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Posted: 10/6/2024 7:53:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ramcharger_pilot]
I'm reading lots of internet search results here and other places and watching videos. I'm just a tech but plan on testing for general soon. Have been playing with a QT40 on 10 and 11 meter listening for the most part. Using a 1/4 wave speaker wire antenna with 4 radials. My nano nva shows low 1 to 1.2 swr but the gain is -20? Is that possible? It's not a great set up but I can hear well. Ground radials are about 45 degrees to the vertical and tied to tent stakes about 6 inches above ground.
Have an IC 7300 on the way. Want to put up a wire through the trees and thinking of a EFHW for 40 meters. The hill I live on is rocky in the foothills of the Ozark Mountains north of Tulsa OK. Looking for recommendations for a favorite wire antenna over rocky ground with relatively short oak trees on a hill. Or do you recommend something else? I know antenna choices are almost endless and I should just start building them and experiment. What would you do? ETA forgot a picture. The front yard is higher and a better place. This gives you an idea.  Attached FileETA2. Old picture with the radials on the ground. |
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Posted: 10/6/2024 8:02:09 PM EDT
[#1]
If funds and room were not an issue, I would have a 5 element beam 60 feet up on a tower, with an 80m dipole hanging of the same tower.
 I have a 40m EFHW, and I like it. It was my only antenna for a while. Works well in a sloper, the transformer is 4' off the ground, and the other end is about 35' up. I also have a DX Commander classic, 40m to 2m, though I won't use it for that. It's a great antenna as well. |
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Posted: 10/6/2024 8:43:47 PM EDT
[#2]
You have nature towers all over the place. If you want a simple effective antenna, put up a fan dipole with elements cut for bands you wish. The internal tuner in the 7300 will allow you to work the entire band. The 40m element can aslo be used on 15m. Get the center up high as possible, the legs can slope to an inverted V of you can't hang it horizontal. It will work fine either way. Not sure how far your shack will be from your planned antenna sight, but if its a very long run, you may want to try something with balanced feed line to negate the loss from coax. But for a new General its hard to beat a simple wire dipole starting out.
Use some good dacron rope & it will last for years. |
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Posted: 10/6/2024 9:00:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ramcharger_pilot]
[#3]
Thanks. Better pictures of the front and back. Thinking my shed will be the dinning room table for now. Will need to unhook when not in use for lightning protection.
 Attached File Attached FileETA It is higher elevation towards the front yard. (South) ETA 2 Have been running the radio on the back side North on the deck. Dinning room is the windows in the 2nd picture front yard. |
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Posted: 10/6/2024 10:13:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Frank_B]
[#4]
There's a 40 Meter End-Fed kit available for $80 if you're a DIYer. LINK Instructions can be downloaded at the link.
A 40 Meter dipole with a 20 meter dipole slung under it will also give you 15 Meters "for free". LINK You can improve the match on 15 by using capacitance hats. LINK Inverted Vee antenna |
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Posted: 10/6/2024 10:33:39 PM EDT
[#5]
How big is the shed?
Multiband vertical on the roof using the shed as a ground plane can be effective. Sometimes you can get noise if there's corrosion between the metal panels. |
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Posted: 10/6/2024 11:46:22 PM EDT
[#6]
With those trees, you have a choice of just about anything you want.
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Posted: 10/7/2024 7:07:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: How big is the shed? Multiband vertical on the roof using the shed as a ground plane can be effective. Sometimes you can get noise if there's corrosion between the metal panels. There us a 30 x 40 shed on the other side of the house. It's about 50 feet from the house. I've thought about setting up out there but it's too hot in the summer. |
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Posted: 10/7/2024 7:12:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frank_B: There's a 40 Meter End-Fed kit available for $80 if you're a DIYer. LINK Instructions can be downloaded at the link. A 40 Meter dipole with a 20 meter dipole slung under it will also give you 15 Meters "for free". LINK You can improve the match on 15 by using capacitance hats. LINK Inverted Vee antenna I've watched several videos on making the transformer for the EFHW. I could get the kit in the first link or buy the parts separately. Thanks everyone. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/7/2024 9:00:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: illini52]
[#9]
If you just want 40m, build a dipole. It will be better then the EFHW, less possibility for RF getting back to your shack and you don't need the balun. If you want multiple bands, try a fan dipole as suggested above. You have some great property there for antennas. End feds are fine ( I have one), but they have some issues to be aware of. This page has some good info to include the calculator for making one to cover multiple bands. https://www.k7mem.com/Ant_End_Fed.html
Read your post again and saw that you might just try building different antennas over time. I would definitely encourage that! It's fun, relatively inexpensive, and you'll learn a lot. |
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Posted: 10/7/2024 9:38:14 AM EDT
[#10]
I have a G90 as well as 7300, my primary antenna is the EFHW kit sold by ARRL, if you can do basic soldering you can build the kit. It is a long wire and have it anchored in a tree much like your location, picks up multiple bands and work great.
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Posted: 10/7/2024 10:38:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By illini52: If you just want 40m, build a dipole. It will be better then the EFHW, less possibility for RF getting back to your shack and you don't need the balun. If you want multiple bands, try a fan dipole as suggested above. You have some great property there for antennas. End feds are fine ( I have one), but they have some issues to be aware of. This page has some good info to include the calculator for making one to cover multiple bands. https://www.k7mem.com/Ant_End_Fed.html Read your post again and saw that you might just try building different antennas over time. I would definitely encourage that! It's fun, relatively inexpensive, and you'll learn a lot. Seems like I need at least a choke on a half wave dipole. I'm going to try one. |
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Posted: 10/7/2024 2:42:09 PM EDT
[#12]
@Ramcharger_pilot
Also research a 40M full wave loop in horizontal configuration. (on top of the trees) 73, Rob |
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Posted: 10/7/2024 2:53:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By robmkivseries70: @Ramcharger_pilot Also research a 40M full wave loop in horizontal configuration. (on top of the trees) 73, Rob Forgot about that. Heard a guy talking on one and he sounded great. So 33 feet on a side give or take in a big square. Thanks. I'll look it up again. |
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Posted: 10/7/2024 3:02:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By robmkivseries70: @Ramcharger_pilot Also research a 40M full wave loop in horizontal configuration. (on top of the trees) 73, Rob That is what I would have if I had the room. |
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Posted: 10/7/2024 3:19:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Looks more like 36 feet on a side. I remember looking at the trees and it will take a little effort to make the full loop. Thinking I'll try a coax wrap around some pvc pipe for a choke. Have 330 feet of antenna rope on the way.
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Posted: 10/8/2024 12:24:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Your lot screams horizontal loop. I’d do a 160m loop if you have the space. 80m loop if you can’t fit a 160m. My 80m loop is my best 40m antenna. Better than dipole, EFHW and 1/4 wave vertical that I have tried and compared. Took all those other ones down.
The 80m horizontal delta loop is an excellent DX antenna on 10-20m, really good on 40m and top performer on 80m for NVIS. I can not recommend it enough. |
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Posted: 10/8/2024 8:14:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tyrex13: Your lot screams horizontal loop. I’d do a 160m loop if you have the space. 80m loop if you can’t fit a 160m. My 80m loop is my best 40m antenna. Better than dipole, EFHW and 1/4 wave vertical that I have tried and compared. Took all those other ones down. The 80m horizontal delta loop is an excellent DX antenna on 10-20m, really good on 40m and top performer on 80m for NVIS. I can not recommend it enough. I like this notion. 73, Rob |
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Posted: 10/8/2024 9:07:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tyrex13: Your lot screams horizontal loop. I’d do a 160m loop if you have the space. 80m loop if you can’t fit a 160m. My 80m loop is my best 40m antenna. Better than dipole, EFHW and 1/4 wave vertical that I have tried and compared. Took all those other ones down. The 80m horizontal delta loop is an excellent DX antenna on 10-20m, really good on 40m and top performer on 80m for NVIS. I can not recommend it enough. Everything I've read or watched recommends a transformer or BalUn. I'll order the magnet wire and torrid today. Or do you recommend something else? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2024 10:53:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot:...Using a 1/4 wave speaker wire antenna with 4 radials. My nano nva shows low 1 to 1.2 swr but the gain is -20? Is that possible?... The -20 (Db) is not a loss of gain, but the "Return Loss". This is just a different way of describing VSWR. A higher number for return loss means less of a reflection. If you do a internet search for "Return loss to VSWR" it will be clear. Rege |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2024 11:03:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Everything I've read or watched recommends a transformer or BalUn. I'll order the magnet wire and torrid today. Or do you recommend something else? You may find this book useful. "Transmission Line Transformers", it's all about baluns and ununs. https://archive.org/details/fe_Ham_Radio_Transmission_Line_Transformers_Handbook/mode/1up Rege |
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Posted: 10/8/2024 11:05:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Everything I've read or watched recommends a transformer or BalUn. I'll order the magnet wire and torrid today. Or do you recommend something else? @Ramcharger_pilot My choice for feeding loops is ladder line and a tuner with a 1:1 balun on the output. 73, Rob |
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Posted: 10/8/2024 1:16:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Everything I've read or watched recommends a transformer or BalUn. I'll order the magnet wire and torrid today. Or do you recommend something else? I use the MyAntennas MyLoop balun. I’m using a Balun Designs balun for my 40m vertical delta loop. |
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Posted: 10/8/2024 10:48:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Everything I've read or watched recommends a transformer or BalUn. I'll order the magnet wire and torrid today. Or do you recommend something else? For a loop antenna, a 4:1 balun will work. For something like an ocfd, you would use a 4:1 unun. |
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Posted: 10/10/2024 8:18:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Found this today. Says a rectangle loop doesn't need a transformer if attached at the narrow end. The picture might be from an old ARRL magazine. Was on world wide dx.
Any thoughts? Got a 240 torrid and magnet wire in today and could make a 2:1 balun and square loop instead.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/11/2024 6:25:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Got an Inverted V dipole up this afternoon. Lot's of limbs in the way for a full loop but I'll try later.
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Posted: 10/11/2024 8:09:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Got an Inverted V dipole up this afternoon. Lot's of limbs in the way for a full loop but I'll try later. Nice! Bands aren’t great to be of recent solar events, so don’t get discouraged. |
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Posted: 10/11/2024 8:44:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Had a Southern California contact while the woman was running on the treadmill. I'm going to start throwing up lines for a full wave loop.
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Posted: 10/11/2024 10:04:16 PM EDT
[#28]
My treadmill is hella noisy on 40 lol
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Posted: 10/12/2024 3:13:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Frank_B]
[#29]
Dupe, deleted
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Posted: 10/12/2024 3:17:33 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/12/2024 8:29:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Frank_B: Ham Radio Outlet, DX Engineering, The Wireman and Gigaparts carry antenna components and wire. Buying stuff from DX. Got bling. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2024 2:15:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Found this today. Says a rectangle loop doesn't need a transformer if attached at the narrow end. The picture might be from an old ARRL magazine. Was on world wide dx. Any thoughts? Got a 240 torrid and magnet wire in today and could make a 2:1 balun and square loop instead. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/262615/1000000605_jpg-3346091.JPG These oblong loops work great for 2m ssb, scaled down of course. Handy and portable.  Oblong loop antenna for 144 MHz SSB and WSPR |
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