monolthic domes? paging 1 big bunker (Page 5 of 12)
|
Once you pour your slab and install your airform, and spray the foam, What is the time frame to spraying the shotcrete? does it have to be done right away or can it be done at a later time. days, weeks etc.
I am putting up my property for sale next week. And I want to start planing on a timeframe to build a dome. How long does it take to have the airfrom built? I still have to find property to build on also. I want 40-50 acres in the hills somewhere. |
|
Originally Posted By elvia:
Once you pour your slab and install your airform, and spray the foam, What is the time frame to spraying the shotcrete? does it have to be done right away or can it be done at a later time. days, weeks etc. I am putting up my property for sale next week. And I want to start planing on a timeframe to build a dome. How long does it take to have the airfrom built? I still have to find property to build on also. I want 40-50 acres in the hills somewhere. There is no time frame. We usually start putting in the window and door frames the next day. After that, we spray foam and hang steel. At that point it is pretty safe even if the power goes out. I built a 50'x22' dome and we had foam and steel in it only. The next day we were going to start spraying shotcrete when an F-3 hit. The winds were over 175mph and it ripped the airlock and inflator fan off the front of the dome, took the shotcrete pump and blew it down the hill and level a home and barn next to us. The only thing left standing was a silo, chimney, and the dome. Everything else was gone. We didn't have power for over a week and the dome was fine. We glued the airform back on the airflock and fixed everything, it took about a day, and then just waited for the power to come back on. We were building another one that was 50'x21' and we had 2'' of foam going up to about 8' and from that point up we had about 1.5'' and the owner pulled the fuses on our power while we are in the middle of foaming. The inflator fan shuts off and the dome never moved. Maybe an inch or so it sagged but that's it. I asked him why he did that and he said he was checking them to see if they work. I said if they weren't working the damn fan wouldn't work, so don't touch anything unless I say so. 
Anyway, I was VERY happy I was using the stronger 2.5 pound foam. Even though my coverage isn't as great, I sleep better at night knowing that if the fan shuts off, nothing bad will happen. The airform can be built very quickly. Don't worry about that. Even large 200' domes are built FAST. I will send you a PM as I have a question for you. |
|
Amazing info... 1BB is quite a guy on here and a major asset to the board. I do have a question.... if I were to build a dome (which would be a while, because I don't have the assets to start such a project....) I'd want a watch tower of sorts on the VERY top.... you know, something that has maybe 6 windows and a few port holes, that a rifle might stick out of.....  . Could you put a small diameter dome on top of the other dome (kind of like ice cream scoops, but the top dome is quite smaller) to have my shooting perch/watch tower...... or would it be better to have a hatch on top through the concrete and build a frame structure (like a gazebo shape, but on top of a 35ft dome)up there.... I'm sorry if i'm not making sense...ETA: mspaint  |
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
--James Madison
--James Madison
|
Originally Posted By mattfoley:
Amazing info... 1BB is quite a guy on here and a major asset to the board. I do have a question.... if I were to build a dome (which would be a while, because I don't have the assets to start such a project....) I'd want a watch tower of sorts on the VERY top.... you know, something that has maybe 6 windows and a few port holes, that a rifle might stick out of..... . Could you put a small diameter dome on top of the other dome (kind of like ice cream scoops, but the top dome is quite smaller) to have my shooting perch/watch tower...... or would it be better to have a hatch on top through the concrete and build a frame structure (like a gazebo shape, but on top of a 35ft dome)up there.... I'm sorry if i'm not making sense...
ETA: mspaint http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/688/domeia.jpg That's cool. Yes, you can do that. The only thing is you will have to add 3 or 4 extra wraps of rebar around that top just before your cupola starts. It is called a ring beam. Even though it ispart of the dome, it is considered a hole and it needs a extra rebar to create a concrete beam. Nothing major or added expense at all. It is very very easy to do. We put a hole in the top of one and made it into a huge deck on top of their roof. It was very cool to go up there and walk around and be 30 plus feet up looking down on everything. It was kind of like a huge gazebo on the top of the dome. We planned for this and added attaching points from the inside and poked a hole through the airform to the outside. The bolts stuck inside the dome about 6''. We foamed over them and then there was 3'' still sticking out. That 3'' was shotcreted over and the anchoring points outside on top of the dome were now secured. I hope I explained that so you understood. There was a little more we did to make this work, but that's it in a nutshell. They called me up about a year later and asked if they could put a hot tub up there. I said yes, you can without any trouble. So now they have an 8 person hot tub on top of their dome. Also, you might want to read the articles below. The 5000 pound bomb one, read the forth paragraph. Passing the bullet test 2.75 Rocket fire 5000 pound bomb, yes, five thousand pound bomb dropped on dome |
|
I've been totally sold on these for years. A dome is my goal.
1BB, a couple questions. Can the interior of the dome be framed out with lumber and drywall and the structure retain it's heating and cooling efficiency? How would a water/cistern be set up, and have you installed one? Is it cheaper to use a few smaller domes or one big one? Can you put a woodstove in the exact center or does poking a hole in the apex ruin the stucture? Sorry,,lol |
|
Originally Posted By wsix:
I've been totally sold on these for years. A dome is my goal. 1BB, a couple questions. Can the interior of the dome be framed out with lumber and drywall and the structure retain it's heating and cooling efficiency? How would a water/cistern be set up, and have you installed one? Is it cheaper to use a few smaller domes or one big one? Can you put a woodstove in the exact center or does poking a hole in the apex ruin the stucture? Sorry,,lol Yes, you can frame it out anyway you want. Just don't put in a second floor and then seal it off from the heat source like infloor heat or treat it like an attic. As far as a cistern, are you talking on top of the dome to catch rain water? You can put one on top. If you wanted a 1000 gallon tank on top of the dome, that wouldn't hurt anything. I mean including a tank and platform you are talking only about 10,000 pounds or so. We have never put one on top of a dome, but the domes are engineered to handle one ton per square foot. I have seen 250 tons hung from the dome shell before and it didn't even come close to maxing out what the dome could take. Generally, it's slightly cheaper to build one big dome, but then again it all comes down to how many SF are over the dome shell no matter if it is one big dome or three smaller domes. It also depends on if you want a second or third floor in the dome. If that's the case, I would go with one big dome with maybe two more smaller dome off to the side. That way your main dome can be taller and add in the extra floor or possibly two. A wood stove in the center is fine. Many people do that. A friend of mine that I built a 40' by 22' dome for, has a small potbelly stove just slightly off center in his dome. He has a stove pipe that runs to the very top. I came in one day and seen that the very top was very very dark and the paint looked burnt. I asked him what happened and he said he never used the stove before so when it got down to around -15 he figured he would try it out and see how well it worked. Since it was his first time using it, he started a fire and threw in a few cobs of wood. He said his wife wanted to run to town and get a few things so they left and came back a few hours later. He said when he opened the door it was about 100 degrees inside the dome. He said it was like opening an oven door. He thought the place was on fire. He opened all the doors and windows and tried to cool it off in there. He said it took almost a full day to get all the heat out of the heat soaked concrete and bring it back down to the mid 70's. He said it would get cold in the dome and they would close everything up and then the concrete started giving up its stored heat and before you knew it, it was pushing 90 degrees again. After it was all said and done, he seen the burnt paint at the top of the dome. Now he said I know that one chunk of wood about the size of my arm in the morning is all I need all day long. He said he heats all winter in northern Wisconsin on less than a pickup load of wood. The good thing is, that nothing in the shell can burn unless there's a flame put to it. Foam won't burn unless it has a flame and the airform is the same way. So all that happened was he needed to do some touch up painting. That's why these are very good for wildfire areas. Once the brush around a dome is burnt, there's nothing that can happen to the dome. If the brush is kept clear for a few feet, the dome will never catch fire. |
NRA Legacy Life Member, and unrepentant Old Whig
Joined:
Jun 2003
Posts:
28969
EE: 100% (1)
TX, USA
|
Originally Posted By 1_BIG_BUNKER: What a waste... when they could have had a one-man, seven-woman hot tub for the same amount of money. <snip> They called me up about a year later and asked if they could put a hot tub up there. I said yes, you can without any trouble. So now they have an 8 person hot tub on top of their dome. <snip>  |
"When you shoot people, you take what you can get." –– Louis Awerbuck
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
|
Originally Posted By wise_jake:
Originally Posted By 1_BIG_BUNKER:
What a waste... when they could have had a one-man, seven-woman hot tub for the same amount of money. <snip> They called me up about a year later and asked if they could put a hot tub up there. I said yes, you can without any trouble. So now they have an 8 person hot tub on top of their dome. <snip>
Well, they have way more money than they know what to do with. They actually had me build a smaller dome, about 800sf, down by their lake. Yes, they own three lakes, big lakes. The smallest lake is 12 acres. They had me build it because they didn't want to walk about 300 meters back to their main dome after fishing all day and would just sleep down by the lake and walk back in the morning. They are very nice people from Chicago. They gave me a key to their place and said anytime I want to go up there and use it, I am more than welcome to. I asked if I could have hot tub parties and they said our home is your home, do what you want. I never did, but I have thought about it a few times. 
Originally Posted By Gerri:
Would we contact a local design engineer or architect first, or would you recommend contacting an architect you know of? Should you look at a project first? The best thing to do is call Monolithic and ask to speak with Linda Ware. She will draw up your floor plans and is GREAT to work with. She drew up almost every floor plan in their book. She has done 100's of blueprints. They will charge you like $250 or something like that for the floor plan, but if you buy the airform and do the blueprints, they credit you the $250 towards the cost. Blueprints are very cheap through Monolithic. Plus they really know what people need to get one built. They come with an engineering stamp as well, so all that is done for you if you need it for a permit. Larry Byrne (say it just like BURN) does the airform blueprints which is completely different from floor plan blueprints. He does all the stamping as well and is the VP there. Very nice guy to talk to and will spend as much time as you need answering questions. |
|
How dense is the shotcrete in comparison to poured concrete? I'm assuming you can still hammer drill it to use redheads and lead anchors for framing the interior walls and other items? For exterior building that are attached (garage, covered areas, porch) do you reinforce that area at the re-bar stage? |
7.62x39: Turning cover into concealment since 1943
|
Originally Posted By TexasSheepdog:
How dense is the shotcrete in comparison to poured concrete? I'm assuming you can still hammer drill it to use redheads and lead anchors for framing the interior walls and other items? For exterior building that are attached (garage, covered areas, porch) do you reinforce that area at the re-bar stage? Yes, a Hilti hammer drill will go right through the shotcrete. Other hammer drills really suck. You don't need to reinforce anything. If you want a garage, just build a double dome and be done with it. A porch is easy to attach as well. we just add in an extra 2x10 to attach to when foaming in forms. It's easy and no extra work at all so long as you plan for it. If you don't, it is still easy to do, but takes more time. |
| Big Bunker are you based out of Italy Texas? You can IM me the the info if you want. Looking to build soon in Louisiana as the water table is too high for a basement. |
Voting for Obama must have been like having sex with your own sister..... Sure it felt good at the time but deep down you knew it was wrong.....
|
Originally Posted By Evil_Donkey:
Big Bunker are you based out of Italy Texas? You can IM me the the info if you want. Looking to build soon in Louisiana as the water table is too high for a basement. Well, I'm moving to Louisiana in a couple months. Let me know what you're thinking. |
|
They are building domes in Haiti, anyone want to go and help build? Help them out and learn a pretty good skill as well. I spoke to David about the project a few days ago and he sent me this news video link.
Dome video |
I'm excited to know your going to move to Louisiana....  I will get with you soon but the idea of a dome on my land is my next big goal. Central Louisiana south of Alexandra. Close enuff to hear the artillary cannons firing off at Ft. Polk... 
|
"Prepping, to me, is much like a seat belt. I wear a seat belt every time I get behind the wheel. I do not expect to need it. I pray to God that I'll never need it. I'd be ignorant to ignore the possibility that it may save my very life." - Pat
|
Originally Posted By elvia:
after the foam is sprayed, how are the rebar ties attached to the foam? Do you just stick them into the foam? Been watching lots of videos lately on different domes and loading up on info. Can't wait for you to start your Lafayette project. one layer of foam is applied, rebar ties are stuck in it, and thye have a flat part that goes levelwith first layer, second layer applied over sandwitches it in |
|
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
Originally Posted By elvia:
after the foam is sprayed, how are the rebar ties attached to the foam? Do you just stick them into the foam? Been watching lots of videos lately on different domes and loading up on info. Can't wait for you to start your Lafayette project. one layer of foam is applied, rebar ties are stuck in it, and thye have a flat part that goes levelwith first layer, second layer applied over sandwitches it in I couldn't have explained it better myself, but if I tried, I probably would have ended up with three paragraphs saying the same thing you did in one sentence.
Yes, I am pretty excited about getting down there and getting started myself. I had a pretty big mountain to climb, but last week I cleared it. I needed to get $15m in bonding and I can't get bonded for that much at this time. I called David South, the owner of Monolithic, and his brother Barry who owns Dome Tech to work something out. After I explained what I am doing and my long term goals, I cut a sweet deal with them. They can get bonding up to $50m so anything I want to do they are in. Now we are all happy. Dome Tech I should start within about 120 days or so. I am bring 25 dome builders there, and hiring another 100-125 locals plus a GC which I already have, and we will train them and bring them up to speed. I'm building 210 domes and each dome is 52' by 26' with a 12' stem wall. They will have two floors and have a total of 4244 sf for each dome. If this project goes as well as I believe, I will start building in two other locations in La. for a total of around 600-700 domes, and have them all done in four years. I will get the first 210 domes completed in 20-24 months depending on weather and people. My goal is to have 16 domes up and cash flowing every 6-7 weeks once everyone is up to speed. The shell should not take any longer than about 2-3 weeks max to complete, with 2 weeks being the figure I want them to meet after everyone has built a couple. That leaves about 4 or 5 weeks to finish off the interior. Both of these times are very easy to meet after everyone does a couple and figures out what's going on. They only cost about $130,000 each to get up at $30 psf. I should have about 75% to 80% equity in the project and cash flowing very well. Then I am going to offer the workers a chance to go to other cities. My plan is to use my equity and cash flow to continue building. I will divide the crew up into three or four 25 man or larger crews and do the whole thing all over again in other cities, but not all at once. I will take 25 men to another city when Lafayette is about 80% complete. Then I will take another 25 or so men to another city when Laffy is about 90% complete, and the remaining men will go to another city or be attached to the crews already in place and building. I don't expect every man to travel, but if I had 60% of them coming with, I would be happy. I am unsure how many times I will divide up the men and start new crews, but my goal is to be in at least one major city in all 50 states within 15 years, and a billionaire in 7 years. There are two more things, but those are classified for now. I'll let you know how it works out for me.
I do have a damn good retirement plan for those who travel to other cities. I know how traveling sucks. I won't have much free time on my hands, but if I can, I will start a thread about the construction and post some pics as things move forward. |
|
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
Originally Posted By elvia: after the foam is sprayed, how are the rebar ties attached to the foam? Do you just stick them into the foam? Been watching lots of videos lately on different domes and loading up on info. Can't wait for you to start your Lafayette project. one layer of foam is applied, rebar ties are stuck in it, and thye have a flat part that goes levelwith first layer, second layer applied over sandwitches it in I couldn't have explained it better myself, but if I tried, I probably would have ended up with three paragraphs saying the same thing you did in one sentence. Why thanks, I have been researching greatly, but due to employment unstabilty, have not yet been able to pursue getting myself one built. 
I would say monolithic would like that deal that is a ton of dome shells. I would suspect they might be the bottleneck more then anything depending on their capacity. I think I am in the wrong career field, Good luck (even thought if your plan is near as successful as I suspect, you will kill my career field (forestry)even further. What does an unskilled but trainable and sober laborer make on one of your crews? Patent trademark and otherwise lock up everything you can before the imitators catch on. And apply early to get NEPA, Environmental site plans etc done, as that can tie you up for years. |
|
Originally Posted By 1_BIG_BUNKER:
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
Originally Posted By elvia:
after the foam is sprayed, how are the rebar ties attached to the foam? Do you just stick them into the foam? Been watching lots of videos lately on different domes and loading up on info. Can't wait for you to start your Lafayette project. one layer of foam is applied, rebar ties are stuck in it, and thye have a flat part that goes levelwith first layer, second layer applied over sandwitches it in I couldn't have explained it better myself, but if I tried, I probably would have ended up with three paragraphs saying the same thing you did in one sentence.
Yes, I am pretty excited about getting down there and getting started myself. I had a pretty big mountain to climb, but last week I cleared it. I needed to get $15m in bonding and I can't get bonded for that much at this time. I called David South, the owner of Monolithic, and his brother Barry who owns Dome Tech to work something out. After I explained what I am doing and my long term goals, I cut a sweet deal with them. They can get bonding up to $50m so anything I want to do they are in. Now we are all happy. Dome Tech I should start within about 120 days or so. I am bring 25 dome builders there, and hiring another 100-125 locals plus a GC which I already have, and we will train them and bring them up to speed. I'm building 210 domes and each dome is 52' by 26' with a 12' stem wall. They will have two floors and have a total of 4244 sf for each dome. If this project goes as well as I believe, I will start building in two other locations in La. for a total of around 600-700 domes, and have them all done in four years. I will get the first 210 domes completed in 20-24 months depending on weather and people. My goal is to have 16 domes up and cash flowing every 6-7 weeks once everyone is up to speed. The shell should not take any longer than about 2-3 weeks max to complete, with 2 weeks being the figure I want them to meet after everyone has built a couple. That leaves about 4 or 5 weeks to finish off the interior. Both of these times are very easy to meet after everyone does a couple and figures out what's going on. They only cost about $130,000 each to get up at $30 psf. I should have about 75% to 80% equity in the project and cash flowing very well. Then I am going to offer the workers a chance to go to other cities. My plan is to use my equity and cash flow to continue building. I will divide the crew up into three or four 25 man or larger crews and do the whole thing all over again in other cities, but not all at once. I will take 25 men to another city when Lafayette is about 80% complete. Then I will take another 25 or so men to another city when Laffy is about 90% complete, and the remaining men will go to another city or be attached to the crews already in place and building. I don't expect every man to travel, but if I had 60% of them coming with, I would be happy. I am unsure how many times I will divide up the men and start new crews, but my goal is to be in at least one major city in all 50 states within 15 years, and a billionaire in 7 years. There are two more things, but those are classified for now. I'll let you know how it works out for me.
I do have a damn good retirement plan for those who travel to other cities. I know how traveling sucks. I won't have much free time on my hands, but if I can, I will start a thread about the construction and post some pics as things move forward. Impressive challenge 1BB! A tiny piece of advice if I can be so bold. Make a ritual to pull a little $$$ out, ––very frequently, and figuratively bury it in your back yard AND [particularly if you have personally guaranteed anything] TELL NO ONE, [especially your banksters] about it. DO NOT TOUCH IT, except to count it . Try to accumulate at least a 100k and don't stop there. Also, pay taxes on it so you sleep well at night.
Make it like a "ratchet" part of your biz, it comes out and never goes back in. I've lived by this rule successfully and some others I've suggested this to who were making $$$$$ like it was growing on trees and didn't listen, went broke with nothing in reserve. It's my "make your biz a ratchet" rule.
You can thank me in a few years.
|
NRA Legacy Life Member, and unrepentant Old Whig
Joined:
Jun 2003
Posts:
29032
EE: 100% (1)
TX, USA
|
Originally Posted By 1_BIG_BUNKER: Saw that on the news tonight, and was gonna get in here and post it...They are building domes in Haiti, anyone want to go and help build? Help them out and learn a pretty good skill as well. I spoke to David about the project a few days ago and he sent me this news video link. Dome video |
"When you shoot people, you take what you can get." –– Louis Awerbuck
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
|
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Impressive challenge 1BB! A tiny piece of advice if I can be so bold. Make a ritual to pull a little $$$ out, ––very frequently, and figuratively bury it in your back yard AND [particularly if you have personally guaranteed anything] TELL NO ONE, [especially your banksters] about it. DO NOT TOUCH IT, except to count it . Try to accumulate at least a 100k and don't stop there. Also, pay taxes on it so you sleep well at night.
Make it like a "ratchet" part of your biz, it comes out and never goes back in. I've lived by this rule successfully and some others I've suggested this to who were making $$$$$ like it was growing on trees and didn't listen, went broke with nothing in reserve. It's my "make your biz a ratchet" rule.
You can thank me in a few years.
I hear you EXPY37, and I have a couple plans.
Wait until I start building and everyone actually sees my GRAND plan for everything here. As nice as this project is, it is nothing more than a stepping stone onto my huge project. In fact, everywhere I build in every state is a stepping stone towards my huge project, but that plan is HIGHLY classified. Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
Originally Posted By elvia: after the foam is sprayed, how are the rebar ties attached to the foam? Do you just stick them into the foam? Been watching lots of videos lately on different domes and loading up on info. Can't wait for you to start your Lafayette project. one layer of foam is applied, rebar ties are stuck in it, and thye have a flat part that goes levelwith first layer, second layer applied over sandwitches it in I couldn't have explained it better myself, but if I tried, I probably would have ended up with three paragraphs saying the same thing you did in one sentence. Why thanks, I have been researching greatly, but due to employment unstabilty, have not yet been able to pursue getting myself one built.
I would say monolithic would like that deal that is a ton of dome shells. I would suspect they might be the bottleneck more then anything depending on their capacity. I think I am in the wrong career field, Good luck (even thought if your plan is near as successful as I suspect, you will kill my career field (forestry)even further. What does an unskilled but trainable and sober laborer make on one of your crews? Patent trademark and otherwise lock up everything you can before the imitators catch on. And apply early to get NEPA, Environmental site plans etc done, as that can tie you up for years. Well, Dome Tech has actually just started their own airform manufacturing company. So now both Monolithic and Dome Tech build airforms. Yes, with what I am planning in La. only, Dome Tech will sell about $8,125,000 in airforms, plus the deal on the bonding. They are doing pretty good. We also talked about them being able to supply airforms at a rate I would need when we start thinking about splitting the crews. They both told me I will NEVER out build them and I will never wait for airforms. I said okay good, and i will hold you to that. The nice thing is, they can grow as I grow. It is like the renting part of my project. I have a company that will be coming on board with me full time and running the rental part of it so I don't have the headaches. They will learn and grow as I build. It isn't like we open the doors and have 1200 to 3000 units ready to go all at once. That's the beauty of building the way I am. It not only gives people time to complete the lease they are in and move in at a certain time, but it allows the people running it time to adjust and learn as we build. Same thing with building airforms. They see what is happening and they can adjust accordingly to what my needs will be as time goes by. We talked a very long time about this and where we can and can't go. As far as pay goes, that depends on a few things. I mean for those who come with to other locations, the pay and monthly profit sharing is great. If you want to know more let me know. I don't care who copies me. I hope they do. I would even be willing to help them copy what I am doing or even work together. Anything to help people and help save our country. I mean what good does it do to be wealthy if you have no country to be wealthy in? 
|
|
Originally Posted By 1_BIG_BUNKER:
They are building domes in Haiti, anyone want to go and help build? Help them out and learn a pretty good skill as well. I spoke to David about the project a few days ago and he sent me this news video link. Dome video I have receive many emails from people on here asking about going there to build. So instead of answering them all, I will just post this. I just spoke to David South and he said anyone who wants to go should email him at [email protected] and go from there. He said they are going to start sending over equipment in about two weeks. They will be building sections of 500 domes at a time. They will also be building a 125,000 sf hospital as well as other large buildings. They are going to have a monthly news letter going out about this to, so you can be put on that if you want. |
|
Originally Posted By 1_BIG_BUNKER:
Originally Posted By 1_BIG_BUNKER:
They are building domes in Haiti, anyone want to go and help build? Help them out and learn a pretty good skill as well. I spoke to David about the project a few days ago and he sent me this news video link. Dome video I have receive many emails from people on here asking about going there to build. So instead of answering them all, I will just post this. I just spoke to David South and he said anyone who wants to go should email him at [email protected] and go from there. He said they are going to start sending over equipment in about two weeks. They will be building sections of 500 domes at a time. They will also be building a 125,000 sf hospital as well as other large buildings. They are going to have a monthly news letter going out about this to, so you can be put on that if you want. that is insanely impressive. a quote from a recent scifi novel I read applies I would say... "I believe Cheops was insufficiently ambitious." |
|
hmm been doing much research on these and rental complexes. On a smaller scale then 1big bunker though.
following some of his numbers, and a bunch of crunching on my own, looks like maybe ~12000 to build a IO-16.5 ~40000 to build a 4 unit IO-32 At $100 per week target at local rental rates it would be at least break even, probably even profitable (assuming lower vacancy rate and turnover/cleaning costs) The higher prices are probably a limited market in each local, but probably enough to start cashflowing to build bulk units for the lower affordable price breaks. Looks like maybe 50k or so is enough to get started with a couple simple units or one 4 plex, build with subbing out the foam work and hand applying the concrete, then pulling equity loans out to afford the 25-30k needed to get a pump setup, compressor, bobcat and mixer needed to continue expansion more efficiently. Now these calcs are for a small rural city. Septic, well and other costs could greatly affect initial payoff dates, but will still work out to be profitable longer term. This all in the scale to make it a self supporting operation. At $100 a unit it would be self financing, but would not be enough to support that much cashflow for either expansion or personal income to live off of. |
|
What is I O 16.5 and I O 32?
I searched around and couldn't find anything to match up with that. I've been researching for building a couple myself. Just need to sell the property I now have to finance my project. OK, I found them In the Rental section |
|
domeliving
has details on the rental units, floorplans etc. has a 2006 price breakdown on building a 20 ft unit, comes out to about 23k revising my estimates, up to 20k for a 16.5 and 60k for a 4 unit still seems insanely cashflowing. The 35sq foot estimate 1bb made earlier in the thread seems to generally hold up, but the smaller domes go over, as the minimum costs of the dome, and nessecary elements add up, IE dome get cheaper with size, but you need a minimum amount in Stove, refrigerator shower, plumbing doors etc, that have a price floor. |
NRA Legacy Life Member, and unrepentant Old Whig
Joined:
Jun 2003
Posts:
29150
EE: 100% (1)
TX, USA
|
Originally Posted By elvia: If you can't park a tank on it, it's just a house. If you can park a tank on it, well... that's when you can really call it a home. Yep, I heard you could park a tank on top and sleep without a worry. I plan on having something similar to that.  |
"When you shoot people, you take what you can get." –– Louis Awerbuck
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
|
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
http://www.lifelinedomes.com/images/backhoe.jpg picture I ran across in my research... may be a perspective trick, but it sure lookes like they literally have a backhoe parked on the roof I'm pretty sure the soil weighs more than the tractor anyway. The rounded entry way reminds me of this picture: 
Murdered teletubbies aside, I kind of like the window & door setup. |
Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you. Pericles
Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.
Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.
|
hmm the tricky part would be finding commercial zone property cheap enough to do these setups, the initial investment on land is rough.
Enough cash to swing the land loan and then build a couple units for cash, then pull an equity loan out for expansion would be tough and is dangerous with a land loan hanging over you if you cannot refinance quick. It may take more then the 40k I have on hand , damn zoning laws
time for more research on markets, demographics and real estate. I do have to wonder with all this, if the profitability is so great why is Monolithic looking to sell morgan meadows, did they overbuild the local rental market? It should be cash flowing enough to hire someone to run it even if they have more profitable things to be doing. |
|
Originally Posted By wsix:
from everything i've looked at, the initial increase in buld costs are paid for in a couple years in energy savings. % years down the road and energy savings are paying the mortgage yea gods, I knew our business tax codes and regulations were arcane, but its ridiculous the amount on minutia I am running into just trying to figure out what to estimate tax rates as in cash flow calculations. Not nearly as much as I expected is deductible either
|
|
not sure if this help any , link john |
MADE IN ENGLAND
By usptac:
Sadly, there are mass graves all over Europe, full of the wrong people.
By usptac:
Sadly, there are mass graves all over Europe, full of the wrong people.
|
It looks to me like it would take about 40k in equipment to start dome building if the foaming is subbed out.
~2k for trailer couple K for old 3/4 or 1 ton truck 5k for monolithic mixer 11k for monolithic pump 1k for air pumps 5-10k for skidsteer ? for compressor. How effective is it really to do it by hand? I assume smaller jobs will have huge overhead for getting a shotcrete sub to move on? Looking mostly at IO-16 or 20s vs the quad plexes |
|
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
hmm been doing much research on these and rental complexes. On a smaller scale then 1big bunker though. following some of his numbers, and a bunch of crunching on my own, looks like maybe ~12000 to build a IO-16.5 ~40000 to build a 4 unit IO-32 At $100 per week target at local rental rates it would be at least break even, probably even profitable (assuming lower vacancy rate and turnover/cleaning costs) The higher prices are probably a limited market in each local, but probably enough to start cashflowing to build bulk units for the lower affordable price breaks. Looks like maybe 50k or so is enough to get started with a couple simple units or one 4 plex, build with subbing out the foam work and hand applying the concrete, then pulling equity loans out to afford the 25-30k needed to get a pump setup, compressor, bobcat and mixer needed to continue expansion more efficiently. Now these calcs are for a small rural city. Septic, well and other costs could greatly affect initial payoff dates, but will still work out to be profitable longer term. This all in the scale to make it a self supporting operation. At $100 a unit it would be self financing, but would not be enough to support that much cashflow for either expansion or personal income to live off of. I'd be interested in seeing your numbers if you dont mind. I actually went to the bank yesterday and the City office to discuss getting such a project off the ground. Its a rural location so I have to be very cost focused or I end up with a rental no one can afford. Fortunately this location makes a good starting point to leverage into a few other markets I would like to get to. I'm still in the planning stages but if I go green light on it I want to break ground this spring. I have another run to the City office today to get more info. If the City doesnt play ball though then thats where it'll stop I'm afraid. Nice thing is my father in law owns a landscaping business and has a Bobcat excavator and 2 skidsteers so equipment wise I'm halfway there. The question is in the concrete equipment. If you have a 804 ft^2 unit thats 32 feet diameter. If you have a 3' deep x 1' think footing thats 12 cubic yards of concrete. Volume being (2*pie*radius)*thickness*depth. 2*3.1415*16=100 (rounded), *1 foot think then *3 for 300 ft^3, /27 for cubic yards so roughly 12. Another 14 cubic yards in the floor (This is a touch high) being 804 ft^2*.5 (6 inch) /27. Shell has a dome surface area of 2613.81 ft^2 assuming 24 foot high. Assume 6 inch walls you get 2600*.5 = 1300 ft^3 /27 = 48 cubic yards of concrete in the dome. Thats a grand total of 48+12+14 = 74 yards of cement. My math *has* to be wrong somewhere. At a round 100 a yard (Which is a bit low here for 9 sack) you have nearly 7500 in cement along. Throw in rebar and foam for around 15-18k total as a guess. Now where I get confused is in the cost/ft^2. If you do the 32' diameter 1BB discussed earlier you get 2 rentals, one on top one on bottom. Does this mean your cost is based on 804*2 = 1608 ft^2? Some of that dome cost is fixed whether you do 1 or 2 units so from that regard it makes sense to go with 2 units to reduce the per rental unit cost on the shell. I have to pour a 32 diameter foundation whether I have 1 or 100 units going up so it makes sense to go with 2 units. So at 35/ft^2 I get 2 numbers. 1 is 56,000 (1608*35) the other is 28,000 (804*35). Is the cost per structure for a 2 story finished dome based on the square footage of 804 or 1608? Such that is the total turn key rental cost 56k or 28k? I still havent sorted out things like figuring cost per wall per linear feet or things like that, still working up numbers in getting just the dome done. Any help anyone can provide would be great! Trying to go into this with both eyes open! |
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
| Delayed double tap so to speak. |
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
|
I am getting similiar numbers, maybe 25 k for a 1 story 804 foot.
Now there are many tradeoffs. Small units come out to be a good bit more per sq ft and unit by a simple ratio, as the airform shell prices have a minimum level so their cost does not scale evenly, and every unit has the same necessities that make up a good part of the cost of finishing them. Weather it is a 1 room efficiency or a 1 bath three bedroom your finishing costs are more similar then would first appear, as alot of the cost of a unit is in the kitchen and bathroom, and basic utilities. It does not cost much to more then some dry wall and aluminum studs to finish a bedroom. Rents are sticky downward as well. A one bedroom goes for a bit more then efficiency etc, but costs more then the increased rent likely. The trade-off is in the versatility and popularity. COst breakdown on IO-20 from domeliving It is looking like I would have a hard time beating current rentals in my location as it is economically depressed. IE it is hard to rent a 1 room dome built for 20k when you can buy a 1000 squarfoot house for the same place. Key seems to be the local availabily of housing and recent population increase or decrease. I have been using a spreadsheet from here to calculate expensesvs return etc.spreadsheet, and very good real estate forum |
|
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
I am getting similiar numbers, maybe 25 k for a 1 story 804 foot. Now there are many tradeoffs. Small units come out to be a good bit more per sq ft and unit by a simple ratio, as the airform shell prices have a minimum level so their cost does not scale evenly, and every unit has the same necessities that make up a good part of the cost of finishing them. Weather it is a 1 room efficiency or a 1 bath three bedroom your finishing costs are more similar then would first appear, as alot of the cost of a unit is in the kitchen and bathroom, and basic utilities. It does not cost much to more then some dry wall and aluminum studs to finish a bedroom. Rents are sticky downward as well. A one bedroom goes for a bit more then efficiency etc, but costs more then the increased rent likely. The trade-off is in the versatility and popularity. COst breakdown on IO-20 from domeliving It is looking like I would have a hard time beating current rentals in my location as it is economically depressed. IE it is hard to rent a 1 room dome built for 20k when you can buy a 1000 squarfoot house for the same place. Key seems to be the local availabily of housing and recent population increase or decrease. I have been using a spreadsheet from here to calculate expensesvs return etc.spreadsheet, and very good real estate forum I can see how this would be a pretty lucrative venture if 2 conditions, and only 2 conditions, are met. 1) Your in an urban center. Rural living is faced with the same barriers be it stick built or dome home. The income levels just arent there to support rent at a level that justifies the costs of a new unit. I can wring out 4-500 in rent regardless of whether I get a 50 year old run down shack or a brand new unit. Anything over that and its "buy time" to the individuals looking. 2) You do the labor. That seems key. You can put up a 2 story unit for...ohhh....Lets say 50k. You get a $400 a month loan repayment, you rent your units at $400 a pop so you pocket 400 a month. Thats good money for the effort. Or you pay someone else to do the heavy lifting labor wise and run the costs up to traditional levels of 80-100 ft^2 and your looking down the barrel of a 800-1000 loan payment and the numbers start to fall apart real fast. Now, if you can meet #2 the numbers would work about anywhere in the country I think. #1 makes the deal a whole lot more attractive though. 
So then the problem with the investor being the labor component becomes an issue of time. I can sub out, say, the foundation and have it start to finish in 3 days. Or I can do it myself on weekends and evenings and have it done in 3 weeks. Ah well. As the saying goes, if there was a get rich quick scheme we'd all be rich right.
I have meeting with the City soon, I know they have some grants available as they have an interest in getting rentals in the area. Hopefully I can work the numbers because I'm close enough to Colorado to hit some big markets if I can get some momentum going. |
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn