A bear was sighted east of the Horicon marsh at cty Z and point road.
This is the closest one has been spotted to me.  About 15 miles away.   Picture shows a young bear.   I do not have the pic my wife saw the pic

This might be why you're seeing bears down south...wolves are chasing them away up north.

The following 2 pictures show a pack of wolves in one of our bear baits. In 1st pic, there's 3 wolves in bait. (other pictures showed the pack as 5).




In 2nd pic, taken 32 minutes after 1st, you can see them driving off a bear that was approaching the bait. One on one, my money's on the bear. But when it's 3 or more wolves vs 1 bear, things are different.  



So what does the bear do? He goes annd gets some of his "homies", and evens the odds....

We have a few down here in Kenosha/Racine county area.
Across the road from my buddies farm there's been one on trail cameras for a few years.(Bong Rec Area)
Just west of there by Hwy JB and Rt 83 (Karcher Marsh) there was sow with cubs posted on social media.

Been some reports of them in Rock co.

Had one wander across the road in front of our place in the suburbs of Rudolph. (Wood Co.)

Backyard last month little guy put on quite the dancing show...like Michael Jackson

Attached File

Nice pics there...

Wolves killed at least 29 dogs in Wisconsin in 2023, third highest year on record

Of course those are only the dogs they had to confirm were killed "by wolves"...the one's owners couldn't convince the DNR were killed by wolves didn't get paid squat in damages...same with survivors who didn't get their medical bills covered.

Not a fan of using tax $ to pay for dogs.  Could be filed under the category of "$hit happens".

I disagree. As long as the gubmint protects the wolves, then the gubmint is responsible for any & all damages they inflict on pets, hunting dogs, and all other domestic animals. Don't want to pay for damages, then they must lift the ban on using tactics to interfere in wolf attacks (lethal interference if necessary), so the dog owners can protect their dogs. Same applies to all domesticated animals. Currently the law says if a wolf attacks my dog in my presence - on my own property or public land makes no difference - all I can legally do is holler at it and make noise to scare it off, I cannot physically interfere (yeah, right) and then call the DNR to report it (as if that will do anything).  

My "hollering and noise making" will travel at roughly 900fps and weigh 250 grs... shit happens.

Leave it to the WIDNR to re-introduce a known predatory species already under federal protections, that prevents local authorities from managing population numbers.
Gary

Former DNR warden under investigation for killing wolf


Hopefully Trump gets back in a re-de-lists them again...

So... what happens if they take the critter off the endangered list and implement a population limit - will that eliminate any further attacks?  I just can't get behind payouts for nature happening.  I realize more wolfies, more attacks - less wolfies, less attacks, but your not going to get to no attacks.  Bringing them back here was just a stupid idea and the DNR pretty much has the market cornered on stupid.

Why would he even mention that on social media or report it in the first place?

It will do 3 things.

1.) It will reduce, and then limit, the overall number on the landscape, which should lead to far less future confrontations. The population is now wildly underestimated, and totally uncontrolled. It can only get worse, as they are eating themselves out of more remote territory and must move to "greener pastures" (pun intended) to survive. Those greener pastures are where people who live in wolf country carry on with their daily lives.  

2.) Generations of wolves in the protected areas have learned not to fear humans. They have gotten increasingly bold. This will behavior will be "un-learned".

3.) People will no longer need to "stand by" and witness attacks on their animals without interfering, to remain "legal". This will aid in the results of #2.

Once controls are in place, and lethal defensive actions become legal, if you still get attacked and have not taken defensive precautions (like carrying a pistol), then you can rightly say "shit happens". But the situation as it stands now reminds me of pre-concealed carry days. "Better judged by 12 than carried by 6" from back then equates to "shoot, shovel, shut up"... what we say today.




Absolutely.

only trouble is DNR did not bring them back, they did it on their own.

DNR was trapping and collaring wolves in the '70's in WI to study movements etc, these were wolves that were already here.

Besides that wolves will reach a population level and float up and down around that level. As all creatures do.
They won't expand to completely fill the state.
Many reasons why.

I got no idea...

+ 1000

I disagree the subspecies being found in WI did not get here under it's own steam...anymore than it did in the western states...

IDOC (IL DNR) back in the day released beaver and coyote in the early,  mid 70s without alot of people knowing.
Only reason I was informed is because my uncle was directly involved with it.
The wolves in the UP , if I am not mistaken came from the Dakotas just like the cougar.
Hmmm... that's alot of ranging for a "endangered " species.
Let's not forget about cougar in  Rock Co. that mysteriously showed up in the Vera Bottoms a few years ago.

DNR claims the wolves here now were always here, they never went extinct. And also float the theory they migrated down here from Minnesota. Whether the DNR actually released any, I haven't seen concrete proof of that, despite the widespead belief they did. They haven't done anything to discourage wolves multiplying either. I did see them back in the 70s, in the remote areas around Mercer, where I hunted & snowmobiled. We once saw a pack of 4 run down and kill a deer on the frozen Turtle Flambeau flowage.... a winter in mid 70s.

The only thing that will level out their population is lack of prey. By then, they will have killed all the deer in the "big" woods that haven't fled to the safety of more populated areas, and the wolves are sure to follow. They already are doing so. I've lived 3 miles east of Eagle River for the past 33 years, and thus I'm also 3 miles west of Nicolet National Forest, which I've hunted in those 33 years. Up until about 8-9 years ago, deer in my neighborhood were fairly scarce in daylight hours. Not rare, but not an everyday thing. The most we ever saw at one time was 7. Even a roadkill along 70 out this way was rare. Now they are far too frequent. Below is why...

That all changed about the same time I started see more & more wolf tracks, then deer carcasses, then the actual wolves themselves becoming a common sight in the Natl Forest. The deer population exploded in my area. Now I've had as many as 45 on my little 2 acres of woods at one time!! Where the fuck did they all come from? They did not just reproduce thenselves that quickly. The Natl Forest  is where they came from. Not just here, but all along it's border has had the same thing. Deer sightings, and deer sign (like tracks in the snow) are now few & far between in Nicolet, in the same area where it seemed there was one behind every tree just 10-12 years ago. Wolf sign (tracks in the snow) OTOH, are now everywhere there was once deer tracks. Those plentiful deer in 2014 are gone. Either the wolves ate them all...or they left the area. At the same time, just 5 miles away, the deer population has literally exploded! Coincidence? Or a mass migration to avoid being eaten?

Before a wolf will die of starvation, he'll seek out the food to sustain him. He'll follow those deer to wherever they went. That brings them to where I live. I've already seen them in nearby woods. There were numerous people who saw a wolf feeding on a roadkill deer, along hwy 70, not 2 miles away. It was all over local facebook pages. Some took pictures, I saw those pictures. It was not a coyote. It was huge wolf... and totally unfazed by the morning traffic whizzing by on hwy 70, heading into Eagle River at our morning "rush hour". It was less than a mile from where I got hundreds of wolf pictures at our bear baits a few years ago (some are in another of my posts in this thread). So, yes they will level out eventually... but at what cost to the people who must live along side them before they run out of prey here too? It won't be pretty.

A buddy who has a bear tag this fall, and whom I'm baiting for, bought a new Tactacam cellular trail camera. He brought it to me last weekend, to put up on the bear bait so he can see the bear pictures by logging in at his home in Muskego. I've got a few Spypoints, but this is first time I've seen the Tactacam. So I put it up behind my pole barn, facing the 20 acre parcel of woods behind my 2 acres, yesterday about 5:30 pm. To work the bugs out of it's operation (btw... it's fucking awesome, never buy anything else!). The point to this rambling is, from 5:30pm yesterday, to 6:30pm today, I got 82 deer pictures. 82! in 25 hours. 15 years ago, I wouldn't get 82 in an entire summer. I've had a Spypoint out in the Nicolet since the Sunday before last, or 9 days ago. it has ZERO deer pictures so far... but I did get 5 wolf pictures.

So some people actually think if left alone, the wolf population will just level off and everything will be peachy keen?  I don't put any stock in the numbers the DNR throws around - they're just a bunch of semi-educated guesses.  When people who live and work in an area say "there's a lot of wolfs around" and the DNR response is something like "that isn't supported by our data", that's when I arrive at the opinion that the DNR hasn't a clue about what is really going on.

Funny you mentioned this as a buddy and I were talking about this on Saturday.
I noticed it where my in-laws had a place on the north side of Arrowhead Lake.
18 years ago you might see a doe and fawn, when I was last there it was nothing to see 10-20 together.
They are bedding down right next to houses to try and stay safe.
It's only a matter of time before the wolves figure it out.
Also,  aren't bears the dominant predator of spring fawns?

I can't walk outside on my lawn without stepping in deer pellets. Right now, this very moment as I type this (11:30am, July 3rd), there are 3 bucks and 2 does bedded down not 50 yards from the back of my pole barn. They're there virtually every day, all day. or they're at a neighbors' house. They "live" here, in every sense of the word.

Bears will prey on fawns, but only if they stumble across one. They don't actively hunt for them. The black bear is far more omniverous and a scavenger, than they are a predator. Wolves OTOH, are far more carniverous, scavenger 2nd, plant eater 3rd. They actively seek out fawns. Not only that, wolves seek out bear dens in the late winter after cubs are born, and will eat the cubs.  

What I never see mentioned by the DNR is that the mere presence of an overpopulation of wolves effects the deer herd in more ways than just killing them and eating them. There's no way the wolves can actually catch and kill all the deer in a given area, to remove the deer population entirely. But they don't have to kill & eat them to remove them.  They drive them to more protected areas. It's a known fact that deer in this area and the U.P. will migrate many miles in winter to traditional yarding areas. They do this to survive a harsh winter. Now they do it all year, to survive the wolves. They migrate to areas where the wolves have yet to populate... and that's where the people are. How long before the wolves follow? Just the presence of wolves can also have a very detrimental effect on deer procreating. They can never relax.

I am not seeing young ones this year as in years past...the only fawns I have seen so far were running across Hwy51 in Minocqua and into the cemetery...
I've only seen a handful of deer so far...one small buck and maybe 10 does...none with fawns...

You're right the wolves are harassing the deer out of breeding...

Back in the day when you didn't need any special license and could shoot them during deer hunting there were a lot more deer in the northwoods...

I'm spending a lot more time in the woods near Land O  Lakes we're buying a lake lot over in the area...way back in the boonies...and the wolves are there not the deer...two and two make four.

besides the wolves I would argue that alot of the habitat has deteriorated as far as deer is concerned since the '70's.
I don't know if you agree but it seems to me that there was once alot more clear cutting than there is now.

Your point about deer all over where they feel safe is the same as down here is the southern 1/2.
Here it is hunting pressure that drives them tho.
Much more private land that is never hunted with pockets of hunted land.

Down here we have too much deer. When the deer population is high enough so that various native plants disappear from the landscape from browse that's too high. White Oaks are a example. White Oaks have 2 issues, one is they need light to repopulate and they don't get it in over grown woodlots and the other issue is where they get enough light the deer browse is so heavy that they almost never survive.  Consequently all you see are large White Oaks, no saplings. Once the larger Oaks are gone they will become very rare. The White Oaks I have planted Have to be protected to survive. I occasional will find seedlings in my woods, they never survive more than a couple of years, that's due to deer browse. White Oaks can and do survive for many decades in a somewhat shaded environment waiting to take off if and when conditions change. They however will eventually die if that doesn't happen.

Taking a step back a looking at the big picture I would say this. As a land owner who works at improving the quality of my land I think and am concerned about more than just one aspect of deer population. Many don't realize the destructive nature of a deer herd. Some of my neighbors are farmers, they deal with the high deer populations too. One neighbor raises and sells ornamental trees. From planting to harvest takes years. Some of his most profitable species can't be grown due to deer damage. He can only grow trees that deer pretty much leave alone. I suspect that the trees that sell for more are partly so because of deer damage.
Seeing a dead deer along the roads was rare outside of the rut decades ago, now we see them all year round.

Another aspect that is little talked about or looked into is Ticks and the diseases they carry. Ticks used to be non-existent in the southern 1/2 of the state. You could spend all year outdoors in the woods and fields and NEVER get a tick. Go up North on vacation and you'd have to check for ticks. I don't buy the climate change explanation as the weather was always more mild in the south than the north and yet no ticks. I think the rise of ticks is due to decades of higher deer populations.

Most hunters I know don't have a clue about this aspect of the deer population. They just want more deer understandably. Few give thought to the farmers, to the deterioration of environment, the higher cost of auto insurance, the cost to landowners that grow and sell forestry products and the possibility of higher health care costs due to tick explosion in the southern half of the state.


just for some possible confirmation of this here is deer harvest from 1960 on.
Notice how low it was till the '80's. Its still much higher than it was in the '60's.






All this to say Wolves are not going away, unlike some I don't think they should, they are a native animal that existed for eons here and if they can do so they should be allowed to. Yes, they are issue for some but so are lots of other animals/plants. Arguments could be made for the elimination of deer in my area. And I would be opposed to that too. I do think at some point they will be managed again and the population lowered. This possibly might help the northern 1/2 of the state increase its deer herd. Deer can repopulate very quickly. It doesn't help the southern 1/2 of the state tho. We will still have all the issues with too large a herd. Hard to hunt them to a lower population when most of the land isn't hunted.

A thread about bear has now morphed into a thread about wolves.  

Early this summer there was a bear spotted on the golf course in Windsor, just north of Madison.  This is a very populated area.  Was later spotted towards Waunakee which means it managed to successfully cross 6 lanes of the heavy traffic corridor of 90/94.  

No idea why a bear would really travel to this area.  Bears aren’t that stealthy and discreet like other creatures that can hide and adapt to urban settings.

they travel to find new home ranges, the ones that travel are typically younger males.
no way for any animal to know whats out there unless they look.
Its good for the species, genetics are best spread around.

Not in comparison to a cat, like a cougar or bobcat, but you'd be surprised at how quiet and stealthy they can be when they move through the woods. I deal with them a lot, as I bait for bear hunters (currently baiting now, started 2 weeks ago). Black bears are generally very laid back, peaceful, & non-aggressive (except with each other). The only bears I fear when out in the woods are the sows with cubs, and one that may be injured or wounded. I carry a pistol anyway, just in case...

And curious too...

Yeah, my fault, I hijacked it and I apologize. Bears & wolves generally occupy the same home territory now, and the over abundance of wolves over the past decade up north just may have more bears on the move south than ever before. No, I have no "proof" of that, just speculation based on personal observation. Wolves are a hot, and touchy, subject in traditional bear country. Their re-emergence is mostly supported by the big city "greenies" who may visit the "big woods up north" a few weeks every year, and it plays into their "being in the wilderness" fantasies. Most of us who must deal with them an a daily basis are not as supportive. Bears OTOH have been here in abundance pretty much always. I remember going to the garbage dumps as a kid back in 50s & 60s, in the evenings, just to see the scavenging bears. Bears co-exist pretty well with humans. They may destroy your garbage cans & bird feeders... but they don't hunt in packs & kill your livestock, hunting dogs, nor pets.

Conover, WI./Upper Buckatabon lake/West Buckatabon Road/East Side/Before Hwy K/at sundown. Our parents would let us sit on the hood of the car and watch the bears (from a distance of course)

LOL... I know the spot. I have a friend who now lives right on K directly across from East Buckatabon. They have bears there almost constantly. No big deal, they're harmless... unless you have birdfeeders at ground level.

Like many things on the western side of WI, a plague spread from MN to our beautiful state.

That plague is the wolf.

I would love to blame our FDNR for the wolves, but they all came from MN.

Sorry, gotta call BS on that one.

It is a common misconception that people like to use for animals, thinking they have this innate knowledge that they can only make a certain number and that is all they will do.

Animals being animals, they will bang when the need arises.

Any extra are chased away.  Some go far away.

If we do not control wolves, they will spread.  There is food for wolves all over WI, and they will breed.

It takes a lot of time, but it happens.

No doubt BUT....

I still say they won't fill the state. if left without human interference, sure they would. But as they start to expand they will reach higher human population areas, more conflicts with livestock and pets.
But before that happens wolf population in the north will be at carrying capacity, which it isn't at yet, still pockets with deer and no wolves around human population centers in the north. They will come off endangered list before they make any serious population in the southern 1/2.

I think its just the reality of Human/wolf conflict in higher population areas will force a end to the endangered listing and a end to wolf population expansion.

The wolf population in the north is already at or above the carrying capacity, which is the population goal the DNR previously set. They are regularly seen now within one mile of towns.

I'm bear baiting right now, and we get wolf pictures on our cameras every night without fail (got a HUGE one last night... it'll take me few minutes but I'll try to post it here). Those cameras are about 6 miles in a straight line from downtown Eagle River. They are less than a half mile from a very popular campground. They are about 1/3 mile from the nearest private residences on the shore of a nearby lake. These wolves are NOT just in the "boonies" anymore.  

edit to add wolf picture. Trust me, I have literally hundreds, if not thousands, of wolf pictures, and that is a big wolf.



This bear was in bait. Check the times on the bottom, and compare the sizes. That's a decent size bear. Not huge as bears go, but it's no baby...



Bear left the bait when that wolf approached. Again, look at the time stamps.




Wolves like vanilla wafer cookies as much as bears do... who knew?

The wolf chasing the bear out of the bait last night isn't the end of this "story". The wolf got chased out too, about 10 minutes later.

Neither the big bad wolf nor any of the bears will tangle with "Pepe LaPew"...

We just acquired a piece of property in LOL township
We got a huge raspberry patch...acres and acres of berries
just off of old hwy B
A local to you guy...excavator/logger generational local was telling us that he hasn't seen wolves here but lots of coyotes?
When I get done clearing around the shoreline I'd like to get some cameras up...what are you using...you get some really nice shots...

Wolves are there too. My daughter's 62 acres across the line in the U.P. has them, and they're everywhere in the Ottawa.

As far as cameras go, if you want cellular cameras, that send you pictures within minutes of taking them, Tactacam Reveal is the way to go. We now have 2, getting more, sold on these. My buddy has the Reveal SK (that camera took the pictures above... and I have the mega pixels dialed down from 24mp to 8mp to conserve battery. I'll crank them back up later on). His has a lithium battery pack and a small solar panel that came with it. Also has dual antennas. He paid $179. My camera is a Reveal X 2.0, I paid $99 for the camera, then bought a lithium battery pack and an extenal solar panel with another lithium battery integrated inside it. Reveal X2.0 still on sale at Cabelas, Sportsman Warehouse and several others for $99 right now, because the Reveal X 3.0 just came out. That's a little bit nicer camera, and only $20 more, and it's worth it. All new Tactacams come with dual SIM cards, so you can choose on-site whether to use Verizon or AT&T, whichever works better (Reveal X 3.0 does it automatically, others its done manually). The cell plans they offer arent too bad. $120 per year for the Pro plan, you get unlimited photos all year long. Additional cameras can have the same unlimited plan for $96 per year each. You can get the Pro plan monthly too, for $13 per month, if you just use cameras for hunting seasons. I plan on mine doing security duty when not in the woods. There are smaller plans, but unlimited is the way to go.

For a security box, those made by Cam Lock Box in Green Bay are the very best. I have several of theirs. They also sell Master Lock Python cable locks in keyed alike groups of 8.

I have two Spypoint cameras too. The nice thing about them is you get 100 free pictures every month, with no plan. Otherwise, unlimited is the same $120 yearly there. They work good too, but the Reveal is so much more user friendly, and their free App is easy to navigate and has more features and adjustments.

Non-cellular cameras, I'd go with Browning. We have about 6 of those, been using them for 10 years. None have quit working, but I had one battery tray break. Browning sells replacements, but they've been out of stock on mine for months. So I "plastic welded" it back together with a soldering gun. Camera still works. We also have a Primos, a Moultrie, and 2 old Bushnells. None of those get used any more. Bushnell are junk. We had 6 when we started in 2010, down to 2 working cameras in 3 years. We now set our  non cellular cameras up to monitor road traffic near our baits, and to watch over the cell cams. I also have 3 $30 Tascos from Walmart out there right now. They're like Timex watches...take a lickin and keep on tickin. We have Browning cameras well hidden and set up to watch over our good cameras.

Thanks for the tips on cameras etc...gonna order up some Reveal Pro 3.0s and cases.

Had one on camera just off 13 in Marshfield a few weeks ago.

Saw them out in Sherwood where I used to bow hunting back in the 70s

Ah, I see, you are trying to use logic.

That makes logical sense, unfortunately, where wolves are concerned, logic goes out the window.

The people making decisions about wolves on the endangered list only know wolves from Disney or some other fanciful ideation of what wolves are.

I pray for the day that wolves expand into the suburbs.  I hate that fluffy mcpoopypants, the family yard Yorkie will be killed to feed the pack, but maybe then people will wake up.

Wolves are smart, they let the bear open the bait then they move in to feast.

wolf population depends upon food sources, in N. WI its primarily Deer. If the deer population is on a downward trend the wolf population will follow it downward.
This is due to lack of nutrients/health of wolves. Less food less healthy, less healthy more mortality.
Less healthy smaller litters.

almost always only one female has a litter in a pack. So while a pack may have 10 wolves only one will have pups. More food/health more pups and the opposite follows.

wolf population will not continue to grow unless food supplies can support it. No deer, wolf population crash.
wolf population crash=deer population explosion.
Deer population explosion=wolf population increase
Wolf increase= deer decrease
rinse and repeat.

One big factor in this ebb and flow of populations is dependent upon habitat for the deer, if the habitat is decreasing, lets say from no more logging and forest maturing into poor habitat for deer then deer ability to rebound will be hampered.
Habitat has little to do with wolf population directly, just food supplies effect wolf populations, Habitat has alot more effect on the deer.

Also the ease at which wolves can exploit the available food makes a difference. Hard winter=weaker deer=easier for wolves, this is very short term gain for the wolves.

The carrying capacity for wolves depends upon the deer herd, if there is enough deer to feed them/keep them healthy they will keep increasing.

I see no reason to dispute the above. The problem is there is collateral damage when the deer herd decreases due to the wolf numbers increasing. At some point in this process there are too many wolves and not enough deer to feed them. We are at that point, or rapidly getting there. The deer haven't all been eaten, but they have fled the more remote areas for the shelter of being near people. Wolves are now following. Those hungry wolves are not going to just lie down under a shade tree and die of starvation. Their self survival instincts won't allow that. Their population may decrease over time, but it's a slow process that does not effect those already alive and on the landscape. They will seek out a food source wherever they can find it. It's already occuring. Just last week, a woman in Woodruff had her dog snatched by a wolf not 15 feet away from her, in her own front yard. She tried to intervene and claims the wolf had no fear of her whatsoever, Unfortunately she was not armed. She has young children too. This is not the first such incident and it won't be the last.

I saw it on a local page on Facebook. No point in linking that because it's a private group and you'd need to be a member to see it. If I can find a news story to link to, I'll add it here in an edit. The woman this happened to is a member of that group (so am I).

edit for links...

https://www.wsaw.com/2024/08/01/somebodys-child-is-going-be-next-woodruff-family-pet-killed-by-wolf/

https://www.waow.com/news/family-grieving-loss-of-dog-after-wolf-attack/article_35091ef6-4f8f-11ef-8703-b39de80bec5f.html



And they got another hunting dog last week too.

https://www.wjfw.com/news/hunting-dog-dies-after-being-attacked-by-wolves-in-price-county/article_8766a0c2-4dde-11ef-8063-ef1881d26098.html

Got my neighbors dog in Boulder Junction 2 miles from town...and she said there were more reports of them going after pets in backyards just north of town along Hwy M High Lake area.

Just talked to some folks at Vilas County Improvement Hunt Club...they haven't had any deer to hunt on their 1500 acres to speak of for the last 5 yrs...

Saw 4 eagles on a kill site back in that area yesterday.

I am seeing one or two deer in the area between Land O lakes to Presque Isle down to Boulder Junction over to Conover
that big square of highland swamps and spring holes...lots of wolf sightings reports though.

Some kayaker up from Eagle River stopped by the dock to talk and told me stories of deer flocking into Eagle River?
Said one came into his shop while he was working and he fed it a peanut butter sandwich by hand...

Pray that Trump gets in and delists them.

IMO the wolves without man to put fear into them will realize and adapt and begin to lose their fear of man...

They are already getting bolder...

Protein is protein and they have survived this long by adaptation...

They will continue to adapt.

Although the health statement maybe somewhat accurate...as the woman whose dog was taken was on horseback
charged the wolves and they dropped her dog...retreated a few yards into the thicker brush...where she observed them
They did not run off but waited...she recovered her dog...got back on her horse and made it home.

She noted the horrible smell of the wolves and on her dog after their attack?

I have only been around one female wolf and pups when I was younger never noticed any bad smell...

Sample of one + 10 pups in a zoo setting...

10 yards away from one up in Bayfield back in the early 70s...but the DNR got pissed at me for reporting it to them...
They insisted it was a coyote...

That's been happening for about 6-7 years now. I'm halfway between Eagle River & Nicolet Natl Forest to the east of town. I've lived in same house for 33 years (and 4 days... 33rd anniversary of moving into this house was last week). Until about that 6-7 years ago point, we'd see an occasional deer. Family groups of 3 or 4, like a mom & a pair of fawns, etc. Big racked bucks were scarce. I think the most deer we ever saw at one time was 7, on a foggy Easter Sunday morning in late 90s. 7 deer, wow, that was a big deal! Fast forward to 2022. We counted 42 on just our 2 acres of woods at one time. I have the video to prove it. Neighbor across the road beat my count... he counted 44 the day before. There wasn't some kind of sudden "baby boom" of deer. Those winters where the population dramatically increased, were also some of the most severe winters ever around here. Those deer had to come from somewhere.

Meanwhile, 5 miles east in Natl forest where I deer hunt, and where I've hunted since 1991 with 3 brothers who hunted same area since early 80s, we found ZERO deer. In 9 days of hunting, 4 very experienced hunters who know the area they're huntin intimately, never saw a deer, and found 2 sets of deer tracks. Wolf tracks were everywhere. I saw 5, another guy saw 3, another saw the same 5 I did. Did they eat all the deer? No, that's absurd, and not possible. Did they drive them away? Sure looks like it, all the evidence you could ask for is right there.

Same thing is happening on the other side of Eagle River, where most of the Vilas County Forest lies, and there's state land over there attached to Northern Highland State Forest too. Those who live between the towns and the big woods have been inundated with the "refugees" seeking asylum. This concentrates deer into smaller areas, making it easier for shit like CWD to spread, and makes certain sections of highway far more dangerous in regards to hitting one than they should be, if the deer were more dispersed in the big woods where roads & traffic are far less abundant.    

the forest maturing does the same thing.

I have been grouse hunting mostly west (along old B as an example) of Land O' Lakes since the early '70's, not nearly as much clear cuts as there used to be. Many of the areas we used to hunt are too over grown and hold no birds.

no birds = no deer

LOL... so the deer moved from one "mature" forest (Nicolet) to another mature forest (Township  of Washington) where I live? There's no immature forest here. No clear cuts for deer browse. When trees get cut down it's to make room for another home to be built. But the deer are still here in numbers never seen before. Forest maturing does do it, no arguments, but it's more of a gradual thing that occurs over time. It doesn't happen in just a few years. Deer numbers in Nicolet fell of the charts in 3-4 short years, and at the same time, they exploded just 3 miles away in semi-populated areas. A maturing forest cannot explain the suddeness of it, as both have matured equally. if anything, the natl forest has had more cutting than the private lands adjacent to it. The only explanation is deer went from one area to another one close by... en masse. Why? Maturity of forest and weather were indentical in both areas. People do still feed them, but it's been illegal here for a few years, and the local warden is very aggressive at enforcing the ban, so feeding is way down. Cost of feed has risen too. The only common denominator is wolves are there, but not here, and deer are not stupid.  

Logging is ongoing in Nicolet where we hunt right now. Has been for several years. Grouse numbers have been very good for quite a few years in a row. I keep waiting for the crash to the down cycle, but it's way overdue. I bump birds almost every bear baiting trip... saw 2 juveniles just this morning, and there were probably more in that flock as they likely haven't dispersed yet. Cover was thick, but 2 flew right across the road in front of my Jeep when they jumped up.

Vilas County Forestry has done extensive logging west of Eagle River and in the Conover area for the past 15- 20 years. They manage it for wildlife very well. Areas that get overgrown in time are replaced by other areas being freshly logged. They try to keep a certain percentage of cutting, and allowing forests reaching maturity. They deal with far less politics (tree huggers) locally than in state, and especially, federal levels. There too, bird numbers are as high as I've ever seen them. I heard a lot of drumming while turkey hunting there this spring.


edit to add: I had a safe opening job just yesterday west on B, out by Bents Camp. Saw a nice bear on the way there, it was crossing B near Black Oak Lake. Saw 2 grouse on the way back home. Those were adult birds, right near Hwy S.