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Posted: 11/22/2023 12:01:16 PM EDT
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All my gun owning life, my Colt AR's have all had the notch cut in the hammer ostensibly to prevent the gun going full auto if the disconnector fails because the firing pin will "catch" in the hammer notch and bring everything to a stop. Attached File Recently I purchased a CMMG 22lr conversion kit. The kit's instructions say it works better in an AR with a rounded, or un-notched hammer. Crap. Since I don't have that many AR's anymore and all three are Colts, I thought I might as well check them even though I already know they're notched. Surprise, surprise. The CR6920 I bought in 2020 right after Colt rescinded their "pause" in civilian AR manufacture actually has a rounded hammer with NO notch. This is literally the only one I've seen like this. Every other Colt I've ever owned has had the notch ground in the hammer. Anybody else get a rounded, or un-notched hammer? Attached File |
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"If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences."--W.I. Thomas
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There was a recall on hammers in some Colt ARs within a certain serial number range not all that long ago. Maybe someone can post a link so you can check yours. But anyways, I'm not sure if current Colt ARs are coming with the notched hammers or not. All I know is that they became completely unnecessary as soon as Colt started shipping their rifles with M16 carriers with (large flange) M16 firing pins. They should have switched to non notched hammers when they made that change. |
Throbbing Member. Viagra only made me taller.
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Originally Posted By 556Cliff: There was a recall on hammers in some Colt ARs within a certain serial number range not all that long ago. Maybe someone can post a link so you can check yours. I remember that. Mine missed the quoted range. Recall |
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"If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences."--W.I. Thomas
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"If you ever really need a gun, you'll need it more than anything else you've ever needed in your life."
"If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences."--W.I. Thomas
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"If you ever really need a gun, you'll need it more than anything else you've ever needed in your life."
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Originally Posted By DocApocalypse: All my gun owning life, my Colt AR's have all had the notch cut in the hammer ostensibly to prevent the gun going full auto if the disconnector fails because the firing pin will "catch" in the hammer notch and bring everything to a stop. Not at all possible in any Colt stuff put out in the last what 20 years or so? (I forget when exactly they stopped molesting the carriers with the heavy milling at the ass end around the firing pin shoulder) If you have a regular and unmolested carrier that FP collar is never, ever going to be exposed to any notch in any hammer. Shrouded vs unshrouded carriers if you you want to do more learning on this... That Colt hammer notching is a relic from the past that serves no purpose whatsoever today in anything they produce. |
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Originally Posted By ThatGuyTheCooler: They were common in the Colt expanse series around that time frame Not that I have ever seen in any of the many videos of guys breaking down and comparing their CE 1000 stuff and comparing various bits to their LE series stuff (Lots of those videos on youtube btw) and not in any of the CE 2000 series of Expanse carbines that I personally own. This is what came in both my Expanse carbines -  Notice how they not only did the regular Colt notch in the hammers but also mutilated the ass end of the trigger... WTF Colt!  Aside of all the usual Colt notching and hacking away at various bits of metal here and there (that I despise) I have to say that both of my samples or trigger parts from the Expanse line stuff were / are freaking awesome parts as far as their pull weight and 'feel' compared to any of the other Colt factory stuff I have ever run across personally. Yes, I understand that Colt factory parts are going to fall in a particular 'range' as far as pull weights and such are concerned (and that is most likely going to be at the heavy end of the range with Colt) but... Even if the only parts I am swapping are the trigger and hammer (keeping previous springs/pins and such) I lost measurable weight every time with the Expanse parts being swapped for factory 6721, 6920, etc. each and every time I played around with swapping them in and out of various Colt receivers. Regardless of all the Colt hackery they are all still Schmid Tool parts and perfectly acceptable for use in my opinion. Like I said, mine measured noticeably lighter than other Schmid / Colt parts from everything I compared them to for myself. Still using my Expanse trigger parts and no plans to ditch them any time soon.  |
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Originally Posted By DocApocalypse: Anybody else get a rounded, or un-notched hammer? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/no_notch_jpg-3036082.JPG Yes. :)  Personal preference is for the Schmid NiB hammers. Bough a small pile of those kits when they were on super sale just for those specific hammers... :) (not saying that the Schmid NiB triggers are bad - I use them in a few lowers but not my preferred trigger by far) I generally expect a 1/4 to 1/2lb reduction in pull weight with the coating on the hammer being the only thing changed. (swapping only a Schmid NiB hammer for a phosphate / notched Schmid Colt hammer and keeping all other parts / springs the same) Various real deal FN trigger parts recently went on super sale somewhere and I laid in on a small pile of them. (They would not have got the contracts they did if they were pumping out garbage right?)  Schmid parts all the way. From FN... :) Would like to see some pictures of the markings on your CR Colt parts (the rounded hammer CR stuff you said you had) to try and learn where exactly they came from / who made them. |
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CR series 6920 - round hammer, FA carrier Euro Spec 6920 - notched hammer, FA carrier |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
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Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
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Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
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I've seen both over the past two years or so of production. -OEM-1 purchased October 2022, manufactured April 2022: notched. -6940 purchased Feb 2023, manufactured December 2022: rounded/not notched. -6960 purchased June 2023, manufactured October 2021: notched. |
| I've seen a number of Colts with rounded M16 style hammers over at least the last 4 years. The ones I've seen have all been Schmidt made parts. It was a good move by Colt IMO and all Colts should come with them IMO. |
On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." - Richard Jeni
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Originally Posted By Aaron56: Not that I have ever seen in any of the many videos of guys breaking down and comparing their CE 1000 stuff and comparing various bits to their LE series stuff (Lots of those videos on youtube btw) and not in any of the CE 2000 series of Expanse carbines that I personally own. This is what came in both my Expanse carbines - https://i.imgur.com/X9rlcsO.jpg Notice how they not only did the regular Colt notch in the hammers but also mutilated the ass end of the trigger... WTF Colt! Aside of all the usual Colt notching and hacking away at various bits of metal here and there (that I despise) I have to say that both of my samples or trigger parts from the Expanse line stuff were / are freaking awesome parts as far as their pull weight and 'feel' compared to any of the other Colt factory stuff I have ever run across personally. Yes, I understand that Colt factory parts are going to fall in a particular 'range' as far as pull weights and such are concerned (and that is most likely going to be at the heavy end of the range with Colt) but... Even if the only parts I am swapping are the trigger and hammer (keeping previous springs/pins and such) I lost measurable weight every time with the Expanse parts being swapped for factory 6721, 6920, etc. each and every time I played around with swapping them in and out of various Colt receivers. Regardless of all the Colt hackery they are all still Schmid Tool parts and perfectly acceptable for use in my opinion. Like I said, mine measured noticeably lighter than other Schmid / Colt parts from everything I compared them to for myself. Still using my Expanse trigger parts and no plans to ditch them any time soon. That butchered trigger is a leftover from the (steel insert) sear block days. |
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Originally Posted By SSeric02: I got this one on a NIB 2021 vintage 6933 I recently took possession of. It looks like a notched hammer that was ground down. ETA: Serial number on that CR6933 is a couple thousand below the bottom end of the recall range. https://i.imgur.com/nl5IKgm.jpg Well that's a weird one. Haven't seen that before. |
On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." - Richard Jeni
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Originally Posted By airgunner: Well that's a weird one. Haven't seen that before. Originally Posted By airgunner: Originally Posted By SSeric02: I got this one on a NIB 2021 vintage 6933 I recently took possession of. It looks like a notched hammer that was ground down. ETA: Serial number on that CR6933 is a couple thousand below the bottom end of the recall range. https://i.imgur.com/nl5IKgm.jpg Well that's a weird one. Haven't seen that before. +1 |
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Originally Posted By SmegHead: That butchered trigger is a leftover from the (steel insert) sear block days. When I first read your post I was going to reply and tell you that you were full of crap and that I actually OWNED a Colt 'sear block days' lower and that 'No', that sear block did not in any way require the ass end of the trigger to be molested and hacked away at for those parts to function correctly together. Was going to take the time to 'really show you' and bust out a few pictures of a few of my different 'sear block days' triggers and show you how they did not require molesting back there like they did on the Expanse triggers...  Thankfully for me, I did some more reading and learning before replying and making myself look more stupider than I already am.  You 100% nailed it as to where those came from and why they were contracted to be done like that. Before today I had no freaking clue that Colt had more than one version of their sear block garbage.  ' The one on the left does not interfere with the ass end of the trigger in any way (the Colt fuckery version of the sear block 'goodness' that I have) but... That sear block on the right most definitely does. Appreciate you helping me to learn more and sorry that I initially thought you were an idiot. Pretty sure I am the dummy here for not knowing the differences. :( |
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There were several variations in the hardened steel sear blocks Colt used that varied by how they were pinned into the lower receiver. The image on the right shows one with the additional vertical roll pin on the right rear corner; that sear block has also been milled down for use with a M16 profile bolt carrier. |
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Originally Posted By Aaron56: When I first read your post I was going to reply and tell you that you were full of crap and that I actually OWNED a Colt 'sear block days' lower and that 'No', that sear block did not in any way require the ass end of the trigger to be molested and hacked away at for those parts to function correctly together. Was going to take the time to 'really show you' and bust out a few pictures of a few of my different 'sear block days' triggers and show you how they did not require molesting back there like they did on the Expanse triggers... https://i.imgur.com/czbnDQL.jpg Thankfully for me, I did some more reading and learning before replying and making myself look more stupider than I already am. You 100% nailed it as to where those came from and why they were contracted to be done like that. Before today I had no freaking clue that Colt had more than one version of their sear block garbage. https://i.imgur.com/ru2sz4m.jpg ' The one on the left does not interfere with the ass end of the trigger in any way (the Colt fuckery version of the sear block 'goodness' that I have) but... That sear block on the right most definitely does. Appreciate you helping me to learn more and sorry that I initially thought you were an idiot. Pretty sure I am the dummy here for not knowing the differences. :( LMAO! No worries! I learned (more detailed information) about the blocks from a you tube guy named Pete egger in north Las Vegas. Evidently the geissele large pin triggers are so cut and velocity drop in large pin units will not fit his personal block lower. You, sir have given me even more information. Thank you. My personal AR6721 is c2002 and has the cut trigger and web receiver as well as the notched hammer & 1/2 moon BCG. My AR6720, form 2013, has the notched hammer and plain trigger. |
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Originally Posted By SSeric02: There were several variations in the hardened steel sear blocks Colt used that varied by how they were pinned into the lower receiver. The image on the right shows one with the additional vertical roll pin on the right rear corner; that sear block has also been milled down for use with a M16 profile bolt carrier. Originally Posted By SSeric02: There were several variations in the hardened steel sear blocks Colt used that varied by how they were pinned into the lower receiver. The image on the right shows one with the additional vertical roll pin on the right rear corner; that sear block has also been milled down for use with a M16 profile bolt carrier. Correct. Here is what that version would look like before it was milled down -  The obvious vertical pin in the block being the instant visual clue that one has to have a hacked up trigger tail or else it is not going fit. The Colt sear block lowers without that vertical pin dont extend down as far and do not require any of that trigger hackery for things to fit and function correctly. Back when I bought my JP for my sear block lower, JP had nothing to say about the different sear blocks and / or which ones their triggers would work with and which they would not. Around 2000ish they only differentiated between their triggers by 'large pin and small pin' lowers. I got 'lucky' that I did not have a large pin lower with the vertical pin sear block. Even today JP still only gets it 'half way' right with respect to what their triggers will work with (with respect to Colt sear block lowers). Their current page on the subject says that only this version of the large pin lowers will work correctly with their triggers -  and that this will not - https://www.jprifles.com/safety.php?document_id=204 They don't really take into consideration the differences between the actual sear blocks (vertical pin or not and how far each extends down into the lowers) and just say - Second, verify that your lower receiver has the machined-in wall feature used in newer Colts and not the pinned-in full auto sear block common to older Colt models. If your receiver has the pinned-in block, the JP EZ Trigger will not be compatible (see below). If this is the case, then please contact us directly to either purchase our discontinued JPFCP-2 kit or arrange to have the kit professionally installed by our gunsmiths and returned shipped for $220 with a one-week turn around. If a guy was not doing any homework at all or didnt know the differences between the sear blocks he could very easily be buying one of their triggers (for his sear block lower) and then sending everything to them for a $220.00 custom install (butchering of one side of the trigger tail) when it may not have really been required. (only 'required' for the vertical pinned block lowers) Plan to send them an email and some pictures here shortly explaining the differences and hopefully they will update their info on their site so guys with block lowers will be better informed before buying their products as to what will work 'more easily' or not.  These being the blocks that do not interfere with standard triggers -  If JP sends me any free stickers for my contribution to their data I WILL proudly affix them to a toolbox somewhere.  Newer version vs the original -  |
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Yes one on one of my Colt 14.5" M4A1 SOCOM LE6920SOCOM's has one, all my other ones have the notched hammer. Hammer |