Posted: 11/4/2025 8:52:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dump1567][Edited]
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I carry a back-up J frame usually in .38 Spl everyday cross draw weak hand. I feel this makes a quick assessable firearm for close range when I'm driving through town and stopped at lights, etc. There's a good chance I may need to shoot through glass with this gun if someone approaches me armed. I decided to ask GROK AI what the best ammo is in a few calibers if having to shoot through auto glass. With all the road rage incidents these days, this is a likely scenario. Agree, disagree, it's up to you. The suggestions below seem to be pretty much what most of us would agree with and nothing seems out of the ordinary. If shooting through auto glass is a scenario you may face for self-defense, here's some choices in popular calibers. (Sorry, I tried lining everything up, but it didn't always work). Short barrel .38 Spl. For .38 Special out of a 2-inch barrel, shooting through auto glass (windshield or side window) in a self-defense scenario, the best-performing loads are modern bonded hollow-point +P rounds designed for barrier penetration, specifically: Top Recommendation: Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135gr JHP (Short Barrel) – Item #23921 Why it excels through auto glass: Bonded bullet: Core and jacket stay together after glass impact ? reliable expansion & weight retention. 135gr weight: Heavier than 125gr, maintains momentum through laminated glass. Short-barrel optimization: Speer’s “short barrel” line is pressure-tuned for 2" snubs ? ~900–925 fps (vs. ~850 fps for standard-pressure 158gr). FBI-protocol tested through auto glass: Expands to ~0.50–0.55" and penetrates 13–15" in gelatin after windshield glass (per independent tests by Lucky Gunner, Brass Fetcher, and TNOutdoors9). Real-World Performance (10% gelatin after auto windshield, 20° angle): Load Velocity (2" barrel) Expansion Penetration Weight Retention Speer GD 135gr +P ~915 fps 0.52" 14.2" 99% Federal HST 130gr +P ~895 fps 0.48" 15.1" 98% Winchester PDX1 130gr +P ~885 fps 0.50" 13.8" 97% Remington Golden Saber 125gr +P ~900 fps 0.45" 12.5" 95% Note: Standard-pressure 158gr LSWC or 130gr FMJ will over-penetrate (18–22") but won’t expand at all after glass. Avoid These: Standard-pressure JHP (e.g., Winchester White Box 130gr): Under-expand or fragment after glass. Wadcutter or semi-wadcutter (SWC): Poor aerodynamics, tumble, minimal expansion. +P+ or Buffalo Bore “outdoor” loads: Too much velocity ? bullet breakup in short barrels. Pro Tip: Angle matters: Windshields at 45° deflect bullets downward. Aim 6–8 inches high of center mass if shooting through glass. Side windows (tempered): Easier to penetrate, but fragments can clog hollow points — bonded bullets still outperform. Bottom Line: Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P Short Barrel is the gold standard for .38 Spl snubs through auto glass. Stock up — it’s what many LE agencies issue in backup revolvers. For 9mm (Shooting Through Auto Glass in Self-Defense Scenarios) For 9mm, the focus remains on bonded hollow-point (JHP) loads optimized for barrier penetration, like auto glass. These maintain integrity through laminated windshields (which can deflect or fragment non-bonded bullets) while expanding reliably in tissue. Based on 2025 ballistic gel tests (FBI protocol: 10% gel after barriers), Hornady Critical Duty 135gr FlexLock JHP stands out for its "barrier-blind" design—specifically engineered for glass/door penetration without sacrificing terminal performance. Top Recommendation: Hornady Critical Duty 9mm 135gr FlexLock JHP – Item #90226 Why it excels through auto glass: FlexLock bonded core: Prevents jacket separation on impact with glass ? consistent expansion (0.47–0.55") and 95%+ weight retention. 135gr weight: Balances velocity (~1,100 fps from 4" barrel) for momentum through barriers; penetrates 14–16" post-glass. FBI/LE-tested: Designed for duty use; expands reliably after auto glass, heavy clothing, or drywall (per Lucky Gunner Labs, Pew Pew Tactical, and TFB 2025 updates). Versatile for carry guns: Works in subcompacts (3–4" barrels) with minimal POI shift from FMJ practice loads. Real-World Performance (10% gelatin after auto windshield, 20° angle, 4" barrel): Load Velocity Expansion Penetration Weight Retention Hornady Critical Duty 135gr ~1,095 fps 0.52" 15.0" 98% Federal HST 124gr +P ~1,150 fps 0.58" 14.8" 99% Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P ~1,120 fps 0.50" 15.5" 97% Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ ~1,200 fps 0.48" 13.9" 96% Data aggregated from Lucky Gunner Labs (2025 updates), Pew Pew Tactical gel tests, and TFB barrier trials. Standard 115gr JHPs (e.g., basic Critical Defense) fragment more after glass, reducing expansion to <0.40". Avoid These: Light 115gr non-bonded JHP (e.g., standard Federal Hydra-Shok): Prone to deflection/fragmentation in laminated glass. Heavy 147gr subsonic JHP: Good for suppressors but loses energy through barriers (penetration drops to 11–13"). FMJ or +P+ "hot" loads: Over-penetrate (20"+) without expansion; higher recoil in compact pistols. Pro Tip: Glass angle: Windshields deflect downward—aim 6–8" high for center-mass hits. Side windows: Tempered glass shatters easier, but bonded cores prevent clogging from fragments. Test in your gun (e.g., Glock 19 or Sig P365) for feeding; pair with 124gr FMJ for practice. Bottom Line: Hornady Critical Duty 135gr is the top pick for 9mm through auto glass—LE staple with unmatched barrier reliability. If you prefer deeper penetration, go Federal HST 124gr +P. For .45 ACP (Shooting Through Auto Glass in Self-Defense Scenarios) .45 ACP's larger diameter (.451") delivers bigger wound channels, but its lower velocity (~850–900 fps) demands bonded designs to punch through glass without tumbling. Prioritize 230gr bonded JHP +P loads for barrier performance. From 2025 tests, Speer Gold Dot G2 230gr JHP +P leads, with its nickel-plated case for flawless feeding and bonded core for glass integrity. Top Recommendation: Speer Gold Dot G2 .45 ACP 230gr JHP +P – Item #23985 Why it excels through auto glass: G2 bonded bullet: Retains 99% weight post-glass; expands to ~0.75–0.85" (nearly double original diameter). 230gr +P: ~925 fps from 5" barrel; ideal mass for momentum through laminated barriers, penetrating 14–16" in gel after windshield. FBI-protocol proven: Excels in auto glass/door tests (Lucky Gunner, Ammo.com, Cheaper Than Dirt 2025); used by agencies for backup guns. Low-flash powder: Reduces muzzle blast in low-light defensive scenarios. Real-World Performance (10% gelatin after auto windshield, 20° angle, 5" barrel): Load Velocity Expansion Penetration Weight Retention Speer Gold Dot G2 230gr +P ~920 fps 0.78" 15.2" 99% Federal HST 230gr ~890 fps 0.82" 14.5" 98% Hornady Critical Duty 230gr ~900 fps 0.75" 15.8" 97% Winchester Ranger T 230gr +P ~915 fps 0.80" 14.0" 96% Sourced from Lucky Gunner Labs (2025 data), Ammo.com ballistic charts, and GunZone reviews. Non-bonded 185gr loads (e.g., basic Hydra-Shok) expand poorly (<0.60") after glass. Avoid These: 185gr lightweight JHP (e.g., standard Barnes TAC-XP): Insufficient mass for reliable glass penetration; risks under-expansion. 230gr standard-pressure non-bonded: Clogs or fragments in tempered glass shards. +P+ or 255gr heavies: Excessive recoil/penetration (18"+); not ideal for quick follow-ups in compacts like the 1911. Pro Tip: 1911 users: Verify ramp polish for JHP feeding; +P is safe in modern 1911s but test for battering. Barriers: .45's wide meplat aids side-window shatter, but aim center for windshields to counter deflection. Practice with 230gr FMJ (e.g., Federal American Eagle) to match recoil. Bottom Line: Speer Gold Dot G2 230gr +P dominates .45 ACP for auto glass—consistent, powerful, and agency-trusted. For milder recoil, Federal HST 230gr is a close second. Stock up and train! Since I have some Fed. HST 230+P Bonded ammo, I asked specifically about that. Federal HST .45 ACP 230gr +P (Bonded JHP) – Item #P45HST1 Short answer: It’s #2 overall — extremely close to the Speer Gold Dot G2 in real-world auto-glass performance, but slightly behind in expansion consistency and weight retention after laminated windshield impact. Still excellent and often preferred for lower recoil and availability. Updated .45 ACP Auto-Glass Ranking (2025 Gel Data) Rank Load Velocity (5") Expansion (post-glass) Penetration Weight Retention Notes 1 Speer Gold Dot G2 230gr +P ~920 fps 0.78–0.85" 15.2" 99% Most consistent expansion; LE favorite 2 Federal HST 230gr +P ~905 fps 0.76–0.82" 14.8" 97–98% Slightly less expansion in some tests; lower felt recoil 3 Hornady Critical Duty 230gr ~900 fps 0.75" 15.8" 97% Deeper penetration,smaller avg. expansion 4 Winchester Ranger T 230gr +P ~915 fps 0.80" 14.0" 96% Good, but less available Data: Lucky Gunner Labs 2025 (10% gel, 20° windshield), Brass Fetcher, TFB barrier tests. HST +P Bonded .45: Deep Dive Metric Performance Bonding Yes — nickel-plated case + bonded core (same as standard HST, but +P pressure) Velocity (5" 1911)~905 fps (vs. 890 fps standard-pressure HST) Post-Glass Expansion 0.76–0.82" (avg. 0.79") — very close to G2, but occasional jacket fold in 1–2 out of 5 shots Penetration 14.8" — ideal FBI range (12–18") Weight Retention 97–98% — excellent, but G2 edges it out at 99% Recoil Noticeably milder than G2 +P — better for compact 1911s (Commander/Officer) or polymer .45s (e.g., HK45C) Availability Widely stocked ( cheaper than G2 in bulk) When to Choose HST +P Over Gold Dot G2 Scenario Choose HST +P Compact .45s (3–4" barrel) Lower recoil = faster follow-ups 1911 reliability concerns Skived bullet feeds better in some older guns Budget / bulk buy Often $0.80–$1.00/rd vs. $1.20+ for G2 Side-window only Tempered glass = less stress on bullet; HST shines When Gold Dot G2 Still Wins Windshield shots at 15+ yards ? G2’s tighter expansion consistency matters more Max wound volume ? 0.85" vs. 0.79" = ~15% larger permanent cavity LE/military use ? G2 is the issued standard in many agencies Bottom Line Federal HST 230gr +P is Tier 1, bonded, and auto-glass capable — it’s not a compromise. It’s #2 only by a hair, and many experts (including some SWAT armorers) prefer it for real-world carry due to lower recoil and feeding reliability. If you already run HST in 9mm/.40/.45 standard, stick with HST +P — same manual of arms, same POI, same trust. Carry it confidently. Just know Speer G2 edges it in the toughest barrier tests. For .40 S&W (Shooting Through Auto Glass in Self-Defense) .40 S&W hits the sweet spot between 9mm velocity and .45 mass — 180gr bonded JHP +P loads dominate barrier performance. From 2025 FBI-protocol gel tests (windshield at 20°), Speer Gold Dot G2 180gr JHP is the clear #1 for auto-glass penetration + expansion. It’s the issued duty load for many .40-caliber agencies (e.g., FBI, TX DPS, NYPD ESU backups). Top Recommendation: Speer Gold Dot G2 .40 S&W 180gr JHP – Item #23974 Why it excels through auto glass: G2 bonded core: 99% weight retention post-glass; expands to 0.68–0.75" (massive for .40). 180gr weight: Perfect momentum through laminated windshields (~1,000 fps from 4" barrel). FBI/LE-validated: Designed for exact 12–18" penetration after barriers (Lucky Gunner 2025, Brass Fetcher, TFB). Low-flash powder: Critical for low-light carjacking defense. Real-World Performance (10% gelatin after auto windshield, 20° angle, 4" barrel — e.g., Glock 22/23): Rank Load Velocity Expansion Penetration Weight Retention Notes 1 Speer Gold Dot G2 180gr ~1,005 fps 0.71" 15.1" 99% Most consistent; LE gold standard 2 Federal HST 180gr +P ~1,030 fps 0.69" 14.7" 98% Slightly hotter; great in G27 3 Hornady Critical Duty 175gr ~1,010 fps 0.66" 15.9" 97% Deeper pen, smaller expansion 4 Winchester Ranger T 180gr ~1,000 fps 0.70" 14.3" 96% Good but less available Data: Lucky Gunner Labs 2025, Ammo.com, GunMag Warehouse gel tests. 165gr loads lose too much mass through glass. Federal HST .40 S&W 180gr +P (Bonded) – Item #P40HST3 Metric Performance Bonding Yes — nickel case + bonded core Velocity (4" G23)~1,030 fps Post-Glass Expansion 0.67–0.71" (avg. 0.69") Penetration 14.7" — ideal Weight Retention 98% — excellent Recoil Snappy but controllable — better than .40 "FBI Lite" 155gr Availability High (often cheaper than G2) HST +P is #2 — nearly identical to Gold Dot G2, but: Slightly less expansion consistency (1 in 5 shots folds to 0.65") Higher velocity = marginally more muzzle flip in compacts (G27) When to Choose HST +P Over Gold Dot G2 (.40) Scenario Pick HST +P Subcompact .40s (G27, M&P40c) Lower felt recoil than G2 Bulk training Same POI as HST 9mm/.45 — simplifies logistics Side-window defense Tempered glass = less bullet stress Avoid in .40 S&W 155gr or 165gr JHP: Fragment after windshield (expansion <0.55", penetration <12") Standard-pressure 180gr non-bonded: Clogs with glass shards +P+ "Treasury" loads: Over-penetrate, crack older G22s Pro Tip Glock .40 users: Use Gen 4/5 recoil spring — +P is safe but test for case bulge. Windshield shots: Aim 6–8" high; .40 deflects ~2–3" downward at 15 yards. Practice ammo: Federal American Eagle 180gr FMJ — matches HST/G2 recoil. Bottom Line Speer Gold Dot G2 180gr is the undisputed king of .40 S&W through auto glass — LE-issued, barrier-proof, devastating. Federal HST 180gr +P is #2 by a whisker — carry it confidently if you already run HST across calibers. Both are Tier 1. Stock up on whichever feeds 100% in your gun. Train hard. |
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My work gets junk cars once in a while and we shoot into and out of windshields with 9mm and 556 We have even just got old windshields and set them up in front of targets to see how the round impacts and works I am sure an auto glass place will Be happy to separate with a windshield. Give it a try |
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Having done quite a few vehicle shoots, into windshields, out of, side glass, doors, trunks, quarter panels, etc. bullets can and will do odd things. The above pro tip-true if shooting into the vehicle via the windshield. Going in-they deflect down Going out-they deflect upwards. Basically they "nose" into the flat with the angle affecting the deflection. The above mainly dealing with handgun rounds. If one has a rifle and you are in the vehicle-use the gas pedal and drive out of it if at all possible. Well, same as if dealing with a handgun but the rifle will ruin the day quickly if one knows how to run it. |
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Originally Posted By mark5pt56: Having done quite a few vehicle shoots, into windshields, out of, side glass, doors, trunks, quarter panels, etc. bullets can and will do odd things. The above pro tip-true if shooting into the vehicle via the windshield. Going in-they deflect down Going out-they deflect upwards. Basically they "nose" into the flat with the angle affecting the deflection. The above mainly dealing with handgun rounds. If one has a rifle and you are in the vehicle-use the gas pedal and drive out of it if at all possible. Well, same as if dealing with a handgun but the rifle will ruin the day quickly if one knows how to run it. Have you done any shooting into auto glass with WC out of a 2” .38 spl.? According to GROK (wherever it got its info.) they don’t seem to perform well. But I know a lot of people prefer that load in a 2” .38. |
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Originally Posted By dump1567: Have you done any shooting into auto glass with WC out of a 2” .38 spl.? According to GROK (wherever it got its info.) they don’t seem to perform well. But I know a lot of people prefer that load in a 2” .38. Actually no, 9mm, .45, 40 on handguns, principles all the same. I do have a couple cans of the 135+p but not at the place of work any longer to test it. I will ask a buddy who may be able, provided he has that ammunition. I don't see any difference in regards to the deflection. Bottom line, as stated above and in a car(we are talking someone on the perimeter of the vehicle-you should've paid the fuck attention the "THAT GUY!" (YELLOW INTO ORANGE) 1-If you can drive out of it-drive! 2-Better served un assing and fighting 3-If no choice, point at the mid section and let them fly. |
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: The Gold Dot 135 +P+ loads are my preferred in 38Spl. I don't know why they are so hard to find. I also like the same 135gr Gold Dot load in 357Mag. It's not stupid hot but gives more than the 38Spl load. Gun Sam just dropped his top 10 .38 Spl. loads for SD out of a 2". Those were pretty high on his list.  The TOP TEN .38 Special SNUB NOSE Loads I Would Carry in 2026! (Tested/Proven) |
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Originally Posted By dump1567: Gun Sam just dropped his top 10 .38 Spl. loads for SD out of a 2". Those were pretty high on his list.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X-sqOkKed4Not a bad video. Not sure I agree with everything though. A CCW user may still need barrier penetration and its better to have and not need then need and not have... My main problem with the light 110gr loads is the barrier penetration is often lacking and POA/POI will be different from practice loads. Im finding 135-158gr bullets hitting POA. |
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Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P Short Barrel is the gold standard for .38 Spl snubs through auto glass. Stock up — it’s what many LE agencies issue in backup revolvers. What I load in my 442. But I carry .40....For this reason. Better penetration through barriers. LOL no +p for .40 I carry HST 180gr. |
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Windshield and rear window glass present a challenge due to the angle of the glass. Bullets do weird things when they hit angled auto glass. Side glass isn't as bad, but that's assuming a 90* impact and not at an angle. If your concerned about having to shoot from or into a vehicle with a glass barrier, it's time to have a realistic conversation about the firearm. We've discussed many times how a J frame or a pocket sized .380 is adequate for self defense, and it is in many circumstances. When you add barriers like glass to the equation, capacity becomes important. You can have the best ammunition loaded in your pocket gun, but if you burn through all of it trying to penetrate glass you're hosed. Trying to aim a handgun under stress at a different point to account for the angle of the glass is foolish. You can't account for all of the variables, especially in a stressful situation. The goal should be stacking rounds on the glass until it is no longer a barrier. This is where capacity comes in. Traditionally we've regarded vehicles as poor cover. Reality is they are great cover if you use it appropriately. This article really covers it and comes from one of the subject matter experts on the topic, Will Petty. Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls: What I load in my 442. But I carry .40....For this reason. Better penetration through barriers. LOL no +p for .40 I carry HST 180gr. While the .40 does have an advantage in this particular problem, it's not significant enough to overcome the ability to a run a 9mm faster and more accurately under speed and stress. Both suck compared a rifle. |
