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Posted: 9/24/2023 9:45:45 PM EDT
I use Strelok Pro.
At distances out to about 662 yards, the elevation it recommended was just about spot on. However I tried a 952 yard steel target and found I needed another half a mil of elevation to hit the steel shillouette. The instructor had said he found people tend to need another mil or a few more moa past what apps (in general) suggest once they start shooting at elr or almost elr distances. The round I use should still be supersonic well past the range I was shooting at. It has a .535 G1 so it is decent for factory ammo. Have you noticed a distance where the particular app you happen to use underestimates the elevation dialing required? What might cause it? |
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Posted: 9/25/2023 7:30:05 AM EDT
[#1]
I have noticed it with both StrelokPro and Shooter at higher humidity. I kinda wonder if its air density changes at ELR because sometimes it’s spot on and sometimes it can be half a mil higher. And I think it’s hard for the app to adjust for headwind and tailwind. We only have the basic wind data at our location. It’s extremely hard to adjust for headwinds at and between your location and the target.
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Posted: 9/25/2023 6:40:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks. I will try entering the weather data next time.
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Posted: 9/25/2023 9:57:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AKSnowRider]
[#3]
I use Applied Ballistics,it's been dead nuts to 2000 yards, but I shoot a big magnum with hand loads and a .380 G-7 BC....My load is super sonic out to 2100 yards...I could see a normal cartridge needing more dope when reaching way out there, especially if your weather is general terms for the area and not recorded on the spot...
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Posted: 9/25/2023 11:40:58 PM EDT
[#4]
G1 isn't a good approximation of a long range boat tail bullet. Using a G7 BC will likely get you better results, especially at longer ranges. Additionally, your achieved BC may not match what the manufacturer says the bullet has. BC is based on muzzle velocity and twist rate in addition to the bullet's inherent shape. That and many manufacturers inflate their BC compared to commonly achieved BC as a marketing technique.
In short, try a G7 ballistic coefficient. If you're still not getting results that match the calculator data, adjust the BC to compensate. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 8:17:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LoadedDrum]
[#5]
I ran the G7 in Strelok Pro and it was a little closer.
I figure I will try adding weather data to see if will get even closer. Thanks everyone. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoadedDrum: I ran the G7 in Strelok Pro and it was a little closer. I figure I will try adding weather data to see if will get even closer. Thanks everyone. What is your altitude? We’re at 600 feet and high barometric pressure plus a headwind can play with your salutations. Keep those days recorded in your log book. I have noticed that going up in altitude gets a much more consistent solution. But I have never played above 6000’. Yet I have been told it can have the opposite effect above 6000’. Another culprit can be having the coriolis option turned off and altitude density turned off. But that should only equal about half a mil at 1000 yards. Another culprit can be not having your powder temperature velocity entered accurately. G1 vs G7 if your velocity averages are entered correctly shouldn’t be a full mil. Another culprit can be your powder is temperature sensitive and gaining or losing velocity. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:01:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: I use Applied Ballistics,it's been dead nuts to 2000 yards, but I shoot a big magnum with hand loads and a .380 G-7 BC....My load is super sonic out to 2100 yards...I could see a normal cartridge needing more dope when reaching way out there, especially if your weather is general terms for the area and not recorded on the spot... My SIL is running Applied Ballistics and I’m starting to warm up to it. I think it really shines with the kestrel weather station. One of my buddy’s is using it with the kestrel and sig 3000 and getting excellent results. But the solution is not a half mil difference between the StrelokPro. Sometimes two to three tenths. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:10:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: What is your altitude? We’re at 600 feet and high barometric pressure plus a headwind can play with your salutations. Keep those days recorded in your log book. I have noticed that going up in altitude gets a much more consistent solution. But I have never played above 6000’. Yet I have been told it can have the opposite effect above 6000’. Another culprit can be having the coriolis option turned off and altitude density turned off. But that should only equal about half a mil at 1000 yards. Another culprit can be not having your powder temperature velocity entered accurately. G1 vs G7 if your velocity averages are entered correctly shouldn’t be a full mil. Another culprit can be your powder is temperature sensitive and gaining or losing velocity. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: Originally Posted By LoadedDrum: I ran the G7 in Strelok Pro and it was a little closer. I figure I will try adding weather data to see if will get even closer. Thanks everyone. What is your altitude? We’re at 600 feet and high barometric pressure plus a headwind can play with your salutations. Keep those days recorded in your log book. I have noticed that going up in altitude gets a much more consistent solution. But I have never played above 6000’. Yet I have been told it can have the opposite effect above 6000’. Another culprit can be having the coriolis option turned off and altitude density turned off. But that should only equal about half a mil at 1000 yards. Another culprit can be not having your powder temperature velocity entered accurately. G1 vs G7 if your velocity averages are entered correctly shouldn’t be a full mil. Another culprit can be your powder is temperature sensitive and gaining or losing velocity. The range I shot 952 yards at is around 728ft, facing north. The range I zeroed at is about 100 feet higher and facing east. Temps were similar but I don't know the values. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 12:09:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: My SIL is running Applied Ballistics and I’m starting to warm up to it. I think it really shines with the kestrel weather station. One of my buddy’s is using it with the kestrel and sig 3000 and getting excellent results. But the solution is not a half mil difference between the StrelokPro. Sometimes two to three tenths. I run the old kilo 2400, with on board weather and the AB ballistic software, it's been very very accurate with everything I have used it for, and includes a BC calculator and a velocity calculator that allows you to correct your dope versus what the program gives...It allows you to choose one or the other or both to true your dope... |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 3:56:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoadedDrum: The range I shot 952 yards at is around 728ft, facing north. The range I zeroed at is about 100 feet higher and facing east. Temps were similar but I don't know the values. I don’t think it’s coriolis. That is usually facing E or W. I’m betting that you need to true your BC through your powder velocity range.  Attached File Attached FileThis function allows you to use your internal barometer and calculates for zero temperature differences. But it can still vary just a bit from tailwind or headwind. That’s why we use a log book. Now flatter shooting rifles vary less. I used my RPR in .223.  Attached FileThis is your velocity and bc trueing page. It’s the target with the up and down arrow key. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 3:59:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: I run the old kilo 2400, with on board weather and the AB ballistic software, it's been very very accurate with everything I have used it for, and includes a BC calculator and a velocity calculator that allows you to correct your dope versus what the program gives...It allows you to choose one or the other or both to true your dope... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By sparkyD: My SIL is running Applied Ballistics and I’m starting to warm up to it. I think it really shines with the kestrel weather station. One of my buddy’s is using it with the kestrel and sig 3000 and getting excellent results. But the solution is not a half mil difference between the StrelokPro. Sometimes two to three tenths. I run the old kilo 2400, with on board weather and the AB ballistic software, it's been very very accurate with everything I have used it for, and includes a BC calculator and a velocity calculator that allows you to correct your dope versus what the program gives...It allows you to choose one or the other or both to true your dope... I have the old Kilo 1600 and Leupold 1200. I don’t think they will pair. But I think I need to play with my SIL’s app. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 4:20:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AKSnowRider]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: I have the old Kilo 1600 and Leupold 1200. I don’t think they will pair. But I think I need to play with my SIL’s app. I don't think they will pair either..the 2400 is a stand alone so you don't have to buy a kestrel as well as the RF, it all comes in 1 small package...it does pair with your phone, but its not a have to have to use it, other than for wind..The RF comes with a wind meter that plugs into your phone and reports right to the app which syncs with the RF..I rarely use the wind meter...All other weather it takes on the RF itself... |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 8:47:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: I don't think they will pair either..the 2400 is a stand alone so you don't have to buy a kestrel as well as the RF, it all comes in 1 small package...it does pair with your phone, but its not a have to have to use it, other than for wind..The RF comes with a wind meter that plugs into your phone and reports right to the app which syncs with the RF..I rarely use the wind meter...All other weather it takes on the RF itself... I don’t use my wind meter much either. It’s some off brand we use in the chicken houses to calibrate our computer to the fans to get accurate wind speed data. The wind here is so squirrely it can be one way then there’s a gulch or timber line that creates a different funnel and direction. But I wasn’t gonna gripe about a free wind meter several years ago when they were really expensive. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:34:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: I don’t think it’s coriolis. That is usually facing E or W. I’m betting that you need to true your BC through your powder velocity range. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1926_png-2967299.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1927_png-2967301.JPG This function allows you to use your internal barometer and calculates for zero temperature differences. But it can still vary just a bit from tailwind or headwind. That’s why we use a log book. Now flatter shooting rifles vary less. I used my RPR in .223. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1928_png-2967310.JPG This is your velocity and bc trueing page. It’s the target with the up and down arrow key. I was just playing with that portion of Strelok Pro and when I put in the barometric pressure and elevation of the range, I ended up with in a 10th of a mil of what I needed on Sunday. 
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Posted: 9/27/2023 4:06:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoadedDrum: I was just playing with that portion of Strelok Pro and when I put in the barometric pressure and elevation of the range, I ended up with in a 10th of a mil of what I needed on Sunday. Make sure you’re using station or absolute pressure, not corrected barometric pressure. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 9:34:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoadedDrum: I was just playing with that portion of Strelok Pro and when I put in the barometric pressure and elevation of the range, I ended up with in a 10th of a mil of what I needed on Sunday. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoadedDrum: Originally Posted By sparkyD: I don’t think it’s coriolis. That is usually facing E or W. I’m betting that you need to true your BC through your powder velocity range. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1926_png-2967299.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1927_png-2967301.JPG This function allows you to use your internal barometer and calculates for zero temperature differences. But it can still vary just a bit from tailwind or headwind. That’s why we use a log book. Now flatter shooting rifles vary less. I used my RPR in .223. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1928_png-2967310.JPG This is your velocity and bc trueing page. It’s the target with the up and down arrow key. I was just playing with that portion of Strelok Pro and when I put in the barometric pressure and elevation of the range, I ended up with in a 10th of a mil of what I needed on Sunday. That’s a good thing. But when you have a tailwind or headwind take notes because it can still be a bit off. There is no data like actual shot data. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2023 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#17]
This place is a wealth of knowledge.
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Posted: 12/1/2023 8:35:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: That’s a good thing. But when you have a tailwind or headwind take notes because it can still be a bit off. There is no data like actual shot data. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: Originally Posted By LoadedDrum: Originally Posted By sparkyD: I don’t think it’s coriolis. That is usually facing E or W. I’m betting that you need to true your BC through your powder velocity range. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1926_png-2967299.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1927_png-2967301.JPG This function allows you to use your internal barometer and calculates for zero temperature differences. But it can still vary just a bit from tailwind or headwind. That’s why we use a log book. Now flatter shooting rifles vary less. I used my RPR in .223. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/232954/IMG_1928_png-2967310.JPG This is your velocity and bc trueing page. It’s the target with the up and down arrow key. I was just playing with that portion of Strelok Pro and when I put in the barometric pressure and elevation of the range, I ended up with in a 10th of a mil of what I needed on Sunday. That’s a good thing. But when you have a tailwind or headwind take notes because it can still be a bit off. There is no data like actual shot data. Agreed. I need to get a Kestrel so I can learn to correlate wind speed/direction with visible indicators. |
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Posted: 12/17/2023 10:13:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoadedDrum: Agreed. I need to get a Kestrel so I can learn to correlate wind speed/direction with visible indicators. A kestrel and LRF are an instant must have if you plan on doing any kind of precision shooting. |
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Posted: 2/20/2024 7:18:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RePp: A kestrel and LRF are an instant must have if you plan on doing any kind of precision shooting. Which ones do you recommend? |
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Posted: 2/20/2024 10:28:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marksman14: Which ones do you recommend? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marksman14: Originally Posted By RePp: A kestrel and LRF are an instant must have if you plan on doing any kind of precision shooting. Which ones do you recommend? The concensus Kestrel according to everything I have read is the 5700. I have not seen a concensus LRF however. |
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Posted: 2/20/2024 10:33:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoadedDrum: The concensus Kestrel according to everything I have read is the 5700. I have not seen a concensus LRF however. 5700 is pretty much the standard and far as a lrf I’m a huge fan of lrf binos. Sig, vortex are good and if you have some extra money the swaro and leicas are epic. |
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