This pistol refuses to run on PMC Bronze 230 grain FMJ, P45HST2 or RA45B; it is an equal opportunity choker that can't seem to run more than a single mag or rarely  two, without a malfunction of one sort or another with either the factory magazines or the 2 Wilson 47Ds I bought.

I received a pre-paid Fedex label from Smith & Wesson, so it's going back on their dime tomorrow; over 450 rounds of ammunition through it and instead of seeing any improvement, it has actually gotten worse.













And so on, and so on, and so forth.................

Unacceptable.  

I can imagine how disappointed you are but S&W has good CS and should take good care of you.

Keep us updated.

Well, I'm certainly going to find out how good Smith and Wesson's customer service is.

I included a detailed letter outlining the problems the gun has been experiencing, along with quite a few pictures of the various sorts of malfunctions it is constantly prone to.

I'll let you know how I made out when the gun gets back to me with an honest, unbiased,  appraisal of how this matter was handled.

I sure hope that Smith and Wesson's customer service is better than it's initial quality control; this dog should have never escaped from their factory.

I just bought an M&P .40c today and after getting home I noticed that both the magazines that came with it were the flush mounted ones. It is supposed to come with 1 magazine that has the pinkie extension and one without. I can only assume that a shop employee decided to swap a flush mounted magazine for my pinkie extended magazine and assumed that it would all even out in the end.  Anyways, I just got off the phone with S&W customer service, explained what happened, they agreed with me and asked for my name and address so they could send me out two new pinkie extension mag bases. That has also been the reminiscent experience in the past with S&W as well as, Glock and Springfield. All three bend over backwards to satisfy their customers. Not to worry OP, you will be happy in the end.

That a good looking gun. I'm sure SW will take care of you

That sucks. That is one nice looking pistol too.

External extractor.

My original SW1911 is amongst the most reliable firearms I've ever had experience with.



 

JM...

I would talk to your shop if i were you.

To the OP, sorry to hear about your troubles, there's been alot of interest in these E-series guns and i truly hope you have a fluke.  Keep us updated.

Hope they can get it running as good as the pistol looks.

Thanks; me too.

Because right now; it's a paperweight.

It's  all packed up and sitting by the door waiting for Fedex to come and pick it up.

You need to find some old Colt mags with USGI feed lips. It looks like the Smith mags have Wadcutter style feed lips.

Read here...

Link 1

Link 2

I think the USGI mags will solve your problem...

That is, if Smith can't get it running...

It's really odd that the Wilson mags didn't work either. They're usually spot on.

Well the Fedex guy just came to my door and took it away.

I hope I get it back from Smith & Wesson soon and when I do, it's running like it should.

It's out of your hands now, so try not to worry about it.

If it were an uglyass gun it'd be easier to deal with it having problems, but that gun is gorgeous, man.     I'm reminded of a certain Kimber CDP that I bought new a few years back. Sexy as hell but couldn't handle a single magazine without screwing up.

Good luck with it.

Damn, that is a fine looking version of the 1911!

Too bad it's not behaving for you...

I received a letter from Smith&Wesson with a work order number on it and they said I should be receiving my gun back in 2-3 weeks.

It's gonna' be a long 2-3 weeks, but I suppose I'm about to find out if S&W customer service is actually as good as it's rumored to be.

I really hope you have better results with them than I did.

Sorry to hear that, always frustrating when this happens.

Well; in spite of being told that I would have my gun back 2-3 weeks from May 19th, i just received an e-mail from S&W saying they shipped the gun back to me on the 23rd and after checking the tracking number with Fedex; my gun should be back in my hands tomorrow, the 25th which is only 4 days from the date of the original letter.

12 days door to door is pretty damn quick.

Now if only my new railed E Series 1911 will run as well it should; apparently, I'm gonna find that out real soon.

Keep us updated! That gun you have there is an awesome looking 1911.

I am rivetted to this thread. Pleeeeeease let us know as soon as you get to the range and run some ammo through that sexy thing.

I have my fingers and toes crossed for you, my friend.

+1

I'm hoping it runs like a fine Swiss timepiece for you America.  

Looking forward to a range report.  Keep us updated.

Tagging this for results of S&W service.

I hope it runs like the fine machine it should be.

I admit these S&W 1911s have caught my eye, precisely because of the external extractor.

There are far too many excellent pistols that use them for it to be a wrong headed idea.

+Another 1 too.  Been following this from the start OP and look forward to your follow up report.

Well;  after waiting only a total of 12 days door to door, I received my stainless, E Series tac railed 1911 back from Smith&Wesson customer service.

The work order sent back in the box  indicates the following work was performed:

"Adjust slide to barrel fit" and "barrel modifications".

Additionally, they replaced the mainspring housing at my request because it was improperly finished and was showing rust.

I also believe they may have replaced the extractor as well but I am not 100% certain of that although it looks to me that they did.

Most importantly; it's apparent that the pistol was test fired after the work was performed so I am hopeful that all of the many issues that plagued this pistol have been resolved.

If all goes well, I plan to take my pistol to the range tomorrow and shoot the snot out of it to see if it runs as well as it ought to run.

If it does, I'll be a well satisfied Smith and Wesson customer.

Thanks for the kind words and good wishes guys, I'll be posting an unbiased range report regardless of the outcome.

why wait? open the door and pop off a mag and see if it works. Just kidding. Hope that thing works now.

It sounds like they gave your pistol a good look over, replaced the obvious culprits, even replaced a somewhat questionable extractor possibly just to be sure. I'll bet you have nothing but good times tomorrow shooting your new 1911 and I'm sure you will let us know either way.

I have my fingers crossed for you. I've been there before. When you drop close to a grand on a gun, you expect certain things from it. I really hope it works like it ought to.

And yes, the powder residue would be seen as a positive sign in my eyes, too.

I have the black one but haven't shot it yet.  Hoping mine doesn't do the same thing.  My S&W1911PD was flawless before trading it.

Update??????????????????

I'm interested too for details.

Just picked one up today. I have small hands, and I absolute love the feel of this thing.

OP, I'd like to hear a happy ending to your ordeal.

I should be heading to the range tomorrow after work.

*taps foot impatiently*

I had the opportunity to examine and shoot my Smith and Wesson E Series 1911 Tactical Rail pistol SKU #408411 after it was returned to me from S&W customer service.

To recap the original problems I encountered;

The pistol absolutely refused to run on PMC Bronze 230 grain FMJ, 230 grain Federal P45HST2 or 230 grain Winchester RA45B (all standard pressure loadings) ; it was an equal opportunity choker with both hardball and hollow point duty ammunition that couldn't seem to run more than a single magazine or rarely two, without a malfunction of one sort or another with either the two factory magazines supplied with the pistol or the 2 Wilson 47Ds I bought.

Pictures indicative  of the sorts of malfunctions the pistol was constantly prone to are shown in the original post.

In addition, the mainspring housing was improperly finished and was exhibiting rust and I requested that it be either refinished or replaced.

After receiving a prepaid shipping label from Smith and Wesson customer service, I had FedEx pick up the pistol from my home and after a total of only 12 days door to door; I received my E Series pistol back from Smith and Wesson.

The work order sent back along with the pistol indicated only the following work had been performed:

"Adjust slide to BBL fit"

"Barrel modifications"

Here are some pictures of areas in which work was obviously done to the pistol and what they look like now.

In an earlier post I had made right after I had purchased the pistol before I even had the opportunity to fire it for the first time; I noted that there wasn't even a single tool mark either on the exterior or interior of the gun.

As you can see; that is no longer the case.














Although not indicated on the work order; this improperly finished mainspring housing was either refinished or replaced.

This picture is of the original, improperly finished and rusting mainspring housing.



Additionally; work was done to the extractor and it was either replaced and re-pinned, or only re-pinned , but the extractor looks to me like it was changed out.

This picture below was taken after I fired and cleaned the pistol after receiving it back from Smith and Wesson customer service.

Note the position of the solid pin that holds the extractor in place; it is flush with the slide, which is the same position the extractor pin was in when I sent the pistol back to Smith and Wesson.

When the pistol was returned however;  that solid extractor pin was NO LONGER FLUSH with the slide.

The repair shop raised the pin so that it extended at least 1/16" above being flush with the slide.

The solid extractor pin has obviously dropped down into the slide and although if it remains flush it wont cause any issues, if it drops much further down, on recoil;  it will cause the slide to be locked catastrophically in place to the frame.



It is an issue that I believe may cause problems in the future, perhaps very big problems and I'm looking for suggestions.






Now to the range report:

I only had the opportunity to fire 150 rounds of 230 grain PMC Bronze hardball range crap and a four 8 round magazines of 230 grain RA 45B duty ammunition through the pistol.

The magazines I used were the 2 ACT factory magazines and 2 Wilson 47Ds.

Before the pistol was returned to Smith and Wesson for service; it was a total jammomatic and would choke relentlessly on the 230 grain PMC Bronze hardball, hardly making it through a single magazine if even that; after Smith and Wesson worked on the pistol, they flowed though it like shit though a goose.

Absolutely no problems with the gun while shooting the PMC Bronze; no matter how fast I shot or how loosely I held the pistol it spit out round after round with what I believe to be excellent accuracy.

The bad part of the story is that my Railed E Series 1911 still continues to refuse to run on the Winchester RA45B duty ammunition.

It simply cannot progress though a single magazine of RA45B without experiencing malfunctions similar to those that occurred before I sent the pistol back.

Unfortunately; I forgot to throw a box of Federal P45HST2 into my range bag so I didn't get to test that duty ammunition on that trip but I'll be back at the range either Tuesday or Wednesday to try that ammunition in the pistol.



The bottom line as things stand right now is that the pistol is now an excellent shooter with the PMC Bronze ball ammunition I put through it, but it still absolutely refuses to run on the Winchester RA45B duty loading.

I will try the HST early in the week and see how it goes and if it runs properly well I'll call it a day (except for the solid extractor pin issue which I believe is a very important one) however; if it doesn't run with 230 grain duty ammo I  consider the gun worthless to me because I bought the railed E Series 191; like I buy all of my handguns,  not as range toys, but primarily as self defense weapons.

In particular; I was going to mount a light on the pistol and use it for my nightstand gun.

I'm looking for your comments guys as well as your advice, thanks in advance.






BTW; I'd have posted sooner, but the internet and phone service in my neighborhood has been down on and off for the last few days and I didn't want to begin posting all of this only to have it lost when the service went down.

Ummmm......???????????????

You caught me in the middle of composing the post; look up and it will make sense now.

Sorry 'bout that, I was too quick on the draw.

I'm no 1911 guru by any stretch, but it is not uncommon for them to only like one or two types of JHP ammo, at least the three that I have owned off and on over time were that way. (Only have one now a days).

I sent my current Springfield GI back because it would not work at all with JHPs.  After extractor replacement, ramp and throating work, and lowering and flaring the ejection port, it now will feed/extract/eject Golden Sabers reliably. (Ball too of course).

As my 1911 was not intended as my sole home defense weapon, I am not upset about it.  

The extractor pin is troubling.  You would think it should have a light duty thread locking compound on part of it to keep it in place or have a head on it like a nail to keep it from dropping down too far.

I'd say try some more JHP ammo and see how it goes.  If the pin drops and locks up the pistol, then S&W owes you a new gun, IMHO.

Hope you can get it sorted to your satisfaction.  It's such a good looking pistol.

Advice from"just you" carries a lot of weight with me, do you think I should throw a few rounds of HST through it, or should I contact Smith and Wesson immediately for another FedEx return shipping label?

I've been leaning towards sending it back myself.

In your opinion; all other issues aside; including the solid extractor pin issue which is IMO a BIG one, is the fact that the pistol won't shoot RA 45B enough reason to send it back if it will handle the HST properly?

BTW, when I originally sent the gun back to the factory I included a detailed 2 page letter and plenty of pictures.

I didn't know I could send them a link to a thread that is good to know.

+1.  I have a few 1911's that will feed anything I throw at them, but I have more that won't.  Mine all serve an intended purpose and the one chosen for the nightstand will no longer serve it's intended duty if it ceases to feed my load of choice.  With that, you can either search for a personal defense load that it will feed reliably, without fail, or send it back to S&W on just that factor alone and let them address your other concerns in the process.

sell it and get a glock 21



 no really...

Yep it should run on ANY FACTORY ammo.  My S&W 1911PD will run on 250 Grn Full Wad Cutters.  Yours should at least feed any HP design.

+1

I think Steve nailed it.  

Try some HST and then send it back to S&W.  I'm very sorry to read about your problems with this great looking 1911.

I'd be both heartsick and angry if I were in your position.  I think I'd want them to exchange my pistol for a brand new one that works properly.

Good luck.     Please keep us updated.

I'm disappointed to hear they didn't address the defense ammo problem; but obviously they did something to get it running with hardball.

I'd be interested to see a photo of the frame feed ramp with the barrel installed and pressed as far back in the frame as it will go.  

If you decide to send it back, I'd include a box of your ammo to allow them to reproduce the problem.

Yep. It took my S&W 1911 three trips back to work the bugs out, but now it is RIGHT and I never had to spend a dime.

I have a S&W 1911SC and have never had a problem with any feeding of any ammo, including three types of duty ammo and FMJ. I would call S&W and send it back to get the kinks out of it. Sorry to hear about your problems

Your SW 1911 is like a beautiful woman. It good to look at but high maintenance.

I am not a big 1911 guy, but I love the look of that gun. Best of luck to you. I cannot offer you any technical advice...I would talking out of my ass when it comes to 1911's.

AF,  the solid extractor pin you speak of.... does it have threads or not? I doubt it does but thought I would ask anyway. Is it just a strait punch pin or is it a tapered pin? If it is a tapered pin, then I wouldn't worry about it going down inside the slide of the gun anymore. However, if it is a strait pin, I might worry a little more and be concerned as you are currently. In my experience of working on my owns and friends pistols and AR's, is that roll pins do a better job of staying put in certain applications than strait pins do because roll pins are made slightly larger than the diameter of the hole they are going into. Strait pins are made slightly larger than the hole they are going into as well but roll pins seem to be so just a little larger even. Therefore they compress a little and fit in said hole very snuggly. Might I suggest you find a proper roll pin for this extractor application...... if for just the fact that it makes you sleep better, it will be worth it. Also, I and I'm sure others would like to see pictures of the barrel throat and the frame feed ramp. A couple of pictures with them together and the slide locked back and maybe a couple pictures of them seperate. Your pistol should feed almost all quality manufactured HP's whether its GDHP, Ranger T's, HST's, Cor-bons, etc, etc, and if it doesn't then it is kind of worthless for self defense as we all know ball ammo is not what works best. I say try your other brand of self defense ammo that you left out of your range bag and see if it shoots reliably. If not then the gun needs to go back to S&W detailing that the gun is to be used for carry and that it needs the capability to feed all factory HP's.

Man, it sucks that gun doesn't run well.  It sure is pretty.  I hope S&W gets you lined out.