Posted: 2/28/2026 8:15:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pav56C][Edited]
|
So my retired (and bored) father has been going down a comms rabbit whole. It started with my brother buying Meshtastic in hopes of a grid down form of comms for us. Doesnt seem to work for us. So my dad bought a Satellite texting device, but we don't want to have a monthly payment (gotta have our mocha-frappe-pino's and avocado toast like good millennials). Dad just announced he's buying us all (3 sons) gmrs mobile radios. He doesn't exactly have a lot of hobbies, so I'm excited this is something he can get into and we can do with him since pretty busy. I'm not a comms or tech guy, but I'm willing to get into it as much as I can for him. I'm about 25 miles from my dad as the crow flies, with a approx 1500 ft Mt in between. My oldest brother is about 8 miles NW (no major Mts), and my middle brother will soon be moving about 17 miles NE of me. He will be 35 miles from my dad, with Mts. He's hoping to be able to comm with all of us via GMRS. He has a repeater near him, I'm wondering if I need a repeater to help bridge the gap since I'll be in the middle. Am I on the right track? Or are we completely wrong? Appreciate the help. |
|
Mygmrs.com has alot of great info. This stuff is all line of sight. 25 miles w/ 25 or 50 watt mobiles will work, but not if there's alot of terrain blocking, like the mountains you mention. That's where repeaters come in. See if there's one in the area that'd be useful. You could theoretically set up your own on this mountain you speak of, possibly. I tell ya though, best bet would be get everyone a General license and set up for 40m or 80m NVIS. It frakkin' works. No bullshit, no extra infrastructure But I know that may be a bridge too far for you guys. But man, if he's bored, THAT would be THE rabbit hole to get lost in. There are people who've been doing it for 50, 60 years who're still learning, experimenting, etc. |
|
GMRS is just 65cm UHF with a $35 paid license. You will need a repeater at the top of that hill to use it the way you want to. Outside of that, it isn't going to work. Even trees will block it, not just solid terrain. Depending on the location and antenna height of the existing repeater, testing may be worth while. |
|
Unless there is or will be a repeater on that mountain, its going to be a problem. My son is only 13 miles away and we can't connect with GMRS or 2m with one of the radios having 50 watts and an external 6dB antenna up about 35'... We need to maybe try some 10m NVIS, but he wont get his tech ticket... I'd love for us to be able to do this simplex or without a repeater. |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
Member
Joined:
Jan 2022
Posts:
2821
EE: 0% (0)
MO, USA
| No such thing as 10 meter NVIS. 10 meter groundwave will go a bit further than VHF and certainly UHF but its characteristics are no different than CB. Even 40 met NVIS is only a sometimes thing. 80 Meters is the reliable NVIS band for this kind of work when using low horizontal antennas. The antennas are cheap (zero Dollars if you make them out of scraps of wire you may already have) or very cheap even to buy. No towers or high supports needed, but you do need a General or Extra license and a SSB HF rig. Older used rigs can be had for $200 to $500 dollars easy enough. The key to it all is the gumption to study and pass the test. Passing the test is easy enough if you have the real interest. If someone is trying to force you into passing the test, it can be a real problem. |
|
Everything K0UA says is correct. I'd add that 13 miles is a groundwave problem. NVIS only works briefly whatever band it does work on (which isn't 10M.) 10/11M is very likely to work. I live in the mountains and both SSB CB and FM CB work non-LOS here a pretty respectable distance base to mobile (7-10 miles.) Base to base with a decent antenna (10M EFHW verticals are only about 20' tall and is what my base uses) and 13 miles would be near-guaranteed via groundwave, even with SSB CB levels of power (12W PEP.) If you're willing to spend a little and build a couple EFHWs (ground mounted is fine) you could test things out with a pair of Anytone 6666s which are 10M radios that happen to have some "extra features" with regards to operating bands, and they do both SSB and FM. You could probably just pre-test with a HF rig on 10M and a portable HF receiver as well to confirm the path works. Brief ETA: if they got full tickets 80M would be like shooting fish in a barrel, even with crap antennas at that range. |
|
Originally Posted By K0UA: No such thing as 10 meter NVIS. 10 meter groundwave will go a bit further than VHF and certainly UHF but its characteristics are no different than CB. Even 40 met NVIS is only a sometimes thing. 80 Meters is the reliable NVIS band for this kind of work when using low horizontal antennas. The antennas are cheap (zero Dollars if you make them out of scraps of wire you may already have) or very cheap even to buy. No towers or high supports needed, but you do need a General or Extra license and a SSB HF rig. Older used rigs can be had for $200 to $500 dollars easy enough. The key to it all is the gumption to study and pass the test. Passing the test is easy enough if you have the real interest. If someone is trying to force you into passing the test, it can be a real problem. |
|
Thanks all. Already have my GMRS license. So he does have a repeaters that's on top of the Mt. I did some googling and it looks like it's on an industrial size tower at the top of the Mt. (By that I mean a tower that emergency UHF/VHF would use). I mapped it out and the tower is about 15 miles SW of me, 6 miles direct N of him. I have a feeling he would be able to reach me, but I don't think he'd me able to reach my brother's new house. He seems to think he will be able to hit that repeater, and then another repeater in between. My limited knowledge of radios tells me that's not possible. Please correct me but repeater X uses X fx, and repeater Y uses Y fx. Unless both repeaters are the same Fx, it shouldn't work. Am I correct? |
Member
Joined:
Jan 2022
Posts:
2824
EE: 0% (0)
MO, USA
|
Originally Posted By Pav56C: Thanks all. Already have my GMRS license. So he does have a repeaters that's on top of the Mt. I did some googling and it looks like it's on an industrial size tower at the top of the Mt. (By that I mean a tower that emergency UHF/VHF would use). I mapped it out and the tower is about 15 miles SW of me, 6 miles direct N of him. I have a feeling he would be able to reach me, but I don't think he'd me able to reach my brother's new house. He seems to think he will be able to hit that repeater, and then another repeater in between. My limited knowledge of radios tells me that's not possible. Please correct me but repeater X uses X fx, and repeater Y uses Y fx. Unless both repeaters are the same Fx, it shouldn't work. Am I correct? Yes, you have it figured out. Barring the repeaters being linked together which is not very common. Links can be via other radio frequencies or over the internet via VOIP. |
|
Originally Posted By K0UA: Yes, you have it figured out. Barring the repeaters being linked together which is not very common. Links can be via other radio frequencies or over the internet via VOIP. We don't want VOIP because of grid down scenarios. Although grid down, I don't know of the repeater has a Genny or k battery back up, so there's that. But is it possible for me to set up a repeater that repeats the signal from the initial repeater? Is that a thing? Would I need permission from the owner to repeat his channel? |
|
Originally Posted By Pav56C: We don't want VOIP because of grid down scenarios. Although grid down, I don't know of the repeater has a Genny or k battery back up, so there's that. Originally Posted By Pav56C: We don't want VOIP because of grid down scenarios. Although grid down, I don't know of the repeater has a Genny or k battery back up, so there's that. VOIP does not necessarily require use of the public Internet. It can be done point-to-point via private microwave links. Originally Posted By Pav56C: But is it possible for me to set up a repeater that repeats the signal from the initial repeater? Is that a thing? Would I need permission from the owner to repeat his channel? I guess you could do some hackjob RF-linking thing but I wouldn't advise it - for a while there was a remote GMRS repeater in New Mexico linked back to the primary site via MURS. Again, I wouldn't advise it. If you're going to be accessing someone else's repeater then you do need his permission. |
|
Talking about linking GMRS repeaters opens up a can of worms. The FCC not to long ago stated that linking GMRS repeater over phone/Internet is not allowed. Plus you can cause a bad loop back between two repeaters making them unusable if you aren't careful. |
DAV lifetime member
NRA Patriot Life Benefactor
NRA Patriot Life Benefactor
|
Originally Posted By Pav56C: Thanks all. Already have my GMRS license. So he does have a repeaters that's on top of the Mt. I did some googling and it looks like it's on an industrial size tower at the top of the Mt. (By that I mean a tower that emergency UHF/VHF would use). I mapped it out and the tower is about 15 miles SW of me, 6 miles direct N of him. I have a feeling he would be able to reach me, but I don't think he'd me able to reach my brother's new house. He seems to think he will be able to hit that repeater, and then another repeater in between. My limited knowledge of radios tells me that's not possible. Please correct me but repeater X uses X fx, and repeater Y uses Y fx. Unless both repeaters are the same Fx, it shouldn't work. Am I correct?  Take those mobile GMRS radios, throw them in a couple of vehicles, add a magnetic mount mobile antenna on the roof of each, and start doing your own testing. It won't be quite as good as elevated antennas on your homes, but it should provide a reasonable idea of what's possible and what's not possible. If there is a repeater on that mountain, and all of you have reasonable line-of-sight to that repeater, then all of you should be able to make contact through that repeater. And you should be able to make comm's with your elder brother without the repeater. Perfect? No. Probably the best you could hope for, though. However... Unless you are all concerned about the end of the world, as opposed to local SHTF, Starlink is absolutely the way to go for portable/standby comm's. 1. Buy a Starlink Mini for $250. 2. Sign up for the "Roam" plan, which will cost $50 for the first month. 3. Immediately switch the Roam plan to "standby" mode. Starting the next month your fee will drop to $5/mo. Standby mode limits you to 500 kilobits/sec, but that is more than enough for Wi-Fi calling via your cell phone, text messages, email, ar15.com, etc. You can even watch YouTube videos at the lowest resolution. You can just throw that baby out on the lawn, or slap it on top of the instrument panel of the car. Carrying it around in a backpack is doable, too, if necessary. No rocket surgery required 
|
"Cogito, ergo armatum sum."
|
Originally Posted By aa777888-2: Too much analysis paralysis in this thread, as usual when it comes to radio stuff Take those mobile GMRS radios, throw them in a couple of vehicles, add a magnetic mount mobile antenna on the roof of each, and start doing your own testing. It won't be quite as good as elevated antennas on your homes, but it should provide a reasonable idea of what's possible and what's not possible. If there is a repeater on that mountain, and all of you have reasonable line-of-sight to that repeater, then all of you should be able to make contact through that repeater. And you should be able to make comm's with your elder brother without the repeater. Perfect? No. Probably the best you could hope for, though. However... Unless you are all concerned about the end of the world, as opposed to local SHTF, Starlink is absolutely the way to go for portable/standby comm's. 1. Buy a Starlink Mini for $250. 2. Sign up for the "Roam" plan, which will cost $50 for the first month. 3. Immediately switch the Roam plan to "standby" mode. Starting the next month your fee will drop to $5/mo. Standby mode limits you to 500 kilobits/sec, but that is more than enough for Wi-Fi calling via your cell phone, text messages, email, ar15.com, etc. You can even watch YouTube videos at the lowest resolution. You can just throw that baby out on the lawn, or slap it on top of the instrument panel of the car. Carrying it around in a backpack is doable, too, if necessary. No rocket surgery required This was my vote! I was even considering replacing my Internet with starlink for a few $ more per month. But he didn't like that idea. Not as fun 🤷♂️? Either way we either all have to do the same thing or it doesn't matter. |
|
Originally Posted By Pav56C:This was my vote! I was even considering replacing my Internet with starlink for a few $ more per month. But he didn't like that idea. Not as fun ? Either way we either all have to do the same thing or it doesn't matter. |
"Cogito, ergo armatum sum."
|
If he needs a hobby theres a group thats trying to talk across the country on GMRS simplex. They just started doing zello nets and youtube livestreams. Not sure they'll ever get there, but its and interesting concept and may keep him occupied for a bit. They do callouts 6x a day. https://www.projectlonghaul.com/ |
"I've always felt that the real horror is next door to us, that the scariest monsters are our neighbors."
-George A. Romero
-George A. Romero
|
Ditto to everything AA said. Buy a couple GMRS radios. Preferably mobile (vehicle) with a magnetic antenna in the roof. Drive around and see how it works. Your Dad needs something to do. This is that. Go for it. You may find it doesn’t quite hit where you want, but… you’ve learned something. And that’s the fun part. |
|
Originally Posted By chumpmiester: Talking about linking GMRS repeaters opens up a can of worms. The FCC not to long ago stated that linking GMRS repeater over phone/Internet is not allowed. There is a prohibition against connecting to the phone system, a relic of the 70's/80's to stop people from using it as an ersatz mobile phone. These days it's superfluous. |
This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
|
Defense in depth. I like (and use the starlink both at my job (400+ starlinks) and my personal comms. I would add LTE PTT radios (like Global PTT or Rapid Radios or a million clones). Then add GMRS. Then add HAM. There is a time and place for end of the world comms, but modern tech makes it less and less needed (but does not eliminate the need). Learning curve for radio is stepp and I would suggest learning with RF as a backup, not with RF as the primary plan. TT |
|
Originally Posted By Pav56C: So my retired (and bored) father has been going down a comms rabbit whole. It started with my brother buying Meshtastic in hopes of a grid down form of comms for us. Doesnt seem to work for us. So my dad bought a Satellite texting device, but we don't want to have a monthly payment (gotta have our mocha-frappe-pino's and avocado toast like good millennials). Dad just announced he's buying us all (3 sons) gmrs mobile radios. He doesn't exactly have a lot of hobbies, so I'm excited this is something he can get into and we can do with him since pretty busy. I'm not a comms or tech guy, but I'm willing to get into it as much as I can for him. I'm about 25 miles from my dad as the crow flies, with a approx 1500 ft Mt in between. My oldest brother is about 8 miles NW (no major Mts), and my middle brother will soon be moving about 17 miles NE of me. He will be 35 miles from my dad, with Mts. He's hoping to be able to comm with all of us via GMRS. He has a repeater near him, I'm wondering if I need a repeater to help bridge the gap since I'll be in the middle. Am I on the right track? Or are we completely wrong? Appreciate the help. If your FiL is bored with time on his hands, he could cram and pass the Ham radio exam for Technician and General fairly easily, then the sky would be the limit. He could have a lot of fun with it as a hobby, never mind having comms in a wide range of frequencies without infrastructure. Have him take a look at my method: http://eventualmasteroftheobvious.com/amateur_radio.htm There is all kinds of fun to be had with ham radio, and as you have fun with it, you develop the skills to use it when there is an actual need. |
Don't confuse where I live with where I'm from.
|
Originally Posted By Emoto: If your FiL is bored with time on his hands, he could cram and pass the Ham radio exam for Technician and General fairly easily, then the sky would be the limit. He could have a lot of fun with it as a hobby, never mind having comms in a wide range of frequencies without infrastructure. Have him take a look at my method: http://eventualmasteroftheobvious.com/amateur_radio.htm There is all kinds of fun to be had with ham radio, and as you have fun with it, you develop the skills to use it when there is an actual need. Originally Posted By Emoto: Originally Posted By Pav56C: So my retired (and bored) father has been going down a comms rabbit whole. It started with my brother buying Meshtastic in hopes of a grid down form of comms for us. Doesnt seem to work for us. So my dad bought a Satellite texting device, but we don't want to have a monthly payment (gotta have our mocha-frappe-pino's and avocado toast like good millennials). Dad just announced he's buying us all (3 sons) gmrs mobile radios. He doesn't exactly have a lot of hobbies, so I'm excited this is something he can get into and we can do with him since pretty busy. I'm not a comms or tech guy, but I'm willing to get into it as much as I can for him. I'm about 25 miles from my dad as the crow flies, with a approx 1500 ft Mt in between. My oldest brother is about 8 miles NW (no major Mts), and my middle brother will soon be moving about 17 miles NE of me. He will be 35 miles from my dad, with Mts. He's hoping to be able to comm with all of us via GMRS. He has a repeater near him, I'm wondering if I need a repeater to help bridge the gap since I'll be in the middle. Am I on the right track? Or are we completely wrong? Appreciate the help. If your FiL is bored with time on his hands, he could cram and pass the Ham radio exam for Technician and General fairly easily, then the sky would be the limit. He could have a lot of fun with it as a hobby, never mind having comms in a wide range of frequencies without infrastructure. Have him take a look at my method: http://eventualmasteroftheobvious.com/amateur_radio.htm There is all kinds of fun to be had with ham radio, and as you have fun with it, you develop the skills to use it when there is an actual need. Exactly! |
|
Thank you for all the replies. My dad did end up buying 2 GMRS. He wants to put one in his Jeep, but we know they'll never work for our purposes. I just ordered a $250 Starlink mini off Amazon (I know you can get em cheaper, but I have Amazon points to use). Now comes the fun of tinkering and figure out how to use it off grid. Thanks again. |
Pair this with digital modes js8call VARAC ect. & this is the answer  The Ultimate Guide to Affordable NVIS Comms (How to Build a Regional Off-Grid Radio Box) |