Deer rifle for my daughter? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/8/2024 6:45:33 PM EDT
|
I'm taking my daughter out for her first rifle season this year and I'm having a devil of a time finding something that she can handle effectively. She's a little on the smaller side for her age and I've had her try multiple different firearms and nothing fits her well. The one option that I have is a 90's NEF Pardner break action 20ga. I don't really want to have her go at it with slugs, no rear site, and a smooth barrel, but I got to thinking....... Do any of you know if I can just buy a 308 (or something of that nature) barrel and swap it for the 20ga? Any and all input is helpful. Thanks, -CM |
| There are much better deer calibers than .308 for young ones. I would look for a youth model .243 with iron sights or stick a low buck PA red dot on it. Stop into pawn shops, leave contact info. Most used guns are shot less than 100 rounds. |
|
I can’t imagine deer hunting with a shotgun. Gross. How old is she? Is she recoil sensitive? A .308 works, but I love .243 for kids. 7mm-08 is another excellent choice, as is 6.5 grendel. If you want something you’ll love too, get a 6mm ARC… I shot one this weekend and suffered instant gun envy. My niece was a little bitty thing and struggled to get a decent sight picture with anything close to standard LOP. She used one of my ARs with an adjustable stock mostly retracted and it worked well (62gr soft points or 75gr tipped). My father in law gave my boys single shot .243s, but they were abysmally inaccurate (plus my freakishly large offspring outgrew them instantly). |
Not fly enough to be halal....
|
Try a Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel. Sweet shooting cartridge, accurate rifle, light and sufficient up to cow elk within 250 yards. |
"You want perfection, or nothing. The revolution was never perfect....We fight because we believe, we leave because we are disilliusioned, we come back because we are lost, we die because we are committed.
- Jesus Raza, The Professionals
- Jesus Raza, The Professionals
|
In general Minnesota deer where the OP is are darn big on up to HUGE. To me this negates anything below 6.5 and it negates the Grendel. In 6.5’s either the 6.5x 55 with 140 SST’s or Ballistic Tios would be dandy. Same goes for the 6.5 CM If you move up to 7mm the 7x 57 and 7-08 with 140’s are also low recoil. If you can find one the 300 Savage is a dandy. If you need to reduce felt recoil there are things you can do such as fitting the stock to her LOP which helps immensely. The other is to drill out the butt stock and put one or two mercury recoil reducers in there. You can also hog out the fro t end and epoxy lead shit in there to add weight. Also you can add a few ounces with a heavier scope or add a brake. Hope you figure it out and she has a great hunt. |
|
Find a used 243 bolt and chop the stock so a big soft recoil pad be fitted still leaving the gun short for her. Save what you chop off to put back on if she gets bigger, When the single shots were in production it was reasonably cheap to ship the gun back to have different caliber barrels fitted. I believe that at this point all production has stopped and new barrels are steep priced custom only jobs (but I might be wrong) Couple of years back I was looking for a gun for my niece who is fairly small and I came across a Mosberg bolt action on the used rack. don't know much about it but expect it might be imported from turkey and just labeled "Mosberg" Youth sized with a very smooth bolt throw and a pretty nice off the shelf trigger . Plain hardwood (birch?) stock and kind of budget fit and finish . I found it used in good shape at a real budget price . If I remember it was $249 with rings and a budget 3-9x scope. 243 is in a sweat spot being plenty of power for deer or hogs but hardly more recoil than a .223 |
|
Originally Posted By Hasher1: In general Minnesota deer where the OP is are darn big on up to HUGE. To me this negates anything below 6.5 and it negates the Grendel. In 6.5’s either the 6.5x 55 with 140 SST’s or Ballistic Tios would be dandy. Same goes for the 6.5 CM If you move up to 7mm the 7x 57 and 7-08 with 140’s are also low recoil. If you can find one the 300 Savage is a dandy. If you need to reduce felt recoil there are things you can do such as fitting the stock to her LOP which helps immensely. The other is to drill out the butt stock and put one or two mercury recoil reducers in there. You can also hog out the fro t end and epoxy lead shit in there to add weight. Also you can add a few ounces with a heavier scope or add a brake. Hope you figure it out and she has a great hunt. You’re right that MN deer are really big. Your second line, however, is nonsense. A hundred years ago, 32-20 was one of the most common deer cartridges, even in Minnesota. By modern standards, it’s freaking anemic. |
Not fly enough to be halal....
| IIRC the NEF/H&R single shot rifles could take shotgun barrels but the shotguns wouldn’t (or at least weren’t recommended) to take the rifle barrels. Not sure how available rifle barrels are either since they’ve been out of business for a number of years now. A 6.8SPCII/6.5 Grendel/7.62x39 AR is a great hunting rifle for a kid. Relatively light, adjustable length, accurate, reasonably priced. A .243/6.5Creedmoor/7mm-08 bolt are also good. |
-"The truth does not require your belief in it to function."
-Genuine science is about gathering evidence and testing the veracity of theories, not cheerleading for a particular ideology.
-Genuine science is about gathering evidence and testing the veracity of theories, not cheerleading for a particular ideology.
|
Originally Posted By 50-140: .243 is a great caliber for a youngster for deer. This. https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/single-shot-youth-rifle/ |
It's not adventure until something goes wrong.
Don't make me that guy.
Don't make me that guy.
|
Consider the Bergara Stoke with its 12.25" length-of-pull, available in nine calibers (.243), 16" or 20" barrel, threaded, and spacers that allow it to grow with her. Heck, I'd like one myself in 22-250 for use with thermal and coyote hunting. |
"I think we should get a Machine Gun. We can use it to hunt game, spell out things, or ring in the New Year!" - Bart Simpson
|
Caliber ISNT the biggest criteria. Stock fit IS. Too long a butt stock changes all the handling. All the weight is too far forward, leaving the small shooter struggling and off balance. Recoil is magnified. Think short stocks. Period. Since this IS an AR15website, the obvious choice is an AR lightweight upper. Best choices here are 6mmARC and 6.5 Grendel. There are others. But these two are best on deer within the limits of the AR-15 frame size. Otherwise, find a youth bolt rifle, chambered in any youth low recoil caliber you like. Ideal choices are 243, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, and 6.5 Creedmoor. Another really good choice is the lightweight Howa 1500 Mini action in the aforementioned calibers. Edit: while your big man hands and greater strength make operation of a hammer simple and easy, I've seen kids struggle with hammers. Especially when trying to safely LOWER a hammer. I'd test the kid on hammer operation BEFORE investing a dime into upgrading a Pardner/NEF. |
|
Originally Posted By dusty3030: Savage Axis youth package rifle with a pre mounted scope is less than $400 new. Laser accurate, great trigger and 12.75” length of pull with a nice squishy pad. This or get a 6.5 Grendel upper from PSA in the $380-$450 range and collapse the stock on one of the lowers that you already have. The barrel switch for the Pardner is a no go, IMO. Put the money into something that's useful long term. |
|
Bought a Ruger American predator in 308 for my 9 year old. Called Ruger and they sent me a compact stock for free to reduce the LOP. Last year it had a massive muzzle brake on it that ate a lot of the recoil. This year it has a can on it and she shoots it just fine. ETA: big bears where we hunt deer so I needed More punch than a 243. 
|
Life's tough...it's even tougher when you're stupid
|
Bought the granddaughter a Browning Micro X bolt when she was 12. Perfect fit, light weight, accurate, caliber is a personal choice. I handload and we hunt elk so a .308 is what we chose. She has had the rifle for almost 13 years. It still fits her and she’s grown into full power loads and heavier bullets. If it were not for our access to larger game, we would have snagged the .243 or 6.5cm. |
|
I am a huge fan of 6.5 Grendel. If you dont want to do a AR for some reason i think the Ruger is a great choice. Howas get great reviews. I both would work great. If you want to spend a little more than the Ruger the Tikka T3x compact is a very nice rifle. The full sized stocks end up for sale used all the time if you need one later. But we should also ask what is she having trouble with? The fit of the stock or the weight of the rifle or recoil? Or is it all of it? The NEFs would have worked well in the past but since they are discontinued prices have gotten high on the stuff. The bice part about the single shots is that with a 16" barrel they are about 6" shorter than something with a receiver behind it. I have a NEF with a 16" 357 mag barrel and a youth stock. I think the entire rifle is only about 2.5 feet long. It was reamed to 357 max which sends a 180gr over 2050FPS. Not to far behind a 35 Remington. It could be loaded hotter but stopped there. It would not be a bad option but they are hard to find and you would need to hand load for it. Here is a picture to give you an idea of how small it is. Probably as small or smaller than my 10.5 SBR.  I think a few other companies are making single shots. If you have time you could puck one up and have the lop and stock shortened. Edit, just looked and CVA does a single shot take down in a few calibers. 243 and 300blk might work. 300blk is a threaded 16" barrel and youth stock. Would be a fun supressor host. |
|
Originally Posted By Delta10mm: Break action single shot 243. The problem with these are that they tend to be poorly made and disturbingly inaccurate. My father-in-law gave one each to my sons when they started hunting. The size was perfect for a little kid, but those suckers shoot minute-of-pie-plate with every ammo I tried. Note- I’m sure there are better examples than these, but holy cow are they crappy shooters. |
Not fly enough to be halal....
|
This is AR15.com. Get her an AR in 7.62x39. 16" barrel with an adjustable stock. Same ballistics as a .30-30. Light recoil. Cheap FMJ ammo for practice and 150 gr soft points for hunting. Can adjust with her as she grows. I grew up deer hunting north of Two Harbors, .30-30 killed a lot of deer up in the north woods. |
|
Originally Posted By dempsy1: My daughter is using a weatherby 7mm-08 in a women's stock. A friend has been pondering the same question for his 5'1" 13-yr-old granddaughter and settled on the MK-5 Camilla Deluxe in .243 Win just today. A traditional wood/blue rifle was the main must-have feature but the girl has not handled one yet. I'm curious to see how it works out for her. The 13" LOP is a bit longer than some other options (12.5" LOP for the Savage Lady Hunter). It'll wear a Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44 (ordered), Talley rings, some flavor of leather sling, and probably a Scythe-TI suppressor. For others, check 'em out:  Mark V Camilla Collection |
"I think we should get a Machine Gun. We can use it to hunt game, spell out things, or ring in the New Year!" - Bart Simpson
|
Buy a ruger American ranch 300 blackout and call Ruger and ask them if you can buy a youth stock for your daughter for the gun. They will give it to you for free. My daughter (8) killed her first deer with her rifle last year. Here's the stock ruger sent me for free (on the actio) vs the factory stock. Great company! Attached File Attached File |
We're living in an episode of Who's Line is it Anyway.
Where everything's made up and the points don't matter.
Where everything's made up and the points don't matter.
Joined:
Apr 2024
Posts:
893
EE: 100% (4)
SD, USA
|
Wow, how big do some people think deer get in Minnesota that a 243 is no good? I hunt Minnesota deer firearms season every year. Most does are under 130 pounds. An adult buck might weight 150-175 pounds, a big one can be closer to 200-225. 300 pound deer exist, but they are very rare, once in a lifetime for most people. A 357 magnum handgun is perfectly adequate for deer this size. The other consideration is the southern 1/2 of Minnesota is a so called "shotgun" zone. It really just means no stocked rifles, because everything else is fine including rifle caliber pistols such as a TC Encore. 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotguns are very common in this zone. I'm going to assume the OP is in the northern rifle zone part of the state. For sure for a kid who is evidently young enough that rifle fit is an issue, I would lean towards the smaller calibers. A 243 winchester is going to be a much better choice than a 308. To answer your question, you can kind of, but not really swap barrels on H&R's. They can swap, but it's a crap shoot if they fit right. Its not worth the cost in my opinion. As for what type of rifle, everyone has preferences. There are youth models for both single shots and bolt actions. I know in my experience in teaching new shooters, I really like exposed hammer guns which allow me to see from a distance the state of the firearm. They also make it really easy for kids to load and unload. It's a lot easier in a moment such as seeing a deer to look and see if the hammer is cocked rather than checking the safety. I see Henry makes a single shot youth model in 243. That would be a really good option. Wood stocks are really easy to chop down if you need it shorter yet. The above mentioned Ruger American in 300 BO would also be great. The plastic stocks aren't as easy to cut down, but if they fit as is, that's all it needs to be. |
|
Originally Posted By drfroglegs: Here's the stock ruger sent me for free (on the actio) vs the factory stock. Great company! I have a RAR in .300 BLK and one in .450 Bushmaster. I really didn't like the plastic mags of the .450, and wanted to use AR mags on it. I swapped parts with my .300 BLK stock and it worked just fine. I called the Ruger customer service number because I had read Ruger would sell the mag parts to convert the .450 to AR mags for about $25. I explained to the nice lady I wanted to buy the parts to convert my .450 BM to AR mags, I gave her the serial number of the .450, she gave me the company line that it wasn't an official configuration, they couldn't guarantee feeding, blah blah blah, I said I already had swapped parts with my .300 BLK and it worked fine. She asked for the serial number of the .300 BLK and I gave it to her. She said OK one is on the way, I said how much, and she just said " I took care of you". About 4 days later the new mag well showed up, note on the bill of sale said "Customer states mag well cracked". |
|
I swapped rings from Mediums to Lows earlier tonight on the Camilla my friend just got for his granddaughter and her dad bought a black Scythe-Ti for it this week. The Weatherby leather sling is here but not the swivels or Alumina flip-up scope caps yet. Another friend will engrave his nickname, most likely on one of the bases and the Harvester EVO is temporary. The rifle has a great feel in your hands and we really like the way it turned out. Can't wait to see her face when she gets it.    |
"I think we should get a Machine Gun. We can use it to hunt game, spell out things, or ring in the New Year!" - Bart Simpson
|
Originally Posted By parshooter: I swapped rings from Mediums to Lows earlier tonight on the Camilla my friend just got for his granddaughter and her dad bought a black Scythe-Ti for it this week. The Weatherby leather sling is here but not the swivels or Alumina flip-up scope caps yet. Another friend will engrave his nickname, most likely on one of the bases and the Harvester EVO is temporary. The rifle has a great feel in your hands and we really like the way it turned out. Can't wait to see her face when she gets it. https://www.imgur.com/DNuju2s.jpeg https://www.imgur.com/65RRmc4.jpeg I’m smiling just thinking about her getting it! Well done! |
|
Originally Posted By fgshoot: Wow, how big do some people think deer get in Minnesota that a 243 is no good? I hunt Minnesota deer firearms season every year. Most does are under 130 pounds. An adult buck might weight 150-175 pounds, a big one can be closer to 200-225. 300 pound deer exist, but they are very rare, once in a lifetime for most people. A 357 magnum handgun is perfectly adequate for deer this size. The other consideration is the southern 1/2 of Minnesota is a so called "shotgun" zone. It really just means no stocked rifles, because everything else is fine including rifle caliber pistols such as a TC Encore. 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotguns are very common in this zone. I'm going to assume the OP is in the northern rifle zone part of the state. For sure for a kid who is evidently young enough that rifle fit is an issue, I would lean towards the smaller calibers. A 243 winchester is going to be a much better choice than a 308. To answer your question, you can kind of, but not really swap barrels on H&R's. They can swap, but it's a crap shoot if they fit right. Its not worth the cost in my opinion. As for what type of rifle, everyone has preferences. There are youth models for both single shots and bolt actions. I know in my experience in teaching new shooters, I really like exposed hammer guns which allow me to see from a distance the state of the firearm. They also make it really easy for kids to load and unload. It's a lot easier in a moment such as seeing a deer to look and see if the hammer is cocked rather than checking the safety. I see Henry makes a single shot youth model in 243. That would be a really good option. Wood stocks are really easy to chop down if you need it shorter yet. The above mentioned Ruger American in 300 BO would also be great. The plastic stocks aren't as easy to cut down, but if they fit as is, that's all it needs to be. .243 will kill anything in NA dead as dead. 22 Creed is already killing moose in Alaska. |
|
Originally Posted By Hasher1: In general Minnesota deer where the OP is are darn big on up to HUGE. To me this negates anything below 6.5 and it negates the Grendel. So, should these guys have walked away laughing at the 6.5 Grendel they got shot with? The one on the left was 195 and the one on the right was 178… Attached File Attached File left one was a high shoulder shot that dropped him in his tracks. Right one was a top of the throat patch shot that dropped him in his tracks. I have killed dozens of WI white tails with my Grendel and they rarely go more than a few steps. This doe was running toward me and did a complete summersault ending up with her hoof behind her head. Didn’t even twitch enough to dislodge it where she landed. Probably in the 150 range. Attached File And the bullet? 123gr Sierra Match King. It kills deer dead. |
Pone semina in fundas ut aliquid crescat ubi morieris.
WE SEEK NOT YOUR COUNSEL, NOR YOUR ARMS
WE SEEK NOT YOUR COUNSEL, NOR YOUR ARMS
|
Originally Posted By celticmarksman: I'm taking my daughter out for her first rifle season this year and I'm having a devil of a time finding something that she can handle effectively. She's a little on the smaller side for her age and I've had her try multiple different firearms and nothing fits her well. The one option that I have is a 90's NEF Pardner break action 20ga. I don't really want to have her go at it with slugs, no rear site, and a smooth barrel, but I got to thinking....... Do any of you know if I can just buy a 308 (or something of that nature) barrel and swap it for the 20ga? Any and all input is helpful. Thanks, -CM Where in MN? I was out with my son this morning getting him time on his 12" 6.5 Grendel. Attached File It's great. I also have single shot 44mag and 30-30's that kids like to shoot |
|
For the people thinking you can't kill deer with a Grendel, well, the Grendel beats 44mag out of a handgun, and..... Attached File |
| My 8 year old wants to rifle hunt this year for deer. In PA and a few friends recommended the 350 legend. I've always had worse luck with 243 so going out on a limb. Appears decent within 200 yards which I have no intention of letting him attempt yet anyway. I purchased the ruger gen 2, picking it up Tuesday, it has the adjustable stock to shorten LOP to 12", but I'll have to report back how he does but definitely excited |
|
Quick update, I ended up with a Mossberg Trophy Hunter in .243WIN as a crunch time deperation buy. She shoots it just fine and the recoil isn't an issue. The performance at 100yds was very disappointing the first time out. I'll have to buy another box of ammo and try again quietly by myself. It has that Lightning trigger and thats pretty nice but other than that I'm not very impressed. We used Hornady Whitetail 100 grain, I've never used these round before. Any feedback on those? I don't want to be buying $60 a box ammo for kids but we should be shooting something consistent. |
|
Originally Posted By celticmarksman: Quick update, I ended up with a Mossberg Trophy Hunter in .243WIN as a crunch time deperation buy. She shoots it just fine and the recoil isn't an issue. The performance at 100yds was very disappointing the first time out. I'll have to buy another box of ammo and try again quietly by myself. It has that Lightning trigger and thats pretty nice but other than that I'm not very impressed. We used Hornady Whitetail 100 grain, I've never used these round before. Any feedback on those? I don't want to be buying $60 a box ammo for kids but we should be shooting something consistent. A lot of .243s off the shelf are made for little bullets, and don’t shoot 100gr worth a shit. I’d try some smaller projectiles. If they shoot well it’s the barrel twist. |
Not fly enough to be halal....
|
In MN it depends if you are in shotgun zone or rifle zone. For rifle zone a 243 win would be my top choice. 243 is great deer caliber. If shotgun zone a Savage 220 bolt action would be my top choice in 20ga. 20ga is much better as it shoots flatter and has less recoil. Shoot Sabot Slugs out of a rifled barrel. I have take deer in MN at 250yds with a 6.5 Grendel so nothing wrong with that either. |
|
Originally Posted By dana: I am a huge fan of 6.5 Grendel. If you dont want to do a AR for some reason i think the Ruger is a great choice. Howas get great reviews. I both would work great. If you want to spend a little more than the Ruger the Tikka T3x compact is a very nice rifle. The full sized stocks end up for sale used all the time if you need one later. But we should also ask what is she having trouble with? The fit of the stock or the weight of the rifle or recoil? Or is it all of it? The NEFs would have worked well in the past but since they are discontinued prices have gotten high on the stuff. The bice part about the single shots is that with a 16" barrel they are about 6" shorter than something with a receiver behind it. I have a NEF with a 16" 357 mag barrel and a youth stock. I think the entire rifle is only about 2.5 feet long. It was reamed to 357 max which sends a 180gr over 2050FPS. Not to far behind a 35 Remington. It could be loaded hotter but stopped there. It would not be a bad option but they are hard to find and you would need to hand load for it. Here is a picture to give you an idea of how small it is. Probably as small or smaller than my 10.5 SBR. https://i.imgur.com/wJamKwn.jpg I think a few other companies are making single shots. If you have time you could puck one up and have the lop and stock shortened. Edit, just looked and CVA does a single shot take down in a few calibers. 243 and 300blk might work. 300blk is a threaded 16" barrel and youth stock. Would be a fun supressor host. I love those HR singles. My old man had a 45-70. and that thing was a beast. |
The devil's got my number.
Joined:
Apr 2024
Posts:
1056
EE: 100% (4)
SD, USA
|
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: A lot of .243s off the shelf are made for little bullets, and don’t shoot 100gr worth a shit. I’d try some smaller projectiles. If they shoot well it’s the barrel twist. There might be some really long target 100gr or maybe copper 100gr bullets, but I have never heard or seen a 243 Winchester ever fail to shoot a regular 100gr soft point hunting bullet acceptably. That's one of the big reasons they became popular and the 6mm Remington didn't. They always had the fast twist rates for 100 gr bullets. There are custom guns out there with slow twists, but I'm not aware of any off the shelf 243 Winchester with slower than a 1:10 twist. That doesn't mean every particular 100gr will always be the best shooting, but that doesn't mean they are made for light bullets either. Like anything, it might shoot a Federal 100gr soft point lights out, and shoot a Remington 100 soft point horribly, or vice versa. There is no harm in trying lighter bullets, but it isn't the twist rate. In this case these model Mossbergs, and even the new Patriot's are well known to be horrible. I've heard more people who can barely keep them on paper, than I have who said they were acceptable. I've never heard one really good thing about them. Mossberg does not make good rifle barrels. |
|
Originally Posted By celticmarksman: Quick update, I ended up with a Mossberg Trophy Hunter in .243WIN as a crunch time deperation buy. She shoots it just fine and the recoil isn't an issue. The performance at 100yds was very disappointing the first time out. I'll have to buy another box of ammo and try again quietly by myself. It has that Lightning trigger and thats pretty nice but other than that I'm not very impressed. We used Hornady Whitetail 100 grain, I've never used these round before. Any feedback on those? I don't want to be buying $60 a box ammo for kids but we should be shooting something consistent. |
