Posted: 11/13/2025 3:20:43 PM EDT
| I’m in the market for a decent bolt action rifle in 223 that can handle up to 70 grain bullets. The fastest non custom twist rate barrel is 1/7. Don’t want a custom gun something off the shelf is fine. What are your recommendations? |
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Off the shelf, there are two rifles which stand out, Savage a single shot .223 bolt action in 1:7. which is made for LR accuracy. The other one is a Tikka T3 Ace which is available in 1:8 twist which deserves a look |
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Originally Posted By 50-140: Off the shelf, there are two rifles which stand out, Savage a single shot .223 bolt action in 1:7. which is made for LR accuracy. The other one is a Tikka T3 Ace which is available in 1:8 twist which deserves a look 1:8 is good for 70s no problem. I think 1:8 might only be a problem at the super heavies, like 88/90s? |
| I had a Savage Model 10 in .223 with 26" heavy barrel 1/9 twist that handled Nosler 69 gr. HPBT bullets very well. It would shoot 100 yard one hole groups if I did my part. Just a thought. |
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| Keep the response coming guys. I have a Remington LTR with the 1/9 20” barrel and although the TSX was “stable” and did not keyhole at 100 yards was giving me 7” groups. Because the TSX round is all copper and a very long round , the 1/8 barrels will probably not do any better with that round. |
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An 8 twist with the higher velocity you can generally get out of a longer barrel will easily stabilize just about anything from 55 to 77 grains. The only time I would go to a 7 is if you really want to shoot something like a 85. Remember, its not just about the twist rate, velocity also enters the equation. Over spinning a bullet can cause thinner jacketed bullets fly apart, and can cause less consistent projectiles to have accuracy issues. https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ |
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Originally Posted By dnguyen747: Keep the response coming guys. I have a Remington LTR with the 1/9 20” barrel and although the TSX was “stable” and did not keyhole at 100 yards was giving me 7” groups. Because the TSX round is all copper and a very long round , the 1/8 barrels will probably not do any better with that round. Originally Posted By dnguyen747: Keep the response coming guys. I have a Remington LTR with the 1/9 20” barrel and although the TSX was “stable” and did not keyhole at 100 yards was giving me 7” groups. Because the TSX round is all copper and a very long round , the 1/8 barrels will probably not do any better with that round. Why don't you think the 8 will do better than a 9? Are you seeing people with issues? Originally Posted By Kaldor: An 8 twist with the higher velocity you can generally get out of a longer barrel will easily stabilize just about anything from 55 to 77 grains. The only time I would go to a 7 is if you really want to shoot something like a 85. Remember, its not just about the twist rate, velocity also enters the equation. Over spinning a bullet can cause thinner jacketed bullets fly apart, and can cause less consistent projectiles to have accuracy issues. https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ As he mentioned the problem with TSX is that it's long. I think it's longer than most 77gr BTHP bullets. That being said a quick search shows plenty of people having good luck with 8 twist and that's what Barnes lists as the minimum twist rate https://barnesbullets.com/0-224-22-cal-tsx-bt/. I'd only think you could run into issues with a very short barrel. |
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This is one of those situations where a Origin action with a prefit is a pretty good option. Just depends on the budget. I think the 8 twist will probably work so I'd just buy a Ruger or Tikka depending on what features and budget allow. No need to make it difficult. The other option is not basing your gun around a single projectile but I don't know what OP's situation is. Originally Posted By 50-140: Off the shelf, there are two rifles which stand out, Savage a single shot .223 bolt action in 1:7. which is made for LR accuracy. The other one is a Tikka T3 Ace which is available in 1:8 twist which deserves a look Not many people like single shots. Savage list two other guns with 7 twists that are repeaters one conventional and one chassis gun. They used to do a gun with that big FTR action but a repeater but I can't remember what they called it. The problem I have is that the Savage 7 twist guns are expensive. They never did their normal Predator/Varmint guns with 7 twists as far as I know. Savage 12 Varminter Low Profile Savage 110 Elite Precision |
BikerNut:
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| To clarify, my LTR handles 62 grn OTM and 65 grn soft points without an issue. But l want a rifle that can handle all three loads. On line research indicates that 1/8 twist is the minimum for a 70 grain and that’s for a lead core bullet. The TSX is all copper and is longer than the SMK 77 grn bullet. That’s why I’m going with 1/7. |
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Originally Posted By dnguyen747: To clarify, my LTR handles 62 grn OTM and 65 grn soft points without an issue. But l want a rifle that can handle all three loads. On line research indicates that 1/8 twist is the minimum for a 70 grain and that’s for a lead core bullet. The TSX is all copper and is longer than the SMK 77 grn bullet. That’s why I’m going with 1/7. Did you see where Barnes list 1:8 for that bullet? I linked it in my post. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
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You should obviously go with whatever you want I just don't understand why you equating the 1:8 with your 1:9. There's a reason the 8 was popular with Service Rifle shooters who use the 80gr SMK and similar which I think is actually a bit longer than your TSX. The 1:7 became necessary because of the long tracer the army was using. The reason there are so few options is because it's just not necessary. I still think a premium action with a prefit is the way to go. Proof does 1:7 prefits for under $700. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
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People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: You should obviously go with whatever you want I just don't understand why you equating the 1:8 with your 1:9. There's a reason the 8 was popular with Service Rifle shooters who use the 80gr SMK and similar which I think is actually a bit longer than your TSX. The 1:7 became necessary because of the long tracer the army was using. The reason there are so few options is because it's just not necessary. I still think a premium action with a prefit is the way to go. Proof does 1:7 prefits for under $700. For some reason this is not a widely known fact... I think most people believe it has to do with 62 grain penatrators or 77 grain HPBT's. To the OP, do you have a strict budget? I wouldn't let the twist rate be your #1 driving variable if you are limited by budget. You might leave better options on the table if a 1/8 twist is the only reason you won't get them. You should have no problem stabalizing heavy-for-caliber projectiles with a 1/8. If you're not budget limited, I drank the Q coolaid and am an enjoyer of my mini Fix... |
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| Unfortunately, I’m not Mr. Moneybags and I do have a budget on this rifle. I’m seriously looking at the CZ 600 Alpha+ in 223. 24” 1/7 barrel thats suppressor ready. It also has a more rigid stock that’s fiber reinforced. Has anyone tried one out? It doesn’t necessarily have to be in 223. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: I’d look for a Tikka w/ a 1:8 twist. We’ve taken out 223’s out to 1200yds with a 1:8twist and 75eld’s. No issue stabilizing the 80eld either, but I’ve saved those for 224v/22arc. That's good to know both are longer than the TSX. I was really close to buying a Ruger Predator and found a Tikka used. Need to get out and shoot it. |
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Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
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I really wish Howa didn't discontinue their short action 223. I wanted one forever, but for some reason they had a stupid slow twist. An the second they start making them in a proper twist , the have it leave a short while later. The mini is just stupid with its front mag release. But that is an option if you don't mind. Good price for a barreled action on Brownells. They upped the price again, stupid Brownells. Howa Mini 223 HB There is the Tikka T3x in any flavor, but they are a bit more expensive then most options, but really nice. I like the idea of the CZ 600 rifles, but none of them are in a good configuration for me. Rem Arms is making the 783 again and it has a 1-7 or 1-8 twist in 223 on the Heavy Barrel threaded model. They have two flavors of 700 in 223. The SPS tactical threaded and the Varmint/SF. Both have 1-8 twist. The SPS has a 16.5 inch barrel and the Varmint has a 26 inch. All new 700s come with a timney trigger which is nice. 783 HB TB 700 SPS tactical threaded 700 Varmint 700 Varmint SF Ruger just released two heavy barrel American Gen 2 models. They measure in at .850 at the muzzle. So slightly thicker then a Remington Varmint profile which is .830 at the muzzle. The Prairie and the Patrol and both are 1-8. The Prairie has the better 20 inch barrel, but unfortunately is fluted. The Patrol is unfluted thankfully, but only had a 16 inch barrel. So neither are super ideal for me. Would prefer a 20 inch barrel model with no flutes. Something weird that is not a pro or con at the moment. The newest models have thicker bolts then the other models. Patrol 223 Prairie 223 There are probably more. Like some savage models or CVA. I know Bergara doesn't have a heavy barrel 223 model unfortunately. Only the light weight hunter barrel Alpha model. I know you didn't want a custom rifle. But the Aero Solus comes in 223. It is just hard to find. They come in complete rifles, barreled actions and just barrel and action. So it has the potential to be a semi custom. They are just hard to find with Aero being so back logged. Aero Solus 223 |
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I have no idea what current bolt action rifles are available with a 1-7 or 1-8 twist. If you want to shoot 73, 75s, and 77s in a .223 Remington or 5.56mm you can get by with a 1-9 but you'll do better with a 1-8. A 1-7 or 1-8 will allow you to shoot 80s (Sierras, Noslers, Bergers, etc.). If you're going to 90s you'll want a 1-6.5. Something like a pawn shop 700 or a 700 Varmint can be re-barreled, bedded, and tuned for 1,000-yard competition if you are proficient reading winds. If you're still determined to use a .22 you might want to consider a 223 Ackley Improved or a 22-250 (especially if you're going to have a gunsmith install a new barrel). |
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Originally Posted By Sinister: I have no idea what current bolt action rifles are available with a 1-7 or 1-8 twist. If you want to shoot 73, 75s, and 77s in a .223 Remington or 5.56mm you can get by with a 1-9 but you'll do better with a 1-8. A 1-7 or 1-8 will allow you to shoot 80s (Sierras, Noslers, Bergers, etc.). If you're going to 90s you'll want a 1-6.5. Something like a pawn shop 700 or a 700 Varmint can be re-barreled, bedded, and tuned for 1,000-yard competition if you are proficient reading winds. If you're still determined to use a .22 you might want to consider a 223 Ackley Improved or a 22-250 (especially if you're going to have a gunsmith install a new barrel). He's using a 70gr TSX |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By dnguyen747: Unfortunately, I’m not Mr. Moneybags and I do have a budget on this rifle. I’m seriously looking at the CZ 600 Alpha+ in 223. 24” 1/7 barrel thats suppressor ready. It also has a more rigid stock that’s fiber reinforced. Has anyone tried one out? It doesn’t necessarily have to be in 223. What exactly do you require and what's flexible? You can buy a Ruger in 22 ARC and they have a 1:7 twist. Do you reload or only shoot factory ammo? Is the Barnes 70 TSX the bullet you have chosen? |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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I grabbed a 5.56 gen2 Ranch at Scheels. 1/8 twist. Should be a fun budget blaster Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By dnguyen747: Unfortunately, I'm not Mr. Moneybags and I do have a budget on this rifle. I'm seriously looking at the CZ 600 Alpha+ in 223. 24" 1/7 barrel thats suppressor ready. It also has a more rigid stock that's fiber reinforced. Has anyone tried one out? It doesn't necessarily have to be in 223. |
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My new Ranch (1/8 twist) likes the AAC 77g OTM. That's shots 2-9 after adjusting the scope off of the first shot. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By mike_nds: My new Remington 700 has a 1/8 twist and I was shooting 77gr Razor Core to 1000y no problem.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/IMG_3750-3612511.jpg That would be impressive with that scope/base combo. |
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Put a Timney trigger in my Ruger American Ranch today and took it out. It was doing well with AAC 77g OTM. Ten shots prone off a bipod with the OEM Tupperware stock and no back bag: Attached File |
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1:7 and 1:9 twists |
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This will save you a ton of potential headaches on rough actions, feeding or whatever other problems may await you by trying lower end guns. Say what you will Savage and Ruger may put out a decent product for the average consumer but they are no where near Tikka in regards to factory guns. Sure you could get an action, etc, etc and put together one for money spent the one below will more than satisfy you. It has a 6 round mag, you can have a lower cap one if wanting a flush fit. Unless you are doing something like PRS, the mag capacity is fine. If you reload, I don't remember cartridge OAL limits on the magazine. https://www.eurooptic.com/tikka-t3x-super-varmint-rt-gr-223-rem-r8-pic-ss-20-mt-6rd-rifle-jrtxrsv312r8 |
| Cool deal those look like decent guns. I notice they are advertising user swappable barrels again. I thought they did away with that. That makes them a little more versatile. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.