Posted: Yesterday 4:37:54 PM EDT
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With the ATF giving guidance on transferring MGs from the government to civilians... Three questions: Who do I talk to? What will be available? How much will it cost me? Inquiring minds want to know. |
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Originally Posted By NAM: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/subnetfavoritelol-1033.gif 1140-AA80 Registering NFA Firearms That Fall Out of Government Contract - NPRM https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/atf-launches-new-era-reform/reduce-burden#1140-AA80 |
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Originally Posted By Shinji_Ikari: 1140-AA80 Registering NFA Firearms That Fall Out of Government Contract - NPRM https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/atf-launches-new-era-reform/reduce-burden#1140-AA80 Normally MGs manufactured/made or imported pursuant to federal government contracts don't need to be marked or registered in the NFRTR. This will just give the SOTs an option to engrave and F2 within a 15-day window (if no longer covered by a government contract). It doesn't render them transferable or anything. They're still post-86 dealer samples. This is referring to SOTs supplying MGs to the U.S. government (under contract) not MGs coming from the government. Sometimes those contracts end, and then SOTs are left "holding the bag" of undelivered MGs. This partially alleviates that burden. |
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Originally Posted By Sinister: ... and the rest of the pre-86 weapons in storage. Originally Posted By Sinister: Originally Posted By 1BMF: So when will the CMP be selling M16A1s?  No kidding. They should be selling all that stuff off, and turning around and buying two new ones from the proceeds of each one sold… |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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As the West Virginia effort points out, there's theoretically nothing stopping an agency from filing a F4 to transfer their own post-86 MG directly to an individual. Except politics. The real question is whether NFA Branch would sign off on the F4 or not. Legally, I think it juuust might fly. And if rumors of increasing numbers on the registry over the years are true, then it might have already happened in the past..? |
I tried this avenue years ago at a military base that needed some contracting work done but didn’t have the budget. I told them I’d do the whole job at my expense, but I wanted payment in the form of (2) Browning M2HB’s on a legal transfer. They had them to spare at this particular establishment. Everyone was cool with it until we got to the Base Commander, who said “absolutely not”! 
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This also may help the issue with imported MGs sitting in bonded warehouses. If you are a manufacturer and import a couple thousand MGs for LE sales, they sit in a bonded warehouse in the US but are not officially "imported" until there is a LE Sale and someone does and end user certificate and ATF approves the "import" on a Form 6 and the subsequent transfers. There is a time limit of a couple years or so. Anything that doesn't sell by the limit has to be scrapped at the importer's expense. This leads to some occasional blowout sales prices for agencies, as it is cheaper than scrapping them. I think this also might be where at least some of the "kits" for certain MGs have come from. |
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Originally Posted By HammerHammer: I tried this avenue years ago at a military base that needed some contracting work done but didn’t have the budget. I told them I’d do the whole job at my expense, but I wanted payment in the form of (2) Browning M2HB’s on a legal transfer. They had them to spare at this particular establishment. Everyone was cool with it until we got to the Base Commander, who said “absolutely not”! If you hadn’t got greedy and asked for 1 it would have happened. But you just had to dual wield…. |
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Originally Posted By WesJanson: As the West Virginia effort points out, there's theoretically nothing stopping an agency from filing a F4 to transfer their own post-86 MG directly to an individual. Except politics. The real question is whether NFA Branch would sign off on the F4 or not. Legally, I think it juuust might fly. And if rumors of increasing numbers on the registry over the years are true, then it might have already happened in the past..? Every new silencer, SBR, MG, etc. manufactured on F2 by any SOT goes onto the registry. LE agencies can still register new MGs on Form 1. Are you referring to increasing numbers of transferable MGs? That happens too... There's all the pre-samples that ATF decided are actually transferables in the last couple years. Also, every now and then, somebody finds WWII capture papers for a SMG or something grandpa never registered in the '68 amnesty after bringing it home from the war. If they show ATF that signed capture/bringback authorization document from WWII, they'll add the gun to the registry as a transferable MG. |
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Originally Posted By TraininginTexas: If you are a manufacturer and import a couple thousand MGs for LE sales, they sit in a bonded warehouse in the US but are not officially "imported" until there is a LE Sale and someone does and end user certificate and ATF approves the "import" on a Form 6 and the subsequent transfers. There is a time limit of a couple years or so. Anything that doesn't sell by the limit has to be scrapped at the importer's expense. This leads to some occasional blowout sales prices for agencies, as it is cheaper than scrapping them. I think this also might be where at least some of the "kits" for certain MGs have come from. My friend at the importer said they engraved just a few for government sales. You can see the engraved lines they added on the RPD receiver. The rest is untouched from the Radom plant. Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Any idea how often that actually happens? Most LE admins want to only issue semi-autos. You could probably send a FOIA request to ATF, asking them how many MGs have been approved on F1 each year for the last 10 years, and then you'd have your answer. |
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder: You could probably send a FOIA request to ATF, asking them how many MGs have been approved on F1 each year for the last 10 years, and then you'd have your answer. Well I've never made a FOIA request before, but that was easier than I thought. I requested the number of Form 1 and Form 10 machinegun registrations by year, for the last 10 years. No idea how long it will take though. |
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Originally Posted By CleverNickname: Well I've never made a FOIA request before, but that was easier than I thought. I requested the number of Form 1 and Form 10 machinegun registrations by year, for the last 10 years. Please share the answer with us when you receive it. |
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Originally Posted By misanthrope64: Didn’t Bill Clinton send all the older firearms belonging to the government to Captain Crunch back in the’90s ? I doubt we will see any pre-86 full autos. CMP is slated to sell us some genuine M14 rifles next year for about $2k apiece. I’m buying two! |