This came across the VCDL facebook page. Of course, I've never heard of the place but there's no reason to not name and shame an anti-gun gun shop.

That can't be real...

If the E-mail response indeed was authored by Rick Baker, something which has not been incontrovertibly established, but seems to be reasonable to suppose ...

... well, Fudds making money off of gun-owners and 2A-defenders is a topic that comes up in this forum too frequently.  Sometimes their station-in-life shifts a little after they reveal just what a Fudd they are, however, as Zumbo's crash-and-burn exemplified.  Sometimes their decline is more gradual, such has proven to be the case with the Marquez family and SEG.

... and Baker's preoccupation with the penis length of complete strangers, indicates he is likely a Libtard.  Maybe he can franchise his bait-shop into Silver Eagle South ...

That shop has decent prices. AR15's just shy of three grand. good deals on sks's as well they run 600 lol

Just came to post this.  Glad I looked first.  

I just called.  Guy who answered would not give his name or tell me their policy.  Did say that there is no such sign on his door.

ETA: The guy was either a dick or is having a bad day

I hate to be "that guy" but that response is hilarious.

There was when a member posted a pic of it on facebook.

As of a few minutes ago!

Eric Baker
Ed Levine, it has come to my attention that you have apparently slandered the business "Absolutely Outdoors" in an effort to get your message out concerning concealed carry. I have never had a bad experience in the store or with the owner. After reading your email, and at least 20 other emails from random people, I am disgusted with your way of handling things. Let's analyze the situation for a minute. The sign reads "No loaded firearms inside store except law enforcement".... now ask yourself, does this say anywhere "No concealed carry firearms or knives"? You being the "head honcho" of VA concealed carry, you should know the importance of safely handling firearms is a huge deal. I will give you an example, let's say an old woman with no knowledge of firearms acquires her passed husband's firearms. She has no knowledge about them nor does she have a use for them, so she decides to sell them. She comes into the store with them and drops one on the floor discharging the firearm into a customer right next to her killing the innocent bystander who had no idea. That is clearly what the sign is for, not to pick on people who have concealed carry permits. Now let's get to how you handle things. I have seen kindergartners handle things more maturely than you have. Basically you said "If this sign says what I'm hearing it says, I'm going to put your business down on social media because it makes me unhappy" essentially this is commonly referred to as cyber bullying. If you lack the mental capacity to restrain yourself from acting like a 3 year old.. you shouldn't be handling firearms nor being the head of the VA concealed carry. You should be ashamed of yourself.

This guy is bad at logic.

And other gun and outdoors stores I've been to often say "No loaded firearms" and then have a note that it doesn't apply to CHL holders or cops.

So then the sign should read "no loaded firearms we can see"

Or maybe they mean you can open carry, but can't have the gun loaded.  You know, like Barney Fife.  

IN!

Anybody wanna post contact info for this store... my google be broke

Pic on VCDL website...







http://abowarehouse.gunsamerica.com/Home.htm



Monday - Friday: 10am to 7pm


            Saturday:  7am to 7pm


              Sunday:  7am to 1pm


Call Today


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[email protected]

I decided to swing in to Absolutely Outdoors about a year ago just to check them out.  First thing I noticed was the sign on the door, that didn't make a good first impression.  Talked briefly with an old guy behind the counter.  Asked what transfer fees were.  He replied, "$50 for transfers, but $80 for AR-15 lowers OR UPPERS".  When I asked why the higher fee on AR-15s, he replied, "because of the extra responsibility".  Inventory was sparse, old, dusty and way overpriced.  I have never and will never set foot into that store again unless it dramatically changes (unlikely).

FWIW I like Green Top and VA Arms.

Pretty much.   Insanely high prices.  Concealed means concealed.

Meh, Fudds are gonna Fudd. Doesn't sound like the kind of place I'd ever go anyway.

Levine's inquiry could have been more tactful and less power trippy.

That being said, Baker's response is totally unwarranted. If that's his idea of community relations, he needs to learn some tough economic lessons.

Sooo, I guess "No loaded firearms inside the store" doesn't actually apply to bringing loaded firearms inside the store? Maybe I'm just reading too far into it? I no longer know what to do at a stop sign...

It would be libel, and the defense of such an accusation is the truth.  The sign is written in plain english.  The response is written in plainly worded vernacular as well.

Slander
verb
verb: slander; 3rd person present: slanders; past tense: slandered; past participle: slandered; gerund or present participle: slandering

   1.
   make false and damaging statements about (someone).
   "they were accused of slandering the head of state"

What part of the statement is false? I'm failing to see where Mr Shop Owner Man is proving his case.


RE: The "old lady" rebuttal, it's the classic Chewbacca Defense. How would the sign help an old lady that knows so little to tell if a gun was loaded or not to know that the gun was loaded so she shouldn't bring it in against their policy? As with Wookies, Ewoks, and the forest moon of Endor, it makes no sense.

So, how is a person who is ignorant of the workings of a firearm supposed to know that the firearm is unloaded?  I really kinda wish I could talk to this guy as this conversation would be absolutely hilarious to get a bit of cross examination trolling on.  

Its also somewhat comical to see someone accuse another of "slander" and then proceed to engage in name calling and other hyperbole...

Paraphrased to this particular instance, "If the bullet does not fit, you must acquit!"  

Obviously, the sign means, "Concealed Carry is encouraged, as long as you don't have any bullets in it!"  

The owner's logic escapes me, entirely.


ETA: Isn't accusing someone of slander, a precursor to,  ummmm ..........slander?

Couldn't have said it any better

If I lived closer I'd drive over with a stack of VCDL flyers and ask if it was ok to leave them on the counter.

$80 dollar transfer on uppers is the best price I've seen in a while! I might have to place an order...

His shop his rules. Either you believe in private property rights or you don't.

I don't see anyone getting all butt-hurt over nearly every gun show in the state having a no loaded firearms sign at the entrance. Funny that, they line-up to get in and there's usually a VCDL table set-up. I guess it's just fine at those venues.

I'm a VCDL member and I can read a sign and make up my own damn mind if I want to shop there and to be honest I'm not donating to the VCDL to have them attacking private property rights. Stick with the public issues.

In this case the VCDL comes off looking like just as big a dick as the shop owner IMHO. Sometimes the VCDL gets a little to big for their britches.  

Hhhmmm.

So VCDL's sentiments are as off-putting as Rick Baker's words, quoted again below?


Over the years there's been much discussion about gun stores/ranges in the Commonwealth implementing a 'no loaded firearms on the premises' policy which exempts LEOs.  To my recall, Sharpshooters is a shop/range here in NoVa that has such a policy, purportedly implemented after a negligent discharge by a 'customer' ... but also attributed to provisions of their insurance coverage.

The idea that this 'no loaded firearms' stance is based on 'safety' is ludicrous, because it requires those otherwise lawfully carrying firearms, to remove the firearm from its holster, unload the gun (generally ejecting the magazine, followed by slide manipulation to unload the chambered round), and then re-stow the items.  After leaving the establishment, the individual then has to reverse the steps.  All of this gun-handling provides more opportunities for a negligent discharge to occur, than just letting the gun remain in its holster throughout.

I do not recall, however, any condemnation of such establishments ... most simply obey the policy, avoid the establishment, or ignore the stricture.  In the case of the latter, some wags point out that 'concealed means concealed.'

Rick Baker's ad hominem attacks/insults are beyond the pale, however, and prove he's every bit the Fudd that Zumbo was/is.  If Baker wants to be a Fudd, fine.  That's his choice.  If he want's to be rude and offensive to someone who represents an organization comprised of Baker's potential customers, that's his choice as well.  This could prove to be inimical to his business goals, however.

I've noticed that Libtards seem to go straight to the penis size argument when attacking the RKBA (see, for example, this post at a NoVa-local version of Democrat Underground ... called Fairfax Underground).  For this reason, I won't speculate about the 'dick-ness' of either party.

IMO Rick Baker showed he's a classless, boor of a store-owner ... one of the hallmarks of establishments I avoid.

Well when you write to ask a question concerning a gun shop's policy it not might be a good idea to start this off by saying (if you expect a reasoned response) this:

"Hi -

Someone told me that you guys have a sign on your door that prohibits the lawful carry of firearms by customers (unless they are law enforcement).

I just wanted to confirm that before I put the word out to 30,000 Virginia gun owners.

Thanks,

Ed Levine "



I mean WTF.

To add insult to injury Mr. Levine was going on second-hand member info and instead of discussing with Mr. Baker his policy FTF or over the phone chose instead to threaten to "Zumbo" Mr. Baker right off the bat.

I suspect Mr. Baker knew he was going to get smeared by Mr. Levine any way it went so I guess he made his (unartful to be sure) response to the threat worth his while.

His is a shitty store policy for sure but Levine damn sure kicked things off on the wrong foot.

I'll tell you straight-up if I received a thinly veiled threat like that how I would have responded to Mr. Levine would not pass for flowers either. Some ass-bag that tries to take food off my table by threating to smear me is going to get a ear full and much more.

Were I Mr. Baker I'd pursue legal recourse against Mr. Levine personally. Baker did nothing more than exercise his property rights the way he sees fit and his reasons for doing so mean nothing. His shop, his rules.

Let me know how that suit goes...  

The shop owners unprofessional response did more to escalate this than levine sending a message out to the VCDL would have done.  I'm sure Mr. Levine's notice would have riled a few folks up, but the ad hominem attacks here just threw gasoline on what would have been a small ember.  

If you hold yourself open to the the public to do business and put restrictions on how you do business, sooner or later you're going to be asked about those restrictions.  At that point you have the option to either respond in a professional or measured way or hope you're good enough at what you do to afford to lose customers for being abrasive.  Some places can be abrasive and survive, others are measured and professional.  That is the business owners choice, and the business owner buys the consequences of their actions.  

Herein, the business owner bought the consequences of his ad hominem attacks.  Whether you think he was baited or goaded into it, the shop owner hit send on that email.  His "choose your own adventure story" isn't going the way he wanted it to go, but you can not ignore the fact that his own choice put him where he's at.  While I will support his ability to choose how he runs his business, I cannot support or condone the character he's shown by how he decided to explain his decisions.  

Good luck putting food on your table when your own actions drive away customers...

1srelluc, your advocacy for Mr. Baker is reasonable and for the most part balanced.  Except ...


I introduced the term "Zumbo" into this conversation.  I used "Zumbo" as a proper noun ... not as a generic term.  (The colloquial meanings of the word as a generic term can be found here, at the Urban Dictionary.  Your usage, 1srelluc, appears to be to use the word as a verb, i.e., 'to Zumbo.'  Not sure of the word's meaning as a verb ...

... but "Zumbo" was certainly never brought up by Mr. Levine.  That was just yours truly.  And I was referring to the Outdoor Life writer named Zumbo, who 'outed' himself as a Fudd in his own writing.  It still is mind-boggling to me that some believe auto-loading rifles are in and of themselves evil, if they are black in color and have a pistol grip.  But that's another matter entirely. (Although Gadsden1776's comment certainly bears out my initial introduction of Zumbo to the discussion, "When I asked why the higher fee on AR-15s, he replied, 'because of the extra responsibility'.")

Until Mr. Baker weighs in here, I will be content to wonder about his ability to successfully predict the future -- i.e., your suspicion, 1srelluc, that Mr. Baker believed he "was going to get smeared by Mr. Levine any way."  I suspect that Mr. Baker's thoughts were elsewhere, when he wrote his E-mail.

Is anybody else curious what paperwork this place claims to do when transferring an upper?

Wordsmith it any way you want but the bottom line is Levine sent Baker a implied threat then held Baker's response up like some trophy when Baker "went off" on him. Levine just wanted to start shit and succeeded in goading Baker into a crass response so he would have something to post. What a dick.

The part that concerns me more than the tiff between those two ass-clowns is that the good name of the VCDL and other .orgs that Levine name-dropped are tarnished by his actions. He is not someone I would want to represent me. People like Levine cheapen the 2A .orgs they are associated with.

Heavy-handed tactics against our elected officials that seek to take away or minimize our 2A rights is one thing but doing the same to a man trying to run his business the way he wants to just goes against my grain and I certainly don't want to see such ass-hattery on the VCDL's site. I'm not donating to them for them to go out and harass private businesses.

By all means if you don't care for Baker's shop, carry policy, or anything else then feel free not to go there and spend your money but a man should be left alone to conduct his business as he sees fit.

I will transfer any upper, any color for $29.95 “Earl Scheib”

Honestly, that reply by Baker looks like something you 'd see from one of our less intelligent members in a Pit thread.  

I've never been to that shop, and never need to go to New Kent County.  However if I did, I think that reply reflects the sort of business I would rather avoid.  It is shockingly unprofessional.  If he'd just left it at a simple "yes, that's our policy" I'd have much less of a problem with it - I may consider it shortsighted and illogical, but his business his rules, and if I was in the area and really needed something I'd put up with it.  This attitude... not so much.

Here is the official VCDL comment on this issue...

A VCDL member brought to our attention a “No loaded guns” sign on the door of Absolute Outdoors in New Kent.  EM Ed Levine sent them an email to confirm that policy.

First, let me say that many gun stores have a “no loaded guns” policy.  That’s because, unlike pretty much any other public place around, people are actually drawing guns and handling them in a gun store.  That said, many stores have a better policy of saying that a person can have a holstered, loaded handgun as long as the gun never leaves the holster while the owner is in the store.

So, if the “no loaded guns” was indeed Absolute Outdoors's policy, it wouldn’t be the best policy, but it wouldn’t be uncommon for such a business.

However, the response Ed got back was, well, unbelievable and uncalled for.

We report, you decide.

Here is Ed’s email to Absolute Outdoors:

On Jun 30, 2014 10:04 AM, <Ed> wrote:

Hi -

Someone told me that you guys have a sign on your door that prohibits the lawful carry of firearms by customers (unless they are law enforcement).  [PVC:  Here I will note that Ed should have said “...the lawful carry of a LOADED firearm by customers…”  However, this would have been a good opportunity for the gun store to set the record straight.]

I just wanted to confirm that before I put the word out to 30,000 Virginia gun owners.

Thanks,

Ed Levine
Founder - Virginia Open Carry
Executive Member - Virginia Citizens Defense League
NRA - Life member and Instructor
GOA - member

—

The response back to Ed:

In a message dated 6/30/2014 11:16:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

You need to add to your list of titles:

Loser
Idiot
In desperate need of a life
life long member of the tiny dick club
Just plain stupid
Now that better describes you.
Rick Baker, owner
I'm usually there everyday so you should drop by and see me little man.

—

Sounds like Sarah Brady wrote that clever response to Ed.  Ed was in the Marines, so I’m not so sure that the “little man” thing fits him very well.  
There are lots of gun stores out there and I know that I, for one, won’t be headed to Absolute Outdoors anytime soon.  I’ll be spending my money with gun dealers that treat gun owners in a friendly and respectful manner.  There are plenty of them out there.

It would be interesting to see what the shop owner's response would have been had Levine not put some 500 pound gorilla herp in his derp.
But, since it's there, we'll never know.
Is an "executive member" of VCDL an officer in the organization, or is that a membership level kind of thing?

^this. It was loaded question intended to intimidate. The owner's response was childish, but I know I wouldn't have responded well to a not-so-veiled threat.

Thinking we should post this on GD with their phone and email, and let GD blow them up.

If he is truly charging people for transferring an upper under the guise of law he needs to be reported to the BBB and law enforcement for fraud. I don't give a fuck about his attitude but if he's ripping people off he needs to be shutdown and thrown in jail.

Well... I guess someone (with a friend in another state who has a spare upper) should have an upper 'transferred' through there.



-Warren-

+ 1000. One could give them the benefit of the doubt and say "Well, the counter guy is ill-informed and misspoke" - but in the
context of the other drama and info, it's unlikely.

Lotta noobs got into shooting in the last few years or so - a pretty penny might have been made from 'transferring' uppers for
people who didn't know any better. I feel bad for them, but at least one of them might have noticed that uppers don't have
serial numbers...  

-Warren-

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln

He did not just step in it, he jumped in with both feet.

I am an Executive Member of VCDL.

We are not officers of the organization.

It is one step above a normal membership and is usually given to people who go above and beyond for the organization.

Thank you for the information, Bulldog.
With actions like this one and another political incident last fall, I am lowering my VCDL membership a level, as Executive Member Levine's actions certainly do not reflect well on me.
I'll find another gun group in VA to support financially.

LOL Party-pooper!