Posted: 6/4/2016 1:56:49 PM EDT
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Working on a new lower. I bought the BAD forged lower, which I'm not too impressed with to begin with but that's another story. So I wanted the 45 degree selector to go with it naturally. My bad-cass -st with not operate with the geissele ssa trigger. Why is it that some people these two work fine and others have had problems?
This is with your lower and your combat safety and it's not compatible with one of, if not the most popular combat trigger? I see your product description says "Some fitting may be required with Geissele Triggers on the 50° Short-Throw side". What kind of "fitting" are we talking here? Bust out the dremel? I did not buy that lower and that safety selector to switch it to the 90degree side. I'm looking for any kind of helpful answers. Thanks |
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METALBALL2112 The area you need to fit is the rear tang (top surface) of the trigger that lifts up and contacts the safety selector core. We are not talking about very much, 0.001" to .003", typically (human hair is about .004" thick), pending on the stacking tolerances. A flat India stone to slowly take away .001" (keep it flat) at a time the top surface of the trigger until it clears the safety. When you have aftermarket products like our safety selector and the Geissele triggers, we have all deviated from "Mil-Spec" or Mil Standards. This means not everything is going to be plug'n play every time. Our safety is designed to work with the MilSpec Trigger and many aftermarket triggers where the rear tang of the trigger bar is flat and parallel (both top and bottom) and typically machined to tolerance. Fitting trigger to safety is not uncommon. You see that with JP Triggers (they even have a video instruction), AR Gold, etc. The Geissele trigger rear tang top surface isn't flat, it is thicker than Mil-Spec and then it tapers down towards the end. It is not a machined surface but left as cast (as far as we know). With a normal 90 deg safety this is fine but with our 50 deg safety sometimes it will bind due to stacking tolerances. When we tested our safety with the Geissele Triggers they work fine but as we found out later that some will not work without some fitting. We suspect it is due to the small amount of tolerance variance from the casting (normally +/-.005" for quality casting). Our safety selector centers normally will not vary very much since all surfaces are machined from billet bar stock on automated Swiss Screw Machines that holds easily +/-.0005" tolerance. Note that the issue can also be the relative positioning of the safety selector hole and trigger hole in the lower receiver and nothing to do with the trigger or the safety. The stacking tolerances between the holes can impact the trigger and safety engagement as well. The problem can also be a stacking tolerance issue from a combination of all the above. We have contacted Geissele about it and see if they would machine the rear top portion of the trigger rear tang to control tolerance so we can eliminate some of these stacking tolerance issues. We are still waiting to hear back. Please note that we are not saying there is something wrong with the Geissele trigger or our product. Both products have deviated from Mil-Spec in order to innovate. When we do this, surface(s) that is not a critical tolerance or fell within acceptable tolerance when in combination with another Mil-Spec part can now be in conflict. I hope that answers your question. If you're not happy with anything please give us a call on Monday when we re-open (9am-4pm PST) and we would be happy to take care of you and be sure you're 100% satisfied. Thank you. |
President, Battle Arms Development, Inc.
www.BattleArmsDevelopment.com
www.BattleArmsDevelopment.com
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Thanks for the reply. On a Saturday even... 
I'm not about to start shaving material off components to make things work. From what I was reading, people have had this combination work especially with the old center (the 45 degree, not the new 50-90) Do you still have these/make these? Is the bad-ass-st compatible with the ssa. This is just very frustrating knowing that others have had this combination work perfectly and I'm stuck in th dark with it. I bought your forged lower for the purpose of using this exact safety and for it not to work with one of the most popular triggers after your revision is mind boggling. I understand this was designed for a "mil-spec", but come on.....who runs a mil spec trigger... Isn't your company all about going above and beyond mil spec? Still like your products, just have a little bad taste in my mouth right now. I hope you guys can work something out for the future because I know I'm not the only one who has had this problem or wishes to run this combo Thanks |
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No rest for the weary... Send over an email to [email protected] about the safety issue with the Geissele Trigger and mention AR15.com, I will have someone contact you Monday to get you taken care of. Don't forget to leave your phone #, mailing address, etc. |
President, Battle Arms Development, Inc.
www.BattleArmsDevelopment.com
www.BattleArmsDevelopment.com
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Originally Posted By wdigeorge:
No rest for the weary... Send over an email to [email protected] about the safety issue with the Geissele Trigger and mention AR15.com, I will have someone contact you Monday to get you taken care of. Don't forget to leave your phone #, mailing address, etc. Sent. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. |
| George, you need to address this on your end. It isn't just with Geissele triggers, I have the same problem with a LaRue MBT. This is only with the new TiNi coated cores, too, because the Geissele SD-C I have with a phosphated core CASS-ST works fine. Why did you change something that was working fine, and why are you guys trying to pass the buck on this one? I have a $90 safety selector I can't use, and for that kind of money I shouldn't have to fit it, it should run out of the box. We're not talking custom 1911s here. |
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Originally Posted By naverno: George, you need to address this on your end. It isn't just with Geissele triggers, I have the same problem with a LaRue MBT. This is only with the new TiNi coated cores, too, because the Geissele SD-C I have with a phosphated core CASS-ST works fine. Why did you change something that was working fine, and why are you guys trying to pass the buck on this one? I have a $90 safety selector I can't use, and for that kind of money I shouldn't have to fit it, it should run out of the box. We're not talking custom 1911s here. naverno, There is a reason for everything we do. I don't have personal experience with the LaRue MBT but from the images online it is certainly not a "mil-spec" design and the rear portion of the trigger tang is also extremely different and unusually thick/tall. I gather that is why you are having trouble. There is nothing wrong with how they designed it. It is their choice, if it work with "Mil-Spec" AR15 safety. Our products will work with "Mil-Spec" AR15 trigger, that is the only thing that we have an obligation to make compatible when we make an AR15 safety. If our safety doesn't work with the standard AR15 trigger then we are obligated to fix it, but that is not the issue here. It is good to be compatible with all aftermarket triggers, but since we are all independent companies, each making our own decisions, sometimes the combination of our products will not simply drop-in and work. We have never "pass the buck", ever. I will try not to take offense to that. We were the first company to make modifications to our safety selector years back when people were having issues with the Geissele trigger tangs being too wide. We had no obligation to, but we did it because we can and because we see no other down side from doing so. There is no obligation for LaRue to make their product compatible with ours nor ours with theirs. I would love to collaborate and make them compatible but don't mistake that for an obligation. Have you contacted us before about your issue? I don't want you to have a $90 safety that doesn't work. We would be happy to get you a center that works with your trigger or refund your money. When you buy one of our products you can be assured that you're not left unsupported. |
President, Battle Arms Development, Inc.
www.BattleArmsDevelopment.com
www.BattleArmsDevelopment.com
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I feel like I have to say something here to back up what George is saying. Not related to their safeties, but representative of their customer service. I had a failed (excessive) headspace issue and automatically assumed that it was the new BAD LightRigid barrel I had just bought. I was also having feeding issues using snap caps. I contacted BAD, got an immediate response, and we forged a plan. Long story short, the barrel was fine and it was the bolt that was out of spec. But Jay at BAD, just to be sure for the feeding issue, reinstalled the barrel on the upper, and polished the feed ramps for me and sent it all back with a BAD cap. This was never their problem, but they took the time to help troubleshoot the issue and do extra work just to help me be successful with this build. All this with a lot of their staff at the NRA meeting. The feeding issue was due to a problem with the receiver extension, again, not BAD's problem. I cannot emphasize enough that I am not their best customer in terms of money spent with them, but BAD makes me feel like I'm the top dog.
If you're having an issue with one of BAD's parts, contact them. They have demonstrated exemplary customer service in every way for me. |