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Posted: 12/26/2017 2:46:12 PM EDT
Hello,
I have and 18" 6.5 creedmoor ultimate upper and lower that is having trouble cycling. I have spent most of the morning on hold waiting to talk to someone at LT but had to get off the phone. Is there a way for y'all to get in touch with me? Thank you :) |
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If you'll explain in detail the issues the rifle is having, the Parts list used in your build (detailed), and how you assembled the weapon I'm sure the very knowledgeable folks here can help you figure the issue(s) out. Just don't BBP us.
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That boom boom pow, and now boom boom pow 2
In case you missed the unhappy larue customer who had a bad scope and thought it was there rifle got on this forum and blasted Mark for not getting to him fast enough with his issue |
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That boom boom pow, and now boom boom pow 2 In case you missed the unhappy larue customer who had a bad scope and thought it was there rifle got on this forum and blasted Mark for not getting to him fast enough with his issue View Quote OP, answer the questions in the first post and there will be several people here to help you troubleshoot your issue. i can tell you that i got the exact same kit you did and it runs like a top. |
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Thanks for all the help.
Gun is short stroking / not locking back. Ultimate upper and lower from Larue in 6.5 creedmoor 18". Everything is factory. I'm not trying to bash (and saw the shit show in the other thread lol) because the folks at Larue have always been good to me, just get a phone call because after being on hold for almost four hours I just gave up. Gun shoots sub moa by the way, but it's a bolt gun right now |
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Almost everyone here is more knowledgeable than me on this stuff. But I thought I read somewhere on here that the extra long gas system combined with the 18" barrel made it ideal to run suppressed. I think it was in a thread where LaRue CS told someone that and sent them a lighter buffer. If it were my gun I'd take the buffer weights out of the buffer and see if that's enough to get it past the bolt lock back. Did you grease/oil the reciprocating parts?
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Almost everyone here is more knowledgeable than me on this stuff. But I thought I read somewhere on here that the extra long gas system combined with the 18" barrel made it ideal to run suppressed. I think it was in a thread where LaRue CS told someone that and sent them a lighter buffer. If it were my gun I'd take the buffer weights out of the buffer and see if that's enough to get it past the bolt lock back. Did you grease/oil the reciprocating parts? View Quote |
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1. Ammo?
2. Magazines? 3. Number of rounds through firearm? 4. Gas block seated/aligned correctly? 5. Buffer/spring combo? 6. Lubricant used? 7. Range conditions during testing? I know you said everything was stock, but does that really mean EVERY thing (gas block, bolt catch, charging handle, etc.) My BuildAR 2.0 upper was tight upon final assembly - took a couple hundred rounds for everything to break in and make nice with each other before it had that super-smooth feel dependability. Running moderately charged hand loads during that timeframe would often result in the symptoms you describe. |
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1. Ammo? 2. Magazines? 3. Number of rounds through firearm? 4. Gas block seated/aligned correctly? 5. Buffer/spring combo? 6. Lubricant used? 7. Range conditions during testing? I know you said everything was stock, but does that really mean EVERY thing (gas block, bolt catch, charging handle, etc.) My BuildAR 2.0 upper was tight upon final assembly - took a couple hundred rounds for everything to break in and make nice with each other before it had that super-smooth feel dependability. Running moderately charged hand loads during that timeframe would often result in the symptoms you describe. View Quote 2. Magazines: two different brand new Larue and also a Magpul 3. Number of rounds through firearm: about 25 4. Gas block seated/aligned correctly: it appears to be so judging by eye 5. Buffer/spring combo: Larue supplied red painted spring and H2 buffer 6. Lubricant used: ALG go juice and very thin grease 7. Range conditions during testing: humid and approximately 60 degrees Up to this point not a single round cycled properly after firing. The majority of malfunctions consisted in the gun not picking up a new round. At times a new round would get picked up but get stuck feeding at a 45 degree angle or so. The trigger would reset every time and when pulled it would make the hammer fall on an empty chamber. Gun would not lock open. Ejection seems pretty weak and it would barely spit out the brass. At this time I appreciate the help but I am not really trying to do any troubleshooting, just get the attention of LT and see what they'd like me to do. Everything is stock with the addition of a scope and a keymod rail section and Atlas bipod My UU in 5.56 runs very good and cycles without missing a beat |
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Quoted: 1. Ammo: Hornady factory loads 140 grain American gunner and ELD match 2. Magazines: two different brand new Larue and also a Magpul 3. Number of rounds through firearm: about 25 4. Gas block seated/aligned correctly: it appears to be so judging by eye 5. Buffer/spring combo: Larue supplied red painted spring and H2 buffer 6. Lubricant used: ALG go juice and very thin grease 7. Range conditions during testing: humid and approximately 60 degrees Up to this point not a single round cycled properly after firing. The majority of malfunctions consisted in the gun not picking up a new round. At times a new round would get picked up but get stuck feeding at a 45 degree angle or so. The trigger would reset every time and when pulled it would make the hammer fall on an empty chamber. Gun would not lock open. Ejection seems pretty weak and it would barely spit out the brass. At this time I appreciate the help but I am not really trying to do any troubleshooting, just get the attention of LT and see what they'd like me to do. Everything is stock with the addition of a scope and a keymod rail section and Atlas bipod My UU in 5.56 runs very good and cycles without missing a beat View Quote |
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They're gonna give you a list of things to troubleshoot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: 1. Ammo: Hornady factory loads 140 grain American gunner and ELD match 2. Magazines: two different brand new Larue and also a Magpul 3. Number of rounds through firearm: about 25 4. Gas block seated/aligned correctly: it appears to be so judging by eye 5. Buffer/spring combo: Larue supplied red painted spring and H2 buffer 6. Lubricant used: ALG go juice and very thin grease 7. Range conditions during testing: humid and approximately 60 degrees Up to this point not a single round cycled properly after firing. The majority of malfunctions consisted in the gun not picking up a new round. At times a new round would get picked up but get stuck feeding at a 45 degree angle or so. The trigger would reset every time and when pulled it would make the hammer fall on an empty chamber. Gun would not lock open. Ejection seems pretty weak and it would barely spit out the brass. At this time I appreciate the help but I am not really trying to do any troubleshooting, just get the attention of LT and see what they'd like me to do. Everything is stock with the addition of a scope and a keymod rail section and Atlas bipod My UU in 5.56 runs very good and cycles without missing a beat |
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If that's how they want to go about it I'm fine. Ill post back after I hear something from them View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: 1. Ammo: Hornady factory loads 140 grain American gunner and ELD match 2. Magazines: two different brand new Larue and also a Magpul 3. Number of rounds through firearm: about 25 4. Gas block seated/aligned correctly: it appears to be so judging by eye 5. Buffer/spring combo: Larue supplied red painted spring and H2 buffer 6. Lubricant used: ALG go juice and very thin grease 7. Range conditions during testing: humid and approximately 60 degrees Up to this point not a single round cycled properly after firing. The majority of malfunctions consisted in the gun not picking up a new round. At times a new round would get picked up but get stuck feeding at a 45 degree angle or so. The trigger would reset every time and when pulled it would make the hammer fall on an empty chamber. Gun would not lock open. Ejection seems pretty weak and it would barely spit out the brass. At this time I appreciate the help but I am not really trying to do any troubleshooting, just get the attention of LT and see what they'd like me to do. Everything is stock with the addition of a scope and a keymod rail section and Atlas bipod My UU in 5.56 runs very good and cycles without missing a beat That said, if it looks straight, maybe the issue is elsewhere. |
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Just take a look at the gas block again first. Measure to the port on the inside of the block and transfer that to the outside with pencil so you have a visual reference. Then make sure it lines up with the measurements from the barrel shoulder to the port.
Then look over the BCG, and also how the gas tube locks up with the gas key when you let the BCG down on the chamber. Look for a rough lock up, or if the tubes bent funny. Overall how does the action feel when run manually? |
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I'm guessing your gas block may not be properly aligned. Do you have a standard spring and buffer to test in it?
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Quoted: 1. Ammo: Hornady factory loads 140 grain American gunner and ELD match 2. Magazines: two different brand new Larue and also a Magpul 3. Number of rounds through firearm: about 25 4. Gas block seated/aligned correctly: it appears to be so judging by eye 5. Buffer/spring combo: Larue supplied red painted spring and H2 buffer 6. Lubricant used: ALG go juice and very thin grease 7. Range conditions during testing: humid and approximately 60 degrees Up to this point not a single round cycled properly after firing. The majority of malfunctions consisted in the gun not picking up a new round. At times a new round would get picked up but get stuck feeding at a 45 degree angle or so. The trigger would reset every time and when pulled it would make the hammer fall on an empty chamber. Gun would not lock open. Ejection seems pretty weak and it would barely spit out the brass. At this time I appreciate the help but I am not really trying to do any troubleshooting, just get the attention of LT and see what they'd like me to do. Everything is stock with the addition of a scope and a keymod rail section and Atlas bipod My UU in 5.56 runs very good and cycles without missing a beat View Quote |
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Do the large frames not use the same recessed screws for the gas block?
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Do the large frames not use the same recessed screws for the gas block? As long as the holes in the bottom of the gas block are lined up properly, lining up the gas block is foolproof. |
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The barrel should be dimpled for the set screws. As long as the holes in the bottom of the gas block are lined up properly, lining up the gas block is foolproof. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Yeah I figured it would only go on one way View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Do the large frames not use the same recessed screws for the gas block? As long as the holes in the bottom of the gas block are lined up properly, lining up the gas block is foolproof. ...BTW, didn't the Creedmoor come with a PST?...If so, is it switched to suppressed instead of unsuppressed?.... (full disclosure, I don't have a Creed UU so I'm fishing here for a possible solution...) |
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....I think what 650 was saying is that, unless there is a problem in gas hole location on either the barrel, gas block or dimples, the holes should line up..... ...BTW, didn't the Creedmoor come with a PST?...If so, is it switched to suppressed instead of unsuppressed?.... (full disclosure, I don't have a Creed UU so I'm fishing here for a possible solution...) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Do the large frames not use the same recessed screws for the gas block? As long as the holes in the bottom of the gas block are lined up properly, lining up the gas block is foolproof. ...BTW, didn't the Creedmoor come with a PST?...If so, is it switched to suppressed instead of unsuppressed?.... (full disclosure, I don't have a Creed UU so I'm fishing here for a possible solution...) |
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Quoted: No I dot believe so, the buffer tube assembly was installed at LT View Quote |
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Quoted: Your buffer tube would not come installed on the lower by larue. There is a chance you installed a shorter buffer tube(small frame) and that is not allowing full range of movement for the bolt,buffer tube, buffer spring. View Quote The gun seems to cycle nice and smooth by hand and will lock open when a empty magazine is inserted and bolt is cycled by hand. |
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even though the gas block and barrel are prepared for install, the dimples may not be exactly where they need to be. It would be good to check that
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It can be fixed. But you have to check, or send the gun back to them View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That would suck :( I sent in a request for someone to get in touch with me on the website and it said they try to get back in touch within two days if I remember correctly. I do not believe I have the jig to dimple that specific pattern of that's the case |
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How many rounds are through it? I took a gas block off recently to ensure alignment and I could see an outline on the barrel from the gas like a witness mark clearly marking the hole in the gas block. I think I had about 50 rounds through at that point. SS uncoated barrel.
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Short stroking is typically due to the gun being under gassed or over springed. The hole in every gas block I have ever seen is larger than the hole in the barrel. Manufacturers do this so the gas block can be a little off and still work. The gas block would have to be several degrees out of alignment for it to be causing an issue and if the gas block was far enough out of alignment to cause a gas issue the gas tube would binding or rubbing on the gas key.
Barring some type of obstruction in the gas tube or gas key, the gun is likely over springed. Since you said the supplied spring is marked with red paint and LaRue uses Tactical Springs, you have an "extra power" spring. If you have a standard carbine spring laying around or in another gun, try it. |
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How many rounds are through it? I took a gas block off recently to ensure alignment and I could see an outline on the barrel from the gas like a witness mark clearly marking the hole in the gas block. I think I had about 50 rounds through at that point. SS uncoated barrel. View Quote If I have to ill take off the gas block but I'd really hate to do that since it's loctited in with the green compound |
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It's got about 25 rounds down the pipe. If I have to ill take off the gas block but I'd really hate to do that since it's loctited in with the green compound View Quote I would recommend against changing the spring at this point until you try all the other points. Look at my first message again, check those things. Report back. |
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Short stroking is typically due to the gun being under gassed or over springed. The hole in every gas block I have ever seen is larger than the hole in the barrel. Manufacturers do this so the gas block can be a little off and still work. The gas block would have to be several degrees out of alignment for it to be causing an issue and if the gas block was far enough out of alignment to cause a gas issue the gas tube would binding or rubbing on the gas key. Barring some type of obstruction in the gas tube or gas key, the gun is likely over springed. Since you said the supplied spring is marked with red paint and LaRue uses Tactical Springs, you have an "extra power" spring. If you have a standard carbine spring laying around or in another gun, try it. View Quote ...Not foolproof, but it may help isolate the problem area.... |
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Call the mothership
Had a similar experience with my 260 Rem 22” UU kit. Was short stroking - bolt would only travel less than an inch rearward. Could not get it to cycle once. Pulled the gas block and it was centered over the gas port. No interference with the gas tube. Gas key was tight. Would cycle smoothly by hand. Could not see anything wrong. Larue rifle tech sent a replacement BCG which fixed the problem. It runs with no issues now. There was something amiss with the BCG. Larue CS was amazing as always! |
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Call the mothership Had a similar experience with my 260 Rem 22” UU kit. Was short stroking - bolt would only travel less than an inch rearward. Could not get it to cycle once. Pulled the gas block and it was centered over the gas port. No interference with the gas tube. Gas key was tight. Would cycle smoothly by hand. Could not see anything wrong. Larue rifle tech sent a replacement BCG which fixed the problem. It runs with no issues now. There was something amiss with the BCG. Larue CS was amazing as always! View Quote Thanks for posting your experience, now I feel like I might not be completely nuts |
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I did try and get in touch with technical support over there but after over three and a half hours on hold I had to hang up and get back to other stuff. I'll call them again of I don't hear anything back to my request trough their website on a couple of days. Thanks for posting your experience, now I feel like I might not be completely nuts View Quote |
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I can only imagine how swamped they are right now. Before I ordered my UU kit and once after the order I posted a question through the web site and they were spot on with an answer. I was very impressed with the response time. May take them a couple of days to get a response due to holiday issues but you will be impressed with the customer service.
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I would recommend against changing the spring at this point until you try all the other points. View Quote Swapping the spring or putting the upper on a different complete lower with a standard carbine spring is a quick process. OP, LaRue Tactical uses SPRINGCO springs. The red marked spring is their "extra power" spring. i recommend trying a different spring before you go pulling the gas block off. |
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I'm going to hold off and give them some more time to reach out. It works out good since I just hurt my back again
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Not sure if this was mentioned, but have you tried hotter ammo? New buffer spring might need more cycle time?
I’ve yet to shoot my 22” build so I will report back too. |
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Quoted: Why would you recommend against changing the spring? Will it harm the gun in some way? Swapping the spring or putting the upper on a different complete lower with a standard carbine spring is a quick process. OP, LaRue Tactical uses SPRINGCO springs. The red marked spring is their "extra power" spring. i recommend trying a different spring before you go pulling the gas block off. View Quote It's a large frame, and all large frame guns use the red spring. The next lighter spring is not for the large frame guns or the 6.5 cal. My gun with a 14.5 308 barrel, 22" 6.5, and an 18" 6.5 all run with the red sprinco spring. Along with four other rifles I personally know of, three of which I have touched, with the same caliber swap in variations of barrel length. And from experience with these 6.5 barrels, they have plenty of gas supply. Enough so they shoot reliably on the suppressed setting(reduced). The spring is the least likely problem. The parts you can check yourself are just those. The next step is that it's probably the bcg, and that's something lt had to fix. |
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Quick update, I received and answered the questionare from Larue. Will update once here once I know something more. Happy new year to y'all.
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Out of curiosity, hows the gas key look on the BCG?
Also, do you have any issues with the BCG partially over riding the rounds in the mag and causing a misfeed? Thanks |
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Heard back from Larue and they sent shipping label for the upper. Will update once I hear back from them
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Well finally got out to shoot my UU I picked up 6 months ago. And short cycling. Life is not fare, shipping to home base. 6.5 G now I have to find a box to ship a full gun in. Kind of hard to miss align the gas block with the dimples.
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Well finally got out to shoot my UU I picked up 6 months ago. And short cycling. Life is not fare, shipping to home base. 6.5 G now I have to find a box to ship a full gun in. Kind of hard to miss align the gas block with the dimples. View Quote |
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Been putting it off waiting for glass but just stuck that acog on to functional check. And shit. I think it is a misaligned dimples. But that is just me eyeballing it. Ship the whole thing back and I will get working. As long as they get it working I will be happy. Hell email response time was great like 4 times in one day. Going to FFL in the morning to drop off. Only USP pick-ups in this town are the FFLs. If you have a Larue lower they will take the whole gun, otherwise just upper.
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