Official LaRue MBT Trigger review thread - bunch added (Page 6 of 9)
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I'll add my own little informal testing results here. I bought one of the Strike Industries trigger test jigs a few months back. When my MBT order finally arrived, I thought I would perform the following test.
1) Standard milspec trigger 2) PSA EPT trigger 3) Larue MBT trigger I used the Strike Industries jig and a Lyman electronic trigger gauge. Each trigger was pulled ten times and each pull recorded. An average and std deviation was calculated for each trigger data set. Here is the data: Milspec: P1 8lbs 5.5oz P2 8lbs 8.0 oz P3 8lbs 11.0 oz P4 9lbs 1.0 oz P5 7lbs 15.5 oz P6 8lbs 11.0 oz P7 7lbs 4.5 oz P8 7lbs 13.0 oz P9 8lbs 8.0 oz P10 7lbs 5.0 oz AVG 8lbs 3.5 oz PSA EPT P1 7lbs 3.5oz P2 6lbs 7.0 oz P3 7lbs 6.0 oz P4 7lbs 9.5oz P5 7lbs 6.0 oz P6 5lbs 14.5 oz P7 7lbs 1.0 oz P8 6lbs 12.0 oz P9 6lbs 9.5 oz P10 7lbs 12.0 oz AVG 7lbs 0.0 oz Larue MBT P1 4lbs 11.0 oz P2 4lbs 10.4 oz P3 4lbs 7.0 oz P4 4lbs 13.0 oz P5 4lbs 14.3 oz P6 5lbs 1.0 oz P7 4lbs 15.2 oz P8 4lbs 10.1 oz P9 4lbs 12.3 oz P10 4lbs 14.6 oz AVG 4lbs 12.4 oz As the data above shows, the MBT was the most consistent and the other trtiggers showed significantly greater variability from pull to pull of the trigger weight. I decided to look at the standard deviation to get an idea of how this looked from a numbers perspective. Standard Deviation is simply defined as a measure of the variability of the data set. Standard Deviation milspec 9.62 PSA EPT 9.22 Larue MBT 2.95 I thought this was interesting because not only does the MBT have a lighter pull, it is more consistent from pull to pull than the other triggers tested. TL;DR Larue MBT is more better than either mil spec or PSA EPT triggers 
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Originally Posted By steveday72:
I found my question about the slot above the disconnector regaining pin on page 6 of this thread... Others have it as well and is suspected to be a change from milling/drilling the pin hole to cutting it with wire EDM (the slot is the entry and exit point of the cutting wire). The problem of my trigger & hammer never making contact in the 1st stage is unrelated of course. Originally Posted By steveday72:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
---------->8---------- snip ----------8<---------- ALSO - something I noticed that might or might not be intentional in the design... there is a thin gap (crack?) directly above the disconnector retaining pin on both sides. Possibly a running change in manufacture so that the pin gets some lubrication, but may have cracked because there was not enough metal between the pin's hole and the upper surface of the trigger bar.??  LaRue will probably know the answer to this question straight away.
I found my question about the slot above the disconnector regaining pin on page 6 of this thread... Others have it as well and is suspected to be a change from milling/drilling the pin hole to cutting it with wire EDM (the slot is the entry and exit point of the cutting wire). The problem of my trigger & hammer never making contact in the 1st stage is unrelated of course. I replied to your "It's a dud"'email asking if you took it out of that trigger jig and put it in a rifle yet. |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I replied to your "It's a dud"'email asking if you took it out of that trigger jig and put it in a rifle yet. Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
---------->8---------- snip ----------8<---------- ALSO - something I noticed that might or might not be intentional in the design... there is a thin gap (crack?) directly above the disconnector retaining pin on both sides. Possibly a running change in manufacture so that the pin gets some lubrication, but may have cracked because there was not enough metal between the pin's hole and the upper surface of the trigger bar.?? LaRue will probably know the answer to this question straight away.
I found my question about the slot above the disconnector regaining pin on page 6 of this thread... Others have it as well and is suspected to be a change from milling/drilling the pin hole to cutting it with wire EDM (the slot is the entry and exit point of the cutting wire). The problem of my trigger & hammer never making contact in the 1st stage is unrelated of course. I replied to your "It's a dud"'email asking if you took it out of that trigger jig and put it in a rifle yet. Thanks Mark - I replied via email because of the number of photos attached to the message. I installed it into an Aero Precision lower and got the same result - though of course it was much more difficult to tell because there were no cut-outs in the receiver like there is in the jig. I had tomremove the spring on the hammer and apply a manual load on it, then with a flash light I was able to "just" see that the surfaces were not touching and could wedge a bent probe/pick between the two when they were supposed to be locked up. I had a couple of #24 drill rod lengths, which I inserted into both the jig and the AP receiver, going right through to see if the jig was out-of-spec. The drill rod slid thru both units without any interference at all. I then measured the diagonals (inside and outside of the drill rods) of both the jig and the AP lower - they were within 0.05mm (the tolerance of the digital calipers). Still needing more conclusive proof, I then painted some red model paint on the contact point of the hammer and some white on the trigger. It showed that only the very tips were touching and only after the 2nd stage had tripped. I could manually push the hammer down until the sear of the 1st stage was just hanging onto the very lip of the hammer ... resulting in even a slight bump to the receiver releasing the hammer. The result ... same as in the jig - the MBT is only working on the 2nd stage and the 1st stage makes no contact until after the hammer is already released - then it just barely touches the trigger sear as it flies by. |
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^^^
And I can't tell nuttin' from the pics so I'm guessing, if it's possible, we must've installed the disconnector upside down and backwards. 
I want that one back in the trigger shop for analysis ... will send you out a fresh baked one with a return label. |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Got my MBT in yesterday, and couldn't wait to get it installed. Put it in my DMRish rifle, and oh man.
Initial impressions, keep in mind this is my first "nice" trigger, but dang. Assembly and installation was easy, dropped right in to a Spikes lower. The trigger itself is dang nice. Breaks clean, and I know I said I never owned a nice trigger, but I obviously didn't know just what a 4.5 lb break felt like. I think I may compare the heavier spring, as I'd like a little heavier first stage, but when it breaks, it's a surprise, in a good way. Can't wait to get out on the range and try it out. Thanks Larue, another fantastic product and another satisfied trigger puller. I'll try and update with some targets (provided I can shoot up to the rifle's level. |
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I am very impressed with the one I got a while back in Feburary. Much more of a glass break than my SSA-E.
That one was to go into my 18" Steath build but while waiting on my LMT lower a buddy asked for help building an AR...So nice guy me sold it to him, right before I got my lower. Ordered another a couple weeks ago for my replacement, hopefully I won't have to wait too long. Also I don't understand the people saying the reset it too soft with the light spring. It feels good to me with a definite click when released. |
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Originally Posted By steveday72:
Thanks Mark - I replied via email because of the number of photos attached to the message. I installed it into an Aero Precision lower and got the same result - though of course it was much more difficult to tell because there were no cut-outs in the receiver like there is in the jig. I had tomremove the spring on the hammer and apply a manual load on it, then with a flash light I was able to "just" see that the surfaces were not touching and could wedge a bent probe/pick between the two when they were supposed to be locked up. I had a couple of #24 drill rod lengths, which I inserted into both the jig and the AP receiver, going right through to see if the jig was out-of-spec. The drill rod slid thru both units without any interference at all. I then measured the diagonals (inside and outside of the drill rods) of both the jig and the AP lower - they were within 0.05mm (the tolerance of the digital calipers). Still needing more conclusive proof, I then painted some red model paint on the contact point of the hammer and some white on the trigger. It showed that only the very tips were touching and only after the 2nd stage had tripped. I could manually push the hammer down until the sear of the 1st stage was just hanging onto the very lip of the hammer ... resulting in even a slight bump to the receiver releasing the hammer. The result ... same as in the jig - the MBT is only working on the 2nd stage and the 1st stage makes no contact until after the hammer is already released - then it just barely touches the trigger sear as it flies by. Originally Posted By steveday72:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
---------->8---------- snip ----------8<---------- ALSO - something I noticed that might or might not be intentional in the design... there is a thin gap (crack?) directly above the disconnector retaining pin on both sides. Possibly a running change in manufacture so that the pin gets some lubrication, but may have cracked because there was not enough metal between the pin's hole and the upper surface of the trigger bar.?? LaRue will probably know the answer to this question straight away.
I found my question about the slot above the disconnector regaining pin on page 6 of this thread... Others have it as well and is suspected to be a change from milling/drilling the pin hole to cutting it with wire EDM (the slot is the entry and exit point of the cutting wire). The problem of my trigger & hammer never making contact in the 1st stage is unrelated of course. I replied to your "It's a dud"'email asking if you took it out of that trigger jig and put it in a rifle yet. Thanks Mark - I replied via email because of the number of photos attached to the message. I installed it into an Aero Precision lower and got the same result - though of course it was much more difficult to tell because there were no cut-outs in the receiver like there is in the jig. I had tomremove the spring on the hammer and apply a manual load on it, then with a flash light I was able to "just" see that the surfaces were not touching and could wedge a bent probe/pick between the two when they were supposed to be locked up. I had a couple of #24 drill rod lengths, which I inserted into both the jig and the AP receiver, going right through to see if the jig was out-of-spec. The drill rod slid thru both units without any interference at all. I then measured the diagonals (inside and outside of the drill rods) of both the jig and the AP lower - they were within 0.05mm (the tolerance of the digital calipers). Still needing more conclusive proof, I then painted some red model paint on the contact point of the hammer and some white on the trigger. It showed that only the very tips were touching and only after the 2nd stage had tripped. I could manually push the hammer down until the sear of the 1st stage was just hanging onto the very lip of the hammer ... resulting in even a slight bump to the receiver releasing the hammer. The result ... same as in the jig - the MBT is only working on the 2nd stage and the 1st stage makes no contact until after the hammer is already released - then it just barely touches the trigger sear as it flies by. Got it and it's in great shape ... so I suspect the one we sent is gonna look exactly the same ... put it in and have someone pull it s few times. 
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I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Got it and it's in great shape ... so I suspect the one we sent is gonna look exactly the same ... put it in and have someone pull it s few times. Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
Originally Posted By steveday72:
---------->8---------- snip ----------8<---------- ---------->8---------- snip ----------8<---------- ---------->8---------- snip ----------8<---------- ---------->8---------- snip ----------8<---------- Got it and it's in great shape ... so I suspect the one we sent is gonna look exactly the same ... put it in and have someone pull it s few times. Yes Mark, the replacement also has a 1mm gap between the traditional (single stage) trigger sear and hammer. I got an email from member Mechanize ... he explained to me that the traditional hook&sear which I referred to as the 1st stage is only there as a backup on the MBT in case the main sear hook fails. 
Silly me - I thought a 2-stage trigger had two separate sear/hook interfaces - with the first being much lighter than the second. Now it's been explained to me that the 2nd stage is really just the disconector trying to push the sear+hook back into place. Technically you could turn a single-stage milspec trigger (ie: remove material) into a "two-stage" trigger just by redefine some geometry ... adjust it so the disconnector is putting tension on the hammer after a short amount of take-up. I did see it shown on an AGI video once. I'll have to give it a regarding sometime. |
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Just got my MBT as well, once I finish painting my lower this will be going in! I am very excited to do so.
Quick question for all of you guys though, Is it alright for the hammer and trigger spring legs to be uneven? Both of the supplied trigger spring legs are offset. The hammer spring legs are offset a wee bit as well. The only reason I ask is because the other trigger guy said that if the hammer spring legs aren't even then it results in your shot group circumference widening. Can a trigger guru (Mr. Larue ahem) chime in on this? or is this just FUD? |
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Posted this in AR Discussion last night but figured I'd put it here too. I purchased my 2nd MBT this morning and encouraging some co-workers to take the plunge who have been put off by $200 triggers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Got my MBT today. Some serious swag was included which is great as usual. Pulled the SSA out of my .300 BLK SBR and unscientifically compared the 2 side by side before installing the MBT. -The pinned disconnector is a nice touch and one less item to worry about keeping up with -Trigger install isn't hard but the MBT seemed a little easier with pinned discon and little less resistance pushing pins (I've had times where my thumb is killing me from holding that hammer in place and struggling to get the pin started) -The take up on stage 1 is superb. This was my biggest takeaway and immediate feature I liked. MBT took less muscle to pull through first stage before a crisp break. -The wide trigger feels good on finger pad -Clean break -First stage take up is phenomenal with equivalent break to current competing triggers -I like the wide trigger -Value at $125 is incredible and I'll probably buy at least one more to try on my precision rig    |
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Originally Posted By heavymetal762:
Mark! What order number are you up to???? Hell, I don't know, that action-item is further in the weeds than I wanna be.
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I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Hell, I don't know, that action-item is further in the weeds than I wanna be. Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By heavymetal762:
Mark! What order number are you up to???? Hell, I don't know, that action-item is further in the weeds than I wanna be. I think your still in Feb orders though you might be in March by now. Nobody has updated the other thread in a while. Still waiting on my 3-22 order so I KNOW your not in April yet.
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My momma always said I'd loose my head if it wasn't attached. Now that I've lost my mind it isn't as funny as it used to be.
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Originally Posted By Wolfhound76:
I think your still in Feb orders though you might be in March by now. Nobody has updated the other thread in a while. Still waiting on my 3-22 order so I KNOW your not in April yet.
Originally Posted By Wolfhound76:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By heavymetal762:
Mark! What order number are you up to???? Hell, I don't know, that action-item is further in the weeds than I wanna be. I think your still in Feb orders though you might be in March by now. Nobody has updated the other thread in a while. Still waiting on my 3-22 order so I KNOW your not in April yet.
We're wading into the first of the April orders tomorrow. |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Oh yeah, forgot about this thread.
Took my Black Gold out a couple weeks ago and put in the MBT I won at Christmas. I ended up selling the Black Gold and ordered more MBT's 
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"Skeletons aint got nowhere to stick their money, nobody makes britches that size" M. Cooley
"We can be friends or I can kick your ass, you decide" R. Connor
"We can be friends or I can kick your ass, you decide" R. Connor
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Originally Posted By Soconmtneer:
Oh yeah, forgot about this thread. Took my Black Gold out a couple weeks ago and put in the MBT I won at Christmas. I ended up selling the Black Gold and ordered more MBT's I'm fairly certain if all the MBT tins that have gone out our door to date were butted up against each other in one long line - we're over 1,000 yards of MBTs. |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I'm fairly certain if all the MBT tins that have gone out our door to date were butted up against each other in one long line - we're over 1,000 yards of MBTs. Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Soconmtneer:
Oh yeah, forgot about this thread. Took my Black Gold out a couple weeks ago and put in the MBT I won at Christmas. I ended up selling the Black Gold and ordered more MBT's I'm fairly certain if all the MBT tins that have gone out our door to date were butted up against each other in one long line - we're over 1,000 yards of MBTs. Stacking them Quick measurement shows an MBT can is 2.175" tall 1,000 yds is 36,000 inches / 2.175" = 16,552 MBT Cans 
3.215 across Butted up would be 1,000yds so 36,000 inches / 3.215 = 11,197 MBT Cans. Almost 12,000 MBT's sold I think you should go for a stacked to the moon competition. ETA you said butted. |
"Skeletons aint got nowhere to stick their money, nobody makes britches that size" M. Cooley
"We can be friends or I can kick your ass, you decide" R. Connor
"We can be friends or I can kick your ass, you decide" R. Connor
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Originally Posted By Soconmtneer:
Stacking them Quick measurement shows an MBT can is 2.175" tall 1,000 yds is 36,000 inches / 2.175" = 16,552 MBT Cans
3.215 across Butted up would be 1,000yds so 36,000 inches / 3.215 = 11,197 MBT Cans. Almost 12,000 MBT's sold I think you should go for a stacked to the moon competition. ETA you said butted. Originally Posted By Soconmtneer:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Soconmtneer:
Oh yeah, forgot about this thread. Took my Black Gold out a couple weeks ago and put in the MBT I won at Christmas. I ended up selling the Black Gold and ordered more MBT's I'm fairly certain if all the MBT tins that have gone out our door to date were butted up against each other in one long line - we're over 1,000 yards of MBTs. Stacking them Quick measurement shows an MBT can is 2.175" tall 1,000 yds is 36,000 inches / 2.175" = 16,552 MBT Cans
3.215 across Butted up would be 1,000yds so 36,000 inches / 3.215 = 11,197 MBT Cans. Almost 12,000 MBT's sold I think you should go for a stacked to the moon competition. ETA you said butted. MBT, it appears the word is getting heard across spacious skies, across amber waves of grain, from our purple mountain majesties, to well above our fruited plain. Not bad for an old country boy that was supposed to leave trigger making to the barrel makers ...
I want my, I want want my, I want my M - B - T
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I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
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Originally Posted By jjman15: When did you order? Trying to see where i'm at in the 2 weeks 3-4 week lead time Originally Posted By jjman15: Originally Posted By Taboot: Just got mine Monday. I had all but forgotten about it. Installed no sweat. Great trigger pull! Top notch Mark. When did you order? Trying to see where i'm at in the 2 weeks 3-4 week lead time |
vidi vici veni
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A peek behind the ol' trigger curtain ...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1884744_LaRue_s_Great_Trigger_Hall___time_lapse_video___July_UHFO.html |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
| So I got bored tonight and did another test with my trigger pull gauge. I did this initially when i got it, but now that I have around 500 rounds down range with it I decided to see how consistent it was after it was "broken in" a little. Pulled the trigger gauge 50 times and believe it or not the widest spread between all 50 pulls was 1.8 ounces. Average was 3.28 pounds. Initial test when I first received it was an average of 3.34 pounds with the widest spread on 50 pulls of 3.4 ounces. Best trigger I have ever used without question. Glad I have another shipping out today! |
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First one ordered. Now for the long wait. Will be going in my new MPX (as I read Mark mention in another thread there should be no issues). Can't wait to see how she shoots relative to my SSAs.
Cool video on the shop buildout Mark. |
PACK Larue
Team Ranstad
NRA Life Member
Team Ranstad
NRA Life Member
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Originally Posted By zyx5432:
First one ordered. Now for the long wait. Will be going in my new MPX (as I read Mark mention in another thread there should be no issues). Can't wait to see how she shoots relative to my SSAs. Cool video on the shop buildout Mark. We're tickled the Trigger Room video has run up past 5,000 views. |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel,
and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML
|
So two more came today Now, I read the 12 pages an still have a question.
So the numbers on the triggers aren't serial numbers. Are the numbers lot numbers? 33016 an 43016 came today an two 60816 ones came in Jan (still waiting on lowers). The others are in rifles. |
LaRue made "ME" do it!
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Originally Posted By vwfred69:
got my completed order confirmation @12 days It shipped in 12 days?? I've been wanting to order one just wondering how long they take when you choose the wait option |
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Galatians 5:1
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Originally Posted By woodxdm:
It shipped in 12 days?? I've been wanting to order one just wondering how long they take when you choose the wait option Originally Posted By woodxdm:
Originally Posted By vwfred69:
got my completed order confirmation @12 days It shipped in 12 days?? I've been wanting to order one just wondering how long they take when you choose the wait option supposed to be delivered tomorrow |
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Originally Posted By leelaw:
Ordered three on the 19th, received shipping confirmation minutes ago. Better get the "I've got plenty of time!" Pricing before they realize they're almost shipping next day! Just placed my order, now I'll sit here and anxiously wait
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It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Galatians 5:1