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Posted: 8/16/2024 10:33:25 PM EDT
I was on the fence about starting this quite yet but figured I would start here. An member reached out to me for me to test out a prototype mount. It was out of the blue and I took him up on it. I've always like mrds on handguns but have been holding off. He offered a mount and optic for testing.
It came unfinished since it's still a prototype and it looks nice. It fit the revolver very well. There's no wiggle. It mounts with 3 screws. Due to how far back the optic is the 2 front screws are usable without removing the optic. I might try just using the front 2 and using it between my mountain gun and my m66-8. I like how far back it's mounted. I was hoping it would fit my pmk but it doesn't. It fit my jmcustom with 1minute of hacksaw work. My presentation is pretty solid and the red dot is on target as soon as the gun is up. Kinda like how it should. Now for the bad. It shoots high. Like way high. Like 8" at 25 yards and 16ish high at 50. By aiming low I was able to shoot some very good groups much quicker than normal at those ranges. I aimed at a rock bellow my steel at 50 yards and just kept nailing it DA with much less effort than normal. I shot 100 rounds, about 50/50 .38/mags. I contacted the maker and he's working on a fix. I think once he nails the right angle it'll be absolutely perfect.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/16/2024 10:43:07 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/16/2024 10:55:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Wouldn't a shim just raise the optic and make it shoot higher? Before anyone jumps me for asking, I've only got one pistol with a red dot at the moment so that's why I'm asking; I've shot others with them but never shot a revolver with one.
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:00:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sandboxmedic: Wouldn't a shim just raise the optic and make it shoot higher? Before anyone jumps me for asking, I've only got one pistol with a red dot at the moment so that's why I'm asking; I've shot others with them but never shot a revolver with one. It's angled  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:03:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sandboxmedic: Wouldn't a shim just raise the optic and make it shoot higher? Before anyone jumps me for asking, I've only got one pistol with a red dot at the moment so that's why I'm asking; I've shot others with them but never shot a revolver with one. it's the same philosophy you'll see in long range precision guns. Called "canted bases" If you're shooting beyond the range of your scopes travel, if you point the scope "down" in relation to the bore of your rifle you get more downward movement of the cross hairs, or in this case, circle-dot |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:11:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Urimaginaryfrnd]
[#5]
Got it now- the shim is canted and not flat.
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:13:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Hmm, didn't see the part about it being angled. That makes sense but it would seem, to me in my inexperience with them anyways, that it would sort of lock you into a set range and you'd have to adjust your hold more for shorter or longer distance. I'm probably not expressing that very clearly but as I said, I've never tried one.
 Looks like a neat project anyways. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:14:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Ok the shim is canted that should work.
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:15:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Neat. I was hoping someone (besides allchin) would jump in to fill the space left by raptor engineering closure. I actually emailed and asked if they would consider selling the drawings but the response was inconclusive and I figured it likely isn't that hard to draw up something new anyways. Here we are.
I don't have anything against allchin and all reports indicate they are fine quality and get the job done. Options are always nice though. Will keep an eye on this one 
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:16:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 03RN]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd: I don’t think the shim is your answer. Note how a plus 10 MOA or plus 20 MOA base is canted not flat. If you have reached the limit of internal adjustment for the red dot the cant needs to be built into the mount. Nevermind 
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Posted: 8/16/2024 11:18:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wookie1562: Neat. I was hoping someone (besides allchin) would jump in to fill the space left by raptor engineering closure. I actually emailed and asked if they would consider selling the drawings but the response was inconclusive and I figured it likely isn't that hard to draw up something new anyways. Here we are. I don't have anything against allchin and all reports indicate they are fine quality and get the job done. Options are always nice though. Will keep an eye on this one Plus with it farther back it's not hitting my belt like the alchin would |
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Posted: 8/17/2024 10:57:38 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 8/17/2024 11:17:01 AM EDT
[#12]
A plain felt bob on a Dremel will polish that edge up.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2024 11:26:41 AM EDT
[#13]
I really like that mount. It's nice and low. How stiff is it?
I assume it just replaces an adjustable S&W rear sight? Are those all the same for different models ( K-L-N frame)? |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 8:07:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Looks like a good system. Maybe someday I’ll join the RDS pistol master race but right now I’m just not there. Just like on rifles, I’ve got literally over a dozen “pimped out” SBR’s with all the best high speed stuff but the rifles I enjoy shooting the most now are simple iron sight guns.
I do have one Glock 17 with an ALG six second mount equipped with a Trijicon RMR. I might finally build up a Glock 19 MOS this fall, but my heart isn’t in it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 8:30:49 AM EDT
[#15]
When all semi-autos are banned, we will all carry RDS revolvers.
I’m sewing my speedloader bandolier as we speak. |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 12:06:30 PM EDT
[#16]
I was at the GOA GOALS event in Knoxville yesterday and saw that Shield Arms had a prototype J-frame RDS mount on display. It is a plate which mounts to the sideplate, using screws which replace the factory sideplate screws. It's still in the development phase, but it looked interesting. I was told that if it sells well enough, they may do them for other size frames. They had it mounted on a 442 and it looked as if they are specifically designed for Centennials at his point, as it looked as if it might interfere with a hammer.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2024 3:04:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SiVisPacem: I was at the GOA GOALS event in Knoxville yesterday and saw that Shield Arms had a prototype J-frame RDS mount on display. It is a plate which mounts to the sideplate, using screws which replace the factory sideplate screws. It's still in the development phase, but it looked interesting. I was told that if it sells well enough, they may do them for other size frames. They had it mounted on a 442 and it looked as if they are specifically designed for Centennials at his point, as it looked as if it might interfere with a hammer. I'm all for having options and that does sound like an interesting option, but I don't think I'd put an RDS on a j-frame. I see them as deep concealment, BUG and pocket guns. An RDS could greatly hinder that use. However, a K-frame or larger makes a great target gun and an RDS enhances that use without greatly hurting the ability to use the gun IWB for concealed carry, or as a home defense gun. That said, some folks do buy j-frames for IWB carry and that mount might greatly contribute to enhanced accuracy, as well as better sighting at night, for that use case. |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 4:02:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: I'm all for having options and that does sound like an interesting option, but I don't think I'd put an RDS on a j-frame. I see them as deep concealment, BUG and pocket guns. An RDS could greatly hinder that use. However, a K-frame or larger makes a great target gun and an RDS enhances that use without greatly hurting the ability to use the gun IWB for concealed carry, or as a home defense gun. That said, some folks do buy j-frames for IWB carry and that mount might greatly contribute to enhanced accuracy, as well as better sighting at night, for that use case. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By SiVisPacem: I was at the GOA GOALS event in Knoxville yesterday and saw that Shield Arms had a prototype J-frame RDS mount on display. It is a plate which mounts to the sideplate, using screws which replace the factory sideplate screws. It's still in the development phase, but it looked interesting. I was told that if it sells well enough, they may do them for other size frames. They had it mounted on a 442 and it looked as if they are specifically designed for Centennials at his point, as it looked as if it might interfere with a hammer. I'm all for having options and that does sound like an interesting option, but I don't think I'd put an RDS on a j-frame. I see them as deep concealment, BUG and pocket guns. An RDS could greatly hinder that use. However, a K-frame or larger makes a great target gun and an RDS enhances that use without greatly hurting the ability to use the gun IWB for concealed carry, or as a home defense gun. That said, some folks do buy j-frames for IWB carry and that mount might greatly contribute to enhanced accuracy, as well as better sighting at night, for that use case. A J frame mount w/ an RDS and a light would satisfy 87% of J frame uses. |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 8:16:17 PM EDT
[#19]
That seems like a much more elegant solution than the TRR8.
 Does that mount maker plan to do anything for N-frames? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2024 8:21:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: A J frame mount w/ an RDS and a light would satisfy 87% of J frame uses. Just curious, what would you say are 87% of J frame use cases? |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 9:55:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: I'm all for having options and that does sound like an interesting option, but I don't think I'd put an RDS on a j-frame. I see them as deep concealment, BUG and pocket guns. An RDS could greatly hinder that use. However, a K-frame or larger makes a great target gun and an RDS enhances that use without greatly hurting the ability to use the gun IWB for concealed carry, or as a home defense gun. That said, some folks do buy j-frames for IWB carry and that mount might greatly contribute to enhanced accuracy, as well as better sighting at night, for that use case. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By SiVisPacem: I was at the GOA GOALS event in Knoxville yesterday and saw that Shield Arms had a prototype J-frame RDS mount on display. It is a plate which mounts to the sideplate, using screws which replace the factory sideplate screws. It's still in the development phase, but it looked interesting. I was told that if it sells well enough, they may do them for other size frames. They had it mounted on a 442 and it looked as if they are specifically designed for Centennials at his point, as it looked as if it might interfere with a hammer. I'm all for having options and that does sound like an interesting option, but I don't think I'd put an RDS on a j-frame. I see them as deep concealment, BUG and pocket guns. An RDS could greatly hinder that use. However, a K-frame or larger makes a great target gun and an RDS enhances that use without greatly hurting the ability to use the gun IWB for concealed carry, or as a home defense gun. That said, some folks do buy j-frames for IWB carry and that mount might greatly contribute to enhanced accuracy, as well as better sighting at night, for that use case. Yeah, I see little use for it on a J-frame for me but would love to see a K/L-frame version. |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 10:00:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By dmk0210: I really like that mount. It's nice and low. How stiff is it? I assume it just replaces an adjustable S&W rear sight? Are those all the same for different models ( K-L-N frame)? Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: That seems like a much more elegant solution than the TRR8. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/129976/1AE33E1B-8D66-4E04-A8A6-B23AD0BC1F2D-1806403.jpg Does that mount maker plan to do anything for N-frames? Same mount for all 3 frames |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 10:38:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Just curious, what would you say are 87% of J frame use cases? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: A J frame mount w/ an RDS and a light would satisfy 87% of J frame uses. Just curious, what would you say are 87% of J frame use cases? BUGs/Primaries for folks who don't want to carry an auto for one reason or another - weak wemin, elderly, non-gun/low training time, 03RN.  Excluding the .22 camp guns. |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 10:47:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: BUGs/Primaries for folks who don't want to carry an auto for one reason or another - weak wemin, elderly, non-gun/low training time, 03RN. Excluding the .22 camp guns. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: A J frame mount w/ an RDS and a light would satisfy 87% of J frame uses. Just curious, what would you say are 87% of J frame use cases? BUGs/Primaries for folks who don't want to carry an auto for one reason or another - weak wemin, elderly, non-gun/low training time, 03RN. Excluding the .22 camp guns. Hey man, I don't have a single j frame. |
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Posted: 8/18/2024 11:19:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Hey man, I don't have a single j frame. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: A J frame mount w/ an RDS and a light would satisfy 87% of J frame uses. Just curious, what would you say are 87% of J frame use cases? BUGs/Primaries for folks who don't want to carry an auto for one reason or another - weak wemin, elderly, non-gun/low training time, 03RN. Excluding the .22 camp guns. Hey man, I don't have a single j frame. I am truly surprised. I thought you'd be the 1st on the list at your LGS for the Lipsey's .32 H&R Smith. |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 12:16:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: I am truly surprised. I thought you'd be the 1st on the list at your LGS for the Lipsey's .32 H&R Smith. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: A J frame mount w/ an RDS and a light would satisfy 87% of J frame uses. Just curious, what would you say are 87% of J frame use cases? BUGs/Primaries for folks who don't want to carry an auto for one reason or another - weak wemin, elderly, non-gun/low training time, 03RN. Excluding the .22 camp guns. Hey man, I don't have a single j frame. I am truly surprised. I thought you'd be the 1st on the list at your LGS for the Lipsey's .32 H&R Smith. Nope. Airsoft is as close as I've gone  j frame from the pocket |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 9:36:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Hey man, I don't have a single j frame. That's ok, I have enough for both of us (15 of my 42 S&W revolvers are J-frames). |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 10:24:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: chase45]
[#28]
I couldn't get over the height of the gun(with a dot) when holstered
 Took some time but I was laying down some real tight groups with it at the end |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 11:35:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45: I couldn't get over the height of the gun(with a dot) when holstered Took some time but I was laying down some real tight groups with it at the end You could use a couple of 45 degree Picatinny risers and mount it sideways, shoot it gangster. Certainly starts taking the supremely pocketable J frame that always works & rarely needs maintenance into a gun you have to work to conceal, check & replace the batteries regularly. |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 2:21:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: You could use a couple of 45 degree Picatinny risers and mount it sideways, shoot it gangster. Certainly starts taking the supremely pocketable J frame that always works & rarely needs maintenance into a gun you have to work to conceal, check & replace the batteries regularly. That's my biggest point of contention with the J-frame RDS mount I was looking at on Saturday. The J-frame-especially the Centennial versions-are purpose designed to be small and lightweight enough to be pocket carried. They're supposed to be close range guns. Once you throw a mount and an optic on them, you're not carrying it in a pocket and you might as well be carrying something akin to a 43X MOS or P365 with the added capacity and faster reloads. |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 2:32:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Stonia]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: It's angled https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/1000001316_jpg-3296428.JPG I had to use this with my Holosun\Allchin mount. Ran out of elevation adjustment. The consensus was that RMR may have enough elevation to not need it, but the Holosun does. Eta: I'm glad to see more revolver dot options, but I don't care for the amount of rear overhang present on the OP's. Would much prefer it to be flush with the end of the top. Any chance of an ACRO footprint? Afaik Apex is the only one making that footprint, but it too suffers from excessive rear overhang. |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 2:36:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SiVisPacem: That's my biggest point of contention with the J-frame RDS mount I was looking at on Saturday. The J-frame-especially the Centennial versions-are purpose designed to be small and lightweight enough to be pocket carried. They're supposed to be close range guns. Once you throw a mount and an optic on them, you're not carrying it in a pocket and you might as well be carrying something akin to a 43X MOS or P365 with the added capacity and faster reloads. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SiVisPacem: Originally Posted By backbencher: You could use a couple of 45 degree Picatinny risers and mount it sideways, shoot it gangster. Certainly starts taking the supremely pocketable J frame that always works & rarely needs maintenance into a gun you have to work to conceal, check & replace the batteries regularly. That's my biggest point of contention with the J-frame RDS mount I was looking at on Saturday. The J-frame-especially the Centennial versions-are purpose designed to be small and lightweight enough to be pocket carried. They're supposed to be close range guns. Once you throw a mount and an optic on them, you're not carrying it in a pocket and you might as well be carrying something akin to a 43X MOS or P365 with the added capacity and faster reloads. Unless you're elderly, a weak woman, or don't spend enough time training to master the "Where is the bullet now?" problem in an autoloader. Red dots zeroed for 50 yards take 2" barrels a lot further than we're used to. The J frame suddenly becomes a church shooter CNS hit from the other end of the sanctuary. Revolvers are an intuitive action for a noob, and require little maintenance. Throwing on a light & a red dot somewhat negates the maintenance advantage, but it certainly extends the effective range and makes a J frame much easier to get hits with. My response to women who complain that a gun is too big - ma'am, you can always take yer fella purse shopping & get a bigger purse. Purse carry for a primary may not be ideal, but it is one of the few advantages revolvers still maintain. What's that flat fiber optic/translucent polymer sight that kinda works like a red dot? That might be ideal for mounting on top of a J frame. No batteries needed. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 1:41:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: ... weak wemin, elderly, non-gun/low training time.... Uhg. The absolutely the worst use cases for a snubbie j-frame.  Of course, we experienced folks here all know that. 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 1:43:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SiVisPacem: Yeah, I see little use for it on a J-frame for me but would love to see a K/L-frame version. Yeah, that sideplate mount would be awesome for fixed sight K-frames, like the Model 10. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 1:46:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Certainly starts taking the supremely pocketable J frame that always works & rarely needs maintenance into a gun you have to work to conceal, check & replace the batteries regularly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Certainly starts taking the supremely pocketable J frame that always works & rarely needs maintenance into a gun you have to work to conceal, check & replace the batteries regularly. On a J,K,L,N you are likely hip holstering it either IWB or OWB (Maybe even a shoulder or chest holster) so accommodations can be made. Originally Posted By SiVisPacem: That's my biggest point of contention with the J-frame RDS mount I was looking at on Saturday. The J-frame-especially the Centennial versions-are purpose designed to be small and lightweight enough to be pocket carried. They're supposed to be close range guns. Once you throw a mount and an optic on them, you're not carrying it in a pocket and you might as well be carrying something akin to a 43X MOS or P365 with the added capacity and faster reloads. I carry a J-frame for two reasons. Pocket carry (due to size and smooth shape) or deep concealment in a belly band (due to ultra light weight). I'm using a belt holster, I can easily carry a compact 9mm auto with an RDS and a weapon light. |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 1:50:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Uhg. The absolutely the worst use cases for a snubbie j-frame. Of course, we experienced folks here all know that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher:... weak wemin, elderly, non-gun/low training time.... Uhg. The absolutely the worst use cases for a snubbie j-frame. Of course, we experienced folks here all know that. There are many worse guns that the weak or elderly can carry. A red dot would solve a lot of issues for those folks, as it would remove the short sight radius from the equation. I sell quite a few snubs, and generally it's not the young buying them. What I get a good bit of is men buying a gun for their wife, girlfriend, daughter, or mother. Why I sell steel frames & wadcutters instead of airweights & +Ps. |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 1:51:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: That was what I was getting at regarding the J-frame mount. On a J,K,L,N you are likely hip holstering it either IWB or OWB (Maybe even a shoulder or chest holster) so accommodations can be made. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: Certainly starts taking the supremely pocketable J frame that always works & rarely needs maintenance into a gun you have to work to conceal, check & replace the batteries regularly. On a J,K,L,N you are likely hip holstering it either IWB or OWB (Maybe even a shoulder or chest holster) so accommodations can be made.  Only way I carry a snub is in a jacket pocket - otherwise, what's the point?
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 1:59:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: There are many worse guns that the weak or elderly can carry. A red dot would solve a lot of issues for those folks, as it would remove the short sight radius from the equation. I sell quite a few snubs, and generally it's not the young buying them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: There are many worse guns that the weak or elderly can carry. A red dot would solve a lot of issues for those folks, as it would remove the short sight radius from the equation. I sell quite a few snubs, and generally it's not the young buying them. I've always called j-frames expert guns. They have a small grip, heavy trigger (in DA like they should be shot for self defense), difficult to use sights and a nasty recoil (even a steel frame 38 special). The combination is a bad choice for someone with weak hands and/or very litle experience shooting a handgun. Originally Posted By backbencher:What I get a good bit of is men buying a gun for their wife, girlfriend, daughter, or mother. Why I sell steel frames & wadcutters instead of airweights & +Ps. It figures most men will buy the little lady a tiny little gun.  The steel frame and wadcutters are a good idea though. The RDS would solve the sights issue, and a big Hogue or something can solve the grip issues. The DA trigger is still a problem though. Though of course most people do none of those things and get an airweight with boot grips, load it with +Ps and never practice with it. This is way off the thread topic though. Sorry for the side track. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 2:10:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Unless you're elderly, a weak woman, or don't spend enough time training to master the "Where is the bullet now?" problem in an autoloader. Red dots zeroed for 50 yards take 2" barrels a lot further than we're used to. The J frame suddenly becomes a church shooter CNS hit from the other end of the sanctuary. Revolvers are an intuitive action for a noob, and require little maintenance. Throwing on a light & a red dot somewhat negates the maintenance advantage, but it certainly extends the effective range and makes a J frame much easier to get hits with. My response to women who complain that a gun is too big - ma'am, you can always take yer fella purse shopping & get a bigger purse. Purse carry for a primary may not be ideal, but it is one of the few advantages revolvers still maintain. What's that flat fiber optic/translucent polymer sight that kinda works like a red dot? That might be ideal for mounting on top of a J frame. No batteries needed. The whole problem is hit probability. The RDS would definitely help, but sighting is only one part of getting hits with a handgun. The RDS does nothing for recoil control and mastering the trigger. Most people with little experience and/or weak hands need more gun to hold on to and a lighter/shorter trigger (more frame weight helps a lot too too). Once they are proficient with a bigger gun, then move to the subcompact and start all over again. But everyone trys to shortcut that and go right to the subcompacts for easy carry. Now you're just a liability with a gun. |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 2:27:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: I've always called j-frames expert guns. They have a small grip, heavy trigger (in DA like they should be shot for self defense), difficult to use sights and a nasty recoil (even a steel frame 38 special). The combination is a bad choice for someone with weak hands and/or very litle experience shooting a handgun. It figures most men will buy the little lady a tiny little gun. The steel frame and wadcutters are a good idea though. The RDS would solve the sights issue, and a big Hogue or something can solve the grip issues. The DA trigger is still a problem though. Though of course most people do none of those things and get an airweight with boot grips, load it with +Ps and never practice with it. This is way off the thread topic though. Sorry for the side track. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are many worse guns that the weak or elderly can carry. A red dot would solve a lot of issues for those folks, as it would remove the short sight radius from the equation. I sell quite a few snubs, and generally it's not the young buying them. I've always called j-frames expert guns. They have a small grip, heavy trigger (in DA like they should be shot for self defense), difficult to use sights and a nasty recoil (even a steel frame 38 special). The combination is a bad choice for someone with weak hands and/or very litle experience shooting a handgun. Originally Posted By backbencher:What I get a good bit of is men buying a gun for their wife, girlfriend, daughter, or mother. Why I sell steel frames & wadcutters instead of airweights & +Ps. It figures most men will buy the little lady a tiny little gun. The steel frame and wadcutters are a good idea though. The RDS would solve the sights issue, and a big Hogue or something can solve the grip issues. The DA trigger is still a problem though. Though of course most people do none of those things and get an airweight with boot grips, load it with +Ps and never practice with it. This is way off the thread topic though. Sorry for the side track. The sub $300 Rock Islands come w/ a decent set of polymer grips in the box. Not as concealable as the tiny wood grips, but a lot more shootable. |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 2:31:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: I agree with all of that. The whole problem is hit probability. The RDS would definitely help, but sighting is only one part of getting hits with a handgun. The RDS does nothing for recoil control and mastering the trigger. Most people with little experience and/or weak hands need more gun to hold on to and a lighter/shorter trigger (more frame weight helps a lot too too). Once they are proficient with a bigger gun, then move to the subcompact and start all over again. But everyone trys to shortcut that and go right to the subcompacts for easy carry. Now you're just a liability with a gun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: Unless you're elderly, a weak woman, or don't spend enough time training to master the "Where is the bullet now?" problem in an autoloader. Red dots zeroed for 50 yards take 2" barrels a lot further than we're used to. The J frame suddenly becomes a church shooter CNS hit from the other end of the sanctuary. Revolvers are an intuitive action for a noob, and require little maintenance. Throwing on a light & a red dot somewhat negates the maintenance advantage, but it certainly extends the effective range and makes a J frame much easier to get hits with. My response to women who complain that a gun is too big - ma'am, you can always take yer fella purse shopping & get a bigger purse. Purse carry for a primary may not be ideal, but it is one of the few advantages revolvers still maintain. What's that flat fiber optic/translucent polymer sight that kinda works like a red dot? That might be ideal for mounting on top of a J frame. No batteries needed. The whole problem is hit probability. The RDS would definitely help, but sighting is only one part of getting hits with a handgun. The RDS does nothing for recoil control and mastering the trigger. Most people with little experience and/or weak hands need more gun to hold on to and a lighter/shorter trigger (more frame weight helps a lot too too). Once they are proficient with a bigger gun, then move to the subcompact and start all over again. But everyone trys to shortcut that and go right to the subcompacts for easy carry. Now you're just a liability with a gun. I agree that a RDS isn't going to solve the long DA trigger pull, but if you're taking a shot at 50 yds you have time to cock the hammer. For 5 yds and under, I think most folks can hit the silhouette w/ wadcutters from a steel framed snub w/ very little training. Start expecting them to make 20 yd COM hits with one and they'll need training and practice - or a red dot & SA. |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 5:33:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: I agree that a RDS isn't going to solve the long DA trigger pull, but if you're taking a shot at 50 yds you have time to cock the hammer. For 5 yds and under, I think most folks can hit the silhouette w/ wadcutters from a steel framed snub w/ very little training. Start expecting them to make 20 yd COM hits with one and they'll need training and practice - or a red dot & SA. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: Unless you're elderly, a weak woman, or don't spend enough time training to master the "Where is the bullet now?" problem in an autoloader. Red dots zeroed for 50 yards take 2" barrels a lot further than we're used to. The J frame suddenly becomes a church shooter CNS hit from the other end of the sanctuary. Revolvers are an intuitive action for a noob, and require little maintenance. Throwing on a light & a red dot somewhat negates the maintenance advantage, but it certainly extends the effective range and makes a J frame much easier to get hits with. My response to women who complain that a gun is too big - ma'am, you can always take yer fella purse shopping & get a bigger purse. Purse carry for a primary may not be ideal, but it is one of the few advantages revolvers still maintain. What's that flat fiber optic/translucent polymer sight that kinda works like a red dot? That might be ideal for mounting on top of a J frame. No batteries needed. The whole problem is hit probability. The RDS would definitely help, but sighting is only one part of getting hits with a handgun. The RDS does nothing for recoil control and mastering the trigger. Most people with little experience and/or weak hands need more gun to hold on to and a lighter/shorter trigger (more frame weight helps a lot too too). Once they are proficient with a bigger gun, then move to the subcompact and start all over again. But everyone trys to shortcut that and go right to the subcompacts for easy carry. Now you're just a liability with a gun. I agree that a RDS isn't going to solve the long DA trigger pull, but if you're taking a shot at 50 yds you have time to cock the hammer. For 5 yds and under, I think most folks can hit the silhouette w/ wadcutters from a steel framed snub w/ very little training. Start expecting them to make 20 yd COM hits with one and they'll need training and practice - or a red dot & SA. Even with the huge disparity between poi/poa I was going6/6 at 50 yards DA shooting magnums on a 10x12 plate |
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