Pistols with RMR / mini red dots are awesome. The future is now (Page 11 of 74)
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Just starting the learning process of shooting with an RMR, have a ways to go, but think I'm really going to like it. Attached File |
The 2nd amendment is not just a right, it's a responsibility. So train like it...
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Originally Posted By eviljoe:
One thing I notice is how much faster I am with some dots over others. Sure, the size and clarity of the glass matters, but what matters MOST to me is how low the optic is on the slide and the angle of the grip. Though I'm sure at some point, it could get too low and small (not sure about those TINY new docter QUIKsites--but who knows; I like that it's fully enclosed). I have a SHIELD RMSc on my P365 (with an XL grip), and I can naturally pull it up and the dot is ALWAYS on target. I was starting from a low ready and just raising it up and making hits from 5Y to 15Y easily. Even at 15Y, my offhand shots were within a 3" group (just a few flyers made it out to 4"-5" inches), and my times were .4 to .7 with an average around .55-.65 seconds. As soon as my sight picture looked good, I'd just pull the trigger keeping it steady and make the hit--very few flyers and no low left!!...though after looking at pics of groups, I realized all the ammo (115, 124, and 147) was shooting a little low from 5Y to 15Y. BUT I have an RMR06.t2 on a G43X, and then two G19s with holosuns (a 407CO and a 508T). The height is basically the same on all of them, but the bigger glass makes me faster with the holosuns. My plan was to figure out which one I liked better and sell the other; however, the 407CO is VERY good for 25Y and in, BUT the 508T is tougher, and looks much cooler, which we all know from Garand Thumb (aka Daddy) is the most important thing. I have the most trouble with the RMR on the 43X or the G19. Part of it is that I need to break myself of presenting with the dot a bit too high, and part of it is that my sights are a bit too high covering so much of the glass--they have the entire rear notch exposed over the base of the RMR or Holosun. I got them ::cough:: Suarez because I read they were really low; however, I also got the lower-cowitness Suarez and they're too low (I bet they're perfect on MILLED glock slides though). I find myself lowering the front sight to "guide" me to the dot, but that's no way to shoot a red-dot. At 15Y, I wasn't quite as accurate and my times were more in the .75s-.8s...often 1/4-1/3 a second slower. ** I do think the RMR is magnifying the target a bit, which was nice at 15Y and beyond. :) -- NOTE: I don't think dot size is affecting things much. I have an astigmatism, which can sometimes cause me to see two dots (the lower left one is the real dot); however, about 80% of the time during the day (and at the range), the dots are plenty good with no doubling. I definitely love the 6-8MOA ring of the 407CO, but I wish it were a 4-5MOA (or 3.5-5MOA) ring. The SHIELD is a 4MOA and, like the 3.25MOA RMR, always seems to have a little bloom to it except in low light (the RMR could be set to manual if I wanted to though). I'm torn on the circle-dot of the 508T. The circle can be very busy inside of 20Y....I really think a 40-48MOA circle would work better than a 32MOA...the circle just helps you center it on stuff. But inside 20Y, the 32MOA just makes for a big and busy dot. |
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Originally Posted By mban2: anyone who has presentation issues with a red dot also has presentation issues with iron sight, you just don’t notice it as much with irons. If you dryfire for 10 min a day for a week, all issues will resolve themselves. But if that is too much to ask, then maybe hanging to guns up for good is a solid choice My RMR let me know how crappy my draw really was. 3 nights for 10 minutes a night is what it took. |
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Originally Posted By Fongman:
Just starting the learning process of shooting with an RMR, have a ways to go, but think I'm really going to like it. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20771/IMG_3467_2_jpeg-1308843.JPG |
Gun control is like trying to eliminate drunk driving by making it illegal for sober people to own cars
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Originally Posted By JoeMal:
That a purchased slide or painted? Originally Posted By JoeMal:
Originally Posted By Fongman:
Just starting the learning process of shooting with an RMR, have a ways to go, but think I'm really going to like it. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20771/IMG_3467_2_jpeg-1308843.JPG 
Primary Machine. |
The 2nd amendment is not just a right, it's a responsibility. So train like it...
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I just got my P10C back from Primary Machine with a 507C mounted,
The machine and Cerakote work is outstanding as was customer service, I ran a magazine when I got home after work the day it was delivered just to get a rough zero and did a little more fine tuning this morning, not one of my better shooting days but it's A zone dialed at 25yd's off hand any way. The circle reticle doesn't do anything for me (didn't expect it would) and the auto intensity setting is kind if iffy standing in dim shooting to bright light with the small dot, so I'm running it on manual setting 7-8. This is my second RDS in about 90-120 days... I've read the Sage Dynamic's white paper, watched (some twice) and learned considerably from the videos. I'm sold, the future is now. |
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I'm one of those that's struggling with finding the dot. After the first 2 or 3 minutes of dry fire, it becomes instinctive, but it's the same problem every day at the start of the session. It's not the firearm presentation, it's my head placement that has to be relearned daily. Afraid I'm in strong disagreement with those that say co-witness is a waste of time. If I had a taller front site and a rear sight for co-witness, I believe it would be much quicker. In fact, thinking about ditching the current red dot until I can afford a second M&P with a milled slide instead of the current dovetail mount I'm using. I'm also seeing that target acquisition with a rifle with red dot is vastly quicker than with a hand gun. |
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Originally Posted By Piratepast40: I'm one of those that's struggling with finding the dot. After the first 2 or 3 minutes of dry fire, it becomes instinctive, but it's the same problem every day at the start of the session. It's not the firearm presentation, it's my head placement that has to be relearned daily. Afraid I'm in strong disagreement with those that say co-witness is a waste of time. If I had a taller front site and a rear sight for co-witness, I believe it would be much quicker. In fact, thinking about ditching the current red dot until I can afford a second M&P with a milled slide instead of the current dovetail mount I'm using. I'm also seeing that target acquisition with a rifle with red dot is vastly quicker than with a hand gun. I learned a tip that has seriously helped me. Head placement shouldn’t be an issue. I was doing the turtle. If you are, stop it. Leave your head where it is. Bring the dot up to your dominating eye, don’t meet halfway with your head. |
I like my Glocks like I like my women; 19, hard bodied, and in my pants. - NY_Shooter
NorCal Callsign: Hooligan
NorCal Callsign: Hooligan
| Trying to "unlearn" traditional sighting. I typically put the front sight on the target and then bring the rear sight up to complete the picture. It typically works that the sight picture is complete at the end of my arm extension. Learning to bring the firearm flat and up is a much different than front sight and extension. Wondering when extension occurs during this method. Do you focus on the target and bring the firearm up flat with arms fully extended and then find the dot, or do you get the dot first and then the target? |
Tomorrow will be 2 weeks into a 4-6 week wait for a cut from Black Phoenix. Couldn't resist their 'tax season' sale. With all the stuff going on in the world...my slide can't get back to me soon enough....
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Gun control is like trying to eliminate drunk driving by making it illegal for sober people to own cars
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Originally Posted By Piratepast40: Trying to "unlearn" traditional sighting. I typically put the front sight on the target and then bring the rear sight up to complete the picture. It typically works that the sight picture is complete at the end of my arm extension. Learning to bring the firearm flat and up is a much different than front sight and extension. Wondering when extension occurs during this method. Do you focus on the target and bring the firearm up flat with arms fully extended and then find the dot, or do you get the dot first and then the target? target then the dot |
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Originally Posted By Piratepast40: Trying to "unlearn" traditional sighting. I typically put the front sight on the target and then bring the rear sight up to complete the picture. It typically works that the sight picture is complete at the end of my arm extension. Learning to bring the firearm flat and up is a much different than front sight and extension. Wondering when extension occurs during this method. Do you focus on the target and bring the firearm up flat with arms fully extended and then find the dot, or do you get the dot first and then the target? Competitive shooters were teaching to bring the gun up flat and sights into your view long before red dots became popular. Traditional sighting is a thing of the past. |
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I've been trying to like a pistol red dot since Dec. I started with a milled slide and RMR, then a Holosun for the larger window. The more I thought about it.....I'm already fast on irons. Why am I spending so much time to learn a system with electronics and a battery(point of failure) that I don't like to gain what, slight speed increase at distance? Gunfights are statistically 3yds less than 3 shots less than 3 seconds. It was fun, it was expensive, I'm out. Big thanks to all that helped me with my many questions. |
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Originally Posted By Holdemdown: I've been trying to like a pistol red dot since Dec. I started with a milled slide and RMR, then a Holosun for the larger window. The more I thought about it.....I'm already fast on irons. Why am I spending so much time to learn a system with electronics and a battery(point of failure) that I don't like to gain what, slight speed increase at distance? Gunfights are statistically 3yds less than 3 shots less than 3 seconds. It was fun, it was expensive, I'm out. Big thanks to all that helped me with my many questions. Fast on irons? Define fast. Statistically 3 yards? Until homeboy in the Texas church plinked the guy in the head at 10+ yards. 3 Seconds? Where did you hear that nonsense? If you want to use your irons, that's fine, but don't pretend you're a GM because you are too lazy to invest the time to become a better shooter. |
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Originally Posted By Holdemdown: I've been trying to like a pistol red dot since Dec. I started with a milled slide and RMR, then a Holosun for the larger window. The more I thought about it.....I'm already fast on irons. Why am I spending so much time to learn a system with electronics and a battery(point of failure) that I don't like to gain what, slight speed increase at distance? Gunfights are statistically 3yds less than 3 shots less than 3 seconds. It was fun, it was expensive, I'm out. Big thanks to all that helped me with my many questions. Nothing wrong with that position. Can you cite those stats? |
"People don't think Cola Warrior be like it is but it do..." - George Washington
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Originally Posted By DAVE_M: If you want to use your irons, that's fine, but don't pretend you're a GM because you are too lazy to invest the time to become a better shooter. Shooting with an optic == better shooter? Interesting. I never knew that equipment gave you skill. I always assumed it was the other way around. |
"People don't think Cola Warrior be like it is but it do..." - George Washington
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Originally Posted By JoeMal: Life is not one size fits all We need to quit beating each other up over preferences, opinions, and feelings Yep - carry what works best for you. Even if it upsets the elitists. (most of which I would smoke with Irons, btw) 
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"People don't think Cola Warrior be like it is but it do..." - George Washington
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Originally Posted By Holdemdown: I've been trying to like a pistol red dot since Dec. I started with a milled slide and RMR, then a Holosun for the larger window. The more I thought about it.....I'm already fast on irons. Why am I spending so much time to learn a system with electronics and a battery(point of failure) that I don't like to gain what, slight speed increase at distance? Gunfights are statistically 3yds less than 3 shots less than 3 seconds. It was fun, it was expensive, I'm out. Big thanks to all that helped me with my many questions. Ya know what?? Good on you... You gave it a whirl, made your evaluation and then made your decision. Nothing wrong with that at all.... I may very well be in the same camp as you down the road. At the end of the day, you have to do you....nobody else does. |
Just Drop... Buckethead!
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Originally Posted By bcauz3y: Shooting with an optic == better shooter? Interesting. I never knew that equipment gave you skill. I always assumed it was the other way around. Good job not comprehending a single thing in that post... No one said equipment gives you skill. People who can't shoot fast with dots tend to shoot poorly with irons also. People who tout that they are "fast" with irons typically are not. The whole 3 yards 3 seconds BS annoys me more than someone choosing to shoot with whatever they want. |
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Originally Posted By DAVE_M: Good job not comprehending a single thing in that post... No one said equipment gives you skill. People who can't shoot fast with dots tend to shoot poorly with irons also. People who tout that they are "fast" with irons typically are not. Oh relax. So serious and defensive.  |
"People don't think Cola Warrior be like it is but it do..." - George Washington
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Originally Posted By DAVE_M: Not in the slightest. Just pointing out nonsense when I see it. Speaking of which, did you ever post your times/targets/videos of your epic speed with RDS? |
"People don't think Cola Warrior be like it is but it do..." - George Washington
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Originally Posted By bcauz3y: Speaking of which, did you ever post your times/targets/videos of your epic speed with RDS? Oh look, I struck a nerve. Do you want to turn this into a measuring contest? Because here are my humble times and targets... I'm not claiming to be a GM, nor am I claiming to be "fast" with anything. I can pass various drills under par. I keep a log of my times for drills. Some days good, some days bad. There is a lot more to it than if you use irons or a dot. Dots have many advantages over irons with little to no downsides if you take care of your equipment.       |
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Originally Posted By bcauz3y: Was thinking about you when I was smoking the pistol at CWSE using a pistol with RDS.  I'm still on the RDS side of this fence... Been awhile for range trips and this Corona virus is not helping... I want to get out and get more rds... I really dig how it's made my mid and longer range game much more accurate. I was very close to pulling the trigger on a 1 day RDS class that Vortex was hosting at there indoor range about 90 mins from me, but then spent the money on ammo instead... 
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Just Drop... Buckethead!
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Originally Posted By Harv24: I'm still on the RDS side of this fence... Been awhile for range trips and this Corona virus is not helping... I want to get out and get more rds... I really dig how it's made my mid and longer range game much more accurate. I was very close to pulling the trigger on a 1 day RDS class that Vortex was hosting at there indoor range about 90 mins from me, but then spent the money on ammo instead... There is a P&S podcast with Tim Herron and BJ Norris both on the panel. BJ makes some really good points about dot size and how pistol RDS are faster not only at distance but closer distances as well. |
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Originally Posted By DAVE_M: Oh look, I struck a nerve. Do you want to turn this into a measuring contest? Because here are my humble times and targets... I'm not claiming to be a GM, nor am I claiming to be "fast" with anything. I can pass various drills under par. I keep a log of my times for drills. Some days good, some days bad. There is a lot more to it than if you use irons or a dot. Dots have many advantages over irons with little to no downsides if you take care of your equipment. https://live.staticflickr.com/7801/33584473118_2ae095763a_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/7826/46737622634_bd69b97848_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48169658827_f29987159c_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48169585946_3c39886412_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47782494561_82e06c541d_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48169651807_923003d34d_c.jpg Not bad at all. Not striking a nerve, but if you're gonna talk shit, you better be able to be back it up. Clearly you can. 
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"People don't think Cola Warrior be like it is but it do..." - George Washington
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Originally Posted By bcauz3y: Not bad at all. Not striking a nerve, but if you're gonna talk shit, you better be able to be back it up. Clearly you can. I agree. I'm not an amazing shooter, but I do okay. I don't shoot competitions and that probably holds me back, but life happens. I take issue with people dismissing something because they say "I'm fast with irons." They have to quantify fast. In a room full of beginners, I'm the flash. In a room full of IPSC GM's, I'm a snail. |
I just got my second one completed. Jagerwerks did a great job on the slide. RM06 Type 2. Apex trigger kit. Frame done by a local shop CWgunwerks. Dawson precision irons, .305/.300”. 
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I like my Glocks like I like my women; 19, hard bodied, and in my pants. - NY_Shooter
NorCal Callsign: Hooligan
NorCal Callsign: Hooligan
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Originally Posted By Holdemdown: I've been trying to like a pistol red dot since Dec. I started with a milled slide and RMR, then a Holosun for the larger window. The more I thought about it.....I'm already fast on irons. Why am I spending so much time to learn a system with electronics and a battery(point of failure) that I don't like to gain what, slight speed increase at distance? Gunfights are statistically 3yds less than 3 shots less than 3 seconds. It was fun, it was expensive, I'm out. Big thanks to all that helped me with my many questions. I haven’t heard someone trot that line out seriously in a long time. |
If you're good at something, never do it for free.
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: I haven’t heard someone trot that line out seriously in a long time. Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By Holdemdown: I've been trying to like a pistol red dot since Dec. I started with a milled slide and RMR, then a Holosun for the larger window. The more I thought about it.....I'm already fast on irons. Why am I spending so much time to learn a system with electronics and a battery(point of failure) that I don't like to gain what, slight speed increase at distance? Gunfights are statistically 3yds less than 3 shots less than 3 seconds. It was fun, it was expensive, I'm out. Big thanks to all that helped me with my many questions. I haven’t heard someone trot that line out seriously in a long time. This sounds familar...... Haikus for everyone!!! |
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G17.5 with RMR06 type 2 in Agency Arms AOS cut. Defoor hat qual on a very windy day.... it can do better Attached File |
Shoot, Move, and Communicate
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Originally Posted By MONGO45: G17.5 with RMR06 type 2 in Agency Arms AOS cut. Defoor hat qual on a very windy day.... it can do better https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/86935/D409C744-ED74-48C2-BEBE-717A84C44067_jpe-1342857.JPG 
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Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/53285/E5B3D0A6-4119-4B74-AEC7-A48AF7F66E28_jpe-1343635.JPG I’m a fan of dots on Berettas I’d have been very interested in how you got that Dueck Defense mount on there if Langdon weren’t releasing his 92-series red dot setup soon-ish. I bet that thing shoots awesome with that comp on there though. |
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Originally Posted By bmo419: I’d have been very interested in how you got that Dueck Defense mount on there if Langdon weren’t releasing his 92-series red dot setup soon-ish. I bet that thing shoots awesome with that comp on there though. I havent had a chance to put a lot of rounds through this set up (comped 96) yet, but the RBU-Beretta combo has been working like a champ for me for a while. While I'll be trying out Langdon's solution once it hits the market, the modified RBU is reality now. |
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I did a short video for another thread yesterday.... I started using red dots after I was nearly blind from Lyme and related tick borne diseases. Also age is catching up with my eyes. 4.5 years of antibiotics and antimalarials I’m doing pretty good! I wish red dots would have been around when I still had good eyes and better reflexes.  Social Distancing II |
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Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/53285/E5B3D0A6-4119-4B74-AEC7-A48AF7F66E28_jpe-1343635.JPG I’m a fan of dots on Berettas What mount is that and would it work with a 92fs? |
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Haven't shot in a few weeks. Not the fastest guy but I'm consistent. Distance is 17 Y. Piece of cake with RMR. We threw some movement in later on.  Failed To Load Title |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: Haven't shot in a few weeks. Not the fastest guy but I'm consistent. Distance is 17 Y. Piece of cake with RMR. We threw some movement in later on.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQSBKrzA4sAttached File |
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With no barbers open this is my excuse to look like him when I go back to the office
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Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: Haven't shot in a few weeks. Not the fastest guy but I'm consistent. Distance is 17 Y. Piece of cake with RMR. We threw some movement in later on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQSBKrzA4sNot bad...for someone wearing sandals....
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Just Drop... Buckethead!