Posted: 1/17/2024 1:44:08 PM EDT
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So I was surprised to see there is no topic about the horrible fire that swept through Lahaina last year. We are heading to Maui in 6 months. The last overhead satellite image I saw of Lahaina indicates that at least 50-60% of structures in the Lahaina area have been destroyed. I don't imagine much progress rebuilding will have been made by July 2024. We are staying in Kaanapali, so a mile or so N of the burn area. |
Proud millennial.
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Originally Posted By djkest: So I was surprised to see there is no topic about the horrible fire that swept through Lahaina last year. We are heading to Maui in 6 months. The last overhead satellite image I saw of Lahaina indicates that at least 50-60% of structures in the Lahaina area have been destroyed. I don't imagine much progress rebuilding will have been made by July 2024. We are staying in Kaanapali, so a mile or so N of the burn area. Clean up is still going on to remove hazardous materials. |
Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.
Robert A. Heinlein
Robert A. Heinlein
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Originally Posted By supercomp: Kaanapali and everything north of there are fine A very few businesses in Lahaina town escaped the fire and are slowy reopening Entry to the burn area is still restricted to residents and they have just started to clear the burn debris Yes, we are staying in Kaanapali. It's kind of sad how slowly everything is moving (for residents and for visitors), but I shouldn't be surprised. Hawaii has never been "efficient" about anything. We are going to try and patronize Lahaina businesses if we can. Attached File Attached File |
Proud millennial.
| Please be respectful of everyone on the westside that helps you, the hotel staff, servers, store clerks, etc. everyone has been affected by the fire, they have lost loved one, lost their homes, lost their jobs, people that live outside of the burn zone have suffered also. Everyone one of them is trying to keep it together and move forward as best they can, and the one complaint they have is tourists asking them ether out of genuine concern or just being nosy if they were affected by the fire all damn day, every day and it getting old. |
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Originally Posted By supercomp: Please be respectful of everyone on the westside that helps you, the hotel staff, servers, store clerks, etc. everyone has been affected by the fire, they have lost loved one, lost their homes, lost their jobs, people that live outside of the burn zone have suffered also. Everyone one of them is trying to keep it together and move forward as best they can, and the one complaint they have is tourists asking them ether out of genuine concern or just being nosy if they were affected by the fire all damn day, every day and it getting old. Yep, I already heard about it, and seen the discussions done to exhaustion. Last time we were there, we took a snorkel cruise out of Lahaina harbor. We plan to do so again, and it appears they are open for business. However, the docks are right in the middle of the burn zone, so I will have to contact the company and see what they recommend. |
Proud millennial.
| Whatever you do, don't take Redline out of Kihei. They do a lame ass shallow snorkel within swimming distance of the boat ramp. Nice folks but a rip off. |
Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.
Robert A. Heinlein
Robert A. Heinlein
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Originally Posted By djkest: We will be using Ultimate Whale Watch & Snorkel. We used them last time and loved it. After the Lahaina fire, they spent over a month shuttling food and supplies from Kihei to Lahaina. (Although they did get a grant to pay for gas) It was amazing how the entire island and eventually the entire state pulled together to get supplies to Lahaina, the day after the fire all the major retailer had a run on bottled water, non perishable food, toilet paper, diapers etc. that all went to collection sites for the west Maui relief. The main road into Lahaina was closed for weeks and the only way in was helicopter, boat or drive on the goat trail they call a highway thru kauhakuloa. The one thing about the relief effort that I wonder about is why didn’t the governor ask for help from the military, Pearl is 100 miles away, so is Hickam, Schofield barracks and Kaneohe Bay Marine corp air station. An amphibious assault ship loaded with relief supplies parked off Lahaina would have been a welcome sight, chinooks over fly Maui all the time, why didn’t they use those to fly in supplies. |
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Originally Posted By supercomp: It was amazing how the entire island and eventually the entire state pulled together to get supplies to Lahaina, the day after the fire all the major retailer had a run on bottled water, non perishable food, toilet paper, diapers etc. that all went to collection sites for the west Maui relief. The main road into Lahaina was closed for weeks and the only way in was helicopter, boat or drive on the goat trail they call a highway thru kauhakuloa. The one thing about the relief effort that I wonder about is why didn’t the governor ask for help from the military, Pearl is 100 miles away, so is Hickam, Schofield barracks and Kaneohe Bay Marine corp air station. An amphibious assault ship loaded with relief supplies parked off Lahaina would have been a welcome sight, chinooks over fly Maui all the time, why didn’t they use those to fly in supplies. Hawaii Army National Guard has a unit with Chinooks and they weren't used either. |
Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.
Robert A. Heinlein
Robert A. Heinlein
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Originally Posted By supercomp: It was amazing how the entire island and eventually the entire state pulled together to get supplies to Lahaina, the day after the fire all the major retailer had a run on bottled water, non perishable food, toilet paper, diapers etc. that all went to collection sites for the west Maui relief. The main road into Lahaina was closed for weeks and the only way in was helicopter, boat or drive on the goat trail they call a highway thru kauhakuloa. The one thing about the relief effort that I wonder about is why didn’t the governor ask for help from the military, Pearl is 100 miles away, so is Hickam, Schofield barracks and Kaneohe Bay Marine corp air station. An amphibious assault ship loaded with relief supplies parked off Lahaina would have been a welcome sight, chinooks over fly Maui all the time, why didn’t they use those to fly in supplies. Yeah. Here's the thing about the military too and especially the National Guard. Relief efforts like these are actually great training as well. Pilots get flight hours and get to run missions. Logistics guys get to actually do something. It would have been so easy to get the National Guard to help. That is what the National Guard is for! When I was in the national guard our Governor called us up to help with wildfires. We brought the firefighers food, water, and medivac. They also used us to guard the airports after 9/11. I might be speaking out of turn here, but from THIS outsider's perspective, your leadership has failed you time and time again. I think some big changes should be made in the next few years. Again, I am just an outsider. Also Biden has spent enough on Ukraine to completely rebuild Lahaina 10x over. |
Proud millennial.
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Originally Posted By djkest: Yeah. Here's the thing about the military too and especially the National Guard. Relief efforts like these are actually great training as well. Pilots get flight hours and get to run missions. Logistics guys get to actually do something. It would have been so easy to get the National Guard to help. That is what the National Guard is for! When I was in the national guard our Governor called us up to help with wildfires. We brought the firefighers food, water, and medivac. They also used us to guard the airports after 9/11. I might be speaking out of turn here, but from THIS outsider's perspective, your leadership has failed you time and time again. I think some big changes should be made in the next few years. Again, I am just an outsider. Also Biden has spent enough on Ukraine to completely rebuild Lahaina 10x over. Agreed. Which is why I moved to NC last month after 38 years in Hawaii. That and the cost of living. |
Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.
Robert A. Heinlein
Robert A. Heinlein
| There were leadership failures everywhere, the moment the fire started Lahaina town was doomed. Lahaina was and still is surrounded by tall grass that dries out in the summer and burns like crazy. If they had just cut and maintained wide firebreak around the town that tragedy probably wouldn’t have happened. The really fuck up part is the same thing happened 5 years ago during hurricane Lane, the only difference was the wind blew the fire away from Lahaina town and burned a few houses. Instead of using it as a wake up call and work on prevention, they went back to business as usual. |
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My outside opinion on local politics is that many people seem to be more concerned with how Hawaiian candidates are and how long their family has been on the island rather than being a selfless and effective leader. Bonus points for Hawaiian name and very tan skin. Japanese is an acceptable substitute. Cultural nepotism. |
Proud millennial.
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Originally Posted By djkest: My outside opinion on local politics is that many people seem to be more concerned with how Hawaiian candidates are and how long their family has been on the island rather than being a selfless and effective leader. Bonus points for Hawaiian name and very tan skin. Japanese is an acceptable substitute. Cultural nepotism. A multi-syllabic last name ending in a vowel. Like Blangiardi |
an event "of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,"
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Not quite Hawaii politics is more based on your pedigree in the Democratic Party and not on who you know, but on who knows you Nepotism at its finest, nobody likes the high taxes, cost of living, the younger generation moving away for better opportunities and yet they keep voting the same dumbasses back in office. It’s so bad, we re-elected a congresswoman who was isolated in the hospital and “getting better” who died days after winning Yep we elected dead people |
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Originally Posted By supercomp: Not quite Hawaii politics is more based on your pedigree in the Democratic Party and not on who you know, but on who knows you Nepotism at its finest, nobody likes the high taxes, cost of living, the younger generation moving away for better opportunities and yet they keep voting the same dumbasses back in office. It’s so bad, we re-elected a congresswoman who was isolated in the hospital and “getting better” who died days after winning Yep we elected dead people Yep. Which is why I moved to the mainland in December when I retired. Multi-syllabic last name ending in a vowel: Abercrombie Neil got himself in trouble with the Dem party when he decided to run for governor instead of being appointed to Akaka's Senate role. Then he pissed off the teacher's union by saying they didn't need/deserve pay raises and now lives in exile in Manoa. |
an event "of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,"
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Originally Posted By supercomp: Not quite Hawaii politics is more based on your pedigree in the Democratic Party and not on who you know, but on who knows you Nepotism at its finest, nobody likes the high taxes, cost of living, the younger generation moving away for better opportunities and yet they keep voting the same dumbasses back in office. It’s so bad, we re-elected a congresswoman who was isolated in the hospital and “getting better” who died days after winning Yep we elected dead people @supercomp Need anything from the mainland? We will be there in about 3 weeks. I am also open to meeting up for a beer if you are interested. We'll be staying just N of Kaanapali but will drive around most of the Island. I hear Trader Joes can be a hot commodity. I extend the same offer to any other Arfcommers on Maui |
Proud millennial.
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Originally Posted By supercomp: The one thing about the relief effort that I wonder about is why didn’t the governor ask for help from the military, Pearl is 100 miles away, so is Hickam, Schofield barracks and Kaneohe Bay Marine corp air station. An amphibious assault ship loaded with relief supplies parked off Lahaina would have been a welcome sight, chinooks over fly Maui all the time, why didn’t they use those to fly in supplies. The Active Duty US Military can ONLY be used if ALL other resources are exhausted. It’s so the US Military doesn’t get tasked out for lack of emergency planning. We help when there are terrible disasters, not saying Lahaina wasn’t - but - all the emergency services within State of Hawaii and Local to Maui had it handled. Hawaii NEEDS to do better with disaster planning and appropriately resourcing their recovery services. Me personally: Lahaina recovery is taking a lot longer due to “hazardous materials” whereas ANY other State would have recovered by now. I believe the truth, is the County of Maui has to figure out how to revamp the building codes, as the requirement for anyone rebuilding will be updated sewer (they have to pay for to the mainline), water (paid for by the owner from the meter), foundations to 2024 code and removal of all the residue BEFORE anyone is allowed to rebuild their home - oh yeah - to 2024 building code meaning full insulation (no more single wall construction) framed home meeting current energy specs. Its a political shit show that has people displaced, their low premium cut-rate insurance will NOT cover rebuilding to 2024 with lacking building materials in ALL the islands, and not enough construction workers nor the ability to house the construction workers with Tourism in full swing. I bet many will settle and sell-out. |
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Just got back a couple days ago. The homeless problem has gotten a lot worse. Although some of the homeless we saw are a result of the Lahaina fire, I'd be willing to bet that most of it was not and they are using the fire as an excuse. Here's what we found: Parking was extremely challenging because there are abandoned cars parked at every public park, every wide spot in the road. I know tourists shouldn't take precedence over Hawaii residents, but some of the people there aren't making much of an effort. Hawaii is very permissive of abandoned vehicles apparently; there is no place to put them I guess. TRASH: There is trash everywhere. It must be a tropical island thing, but we saw piles of garbage, disabled vehicles, old furniture piled up everywhere. The "Hawaii / Lahaina strong" residents seem to be the worst. We saw one house across from the ocean in Kahana that has a small trash dump in their front yard. Honestly it's kind of infuriating, I know it's "Their land their rules" but these same people would blow a gasket if they saw a tourist accidentally drop an empty can. Piles of trash and junk are also fire hazards, obviously. The recent transplants (IE rich people) moving to the island seem to do a good job keeping their areas tidy but that's probably expected given the barrier to entry. We did see evidence of the fire (obviously) but the rebuilding is starting to kick into high gear. Lahaina will be different in 5 years. Better in some ways, worse in others. |
Proud millennial.
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I'm not sure what Lahaina will become. It was the Waikiki of Maui in the past and it could return. Or it could just be another small town. A lot of locals on Maui are anti tourists. And those that want tourists just jack up the taxes and fees on them making it prohibitively expensive for most tourists. Not sure about drastic rebuilding there in 5 years. Everything in Hawaii takes at least twice as long and costs at least twice as much as any bloated overly regulated project on the mainland. Environmentalists, Hawaiian activists, and the poor's will make sure that happens. |
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www.hifico.org
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Originally Posted By ZippZ: I'm not sure what Lahaina will become. It was the Waikiki of Maui in the past and it could return. Or it could just be another small town. A lot of locals on Maui are anti tourists. And those that want tourists just jack up the taxes and fees on them making it prohibitively expensive for most tourists. Not sure about drastic rebuilding there in 5 years. Everything in Hawaii takes at least twice as long and costs at least twice as much as any bloated overly regulated project on the mainland. Environmentalists, Hawaiian activists, and the poor's will make sure that happens. Property taxes for residents with dwellings under 1MM are shockingly low. Like $1500/yr. Maui absolutely soaks: Homes over 3MM in value Non-owner-occupied (IE, live there less than 6 months out of the year) Dwellings uses as Short Term Rentals (IE, Air B&Bs) Timeshares And I saw recently they passed a bill that required that some rental properties will be forced to be converted into long-term rentals. |
Proud millennial.
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What's Happened to the Forgotten People of Lahaina? ..stunning... 
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"I saw machines invading the land that had previously been the home of culture." ~ Fr. Romano Guardini, Servant of God
(Pope Paul VI offered to make Guardini a cardinal in 1965, but he declined.)
(Pope Paul VI offered to make Guardini a cardinal in 1965, but he declined.)