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Posted: 5/7/2017 11:50:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
You aren't an empiricist either. Second hand experience is NOT a derivative of sensory experience. The whole point of the empiricist movement was the complete destruction of the body of current knowledge to be rebuilt into a completely rational structure. which, prima facie, is obviously impossible. Berkeley was the most extreme of the Empiricists yet was a anglican bishop. The why is left as an exercise to the student. You must reject the whole of "accepted knowledge" to be an actual empiricist. words have meaning. And Aristotle was not an empiricist, Descartes was the first. And in that vein... http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/s/p/9/r/i/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gsogn4.png/1479190446838.jpg I am an empiricist, but these days the gods and superstitions have changed. They had to contend with church law and "God's mandate to rule" We have political affiliation and telecoms. And in that vein.. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 11:52:50 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 5/7/2017 12:02:42 PM EDT
[#3]
You're an empiricist the same way I am a major league baseball player.
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Posted: 5/7/2017 12:23:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
You're an empiricist the same way I am a major league baseball player. https://indelegate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/pepe-france-e1493044788162.jpg 
Dan Bell  Failed To Load Title For those interested in the exchange between Sylvan and I, it is actually a very old philosophical/epistemological debate. It goes all the way back at least 2200 years to Plato and Aristotle. The best part is we are both equally right. Here is an excellent shortish read on the subject. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/ |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 12:53:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Aristotle was the impetus of the movement, even though his civilization was dead. The body of contemporary knowledge during Locke, Berkley and Humes time was completely based on superstition and Church dictate. It had no basis in sensory experience. I am an empiricist, but these days the gods and superstitions have changed. They had to contend with church law and "God's mandate to rule" We have political affiliation and telecoms. And in that vein.. https://i.reddituploads.com/45851796e7974254bb72bf0325c3b0b5?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=c01d8fb5f3e5159124cd34b26d941388 |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 1:45:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#6]
There has been a last minute Guac Party surge among French voters! 
It's hard out here for a Vichy! 
Latest from infowarsdotcom 
Will YOU do your part? 
Remember folks we are all kafir to the foe. 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:29:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
An Empiricist, or Objectivist, as Ayn Rand called herself..... though I prefer to think of myself as libertine. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:30:21 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:31:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Empiricism is the antithesis of ideology BTW. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:32:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
Where is your meme? Timeout for anyone who posts in this thread who doesn't post a meme! http://www.motherjones.com/files/pepememe630.jpg 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:34:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#11]
France no! you've Snarfed the dogshit Macaroons!
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
i should have kept reading. this confirms that you definitely do not. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Empiricism is the antithesis of ideology BTW. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/ |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:36:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#12]
Well, France votes terror and rape, but then, what else is new?
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
i should have kept reading. this confirms that you definitely do not. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Empiricism is the antithesis of ideology BTW. I want you to look up antonyms of the word ideology. lulz Fine, I did it for you. https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/ideologue |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:39:04 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 5/7/2017 3:14:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Infographic worth taking a look at. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/317173/saninforgraphic-202630.jpg |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 3:18:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
Where is your meme? Timeout for anyone who posts in this thread who doesn't post a meme! http://www.motherjones.com/files/pepememe630.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By bodybagger:
I move for a time out Timeout for anyone who posts in this thread who doesn't post a meme! http://www.motherjones.com/files/pepememe630.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 3:22:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
i should have kept reading. this confirms that you definitely do not. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 3:24:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bodybagger]
[#17]
After seeing the election results this seems in order
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 3:27:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MCSquared:
Can you post a link to the original, @waterglass? That's way too small for my old eyes to get value from. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MCSquared:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Infographic worth taking a look at. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/317173/saninforgraphic-202630.jpg gratuitous meme 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 3:27:55 PM EDT
[#19]
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2017 3:35:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Balista:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_O5IhCUMAAsoE4.jpg |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 5:11:37 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 5/7/2017 5:17:08 PM EDT
[#22]
2050 or 2080?
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Posted: 5/7/2017 5:17:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote History2017 apparently. 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 5:35:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
i don't think you understand what these words mean. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 5:40:43 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 5/7/2017 5:41:59 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 5/7/2017 5:45:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dr1zEDnRqyk/maxresdefault.jpg Macron wins French presidency by decisive margin over Le Pen French election: Macron defeats Le Pen French election results LIVE: Updates as Macron WINS, defeating Marine Le Pen Marine Le Pen falls short in far-right bid for the presidency of France |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 6:09:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EvanWilliams:
No, none of us understand anything. You are the only smart person here. We are so lucky to have your superior intellect. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EvanWilliams:
Originally Posted By sirensong:
i don't think you understand what these words mean. 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 6:21:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motown_steve:
Well, a "libertine" as I understand it, is a sexually immoral woman, so I don't think you know what that word means. To be a libertine one must simply reject societal mores. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 6:25:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
A rational man would first define Ideology. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture. n. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system. But lets define rational, shall we? having reason or understandingb : relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason Because a Set of doctrine or beliefs is mutually exclusive to having understanding. So your reasoning forbids you to develop a fixed set of beliefs. Whatever Bill Nye says today is inherently rational, ergo, you beliefs and ideas must be easily swayed to remain "rational" Alright. Sounds cool. No judgement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
Rational. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture. n. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system. But lets define rational, shall we? having reason or understandingb : relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason Because a Set of doctrine or beliefs is mutually exclusive to having understanding. So your reasoning forbids you to develop a fixed set of beliefs. Whatever Bill Nye says today is inherently rational, ergo, you beliefs and ideas must be easily swayed to remain "rational" Alright. Sounds cool. No judgement. A person can have a set of ideological conclusions without being an ideologue. The ideologue clings to his ideology to the exclusion of good judgment or reason. Like the cartoon about liberals: Reason dictates, "If our conclusions do not fit the data, change the conclusions." An ideologue screeches, "If our conclusions do not fit the data, ignore the data and increase the volume." Having a set of conclusions about the basis for a social, political, or economic order is NOT mutually exclusive with using reason or having understanding. Reaching those conclusions THROUGH the use of reason and understanding is the only acceptable way to have conclusions, frankly. Besides, I don't give a shit about what anybody BELIEVES, I want to hear what they KNOW through rational analysis of data that creates sustainable conclusions. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 7:14:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spartacus2002:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sophistry A person can have a set of ideological conclusions without being an ideologue. The ideologue clings to his ideology to the exclusion of good judgment or reason. Like the cartoon about liberals: Reason dictates, "If our conclusions do not fit the data, change the conclusions." An ideologue screeches, "If our conclusions do not fit the data, ignore the data and increase the volume." Having a set of conclusions about the basis for a social, political, or economic order is NOT mutually exclusive with using reason or having understanding. Reaching those conclusions THROUGH the use of reason and understanding is the only acceptable way to have conclusions, frankly. Besides, I don't give a shit about what anybody BELIEVES, I want to hear what they KNOW through rational analysis of data that creates sustainable conclusions. Sophist? Just speaking the plain truth An ideologue is simply someone with an ideology by definition. Liberals have changed the definition to be used as an insult to those who oppose THEIR ideology. That somehow compromise is an inherent virtue regardless the subject. Note the Mirriam Webster definition. This is apparently your favorite reference. Definition of ideologue. : an impractical idealist : theorist : an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology and yet, for non native english speakers, the same reference defines it as such. : someone who very strongly supports and is guided by the ideology of a particular group the word comes from the French. idéologue Itself from the Greek idea+logos Idea (literal Translation) + Logos (in this case "Reason") If one lacks an ideology, they obviously cannot be an ideologue. But if one has an ideology and, one would hope, actually supports his ideology, they would be an ideologue. If one rejects their own ideology, they are unpredictable, as they will go whatever way the winds take them. I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 7:22:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sirensong]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EvanWilliams:
No, none of us understand anything. You are the only smart person here. We are so lucky to have your superior intellect. you're a biologist, right? then you understand what it's like to hear someone flailing around and making mistakes while talking about your field, no? and with that, i'm returning to timeout. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 7:35:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: longhunter09]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rosejackets67:
This is a meme thread. Nobody comes here to look at your arguing. @sylvan @waterglass  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 9:45:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
i don't know about my intellect, but my undergrad specifically focused on the intersection of epistemology and ethics, and my thesis research continued that trajectory into politics and economics. therefore things like empiricism, rationalism, and ideology are kinda my wheelhouse. you're a biologist, right? then you understand what it's like to hear someone flailing around and making mistakes while talking about your field, no? and with that, i'm returning to timeout. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 9:49:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By longhunter09:
I just want more dank memes and for mommy and daddy to stop fighting. Feels sad man. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/270037/images-2-203783.JPG  Chicken Tendies |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 10:04:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Look over there Sylvan, a CAS thread!
Go get'em! 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 10:25:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Well, France votes terror and rape, but then, what else is new? 
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Posted: 5/7/2017 10:32:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shade_1313:
I will gladly swap all of the Hillary voters for all of the Le Pen voters. https://out.reddit.com/t3_69sron?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUENNMxQ.jpg&token=AQAAn-QPWfVQ0f69SOM0JWU5vzNES-yZTO_hxaBPQw4fU2Fbi9DG&app_name=reddit.com |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 10:42:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rcav8r:
Someome needs to make a trump twitter of that plan. The left will take it seriously. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rcav8r:
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
I will gladly swap all of the Hillary voters for all of the Le Pen voters. https://out.reddit.com/t3_69sron?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUENNMxQ.jpg&token=AQAAn-QPWfVQ0f69SOM0JWU5vzNES-yZTO_hxaBPQw4fU2Fbi9DG&app_name=reddit.com They'll never actually do it, though. 
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Posted: 5/8/2017 5:19:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Kek...uh...finds a way.
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Posted: 5/8/2017 9:09:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
i don't know about my intellect, but my undergrad specifically focused on the intersection of epistemology and ethics, and my thesis research continued that trajectory into politics and economics. therefore things like empiricism, rationalism, and ideology are kinda my wheelhouse. you're a biologist, right? then you understand what it's like to hear someone flailing around and making mistakes while talking about your field, no? and with that, i'm returning to timeout. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By EvanWilliams:
No, none of us understand anything. You are the only smart person here. We are so lucky to have your superior intellect. you're a biologist, right? then you understand what it's like to hear someone flailing around and making mistakes while talking about your field, no? and with that, i'm returning to timeout. You Two are This isn't about what I do or do not know. This is about the implication that I think what you believe is flattery. You two have invested yourselves into magical thinking, and it pisses you off when I say that it is irrational. Politics and economics. That is right up there with the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pen. Powers completely contrived from the minds of men, (civil authority, cultural norms, money, law, regulation, expressions of ways and means) and despite it's chaotic failure, we insist next time we will get it right, despite the last 5,000 years of experience. That was not my intent though with the original statement, that ideologues are stupid. My point was, Communists choosing Phd candidates is bad. You can take a Bill Maher, with all of the blind and self serving pretenses of his ideology, and no amount of education will change what he is. He will use it to the detriment of others, while rationalizing it as necessary to do so. Colleges only allow a small percentage of students in any field attain them, to make them valuable due to their relative scarcity. That is bad. |
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Posted: 5/8/2017 9:45:10 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By longhunter09:
I just want more dank memes and for mommy and daddy to stop fighting. Feels sad man. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/270037/images-2-203783.JPG |
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Posted: 5/8/2017 9:50:29 AM EDT
[#43]
Here we go again...
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Posted: 5/8/2017 9:54:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: shade_1313]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eeshooter45:
Here we go again... http://c8.alamy.com/comp/E5GGDC/1940-new-york-post-front-page-reporting-france-surrenders-to-germany-E5GGDC.jpg ETA: Dun watn a tiem owt. 
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ND, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2017 10:02:14 AM EDT
[#45]
Oh my, look at the "far-right" rioting in France after the election this morning... 
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Posted: 5/8/2017 10:12:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shade_1313:
Again, the Le Pen voters can come here, we'll ship the Hillary voters over there, and in a couple of decades we'll all sweep the trash out of the failed state and into the sea so that our worthwhile French friends can rebuild their nation without interference. ETA: Dun watn a tiem owt. http://i.imgur.com/h6irN5O.jpg 
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Posted: 5/8/2017 10:12:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Enzo300]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
https://i.redd.it/pl0xccp94awy.jpg Don't worry honey, mommy and daddy love each other very much.
Anyone want to fess up? 
 Lotto Winner buys "Hookers and Cocaine" on Fox 5 |
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Posted: 5/8/2017 10:23:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Feels Good Man!
Tastes Good Man! 
Looks Good Man! 
LOL! 
Random Dank
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ND, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2017 10:33:32 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 5/8/2017 11:17:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sylvan:
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! I firmly believe that they are not the product of idealism, but rather things that one has to have in order to be productive to the full extent of human potential. A human imperative, just as important a shelter, air, water, food, and clothing. The search for liberty and Justice transcends the ideologies of a thousand dead civilizations whose people attempted to attain them from the darkness of the idealism of idolation. And I would point to the last 250 years of the American experience, and the products of liberty and justice for all, to prove it. |
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