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Posted: 6/26/2024 10:01:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
I've been toying around with the idea of getting an AR that is capable of consistent sub-MOA groups with the right loads, all without breaking the bank. My own research has led me to think one of these two options would fit the bill:
1) White Oak 18" SPR upper I would a lower, LPK already. I would complete it with a Geissele SSA-E and a Magpul PRS-E stock. 2) Ruger MPR with Proof Barrel Complete rifle, nothing else needed The WOA option would be about $500 cheaper altogether. I've heard really good things about WOA barrels (Wilson blanks, I believe), but everyone raves about the Proof barrels. Let me give a little bit of background on what the gun would be used for. First of all, I'm an occasional shooter, not a competitor. Primarily, my usual rage only has 100 and 200 yard distances, so I would normally be confined to that range. My only other "precision-ish" gun is a Savage 10FP in 6.5CM. I can get that to shoot 0.5MOA some days, and just a little over 1MOA on others. I'm usually right about 1MOA with my reloads. I would like a gun that gets consistent 1MOA or better loads. When I say "better", I don't mean consistent 0.5MOA groups - I'm not looking for a miracles, but I would like something that is consistently 1MOA or less if I do my part and I develop a good load with 77 SMKs or something like that. My price point is around $1500 or so for the complete gun. If you guys have some suggestions for a rig that would meet those criteria that I haven't considered, then I would greatly appreciate it. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/26/2024 10:19:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jebova2301]
[#1]
I don't have any experience with proof barrels in 223/5.56, but I have a 308 barrel from them and it is a good shooter. That said, it isn't as good a shooter as the white oak precision barrel I have. Mine is a 20" 1:7.7 from a kreiger blank.
If I were to buy another barrel for precision purposes, I wouldn't hesitate to go with white oak again. Here's a target while I was dialing the load in at 100 yards for the white oak with some 55gr vmax for coyotes, groundhogs, and raccoons around the property. 
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Posted: 6/26/2024 10:22:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: W_E_G]
[#2]
If you are going to put a big honking PRS stock on it, why would you not go with at least a 20" barrel?
White Oak has some great 22" (more than that doesn't do much for 5.56) target/varmint uppers. https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/22-inch-varmint-uppers-223-5-56.html  Attached FileI wouldn't pay the extra for the features on the Ruger lower unless I really was impressed with Ruger. Which I'm not. Plus they say on the Ruger website: "The muzzle is finished with Ruger's radial port muzzle brake." I despise brakes on target guns. So does EVERYBODY ELSE on the firing line at the range. If its going to be a dedicated .223 target gun, why have ANY SORT of noise-maker/trash-collector at the muzzle? |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 10:36:59 AM EDT
[#3]
OK - sounds like you guys are really impressed with WOA barrels. That's good to know. The reason I was looking at the Ruger is due to the very expensive Proof barrel, which I took as synonymous with super precision a la Krieger.
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Posted: 6/26/2024 1:36:57 PM EDT
[#4]
One last option to consider, it's not a turnkey solution like the ones you mentioned though.
Contact a really good precision smith/machinist, and have him cut a custom barrel for you. It will likely cost you more than the WOA upper just for the barrel. But I know of at least one that does it and gives a 1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee. He usually builds high-end bolt actions that cost thousands of dollars and carry that 1/2 MOA warranty, but he does AR's too. He has one that will do 3/8 MOA. Drawback to that kinda precision barrel, is that they are unlined, not a barrel for someone wanting to put a high round count on. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 3:09:38 PM EDT
[#5]
In my opinion your goal of a sub-MOA AR isn't too tall of an order to fill now days while on a budget. All the major components, rifle (barrel), scope, and ammo, can be sourced with quality in mind without spending a ton.
I have multiple AR's from 16" to 24" that are dependable MOA and under shooters and I didn't break the bank building them. I have barrels from "cheaper sources" such as DPMS and Wilson, and higher cost barrels from WOA, Criterion, and Douglas. Scopes range from a cheap Bushnell Forge to better Viper PST's to Leupolds. At the ranges you're shooting, you won't need an expensive hi-end HD glass scope costing big money. With a build, I'd allow more weight in the barrel vs. the stock, I'd ditch the PRS. I've swapped out all my PRS stocks in recent years except one. I just find them heavy. Like many guys here I can post pic after pic of cherry picked groups... but the two below are 10-shot groups and represent what the rifles will do on demand, which to me matters... what can a rifle do "on demand"? A 24" SS Bull Barrel believed to be a Wilson barrel, I got this form Model 1 Sales years ago...  A 20" DPMS Bead-Blasted SS barrel...  A WOA barrel is a great place to start IMO. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 3:18:58 PM EDT
[#6]
You will be happy with a whit oak upper. They are a great value and good shooters.
Also consider a Craddock RTR upper. They cut really nice barrels. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 3:29:37 PM EDT
[#7]
There is a guy here in Maine that buys complete 20" AR uppers from WOA, the Wilson barreled house brand barrels not expensive Bartleins, Brux or Krieger. He get's complete uppers and shoots them in the AR-Tactical class at the 3X600 matches.
He shot a 200-20X on the NRA MR target @ 600 yards with Sierra 77 TMKs. The target has a 6" X ring. Can't expect much more than that from an AR. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 3:29:47 PM EDT
[#8]
The Proof is a very, very good cut-rifled blank done on automated equipment, then carbon fiber wrapped. It has very good precision potential and cut rifled barrels lost a long time.
John Holliger at White Oak will use a good Wilson or Douglas blank and turn each individually. You have exceptional precision potential because they are turned, chambered, threaded, and assembled individually. Button-rifled barrels have good precision service life, but typically not as long as a cut barrel. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 3:51:04 PM EDT
[#9]
A cost effective Service Rifle is what you seek. These are guns design to blow out the Xring at 600 yards all day long. And lay down 600 yard 50nsecond mag dumps on silhouettes at 600 yards with every shot a hit.
20" is the ideal length for good velocity yet still some hardiness. At distance, that extra speed starts having real value - skip the 18". It also keeps the gun legal for service rifle if you ever get the gumption. 22" is too long, and I never saw the value. There is a category called AR-Tactical that's a lot of fun without all the goofy shit. You plunk down on your firing point 30 feet from your car, and shoot 600 yards wearing Bermuda shorts and a T'shirt firing prone over the next 20 minutes. It's fun, you'd like it - and so long as 20" and no muzzle break, you are legal. No expensive spotting scope, no shooting coat, no Glove, no humping all your shit from 200 to 300 to 600 yards. none of all that. In general, an HBAR 20" weighs enough that a muzzle.break is meaningless benefit, for 5.56. For the longest time Rock River Arms National Match was the dominant complete gun, but these days I'd start looking at a White Oak. Lower I suggest run a UBR with A5 buffer (it comes with the A5 buffer tube already), and a 2 stage trigger, like a Geissele. Get the free floated railed version upper. 1/7 twist is fine, but not critical, as a 20" gives enough velocity to give enough RPM to stabilize a long 80 even at 1/8. Given the choice, 1/7.5 is myfavorite for a NM 20" - but honestly, it doesn't make a big difference either way. And just run an A2 FH, as that is competition legal and actually a pretty great muzzle device. You could go bare - but after Clinton AWB '94 - I still can't stand that to this day- and muzzle device everything. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 4:04:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#10]
Service Rifle National Match 20" BBL.
 https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/2a4-shilen.html Stick with A2 FH, a break is meaningless.on a 5.56 HBAR, and will make it not competition legal for the cross over to service rifle. Service Rifle isn’t your game - but AR-Tactical is, very easy and fun and no screwing around with standing position or lugging your shit to different yard lines. No spotting scope, no shooting coat, none of that. Show up in Bermuda Shorts and a towel to lay on and shoot your gun prone from a bipod or ruck sack at 600 yards. Legal to do at any Midrange Match. Look up Bayou Rifles and Temple Gun Club if in Austin or Houston Area. Don't show up at a PRS Match if you don't already know your gun zero and.behavior at regulated 600 yard distance first - which that will give you. Easy, Fun, digital targets - done by lunch. Here, get this stock  https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/magpul-ar-15-ubr-gen-2-stock.html Which comes with A5 buffer sized tube, for the better A5 buffer system. (I.e. Just buy a mid-weight A5 buffer and conventional Rifle spring) o just run it with a conventional carbine buffer and spring, using the provided internal.spacer. And get a 2-stage trigger - Geissele, at 4.5lb. For 2 stage, 4.5 is fine, it's still just a 2lb break at the end. Now you have an Excellent PRS gun that will eaisly reach 800 yards and kinda reach 1000, that you can use PRS, National Match severice Rifle, NTIT competition (my favorite), and AR-Tactical (which you will like), as well as just general precision shooting. Amd you can mount a bipod to at your leisure. In fact, here:  
(Try with code: 3QC7UQRK ) [Sorry for the semi-dohble post, something went awry on my end] |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 4:28:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#11]
You guys have convinced me to stick with WOA. I also emailed them and got a quick reply from them. They also suggested 20" so that's what I'll go with, along with a Varmint upper (1" barrel). I guess the idea is that the SPR profile barrel will heat up quicker. I will probably split the difference and just order the 20" Predator complete upper from them: https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/predator-uppers-1-8-and-1-12-twist-223-5-56.html
 The primary difference between the Predator and our Varmint series is the barrel profile. Predator barrels are turned to a slightly smaller outer diameter (.900" under the handguard, .875" at the gas block, and .760" forward of the gas block), this results in a barrel about half a pound lighter than our varmint barrels. THe muzzle is threaded 5/8x24 and a thread protector is installed. I assume any ol' generic lower will do as long as I put a decent trigger in it. Thanks also for the stock suggestion - I will revisit that aspect... |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 4:46:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Stupid question: Why do a lot of the varmint/predator uppers use such clunky gas blocks? Or do they just look bigger than they really are?
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Posted: 6/26/2024 4:51:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Stupid question: Why do a lot of the varmint/predator uppers use such clunky gas blocks? Or do they just look bigger than they really are? I haven't it seen put in so many words. But advantages include heat management, and additional weight out front to stabilize the guns moment arm. Service Rifle shooters want the heaviest gun you can get, and will even add lead weights. But likley the main reason is, the big ones are clamp attached, vs a high stress compressed bolt run into barrel. For an even compression on the barrel, vs a high stress induced point from the direct screw contact. And yes, any lower will do - including good old Anderson. Also, stay clear of MagPul BAD's. Single largest cause of gun jams I see on the line, are those. Not all guns with BAD jam, but when I do see a jam or failure to lock, a BAD is often involved. (In HighPower competition, Competitors also cycle to ScoreKeeper, and are to watch,.count rounds, and record the score of the other competitor on his fire point, so you get to see a lot of rounds sent down range in an official observer status looking closely at his gun cycling - and learn stuff). |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 7:09:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: You guys have convinced me to stick with WOA. I also emailed them and got a quick reply from them. They also suggested 20" so that's what I'll go with I assume any ol' generic lower will do as long as I put a decent trigger in it. Thanks also for the stock suggestion - I will revisit that aspect... You chose well. I've been shooting White Oak competition service rifle uppers for years. Very reliable, very accurate, and most importantly: ZERO WEIRDNESS. We always hear stories about guys with their uber-accurate sub-half-MOA guns that have some sort SUPER WEIRDO setup that they claim is the cat's ass. White Oak just flat out gets the job done. White Oak does it so well that you will often be disappointed when you shoot it. You will be disappointed in YOUR SELF. White Oak shoots so well, that when you "throw one" it shows up clearly outside the group. How many times have I shot THE BAD SHOT, only to spoil what would otherwise have been an oustanding group! Oh well. Equipment did its job to humiliate me yet again. Try again tomorrow. With confidence. Because the equipment just flat-out works. Let me close by saying DO NOT attempt to remove the barrel from a White Oak upper. John Holliger uses some sort of concoction of RED AND GREEN Loctite to put those fuckers together, that you WILL NEVER GET IT APART without destroying something. If you ever "shoot out" your White Oak upper, PLEASE SEND IT BACK TO WHITE OAK FOR RE-BARRELING. I have seen several of my dumb-ass service rifle friends try to re-barrel White Oak uppers. I don't think one of them has gotten the barrel off yet without really tearing up a bunch of shit, and basically making themselves look like a complete ass. And that's what you want. You don't want that upper to shake itself loose during firing. Not at any point during its lifespan. Send it back to White Oak if it needs a barrrel. John Holliger put it together with GLUE. John knows how much torch it takes to free the glue, and he has the right tools to not destroy shit when he's un-screwing it. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 7:16:28 PM EDT
[#15]
The BAD lever is a very polarizing subject.
I don't have one on any of my guns, simply because I don't want to stick my finger in the trigger guard for any reason except to manipulate the trigger. Separately, there is the reliablility/malfunction issue associated with BAD levers. I will allow that BAD levers CAN be set up to function correctly. A lot of them are not properly set up. So drama at the range. I live in fear that I would trip the lever and simultaneously stick my booger hook where it doesn't belong and I'd have (another) ND. I'm trying to quit doing that. Did I mention I hold the International Record for the shot fired farthest toward Canada from the Camp Perry ranges? Pretty sure that record is still standing after THIRTY YEARS. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until your sights are on the target, and you really are ready to discharge the gun. Use whatever stock best suits your application. There are lots of stocks for AR's. None of them are "best" for every application. And I don't think its been mentioned, White Oak sets up their uppers (mainly gas-port size) to work with STANDARD WEIGHT buffers and STANDARD WEIGHT buffer springs. So if you go fooling around with WEIRD buffers and WEIRD springs, don't be surprised if reliability gets WEIRD. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 8:31:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: The BAD lever is a very polarizing subject. One of the most useless pieces of gear ever designed and sold. When I was a SWAT Team Commander a fellow team mate showed up one day with one on his rifle. I told him it was a bad idea... he asked why... I told him the answer was simple... continuity in platform. Continuity in platform is a real thing for those serious about training and muscle memory (or what ever you like to call it). He defended his choice so I let it ride. A couple months later he was instructing in our shoot house. There came a time where he wanted to demo something live fire and asked to borrow a rifle. From up above on the catwalk I watched him enter the room, fire, and when he executed a magazine change on a bolt lock back, he fumbled looking for the bad lever. Obviously it wasn't there as it was not his rifle. Without pause, he looked up at me and said something to the effect he will be removing the bad lever ASAP and returning to a standard SOP. It's like driving a column shift for years and suddenly finding yourself with a floor shift... it's real, I don't care who says otherwise as I've seen it first hand too many times. The AR as designed is efficient when doing a mag change with a proper grip on a mag... your thumb is already in the correct spot. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 8:43:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: I haven't it seen put in so many words. But advantages include heat management, and additional weight out front to stabilize the guns moment arm. Service Rifle shooters want the heaviest gun you can get, and will even add lead weights. But likley the main reason is, the big ones are clamp attached, vs a high stress compressed bolt run into barrel. For an even compression on the barrel, vs a high stress induced point from the direct screw contact. And yes, any lower will do - including good old Anderson. Also, stay clear of MagPul BAD's. Single largest cause of gun jams I see on the line, are those. Not all guns with BAD jam, but when I do see a jam or failure to lock, a BAD is often involved. (In HighPower competition, Competitors also cycle to ScoreKeeper, and are to watch,.count rounds, and record the score of the other competitor on his fire point, so you get to see a lot of rounds sent down range in an official observer status looking closely at his gun cycling - and learn stuff). Yup. That's what they said. Plus, the barrel is thicker than average. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 8:44:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: You chose well. I've been shooting White Oak competition service rifle uppers for years. Very reliable, very accurate, and most importantly: ZERO WEIRDNESS. We always hear stories about guys with their uber-accurate sub-half-MOA guns that have some sort SUPER WEIRDO setup that they claim is the cat's ass. White Oak just flat out gets the job done. White Oak does it so well that you will often be disappointed when you shoot it. You will be disappointed in YOUR SELF. White Oak shoots so well, that when you "throw one" it shows up clearly outside the group. How many times have I shot THE BAD SHOT, only to spoil what would otherwise have been an oustanding group! Oh well. Equipment did its job to humiliate me yet again. Try again tomorrow. With confidence. Because the equipment just flat-out works. Let me close by saying DO NOT attempt to remove the barrel from a White Oak upper. John Holliger uses some sort of concoction of RED AND GREEN Loctite to put those fuckers together, that you WILL NEVER GET IT APART without destroying something. If you ever "shoot out" your White Oak upper, PLEASE SEND IT BACK TO WHITE OAK FOR RE-BARRELING. I have seen several of my dumb-ass service rifle friends try to re-barrel White Oak uppers. I don't think one of them has gotten the barrel off yet without really tearing up a bunch of shit, and basically making themselves look like a complete ass. And that's what you want. You don't want that upper to shake itself loose during firing. Not at any point during its lifespan. Send it back to White Oak if it needs a barrrel. John Holliger put it together with GLUE. John knows how much torch it takes to free the glue, and he has the right tools to not destroy shit when he's un-screwing it. I doubt that barrel will ever wear out as little as I shoot. I'm going to order it tomorrow. Thanks for your advice. 
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Posted: 6/26/2024 8:55:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: One of the most useless pieces of gear ever designed and sold. Easy way to fix that is just make sure that all the rifles on the team have them. They serve a purpose. If that makes things easier, depends on your application. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 9:06:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bowhntr6pt]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bpm990d: Easy way to fix that is just make sure that all the rifles Fixed it for you. Why alter 30+ rifles and require retraining for 25 guys for a piece of gear that brings nothing to the table for one operator? Not to mention the rifles on road patrol, which are in the hundreds, that all the SWAT guys would potentially have access to either on loan or in an emergency. They add absolutely nothing and make nothing easier. The AR's bolt release is quite fine, ergonomic, and capable as designed. It's about continuity in platform concerning a key part/function and engrained training protocols. If the reality of the concept escapes you I get it. ETA- I won't discuss this more as I don't intend to derail the OP's thread. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 9:14:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: Fixed it for you. Why alter 30+ rifles and require retraining for 25 guys for a piece of gear that brings nothing to the table for one operator? Not to mention the rifles on road patrol, which are in the hundreds, that all the SWAT guys would potentially have access to either on loan or in an emergency. They add absolutely nothing and make nothing easier. The AR's bolt release is quite fine, ergonomic, and capable as designed. It's about continuity in platform concerning a key part/function and engrained training protocols. If the reality of the concept escapes you I get it. ETA- I won't discuss this more as I don't intend to derail the OP's thread. +100, great post! |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 10:26:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bpm990d]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: Fixed it for you. The concept of uniformity does not escape me. The real question is why did you, a SWAT Team Commander allow one guy on your team do somthing so different that the rest of the team? You claimed that it's "One of the most useless pieces of gear ever designed and sold" and it might be useless for your intended purpose, but you are only looking at it from your perspective. I don't think OP is serving high risk warrants as a member of a team or tracking down dangerous fugitives. |
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Posted: 6/29/2024 10:13:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Here's a partial list of what I've ordered so far:
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Posted: 6/29/2024 10:24:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Here's a partial list of what I've ordered so far:
Mine had the same wait and came sooner. Either way it’s worth the wait. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 12:17:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Follow-up question: Is the 6-24x50 too much scope for an AR and should I be looking at 4-16x44 instead?
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Posted: 6/30/2024 12:47:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Follow-up question: Is the 6-24x50 too much scope for an AR and should I be looking at 4-16x44 instead? I prefer something in the 4-16x50/4.5-14x50 range for 18"-20" rifles. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 1:10:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Follow-up question: Is the 6-24x50 too much scope for an AR and should I be looking at 4-16x44 instead? I think so. It's a .223. I prefer something lower, on the low end. I actually just run a 2.5-10x. You may want more than that, but I think 6-24x Is a bit much for a .223. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 1:16:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SpeyRod]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Follow-up question: Is the 6-24x50 too much scope for an AR and should I be looking at 4-16x44 instead? Depends on the purpose. I posted this on another forum for the same question, I have some higher power scopes from Nightforce and vortex. Because I shoot a lot of precision and a lot of ground squirrels I use mostly the higher end of the scale. What I can say is I rarely, if ever, shoot them on the lower end of the scale. My 7-35 Atacr has never been shot at 7x. Probably the scope that gets used the most is my 5-25 Viper. It gets moved across a few rifles thanks to the LT QD mount. I do have a LPVO for my 3gun rifle. But it only gets shot if I know there will be a long stage. It works but is not ideal for our 550 target. Thankfully it’s a full size ipsc silhouette. I normally run a red dot on all other stages shorter that 200. So, I like the 5-25 for precision. Definitely a great scope when shooting the small and or distant targets I shoot. If you aren’t shooting like me a nice 1-10 lpvo will work great.. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 1:49:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpeyRod: Depends on the purpose. I posted this on another forum for the same question, So, I like the 5-25 for precision. Definitely a great scope when shooting the small and or distant targets I shoot. If you aren’t shooting like me a nice 1-10 lpvo will work great.. Exactly. Shooting at 1moa or smaller targets out past 500yds is easier with more magnification. The added magnification can also help with watching mirage and spotting splash. The minimum I’d run for a dedicated precision AR for use at distance would be 16x, but I would prefer 24+. If I wanted a dedicated precision rig that may be used <10% for sub 100yd work, I’d mount a reddot/holographic type sight to switch to as needed. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 3:46:33 PM EDT
[#30]
I'll go with the 6-24 then. If it's too much I'll move it over to my 6.5 rifle and put the scope on that (Falcon 6-18x44) over to the AR.
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Posted: 7/3/2024 9:34:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: I'll go with the 6-24 then. If it's too much I'll move it over to my 6.5 rifle and put the scope on that (Falcon 6-18x44) over to the AR. If your rifle is as accurate as mine was that scope will be perfect. The more accurate the rifle is the more accuracy I want to squeeze from it. That takes some scope power. I am saving for my next scope, Nx8 4-32, that will jump around on a couple ar’s. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/4/2024 10:20:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Musketjon]
[#32]
Just for the sake of conversation, "Service Rifle" allows a maximum of 4.5x and there are a LOT of high-masters (min 97% of a possible) shooting 4.5x at 600 yards. All I'm saying is, more isn't always better.
Just sayin'...... Jon |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2024 10:44:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: smoothy8500]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Musketjon: more isn't always better. Just sayin'...... And the black at 600yds is slightly over 30" diameter.....Just sayin'  White Oak makes good barrels and that Predator upper should be nice. Been using WOA barrels for a long time now.  |
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Posted: 7/5/2024 7:59:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Musketjon: Just for the sake of conversation, "Service Rifle" allows a maximum of 4.5x and there are a LOT of high-masters (min 97% of a possible) shooting 4.5x at 600 yards. All I'm saying is, more isn't always better. Just sayin'...... Jon You would be correct if you, or them, weren’t my age with my eyes trying to pick a ground squirrels head out in the dry grass at 300 yards. That’s a very different sight picture and personal situation. That’s why I try to qualify how and why I use more power. |
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Posted: 7/5/2024 8:00:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By smoothy8500: And the black at 600yds is slightly over 30" diameter.....Just sayin' White Oak makes good barrels and that Predator upper should be nice. Been using WOA barrels for a long time now. https://i.imgur.com/Uxes1Rgl.jpg So, bigger than a squirrels head… |
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Posted: 7/8/2024 6:53:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Interested to see how you like it after getting it set up and shooting it!
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Follow-up question: Is the 6-24x50 too much scope for an AR and should I be looking at 4-16x44 instead? I think so. I have a 5-25 on my "precision" AR, and a 3-15 or 4-16 would be much more practical - though I need to be able to shoot shorter ranges for hunting; it's not just a target rifle. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2024 7:07:43 PM EDT
[#37]
 Coming right at ya! @rubbercityarmory8936 Ti BCG in the 6 ARC. \u200b#guns #cool #slomo Strike Eagle 3-18 with offset on my 6 ARC. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/12/2024 5:10:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Rock River uses Wilson barrels (the same ones WOA uses) on their A2 and A4 NM rifles. Just sayin'...........
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/12/2024 11:18:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: smoothy8500]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Musketjon: Rock River uses Wilson barrels..... Just sayin'........... Considering that WOA is intermittently "Out of Stock" on their NM barrels, RRA is a good backup source. |
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Posted: 7/14/2024 9:01:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Just waiting on my upper now...
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Posted: 7/15/2024 4:31:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Just waiting on my upper now... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38579/2024-07-14_19-40-24-3266887.jpg Nice. If you get a chance to swap the magpul bipod for a Harris jump on it. I tried 2 and they were retired after the first session. Now only guests I don’t like get to use them. 
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Posted: 7/17/2024 10:55:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpeyRod: Nice. If you get a chance to swap the magpul bipod for a Harris jump on it. I tried 2 and they were retired after the first session. Now only guests I don’t like get to use them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpeyRod: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Just waiting on my upper now... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38579/2024-07-14_19-40-24-3266887.jpg Nice. If you get a chance to swap the magpul bipod for a Harris jump on it. I tried 2 and they were retired after the first session. Now only guests I don’t like get to use them. That's funny: I got rid of my Harris bipod and stuck with the Magpul. Same tight groups, no external springs, and polymer doesn't mind getting beat around as much as metal.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2024 3:20:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Your point would be??? My scope has a 7moa aiming circle. Just use it like an aperture sight and make sure the target is centered in the circle, or aperture. The aiming black at any distance is 6moa.
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Posted: 7/19/2024 8:49:02 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Musketjon: Your point would be??? My scope has a 7moa aiming circle. Just use it like an aperture sight and make sure the target is centered in the circle, or aperture. The aiming black at any distance is 6moa. Maybe a better way of looking at it is…would you feel that a competitor would have an advantage over you if they were allowed 25x to your 4.5x? The governing bodies apparently do, or else there wouldn’t be a magnification limit. |
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Posted: 7/19/2024 9:25:21 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Musketjon: Your point would be??? My scope has a 7moa aiming circle. Just use it like an aperture sight and make sure the target is centered in the circle, or aperture. The aiming black at any distance is 6moa. Are you in the wrong thread? |
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Posted: 7/19/2024 8:49:35 PM EDT
[#46]
I have both a proof stainless 16” .223 barrel and a WOA SPR stainless 16” .223 barrel. Sample size of one each, and all that, but FWIW. Both are in trued and bedded receivers. The WOA shoots the best overall when I find a load it likes, but my proof is close and across a much broader spectrum of ammo. I’ve had a few other WOAs that have performed the same way, absolute lasers but a bit picky in what they’ll be lasers with.
When single fed, rested, and with a rear squeeze bag my WOA will produce 5-shot groups of sub-2/3 MO with 75BTHP, and is currently averaging .97 MOA across multiple 5-shot groups of AAC 75 Black Tip. It’s +/- MOA with several other nice loads. In contrast, my Proof is around MOA with most every non-FMJ AAC load (I’ve been shooting a lot of AAC), but I can’t get it under 3/4 MOA with anything I’ve tried, though it’s close with the AAC TMK and 75 BTHP. They’re both good, I’d easily call the WOA the better value, and unless I find a steal on another proof I’d buy another WOA between the two if I were buying right now. |
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Posted: 7/19/2024 8:58:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpeyRod: You will be happy with a whit oak upper. They are a great value and good shooters. Also consider a Craddock RTR upper. They cut really nice barrels. I’ve got a pair of 300BLK RTR’s and they literally shoot Hornady VMAX into .8 MOA. I never thought I’d own a 10” 300BLK that’d shoot that well. I’ve got a .223 in today I’m going to get up and running and have one of their Grendels in the mail. I have one of his signature series 11.5’s and it’s an absolute laser with 77 TMK but for the price I think the RTRs may end up being the better option for most. |
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Posted: 7/23/2024 3:22:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doty_soty: I’ve got a pair of 300BLK RTR’s and they literally shoot Hornady VMAX into .8 MOA. I never thought I’d own a 10” 300BLK that’d shoot that well. I’ve got a .223 in today I’m going to get up and running and have one of their Grendels in the mail. I have one of his signature series 11.5’s and it’s an absolute laser with 77 TMK but for the price I think the RTRs may end up being the better option for most. I’d love to hear how it shoots. I need to build a new 18 or 20” 223. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 3:31:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpeyRod: I’d love to hear how it shoots. I need to build a new 18 or 20” 223. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpeyRod: Originally Posted By doty_soty: I’ve got a pair of 300BLK RTR’s and they literally shoot Hornady VMAX into .8 MOA. I never thought I’d own a 10” 300BLK that’d shoot that well. I’ve got a .223 in today I’m going to get up and running and have one of their Grendels in the mail. I have one of his signature series 11.5’s and it’s an absolute laser with 77 TMK but for the price I think the RTRs may end up being the better option for most. I’d love to hear how it shoots. I need to build a new 18 or 20” 223. Took it out a few times since that post. I try not to judge a button rifle barrel too much before it’s hit 100 or 200 rounds. Even so it’s already shooting a few AAC loads at or a hair under MOA. I’d bet that with premium FFMM and a fully broken in barrel it will end up shooting closer to 3/4. For the price I’m very happy. Actually I say for the price, but it is already outshooting a Proof barrel in a few loads. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 3:44:02 PM EDT
[#50]
My WOA 18" rifle gas barrel will shoot 3/4 MOA with black hills reloads. thats good enough for me.
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