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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 5:06:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Edward82]
I’ve owned 3 HK USP’s, 2 P30’s and a P2000. I see USP’s all the time for $900 used, and P30’s new for $650. What is the deal with this crazy premium over guns that have better ergonomics, higher magazine capacity, equal reliability and infinitely better triggers?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 5:32:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Edward82: I’ve owned 3 HK USP’s, 2 P30’s and a P2000. I see USP’s all the time for $900 used, and P30’s new for $650. What is the deal with this crazy premium over guns that have better ergonomics, higher magazine capacity, equal reliability and infinitely better triggers? When you find out, let me know too. They’re average guns that come with stupid prices. No different than B&T guns. Average performing blowback PCC’s with asinine price tags because “mUh sWiSs mAdE”. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 5:42:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Because HK hates you
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 5:42:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Don't quote me, but I'm guessing the fact that it's an "HK" USP is the reason.
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Posted: 9/18/2024 5:44:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CarlosC]
[#4]
You already know why...Wenn Sie sich unsere Waffen nicht leisten können, nicht einmal gebrauchte Waffen, sind Sie arm und wir hassen Sie.*
*When you cannot afford our guns, even used guns, you are poor and we hate you. 
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Posted: 9/18/2024 5:45:21 PM EDT
[#5]
I've often suspected HK prices items higher if they do only limited runs of them, or even to sort of disincentivize people from buying them vs. their newer, mainline options where they want to focus their sales.
Same with the MP5/SP5. I think HK would love to finally put that design to rest if they could, but there's enough demand still there so they make them, but you gotta pay. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 6:03:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Priced a new Mercedes lately...?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 6:08:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By osprey21: Priced a new Mercedes lately...? Talk about another overrated and over complicated product. Absolutely inferior to products half its price. Just like the USP. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 6:57:01 PM EDT
[#8]
They aren't expensive. They're low to mid priced guns.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 6:58:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Edward82]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By akethan: They aren't expensive. They're low to mid priced guns. For the polymer style of gun they are, they are at the top of the pricing list. If a $900 USP is low priced, Guess a $500 Glock is cheap and a $250 Taurus is basically free? Even Warren Buffett doesn’t use money that loosely. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 8:20:52 PM EDT
[#10]
It’s a low production item that’s more difficult to make than their modern guns.
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Posted: 9/18/2024 8:41:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Edward82: For the polymer style of gun they are, they are at the top of the pricing list. If a $900 USP is low priced, Guess a $500 Glock is cheap and a $250 Taurus is basically free? Even Warren Buffett doesn’t use money that loosely. How do you feel about the MK23? |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 8:56:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Edward82: For the polymer style of gun they are, they are at the top of the pricing list. If a $900 USP is low priced, Guess a $500 Glock is cheap and a $250 Taurus is basically free? Even Warren Buffett doesn’t use money that loosely. By that measure, what makes a Glock worth twice as much as a Taurus? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 9:07:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: By that measure, what makes a Glock worth twice as much as a Taurus? I would say track history, military adoption, aftermarket support, cheaper mags, abundance of holsters, superior slide finish(holds up much better IMHO). Taurus is trying to close that gap, as their quality has gotten much better over the past 10 years. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 9:09:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By akethan: How do you feel about the MK23? I’ve honestly never handled one. Just from looking at it online over the years, it was always too large for any need or desire I’d have. With most of the Elite Forces choosing 1911’s, Sigs and Glocks over it, made me feel it was very mission dependent, or not particularly cared for. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 9:12:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Supply and demand?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 9:24:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killingmachine123: Supply and demand? Good suggestion and possibly the truth behind it. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 10:11:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Simple.
People will pay that for it. When people aren't willing to pay that price, the price will be lowered. It will be phased out of production when sales are too slow, or, when the price must be dropped low enough in relation to the cost of manufacture that production isn't sustainable. |
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Posted: 9/19/2024 10:44:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: It’s a low production item that’s more difficult to make than their modern guns. This is the answer HK makes them in runs or by request for big orders for mil/le. I am not so sure it is a difficult pistol to make and CZ makes a comparable pistol line for much less (P-09/07). I think it boils down to it probably cost a good amount of money for HK to tool up for a USP when they are making VP or P30 type pistols and then importation is wacky from Germany to the US. All of that it entirely supply and demand and while there is a demand for the pistol it is more a specialized demand because the USP does not sell on the same level as the Glock/M&P/P320. When they are supplied the amount out there is rather low and get scooped up quickly. If HK wanted to get the price down they could saturate the market with massive runs but then you would see tons of USP pistols just sitting on the shelf because everyone who wants one would buy. So honestly HK has a brilliant business model around the USP make just enough to sell everything and sit on no inventory. When the market is dry make another batch and sell everything again or if HK has to tool up to make a LE/Mil run make an excess to sell to the open market which is what I bet they do. |
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Posted: 9/19/2024 10:56:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Edward82: For the polymer style of gun they are, they are at the top of the pricing list. If a $900 USP is low priced, Guess a $500 Glock is cheap and a $250 Taurus is basically free? Even Warren Buffett doesn’t use money that loosely. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Edward82: Originally Posted By akethan: They aren't expensive. They're low to mid priced guns. For the polymer style of gun they are, they are at the top of the pricing list. If a $900 USP is low priced, Guess a $500 Glock is cheap and a $250 Taurus is basically free? Even Warren Buffett doesn’t use money that loosely. I paid $650 for my USP in 2010. $500 for a Glock 26 in 2011. The difference in quality and performance for me was worth that price difference and more. However at $900 that prices me out and I wouldn’t own one. Guessing import duties make them more than necessary too. Marshall and Diezel guitar amps are half price nearly overseas vs here. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2024 12:58:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Because you suck and H&K hates you!
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Posted: 9/19/2024 1:25:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: This is the answer HK makes them in runs or by request for big orders for mil/le. I am not so sure it is a difficult pistol to make and CZ makes a comparable pistol line for much less (P-09/07). I think it boils down to it probably cost a good amount of money for HK to tool up for a USP when they are making VP or P30 type pistols and then importation is wacky from Germany to the US. All of that it entirely supply and demand and while there is a demand for the pistol it is more a specialized demand because the USP does not sell on the same level as the Glock/M&P/P320. When they are supplied the amount out there is rather low and get scooped up quickly. If HK wanted to get the price down they could saturate the market with massive runs but then you would see tons of USP pistols just sitting on the shelf because everyone who wants one would buy. So honestly HK has a brilliant business model around the USP make just enough to sell everything and sit on no inventory. When the market is dry make another batch and sell everything again or if HK has to tool up to make a LE/Mil run make an excess to sell to the open market which is what I bet they do. I don't know that their overall business model has been such a good idea. They had to be sold off to a Brit company in 1990 due to financial problems. In 2012, their Moody rating dropped because of cashflow problems where they were barely able to meet operating costs and interest payments. In 2018, they were audited and red flagged because of a lack of liquidity that could lead to bankruptcy. They've had a history of cashflow problems. They should have set up shop on the US long ago. The recent big announcement for HK USA and commitment to US sales (hopefully inclined toward civilians) may fix that finally. In their defense however, their problems were partly a result of German politics on weapons sales. One thing about HK that no one can question is their commitment to innovation. |
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Posted: 9/19/2024 1:58:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Overpriced and overhyped
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2024 2:31:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blacktoothgrin: Overpriced and overhyped I agree. After owning several, and shooting many, I just can’t find anything that justifies the smug mentality or the upcharge. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2024 3:04:10 PM EDT
[#24]
They work, and work, and work, and work. A lot of gun owners will never get to the point where they need to change springs in a regular firearm let alone the USP. The gun was made for people fighting, to a civilian it goes far above the call of duty. But hey if you ever get a squib fire the next shot. Plus USP's in .45 can also shoot .45 super without changing anything in the firearm!
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2024 4:29:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BossV: Plus USP's in .45 can also shoot .45 super without changing anything in the firearm! No shit? Seriously? Well now, that's really interesting. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2024 5:19:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JohnnyLoco]
[#26]
The usp was always expensive but their new price increases are crazy. Probably something to do with being made in Germany. You can find a HK45c for $700 or less, made in USA, many improvements over the usp 45, but the usp compact .45 is I think $1100 plus retail new.
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Posted: 9/19/2024 6:35:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blacktoothgrin: Overpriced and overhyped Show me another gun that can shoot 300,000 rounds with only replacing springs. Show me another pistol that use of +p+ doesn’t void the warranty. Show me another 45 that can handle 45 Super out of the box. The USP is a solid case for being the most durable handgun ever made. Whether you need that or not is your choice, but it’s not something you can logically discredit. As mentioned above USP’s are only made when invoiced by request. They also have to obtain a release from the German military for every shipment due to Germany owning the production rights, meaning they also probably have to pay Germany in addition to getting permission. Germany owns production rights to all of their military issue firearms and politicians and military leaders have to sign off on HK selling “their” technology. |
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Posted: 9/19/2024 9:40:25 PM EDT
[#28]
HK fanbois make me chuckle.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2024 9:41:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: HK fanbois make me chuckle. They are devout. |
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Posted: 9/19/2024 9:55:00 PM EDT
[#30]
USP Best P
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Posted: 9/19/2024 11:55:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Edward82: They are devout. So why did you start the thread? You say a Glock is worth twice as much as a Taurus, but you think Glock is somehow the cap for pistol production costs? Or is this just some kind of copium, like when Taurus owners try to say Glock people are overpaying? The reality is your bank account dictates your purchases. I have pistols from HK, Sig, Glock, Springfield, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, etc. You don’t see me getting super serious and telling guys who bought Nighthawks they should have bought a Tisas or Springfield. Shoot what you have and be happy. You don’t need the internet to validate your guns for you. Your targets, timers, or smiles should do that. Otherwise why bother trying to start drama over a gun you don’t even own. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2024 8:22:34 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: So why did you start the thread? You say a Glock is worth twice as much as a Taurus, but you think Glock is somehow the cap for pistol production costs? Or is this just some kind of copium, like when Taurus owners try to say Glock people are overpaying? The reality is your bank account dictates your purchases. I have pistols from HK, Sig, Glock, Springfield, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, etc. You don’t see me getting super serious and telling guys who bought Nighthawks they should have bought a Tisas or Springfield. Shoot what you have and be happy. You don’t need the internet to validate your guns for you. Your targets, timers, or smiles should do that. Otherwise why bother trying to start drama over a gun you don’t even own. Wow. Thanks for proving my point. |
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Posted: 9/20/2024 8:33:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Edward82: Wow. Thanks for proving my point. You asked why the USP was more expensive than other HK’s. It was explained to you, and then you started calling people fan boys for explaining it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2024 8:50:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BabaYaga22]
[#34]
I love my USP, it’s my EDC. I shoot them better than Glocks which I also own.
I own Glocks, Berettas, XDs, M&Ps, and the HK USP I just love the USP the most out of them. I’m about to take it to a 2 day pistol class next month also. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2024 8:58:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Edward82]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: You asked why the USP was more expensive than other HK’s. It was explained to you, and then you started calling people fan boys for explaining it. Incorrect. If you look back, I told one poster he was probably correct that it was supply and demand. Another poster said he just loves HK fanboys, to which I replied “They are devout”. This is not bashing, as a lot of fanboys are devout, whether it be Chevy, Ford, Glock, etc. At this point is when you felt the need to post telling me how ridiculous I was and how I was just here to troll. I feel if you reread my post above, I haven’t bashed anyone or made any claims that one pistol is the cap for production. I started this out of genuine curiosity as to why the USP cost more than the HK45, CZ hammer fired, Beretta hammer fired, and all other polymer equivalent pistols. I dont come here for validation or anything else, as I have owned numerous of almost every polymer gun made and kept what I preferred. |
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Posted: 9/20/2024 9:33:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: You asked why the USP was more expensive than other HK’s. It was explained to you, and then you started calling people fan boys for explaining it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By Edward82: Wow. Thanks for proving my point. You asked why the USP was more expensive than other HK’s. It was explained to you, and then you started calling people fan boys for explaining it. Haters gonna hate  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/20/2024 10:56:32 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 9/21/2024 1:43:01 PM EDT
[#38]
I keep coming back to my USPC 9mm for EDC. Tried the P30SK lem for a bit but the usp is a better shooter in my opinion. Loved my uspc so much I bought another used uspc two tone in .40 for less than $450.
I have to add though, the FN 509ct with the Apex flat trigger is my #1. That pistol knocked my uspc to second in line. |
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Posted: 9/21/2024 2:38:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: You asked why the USP was more expensive than other HK’s. It was explained to you, and then you started calling people fan boys for explaining it. It's a GD thread in a tech forum. Just trolling or retarded. 
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Posted: 9/21/2024 3:25:01 PM EDT
[#40]
It damn sure ain't for the trigger.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2024 3:32:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Edward82]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By akethan: It's a GD thread in a tech forum. Just trolling or retarded. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14209/20221106_103624-2605250.jpg Why so sensitive? Feelings must be hurt for you to start insults. Tells me a lot about you. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2024 3:33:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: It damn sure ain't for the trigger. This is true. |
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Posted: 9/21/2024 5:31:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Maybe if people quit buying them the price would go down or they would quit making them and mine would go up in value.
 Funny how that works and is lost on some people. |
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Posted: 9/21/2024 7:18:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Finslayer83]
[#44]
USPc Lite LEM with grey guns SRS has replaced the G19 in my inventory.
Excellent shooter.  ETA: I happen to have a Spare 2022 USPc V1 just sitting, I got it for a deal and would let it go for one. |
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Posted: 9/21/2024 8:18:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: It damn sure ain't for the trigger. Mine has a good trigger, make solid hits out to 50 yards with it |
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Posted: 9/21/2024 8:20:11 PM EDT
[#46]
HK learned from the German car industry. When they released the P7 to the US market, it was actually cheaper than the Beretta 92. They didn't sell. So, they raised the price and advertised it as a luxury item. It sold. That's been their marketing strategy since then.
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Posted: 9/21/2024 8:20:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: By that measure, what makes a Glock worth twice as much as a Taurus? |
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Posted: 9/21/2024 8:27:00 PM EDT
[#48]
No .40 S&W, no care. I like my USP and USP Compact in the proper chambering of .40 S&W.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2024 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: HK learned from the German car industry. When they released the P7 to the US market, it was actually cheaper than the Beretta 92. They didn't sell. So, they raised the price and advertised it as a luxury item. It sold. That's been their marketing strategy since then. Very interesting, thanks for sharing. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2024 11:24:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: HK learned from the German car industry. When they released the P7 to the US market, it was actually cheaper than the Beretta 92. They didn't sell. So, they raised the price and advertised it as a luxury item. It sold. That's been their marketing strategy since then. Christ, HK really do hate us... |
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