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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:00:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guy that didn't have renter's insurance and therefore they offered nothing? |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:04:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is the guy out $400k if the city paid his deductible and temp housing and insurance paid the rest???? Was he under insured or something? HO-3 policy generally excludes: Governmental action: such as the destruction, confiscation or seizure of covered property by any governmental or public authority. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:05:56 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is the opinion from the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals if anyone wants to read it (it's relatively short). The judges: Monroe G. McKay (appointed by Jimmy Carter) Jerome Holmes (appointed by George W. Bush) Nancy Moritz (appointed by Barack H. Obama) Mortiz wrote the opinion. Interestingly, they note that "Nevertheless, despite the considerable appeal of this position as a matter of policy" in reference to the arguments for liability. I would love to see SCOTUS take this. According to the decision, "Further, although the Supreme Court has never expressly invoked this distinction in a case alleging a physical taking, it has implicitly indicated the distinction applies in this context" The case cited as implicit has little to do with this situation on its face. Bennis, 516 U.S. at 44344, 45354 (rejecting plaintiff's Takings Clause claim where state court ordered vehicle "forfeited as a public nuisance" without requiring state to compensate plaintiff, who shared ownership of vehicle with her husband. It seems it's time to clear this up. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:10:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit, the city/state pays for everything not the police. By this theory, a police officer would never risk damaging a police vehicle or other equipment, which is overtly not how it works. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:11:18 AM EDT
[#5]
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It sucks that we have to deal with the costs from these shitbags. They should be forced to work in labor camps until full restitution is made to their victims. Should have had insurance. The police destroyed property to protect life. I am ok with that choice. You get out when you've earned and paid back whatever the amount levied. Want to sit on your ass - enjoy the life sentence. Want to get out? Become productive, get working and behave so that you can move up the ranks of the prison work system. Restitution for the public and enablement of those that can reform to do so. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:11:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has there ever been a lawsuit where property damage resulting from police doing their job was awarded? Maybe that is more the norm and this the exception. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:14:04 AM EDT
[#7]
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Well, according to other LEOs/ former LEOs it isn't necessary to sue in places they've served in. Maybe that is more the norm and this the exception. I think even my homeowners insurance won't cover damages like this? People have always been between a rock and a hard place on stuff like this unless things have changed in recent years. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:16:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I guess the city should make a law requiring all renters to have insurance? That what you’re saying? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The guy that didn't have renter's insurance and therefore they offered nothing? 
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:21:17 AM EDT
[#9]
The court acknowledged that this may seem “unfair,” but when police have to protect the public, they can’t be “burdened with the condition” that they compensate whoever is damaged by their actions along the way.
You can bet if that was city hall they would have been extra careful. Or a fire station. Or a power station. Or the mayor's office. It's all fun and games when it doesn't belong to you or your employer. You can bet that whatever happens to the homeowners property never even crossed the police's mind. They were just happy they could finally use their shiny new wrecking vehicles. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:22:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. I didn't imply anything like that. How in the world did you come to that ridiculous conclusion? |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:23:25 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not a moral hazard at all. It makes zero difference to me in handling a call whether the city is or is not on the hook for damages. If I have to break shit it is a simple question of is there an exigent situation in progress meriting breaking someones shit or not. Believe it or not we don't randomly kick doors down or break windows if it can be avoided, it's a pain in the ass, it bought you a police report if you weren't already writing one, and you have to sit and wait for the fire department to come secure it once everything is done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting moral hazard problem. On one hand, if the police are free to destroy property in the course of doing their job with no responsibility, they will destroy property more willingly and carelessly than if there was a consequence. On the other hand, if the police are looking at a bill every time they have to break something to get the job done, they will inevitably look the other way with greater frequency at the expense of the safety of the public. If I have to break shit it is a simple question of is there an exigent situation in progress meriting breaking someones shit or not. Believe it or not we don't randomly kick doors down or break windows if it can be avoided, it's a pain in the ass, it bought you a police report if you weren't already writing one, and you have to sit and wait for the fire department to come secure it once everything is done. The funny part is that I had upgraded the door jamb so when they kicked it in, all they did was bounce off and hit the ground. They then kicked a panel in and after they realized they couldn't get in that way, asked the tenant to open the door. The moral...... some people are axxes. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:28:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The court acknowledged that this may seem “unfair,” but when police have to protect the public, they can’t be “burdened with the condition” that they compensate whoever is damaged by their actions along the way. You can bet if that was city hall they would have been extra careful. Or a fire station. Or a power station. Or the mayor's office. It's all fun and games when it doesn't belong to you or your employer. You can bet that whatever happens to the homeowners property never even crossed the police's mind. They were just happy they could finally use their shiny new wrecking vehicles. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:29:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It appears as if the guy had renters insurance this would be a non issue? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No. I didn't imply anything like that. How in the world did you come to that ridiculous conclusion? But if in your mind you immediately hear a thing then think "There should be a law..." that's on you. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:30:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It wouldn't be a non-issue still since the party harmed would just be transferred to the insurance company. But if in your mind you immediately hear a thing then think "There should be a law..." that's on you. In essence, we are fucked is how I always thought it was/is. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:38:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. I didn't imply anything like that. How in the world did you come to that ridiculous conclusion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy that didn't have renter's insurance and therefore they offered nothing? |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:41:59 AM EDT
[#16]
I am trying to remember what happened to property owners in the Detroit Riots 50+ years ago...….I just don't remember if people got reimbursed by their insurance companies.
In the back of my mind I am somewhat "remembering" they were just plain fucked if it was police damage. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 9:55:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, its called reality. The city made an offer. The homeowner refused it. The homeowner filed a lawsuit that didn't fit per 3 judges. The homeowner lost the lawsuit. https://nypost.com/2019/10/30/heroin-addict-drags-nypd-cop-with-his-car-and-wins-11-million-in-court/ "A heroin addict with nearly 20 arrests to his name allegedly dragged a cop along a busy Bronx street while fleeing a traffic stop, forcing another lawman to shoot him and a jury just handed him an $11 million payday, The Post has learned. Raoul Lopez took the city to court over the harrowing 2006 run-in that left him partially paralyzed on his right side, and was awarded the eight-figure sum by a Bronx jury Tuesday. Lopez, 27 when the encounter happened, was in the midst of "a two-week-long bender" and had just scored his latest fix on Feb. 1, 2006, when he rolled through a stop sign at East 169th Street and Grand Concourse, a city lawyer wrote in papers filed in the Bronx Supreme Court case. Sgt. Philippe Blanchard and Officer Zinos Konstantinides pulled Lopez's Honda to a stop shortly before noon and ordered him to kill the engine, but he refused to comply, according to the filings. Instead, when Konstantinides reached inside the car to make a grab at the keys, Lopez hit the gas, dragging the cop into traffic along bustling Grand Concourse, the documents said. Fearing "that his partner would be maimed or killed if he did not take immediate, forceful action," Blanchard fired a single shot, striking Lopez in the neck, the city wrote in the papers." Is this also an Oh well they lost the lawsuit so it's all ok? |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 10:12:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It wouldn't be a non-issue still since the party harmed would just be transferred to the insurance company. But if in your mind you immediately hear a thing then think "There should be a law..." that's on you. The city offered what they felt was fair. The guy refused and it went to court. Court ruled how they did. What else do you guys want? Geeeesh |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 10:18:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn’t matter to me if there’s a law or not. Just trying to think of ways to help GD not complain. The city offered what they felt was fair. The guy refused and it went to court. Court ruled how they did. What else do you guys want? Geeeesh Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It wouldn't be a non-issue still since the party harmed would just be transferred to the insurance company. But if in your mind you immediately hear a thing then think "There should be a law..." that's on you. The city offered what they felt was fair. The guy refused and it went to court. Court ruled how they did. What else do you guys want? Geeeesh 
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Posted: 10/31/2019 10:22:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same guy that thinks he's owed something for the phone books being left at his door doesn't think a person is owed for having their house and contents destroyed. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 10:28:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet police have no legal duty to protect the public according to the Supreme Court. I have come to the conclusion that police are the reason many people do not like the police. Sell individual cigs in New York you can get killed by cops, someone holds up in your house and the police blow up your house and are not liable for damages. At this point it seems that police are more about generating funds for the state vs protecting the citizens. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 10:30:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't be burdened with accountability or responsibility for their actions. Things need to change. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 10:31:44 AM EDT
[#23]
I'm willing to bet the insurance company subrogates and wins.
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Posted: 10/31/2019 11:56:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the same guy had run into an abortion clinic, church, empty elementary school,the mayor's house or Chuck Schumer's house would the police have turned it into a Band of Brother's set? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: He fled. He started the pursuit by fleeing. All he had to do was stop and take responsibility for his actions. So he was armed. Got it. If he was going to surrender he would have done it. This all stems from his poor decisions and he should be held liable. Unless the homeowner can find something the police did that was illegal then he took a lawsuit gamble and lost. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 11:58:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Not a 5th Amendment issue, but one of trespass and conversion.
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Posted: 10/31/2019 12:03:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are your thoughts on this https://nypost.com/2019/10/30/heroin-addict-drags-nypd-cop-with-his-car-and-wins-11-million-in-court/ "A heroin addict with nearly 20 arrests to his name allegedly dragged a cop along a busy Bronx street while fleeing a traffic stop, forcing another lawman to shoot him and a jury just handed him an $11 million payday, The Post has learned. Raoul Lopez took the city to court over the harrowing 2006 run-in that left him partially paralyzed on his right side, and was awarded the eight-figure sum by a Bronx jury Tuesday. Lopez, 27 when the encounter happened, was in the midst of "a two-week-long bender" and had just scored his latest fix on Feb. 1, 2006, when he rolled through a stop sign at East 169th Street and Grand Concourse, a city lawyer wrote in papers filed in the Bronx Supreme Court case. Sgt. Philippe Blanchard and Officer Zinos Konstantinides pulled Lopez's Honda to a stop shortly before noon and ordered him to kill the engine, but he refused to comply, according to the filings. Instead, when Konstantinides reached inside the car to make a grab at the keys, Lopez hit the gas, dragging the cop into traffic along bustling Grand Concourse, the documents said. Fearing "that his partner would be maimed or killed if he did not take immediate, forceful action," Blanchard fired a single shot, striking Lopez in the neck, the city wrote in the papers." Is this also an Oh well they lost the lawsuit so it's all ok? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No, its called reality. The city made an offer. The homeowner refused it. The homeowner filed a lawsuit that didn't fit per 3 judges. The homeowner lost the lawsuit. https://nypost.com/2019/10/30/heroin-addict-drags-nypd-cop-with-his-car-and-wins-11-million-in-court/ "A heroin addict with nearly 20 arrests to his name allegedly dragged a cop along a busy Bronx street while fleeing a traffic stop, forcing another lawman to shoot him and a jury just handed him an $11 million payday, The Post has learned. Raoul Lopez took the city to court over the harrowing 2006 run-in that left him partially paralyzed on his right side, and was awarded the eight-figure sum by a Bronx jury Tuesday. Lopez, 27 when the encounter happened, was in the midst of "a two-week-long bender" and had just scored his latest fix on Feb. 1, 2006, when he rolled through a stop sign at East 169th Street and Grand Concourse, a city lawyer wrote in papers filed in the Bronx Supreme Court case. Sgt. Philippe Blanchard and Officer Zinos Konstantinides pulled Lopez's Honda to a stop shortly before noon and ordered him to kill the engine, but he refused to comply, according to the filings. Instead, when Konstantinides reached inside the car to make a grab at the keys, Lopez hit the gas, dragging the cop into traffic along bustling Grand Concourse, the documents said. Fearing "that his partner would be maimed or killed if he did not take immediate, forceful action," Blanchard fired a single shot, striking Lopez in the neck, the city wrote in the papers." Is this also an Oh well they lost the lawsuit so it's all ok? BTW, I wouldn't reach into the car. I don't want to get dragged. 
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Posted: 10/31/2019 12:27:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prison sentences shouldn't be set in months/years, but in dollars. You get out when you've earned and paid back whatever the amount levied. Want to sit on your ass - enjoy the life sentence. Want to get out? Become productive, get working and behave so that you can move up the ranks of the prison work system. Restitution for the public and enablement of those that can reform to do so. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 1:58:01 PM EDT
[#28]
As others pointed out, it's a dupe...
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/police-blew-up-an-innocent-mans-house-in-search-of-an-armed-shoplifter-too-bad-court-rules/5-2267618/?page=2 
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:04:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote History |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:07:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, that's this thread, isn't it? 
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:13:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, that's this thread, isn't it? 
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:18:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's also referencing the thread we are in as the original. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:22:39 PM EDT
[#33]
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Cause he's rogueboss and everything he posts is like that. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:26:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The movie Law Abiding Citizen comes to mind. With a shitty ending. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:31:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Can't be burdened by personal or department financial consequences for their actions
Can't be burdened by personal or department criminal consequences for their actions Can't be burdened by personal or department restrictions on equipment like the rest of us are Can't be held accountable for failure of their actions to keep the peace or citizens safe No legal duty to act in the first place "WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IT IS, YA DO HERE?!" At some point beat officers had better start showing up to protest these kinds of outrages and decisions by the leadership class, otherwise what else can we do but lump those guys & all their goons together? Between gun owners fed up with gun laws, poors fed up with drug laws, and everyone fed up with traffic laws, this idiotic recent trend of disbanding departments & selectively enforcing laws will only increase. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:35:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't be burdened by personal or department financial consequences for their actions Can't be burdened by personal or department criminal consequences for their actions Can't be burdened by personal or department restrictions on equipment like the rest of us are Can't be held accountable for failure of their actions to keep the peace or citizens safe No legal duty to act in the first place "WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IT IS, YA DO HERE?!" At some point beat officers had better start showing up to protest these kinds of outrages and decisions by the leadership class, otherwise what else can we do but lump those guys & all their goons together? Between gun owners fed up with gun laws, poors fed up with drug laws, and everyone fed up with traffic laws, this idiotic recent trend of disbanding departments & selectively enforcing laws will only increase. 
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:38:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Who paid for the building Christopher Dorner was in when they Waco'd him?
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:50:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who paid for the building Christopher Dorner was in when they Waco'd him? |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 2:51:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Interesting case, reminds me of the Philadephia "The City that Bombed Itself" case back in the mid-80's. Philly police dropped 2 IED's from a helicopter onto a Black Muslim Separatist group called MOVE during a standoff, multiple deaths and 60+ homes burned IIRC. Homes worth squat before the fire ended up costing the city in the 10's of millions of dollars and are still unlivable to this day. Who was served, certainly not the homeowners or taxpayers.
Hking |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 3:02:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting case, reminds me of the Philadephia "The City that Bombed Itself" case back in the mid-80's. Philly police dropped 2 IED's from a helicopter onto a Black Muslim Separatist group called MOVE during a standoff, multiple deaths and 60+ homes burned IIRC. Homes worth squat before the fire ended up costing the city in the 10's of millions of dollars and are still unlivable to this day. Who was served, certainly not the homeowners or taxpayers. Hking This poor sap doesn't get shit because his property was incidental and the state can't be burdened.  If only the homeowner had been the suspect. He'd have more standing.What a fucking joke. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 3:04:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was the proximate cause of his own injury. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who paid for the building Christopher Dorner was in when they Waco'd him? |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 3:11:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Kuraki, I had forgotten they were all named "Africa." LOL
This homeowner would have been better served as a hostage. Hking |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 4:52:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think he owned the cabin he was "accidentally" burned out of. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 6:15:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why should a firefighter have to pay out of his/her pension fund so something an officer 100 miles away does? 
As it stands right now, they call each other "brother" and stand by while some of their "brothers" endanger the innocent public while stealing and wasting private resources. |
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Posted: 10/31/2019 7:44:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More like cause he's hardcore trolling... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cause he's rogueboss and everything he posts is like that. |
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Posted: 11/1/2019 3:19:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prison sentences shouldn't be set in months/years, but in dollars. You get out when you've earned and paid back whatever the amount levied. Want to sit on your ass - enjoy the life sentence. Want to get out? Become productive, get working and behave so that you can move up the ranks of the prison work system. Restitution for the public and enablement of those that can reform to do so. |
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Posted: 11/1/2019 1:45:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Can't be burdened by personal or department financial consequences for their actions Can't be burdened by personal or department criminal consequences for their actions Can't be burdened by personal or department restrictions on equipment like the rest of us are Can't be held accountable for failure of their actions to keep the peace or citizens safe No legal duty to act in the first place "WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IT IS, YA DO HERE?!" At some point beat officers had better start showing up to protest these kinds of outrages and decisions by the leadership class, otherwise what else can we do but lump those guys & all their goons together? Between gun owners fed up with gun laws, poors fed up with drug laws, and everyone fed up with traffic laws, this idiotic recent trend of disbanding departments & selectively enforcing laws will only increase.
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