be a bridge too far. It's been fortified for 9 years and it's a small area to push through that's undoubtedly filled with more mines along an even shorter area and without an Inchon style amphibious assault which Ukraine is not capable or trained for they can't. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 6:48:07 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what liberation looks like. https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/230825154105-ukraine-national-flag-robotyne.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill/f_webp People correctly rebutted your argument below. @palooka84 
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Posted: 8/29/2023 6:58:23 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well over 90% of refugees were women, old men and children. They’ve cycled over a million people through uniform so far. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a pretty safe assumption considering there has not been a massive volunteering of the military aged male population of Ukraine considering the population and how many fled once the war started. There are plenty of videos out there showing the Ukraine government has had to resort to snatch and grab conscription operations on the streets of cities and towns. Hand them a rifle, fire 1 magazine worth of ammo in training, and off to the meet grinder they go. It's ugly. Well over 90% of refugees were women, old men and children. They’ve cycled over a million people through uniform so far. And only around 20000 foreign volunteers which is NOT the bulk of the fighting men as those guys think. The first months of the war they could not even handle everyone who showed up at recruiting offices. So there line of bullshit they are spewing is false. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:34:38 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And only around 20000 foreign volunteers which is NOT the bulk of the fighting men as those guys think. The first months of the war they could not even handle everyone who showed up at recruiting offices. So there line of bullshit they are spewing is false. And most of those were already killed as @AC_Doctor stated, per Russian state media 
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:45:56 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, Sprinter. Just in case you have any doubts where Sprinter’s loyalties lie. Wonder who’s writing his checks now? 
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:54:38 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well over 90% of refugees were women, old men and children. They’ve cycled over a million people through uniform so far. This sounds made up considering there is no evidence to support your claim. It's obvious there has been no mass enlistment or volunteering of Ukraine abled bodied men to fight for their own lands. If there was we wouldn't see them partying at beach clubs. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 10:28:31 AM EST
[#37]
Lloyd Austin and GEN Milley said it's all gonna be just fine:
 Only armchair generals would question their military genius: 130 Retired Generals, Admirals Demand Resignations From Milley, Austin Over Afghanistan Disaster Truth is they want a bloodbath in Ukraine and have been working hard to create one. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 10:31:50 AM EST
[#38]
Hungarian President Novák Tells Zelensky It’s Time “To Sit Down at the Negotiating Table”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/americas-top-ten-countdown-wayne-allyn-root-real-9/ |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 10:33:56 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hungarian President Novák Tells Zelensky It’s Time “To Sit Down at the Negotiating Table” https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/americas-top-ten-countdown-wayne-allyn-root-real-9/ Lol he said the same thing like the second day of the invasion...  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 10:38:34 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds made up considering there is no evidence to support your claim. It's obvious there has been no mass enlistment or volunteering of Ukraine abled bodied men to fight for their own lands. If there was we wouldn't see them partying at beach clubs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well over 90% of refugees were women, old men and children. They’ve cycled over a million people through uniform so far. This sounds made up considering there is no evidence to support your claim. It's obvious there has been no mass enlistment or volunteering of Ukraine abled bodied men to fight for their own lands. If there was we wouldn't see them partying at beach clubs. Where is your evidence? A couple Twitter videos? You are bullshitting yourself if you don't think the Ukrainians are not volunteering. The majority of them are, when the war started there form of the draft went into effect, just like we did in Vietnam. The fact is whether they were drafted or volunteered doesn't even matter so why even make an issue out of it? The war is still going to happen no matter what. Especially no matter what you think. They are bleeding and dieing for there country, and they should be commended for doing so. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 3:43:03 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds made up considering there is no evidence to support your claim. It's obvious there has been no mass enlistment or volunteering of Ukraine abled bodied men to fight for their own lands. If there was we wouldn't see them partying at beach clubs. There has been a lot of people volunteering. A lot. The entire Russian army was held off from Sumy by civilians fighting.  SUMY. THE GUT PUNCH [Incredible bravery of civilians] It has English subtitles so you can understand.
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Posted: 8/29/2023 3:46:35 PM EST
[#42]
New Russian video out urging Ukrainians to surrender. Watch the whole thing - it goes pretty hard.
https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1696213382943150182 |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 3:56:21 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lloyd Austin and GEN Milley said it's all gonna be just fine: https://www.wnd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/c17-afghanistan.jpeg https://i.insider.com/6119682bc040ad0018ce63f1?format=jpeg Only armchair generals would question their military genius: 130 Retired Generals, Admirals Demand Resignations From Milley, Austin Over Afghanistan Disaster Truth is they want a bloodbath in Ukraine and have been working hard to create one. Wait, you trust them? What are the differences between Afghanistan and Ukraine? @R_S |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 3:57:20 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New Russian video out urging Ukrainians to surrender. Watch the whole thing - it goes pretty hard. https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1696213382943150182 Ukrainian soldier castrated and executed by Russian soldiers |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 4:03:48 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New Russian video out urging Ukrainians to surrender. Watch the whole thing - it goes pretty hard. https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1696213382943150182 Yeah i'd totally run out in the open hands in the air towards this group.   Ukraine War: Cyclist appears to be shot by Russian armoured vehicles in Bucha |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 4:39:38 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah i'd totally run out in the open hands in the air towards this group.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z9gcV00bMoThat's the MO of Russian soldiers towards civilians in conquered areas. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 4:52:06 PM EST
[#47]
Ukrainian soldier goes onto 4chan to ask how to fix his rifle.
https://boards.4channel.org/k/thread/59393320 |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 5:22:38 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There has been a lot of people volunteering. A lot. The entire Russian army was held off from Sumy by civilians fighting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuimSxSsOLsIt has English subtitles so you can understand. This is propaganda and a lie. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 5:43:15 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is propaganda and a lie. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There has been a lot of people volunteering. A lot. The entire Russian army was held off from Sumy by civilians fighting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuimSxSsOLsIt has English subtitles so you can understand. This is propaganda and a lie. Because YOUR lies and propaganda say otherwise? 
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Posted: 8/29/2023 6:12:53 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because YOUR lies and propaganda say otherwise? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There has been a lot of people volunteering. A lot. The entire Russian army was held off from Sumy by civilians fighting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuimSxSsOLsIt has English subtitles so you can understand. This is propaganda and a lie. Because YOUR lies and propaganda say otherwise? T'was just a faint. Russia retreating was just a good will gesture I mean for fucks sake I would think this site would be all behind local regulars and millitia taking up arms against some asshole invading Red dawn style. Instead I see far to much pearl cluticng about Ukraine banning the fucking Communist Party. Russian IW really did a number on some here. |
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