Posted: 1/12/2026 12:57:22 PM EDT
|
Well, that title sure turned into a lot of "p"'s I'm stuck in anaysis paralysis and could use some back and forth to bounce ideas off. I have a menagerie of rifles that are getting somewhat dated, and I want to get at least one precision rifle setup if the iranians invade tomorrow(i don't think this will happen, but for the sake of the thought experiment) what should I focus on? What long range precision fighting rifle makes the most sense today? I also wouldn't mind having a rifle capable of getting started in PRS if I end up finding the time to get to one. Is there any real reason to go with a bolt gun over a semi auto in this day and age? At this point, cost and reliability seem pretty even for most comparable guns. Just looking at Daniel defense for example, their AR10 and bolt action rifles are very similar msrp. I have a 308 AR. At the time I bought it, 6.5 was just gaining popularity, but wasn't as available as it is now. It seems to me 6.5CM has reached a critical mass where I am debating getting a new rifle although. Tl;dr: what is the perfect precision rifle for preparedness? Is it a 6.5CM AR-10 with an 18" barrel? |
|
I may get flamed for this but at practical ranges for a gas gun and most shooters 308 is likely the answer for your questiob.. The 6.5 cr is also good but for it's advantages on range etc 308/7.62x51 is still good The creedmore recoils a bit less and holds up longer @ range but realisticly can you use that advantage of the cartridge in your area of ops. Hell for the most part a well laid out 5.56/223 would work too @ least in my area. The best way to survive a gunfight is not get into one!! |
| For prepared citizen any SPR would be better than nothing. AR10/15 would be great. AR10 in .308/7.62x52 would be my choice. A 18/20” AR15 with 77 gr can lay down hate pretty well. |
I survived the cockpocalypse of 11/21/2012.
Bacon grease, the Muslim approved .mil lubricant.
Bacon grease, the Muslim approved .mil lubricant.
|
I think your geography, topography, tactics and AO determine what may work ‘best’. No problem with 6.5CM, but do you really need an 800-1k yard capable gun? If not, I’d just shoot 75-77gr 5.56/.223, pretty solid out to 400-500 yards. If you want .308/7.62x51, then get one. I have two bolt guns in 6.5CCM, one lightweight for field movements and a heavy one for stationary positions. I own no AR-10’s but if I did, I’d likely get one in 6.5CM since I already stock it. |
Joined:
Sep 2022
Posts:
2244
EE: 0% (0)
USA
|
Originally Posted By voyager3: Prepared for what? In my post I reference the U.S. being invaded for the purpose of a thought experiment. Use whatever country you prefer, and I don't believe it changes the rifle. I really like the suggestions so far. The 5.56 spr is definitely a good suggestion and likely I should just focus in on that for a while. I do have a 16" spr-ish rifle that could use a little more attention and range time. |
| Do you need one? Nope. Even in the wildest scenario you can dream up, your .308 or even 5.56 would likely be more than enough. But this is America, so you can have one if you want one. If you’re building specifically for precision, a bolt gun is the right choice. Most PRS rifles are in some flavor of 6 (6mm, .25, 6.5) and are heavy bolt actions. If you don’t have a bolt gun already, they’re a lot of fun. But let’s not pretend this is something that you need for the apocalypse. |
Joined:
Sep 2022
Posts:
2247
EE: 0% (0)
USA
|
Originally Posted By SteveJobs: In my post I reference the U.S. being invaded for the purpose of a thought experiment. Use whatever country you prefer, and I don't believe it changes the rifle. I really like the suggestions so far. The 5.56 spr is definitely a good suggestion and likely I should just focus in on that for a while. I do have a 16" spr-ish rifle that could use a little more attention and range time. Then the answer is whatever you get issued when you join the military. Could be a shovel. |
|
Whatever you choose is going to have compromises. Considerations I would have would be accuracy, penetration, ammo availability, recoil, ease of reloading, how far will it shoot and still have power, fast engagement of multiple targets vs precision engagement of distant targets, cost of build, availability of spare/replacement parts, magazine availability and cost. I would consider all the above then make my choice. Engaging a single target at 850 yards/meters is a vastly different problem than engaging six targets inside 150 yards./meters that are moving fast toward your position. |
|
Originally Posted By MSC182: An SPR for a theoretical hostile invasion and a precision rifle properly suited for PRS are two vastly different firearms. Does no one in this section like to have fun? Can I not nerd out on setting up a specific rifle? Thats why the prs was barely mentioned. Primary focus is shooting commies. If I set up a rifle with the primary purpose of homeland defense at 600+ yards, would it be unusable in prs? |
|
Originally Posted By SteveJobs: Does no one in this section like to have fun? Can I not nerd out on setting up a specific rifle? Thats why the prs was barely mentioned. Primary focus is shooting commies. If I set up a rifle with the primary purpose of homeland defense at 600+ yards, would it be unusable in prs? OP, I built a Mk12, as a way to give my self an intermediate range gun and learn to shoot at distance. I shot the Geissele gas gun series and some of the IWI this past year. I learned a lot about equipment selection, and my own capabilities. I hadn't had to make a wind call in a long time, and never used an optic in MRAD. In my opinion, if you want to set up something precision, I'd get a Mk12 upper from PRI or BCM, spec your own lower and a good optic from 10-25X, and then find some ammo that the combo likes. I shoot Mk262, but my gun also loves IMI Razorcore. It's not the lightest rifle, and uses tech from the early 2000's, but will serve you well. Next, load up on that ammo, find a place that you can shoot to 700, and start getting some dope on the gun. Become familiar with making wind calls without a Kestrel, and learn to use a ballistic calculator app. Then, go compete with it. You'll learn a ton and have a lot of fun. |
|
A 5.56 gun set up properly is better for 0-600. A 6mm ARC gets you some more range without the weight and recoil penalty. I personally don't see much of an advantage of a large frame gas gun. I own and shoot 5.56, 6 ARC, 308 AR10, and have used 6.5c AR10. I'll be selling my 308 soonish. Something to think about, if you're shooting at a moving target that can shoot back, rapid follow up shots are extremely valuable. |
|
Originally Posted By SteveJobs: Does no one in this section like to have fun? Can I not nerd out on setting up a specific rifle? Thats why the prs was barely mentioned. Primary focus is shooting commies. If I set up a rifle with the primary purpose of homeland defense at 600+ yards, would it be unusable in prs? Unusable, no. But unless you’re shooting a DMR style match it will be far from ideal. If you’re just looking to have fun and improve your skills though, by all means have at it. |
|
Originally Posted By SteveJobs: Well, that title sure turned into a lot of "p"'s I'm stuck in anaysis paralysis and could use some back and forth to bounce ideas off. I have a menagerie of rifles that are getting somewhat dated, and I want to get at least one precision rifle setup if the iranians invade tomorrow(i don't think this will happen, but for the sake of the thought experiment) what should I focus on? What long range precision fighting rifle makes the most sense today? I also wouldn't mind having a rifle capable of getting started in PRS if I end up finding the time to get to one. Is there any real reason to go with a bolt gun over a semi auto in this day and age? At this point, cost and reliability seem pretty even for most comparable guns. Just looking at Daniel defense for example, their AR10 and bolt action rifles are very similar msrp. I have a 308 AR. At the time I bought it, 6.5 was just gaining popularity, but wasn't as available as it is now. It seems to me 6.5CM has reached a critical mass where I am debating getting a new rifle although. Tl;dr: what is the perfect precision rifle for preparedness? Is it a 6.5CM AR-10 with an 18" barrel? You do understand all you need is a 6.5cm barrel to convert your 308 to 6.5cm...Why buy another complete rifle instead of a quality barrel and trigger, likely be far cheaper and far better shooting..hell worse case buy/build a separate upper so its a simple swap, although a barrel swap is pretty simple anyway... |
|
I would be far more concerned with optics selection if you are serious about the whole prepared citizen thing. I've been seriously night hunting last few years. Thermal and or NV would be at the top of the list. It's flipping awesome owning the night.......... I like shooting heavy bolt guns i can't imagine trying to actually "fight" with one at 56. |
|
If I'm not shooting bug hole-sized groups, I don't see much benefit to a bolt action. Having follow-up shots quickly available is nice, as is not having to break position for those follow-ups. Some will say semi-autos are harder shoot, but I haven't noticed that, nor has anyone I've helped coach. I ditched large-frame ARs a couple years ago. My all-round precision rifle is a Robinson XCR-M 6.5 CM with an 18.6" barrel, Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x, Magpul bipod, and a Thunderbeast Ultra 9 can. I wish I would have went with a 16" barrel just to make it a little more compact, but I'll get that eventually as I want a spare just because. 6.5 performs better out of shorter barrels than .308. 16" will still have the bullet supersonic out past 1300m at the elevations I shoot, which is plenty far for me. As much as I like .308/7.62 NATO, it doesn't do much better than 6.5 CM. |
"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
|
I’ll play. Assuming I have a secret stash of ammo that I can tap into, I’m carrying a supressed 6Arc sbr. I want to be able to travel without looking conspicuous and be able to easily shoot indoors or to 1,000. No secret stash? A supressed 233 sbr. I can pick up ammo on the battle ground and still fight 0-600 yds. Ymmv. |
|
OP: Where are you located? 6.5CM makes good sense out my way- plenty of long distance opportunities and it works well on big game. If you're in close forest where your maximum distance might be 200 yards, something smaller might be more practical. |
"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
|
My feedback is that bolt guns are much better for some things especially when you want energy on target and move up to the 300 wm / 300nm / 338 lm cartridges. However, it takes a serious amount of effort in time and money to achieve any sort of effective level of competence. Gas guns are more forgiving because you can spray and pray. But they’re harder to shoot precisely. There’s a reason gas guns are in a separate division in PRS. |
|
Originally Posted By taliv: My feedback is that bolt guns are much better for some things especially when you want energy on target and move up to the 300 wm / 300nm / 338 lm cartridges. However, it takes a serious amount of effort in time and money to achieve any sort of effective level of competence. Gas guns are more forgiving because you can spray and pray. But they’re harder to shoot precisely. There’s a reason gas guns are in a separate division in PRS. It seems like everthing is moving to either use an SPR, or a 338, and I don't think I hate that idea. I'll focus in on the SPR for a while. Is there a consensus on SPR scopes? Some short research doesn't make it seem like there is much agreement. I currently have a vortex pst gen2 3-15 that I'll swap onto an spr-ish rifle I have and see where that goes. I was reading a comment and having lockable turrets would be nice for a rifle thats going to get bumped around so much. |
|
I have two SPRs and they’ve become my goto ARs. One has a NF 1-8 ATACR. The other has a NF 4-16 ATACR and offset RMR. 5 yr ago I posted a bunch of comparison thru scope pics and did some work with a shot timer. IMHO both are great and mostly equal if you’re in an area where targets are easy to see. When you get into deep woods with a cluttered FOV the 2-3x range starts to really get faster and more effective than 1x or 4x. But when you start stretching it out, that 16x upper end is way better for 400-500+ yards. I prob would have been better off with like a 2-12x or a 3-18x https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lpvo-vs-high-mag-scope-and-offset-red-dot.895802/#post-12073706 |
|
Originally Posted By SteveJobs: It seems like everthing is moving to either use an SPR, or a 338, and I don't think I hate that idea. I'll focus in on the SPR for a while. Is there a consensus on SPR scopes? Some short research doesn't make it seem like there is much agreement. I currently have a vortex pst gen2 3-15 that I'll swap onto an spr-ish rifle I have and see where that goes. I was reading a comment and having lockable turrets would be nice for a rifle thats going to get bumped around so much. Make sure you look the vortex and you are happy with the cross hair at the lower settings. I can barely see mine. But I’m also old. |
|
Bolt guns are a lot quieter. A couple guys here have what I think may be the peak bolt guns, the Scalpel. They both use Thunder Beast suppressors. I was lucky enough to shoot one in 6.5 C but only at 100 yds. Still fun as I could play connect the dots on a big steel plate. The really cool part was how much louder my old 24” .22 was in comparison. I think his actual long range rifle was another Scalpel in 6 mm PRC. Very heavy and pricey but that’s the best, as far as I’m aware. I was thinking about a Ruger or Savage in 6.5 for myself but the guy with the Scalpel offered to help me decide on some parts for a chassis built gun as deals present themselves. It won’t be just the Iranians. The Russians and Chinese will be fighting with them. It might be easier to get Israel stop killing people. |
|
Originally Posted By Karankawa: … may be the peak bolt guns, the Scalpel. Eh if you’re talking about surgeon, they were the leader 20 yrs ago. They were bought by strategic arms corp and mfg was combined with McMillan rifles. They bought several other brands: armalite, AAC and other formerly famous names that haven’t done anything interesting in more than a decade. Impact actions are the new surgeon. |
|
It’s probably an unlikely scenario that you’ll be fighting commies on our soil due our geographical location… but in this scenario, a good 5.56/6arc would be my go to for 10-700yds. A 20” 6.5creed gasser is a great overwatch system, but it’s not ideal for carrying around and being a “do all” system. If you’re looking at truly longer ranges, the 6.5creed would be great. If you’re really wanting precision, a bolt gun would be my choice for longer engagements. Once you get good with them, it’s not too hard to get off 5-6rds on target in 10ish seconds. Magnums would add a little to that time. Not the same splits as a gasser, but still very effective. Optics wise, the Razor Gen 3 4-24 would be a good option for mid to longer engagements. The newly released NF NX6 may be interesting as well, but I’d wait for some reviews to come out. |
|
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Once you get good with them, it’s not too hard to get off 5-6rds on target in 10ish seconds. Magnums would add a little to that time. Not the same splits as a gasser, but still very effective. yep. for comparison, shooting 2 moa targets at about 400 yards, my split times with SPR 223 are about 1 second vs 2 seconds for bolt gun in 6.5x47. however, transition times can sometimes favor the bolt gun, as the weight settles it down faster and keeps the bipod from hopping when you pan, etc. also, even shooting the same target over and over, if your SPR is super light weight, it may add a bit of time but... i'm very comfortable shooting hostage targets with partially exposed bad guy head behind no shoot, with the bolt gun while i have very little confidence with the gasser in that shot. basically, the smaller the target gets, or the more important that you get a hit and not hit anything else, the needle moves very quickly over to the bolt gun side |
|
Originally Posted By SpeyRod: Make sure you look the vortex and you are happy with the cross hair at the lower settings. I can barely see mine. But I’m also old. Yeah, the pst leaves a lot to be desired on the low end of magnification. I might wait and see how nightforces nx6 turns out. The 2-12 might be a winner. But, i already have the pst, so I'll slap it together for now and see how it goes. I plan on doing a top dot as well to mitigate that some. |
|
Originally Posted By SteveJobs: Yeah, the pst leaves a lot to be desired on the low end of magnification. I might wait and see how nightforces nx6 turns out. The 2-12 might be a winner. But, i already have the pst, so I'll slap it together for now and see how it goes. I plan on doing a top dot as well to mitigate that some. With the Illum on the pst is ok in low light at low power but not mid day. I really want to check out the new NX6. I think it is a lot of scope for the money. |
|
Originally Posted By taliv: Eh if you’re talking about surgeon, they were the leader 20 yrs ago. They were bought by strategic arms corp and mfg was combined with McMillan rifles. They bought several other brands: armalite, AAC and other formerly famous names that haven’t done anything interesting in more than a decade. Impact actions are the new surgeon. That’s exactly what the owner of the scalpel suggested I should build. |
|
Originally Posted By majg1234: I may get flamed for this but at practical ranges for a gas gun and most shooters 308 is likely the answer for your questiob.. The 6.5 cr is also good but for it's advantages on range etc 308/7.62x51 is still good The creedmore recoils a bit less and holds up longer @ range but realisticly can you use that advantage of the cartridge in your area of ops. Hell for the most part a well laid out 5.56/223 would work too @ least in my area. The best way to survive a gunfight is not get into one!! THIS, ive got a .30-06 and a 6.5cm. Try finding an easily accessible range that goes to 500 yards in most AO's and you are in for a treat... OR to imagine your Iranian invasion scenario, where are you going to SEE an "Iranian invader" at 500 yards?( which is within 5.56 range with optic and quality ammo/barrel/shooter combo). Try finding a deer at 200 yards, anywhere, lol now find one at 500 yards. Id bet 30 % of deer taken east of the Mississippi are with 30-30 or similar and that maxes out at 150 yards. I don't think "range" is the limiting factor on the scenario you describe, I'd think that shooter limitations(can you get into a safe position, and out of said position ? can you not freeze your butt off doing it? can you hike the 10-20miles to get there humping your own gear?, does there terrain in your AO even HAVE locations with 200+ yard Lines of Sight? If I were shooting at "Iranian invaders", who as a conventional military force have mortars, artillery, helos and such I'd want to be ANYWHERE that WASN'T where they thought I was, IE if I thought "that hill top has a great spot to shoot from, ive got 600 yard line of sight into their FOB....." would also mean (in Iranian) "that hill top 600 yards away is a great place to watch, and we should pre zero mortars on it so we can easily/quickly rain 82Mm mortras down on it while we wait for 105'mm to arrive, and the gun ship,,should we take sniper fire from it..." (im NOT any sort of secret squirrel, I did to an enlistment as a 67T though so I'm "kinda a bad ass"  (for those who get the joke. lol))IIRC a "sniper" is a significant asset, equal to a company in (been 20+ years i might be wrong) in engagement power so "I want artillery on X position, for a sniper" means a company's worth of shells gets dropped on X position, that is a LOT of hate. Artillery of any sort(mortars, MLRS, 155, 105, heck even belt fed 40mm), is NOT anywhere you want to be near. Heck. 105's have a "render dead or dying range " on their explosion of something like 30 yards, and a wound range of like 50 yards(not 100 guaranteed, more like 25% of shot inside 50 yards will wound/wound enough so 25% of the a soldier is combat ineffective, and then out to like 100 that 25% drops down(frag is basically bullets flying randomly). Now take that from ONE shell to dozens, or hundreds, cuz as a sniper you "count" as a company (160 ish infantry dudes). It aint like they are shelling a 10x10 yard box , they will hit a 500-500 yard box with air bursts, and maybe a gunship with thermals to check, afterwards, and maybe a drone with thermals to make sure for a couple hours . |
|
In fairness to the scenario and distances mentioned above, almost everyone lives in an area with 500+ yard lines of sight. It’s just against the law to target shoot in town so it gets over looked. Even in my county which is over 50% national forest, and a small town of about 5k people, from almost any yard in town, you can see several hundred yards down the street, prob in two or more directions. And a lot further along the interstate that runs through the middle. I’d be willing to bet that just about all of the protests since the summer of love have been visible from 500+ yards away. |
|
Don't overthink it. Many wonder about their choice because they've never spent much time shooting past 100 yards. 500 yards/Meters is not difficult given good ammo, optics, and training. Simple rifle choice: 16-inch free-floated Armalite .308 AR-10 carbine with a 2.5-8 scope. You could substitute a 5.56 or similar caliber. Attached File Mid-length 5.56 carbine with ACOG shooting 77s: Attached File Informal rapid-fire plinking, 300 yards -- no shots off-steel: Attached File |
|
I could foresee three scenarios for civilian precision rifles: 1.) an AR10 with a thermal for shooting in an active invasion where soldiers are coming into your neighborhood and you are with other soldiers/militia members/the like. 2.) a super long range rifle capable of being anti personal and anti (light material) from like 1500yards out. 3.) a few cheap ass hunting rifles that you are gonna pop someone from 300 yards out, then throw in a stream/well/sewer drain and walk off unarmed. |
|
I’m not mil so feel free to ignore me but the scenario that comes to mind for me is like these pics but urban, where some momo way down the street is hiding behind cover and exposing a few inches of his dome from a few hundred yards away. He’s observing you, directing some sort of offense and you’d really like him to stop. Just my humble opinion but he’s definitely not safe if we have a precision bolt gun. His odds are a lot better if we just have gas guns.   Both at 415 yards. 6” circle behind 6” head and 4” head behind 3” head… about 2” vertical exposed. |
Joined:
Sep 2024
Posts:
407
EE: 100% (1)
TX, USA
|
Originally Posted By Sinister: Don't overthink it. Many wonder about their choice because they've never spent much time shooting past 100 yards. 500 yards/Meters is not difficult given good ammo, optics, and training. Simple rifle choice: 16-inch free-floated Armalite .308 AR-10 carbine with a 2.5-8 scope. You could substitute a 5.56 or similar caliber. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/16_inch_AR-10_jpg-3695829.JPG Mid-length 5.56 carbine with ACOG shooting 77s: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/Vdesert_jpg-3695833.JPG Informal rapid-fire plinking, 300 yards -- no shots off-steel: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/E-type_targets_and_stands_jpg-3695838.JPG Yeah it’s not hard because you’re effectively shooting a car door. Get down to a 1 MOA target, and see how hard it is. People don’t just stand still broadside out in the open when bullets start flying, they generally take cover and return fire while exposing as little of them as possible. |
Joined:
Sep 2024
Posts:
408
EE: 100% (1)
TX, USA
| How far of a range do you have access to? My range goes to 2500 yards, so I have a 300NM for my SHTF overwatch rifle. I also shoot PRS regularly, heading down to another 2 day match next weekend. Shooting over I’d say 500 is a skill that will take time to develop, both in reading wind, reading impacts, stability, load data, etc. Gas guns and .223/308 are in their own divisions within PRS, because they’re at a significant disadvantage. If you’re doing what you shoot when you fire the shot, which is watching impact to make a correction, then determining your correction for the next shot while running your bolt, a gas gun really isn’t that much faster. That’s the only advantage they have, faster follow up shots at the expense of accuracy. |
|
I shoot competitively, have been professionally trained behind long guns and carbines, blah, blah, blah. MY favorite all around, do all Rocky Mountain gun is my 16" 308 AR with a Hux Flow, a Steiner T6Xi 2.5-15x50, and an RMR. It goes with me everywhere around here, will handle anything including Grizzlies, and I shoot it regularly out to 800 yards. My favorite night gun (aside from my 10.5" carbine set up) is a toss up between my 20" 6.5 gasser, or 16" 22 Arc both set up with thermal, lasers, etc. With my Evolver 1280, I can dominate anything within 1k yards at night, and the Arc is a deadly predator gun out to 500 yards or so. I shoot PRS. I would hate to do anything with serious movement with my PRS rifles. I have tactical bolt guns for field matches because carrying around a 20 lb 6 GT gets old after a few miles. From a static position, a mid pack PRS guy will run all over anybody with any gas gun ever made at medium to long range. It's not even funny how many times that has been demonstrated, and it's shocking how much faster they are with their bolt guns engaging multiple targets at distance compared to the guy shooting a gasser. However, at close distance, the gas gun wins with volume of fire. Everything is a compromise. You will get embarrassingly dominated by bolt guns at a PRS match with a gasser, and just be burning money if you show up with one at an ELR match. Bolt guns will always be more precise than gas guns by design. A gasser will always be superior in scenarios where volume of fire matters. If I had to leave the house right now, we would have our 16" 308s, and our SBRs for Night Vision things rifle wise. Our Thermals have Zeroing Profiles for the 308s, as well. |
A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
|
Originally Posted By gwood93: Yeah it’s not hard because you’re effectively shooting a car door. Get down to a 1 MOA target, and see how hard it is. People don’t just stand still broadside out in the open when bullets start flying, they generally take cover and return fire while exposing as little of them as possible. The internet is such a weird place. 
|
|
Originally Posted By gwood93: Yeah it's not hard because you're effectively shooting a car door. Get down to a 1 MOA target, and see how hard it is. People don't just stand still broadside out in the open when bullets start flying, they generally take cover and return fire while exposing as little of them as possible. |
A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
Joined:
Sep 2024
Posts:
410
EE: 100% (1)
TX, USA
|
I think we’re prob all in agreement. Originally Posted By gwood93: Dude is talking about how shooting 500 yards is so easy, then posts a 2 foot group at 300 yards. You’re right, it is weird. If he’s sub second splits maybe pushing half second splits, keeping all his rounds on steel is pretty dang good and definitely a useful skill. Prob wouldn’t change too much at 500. That doesn’t mean your point about people taking cover isn’t valid. I guess it just depends on the scenario we’re contemplating with a bolt gun, I can get down to just under 2 second splits. I just can’t move the bolt any faster. Making the target bigger doesn’t help. But I can still get hits at that speed making the target smaller down to 2 MOA and usually 1.5 MOA. When the target gets sub MOA I have to slow down. With a gas gun, you can keep speeding up. And making the target bigger lets me go faster. At some point no matter how slow I go, how much time I take, I can’t reliably keep sub moa groups though. |
|
I prefer 6.5 Grendel in the 20" AR15 platform. Only problem would be ammo availability. Other than that a 16" AR15 slinging 77 grain SMK's. Don't underestimate the 77 SMK's at distance. They will do fine at 600 yards just like we shoot in Highpower matches. |
N.R.A. High Power Master Class Shooter(Iron Sights)
Appleseed Distinguished Rifleman
Appleseed Distinguished Rifleman
Joined:
Sep 2024
Posts:
414
EE: 100% (1)
TX, USA
|
Originally Posted By taliv: I think we’re prob all in agreement. If he’s sub second splits maybe pushing half second splits, keeping all his rounds on steel is pretty dang good and definitely a useful skill. Prob wouldn’t change too much at 500. That doesn’t mean your point about people taking cover isn’t valid. I guess it just depends on the scenario we’re contemplating with a bolt gun, I can get down to just under 2 second splits. I just can’t move the bolt any faster. Making the target bigger doesn’t help. But I can still get hits at that speed making the target smaller down to 2 MOA and usually 1.5 MOA. When the target gets sub MOA I have to slow down. With a gas gun, you can keep speeding up. And making the target bigger lets me go faster. At some point no matter how slow I go, how much time I take, I can’t reliably keep sub moa groups though. So to run the bolt faster is just reaction time and muscle memory. That’s how guys are getting another round in the air before the first one hits. Ben Gossett has a great video on YouTube of him running a PRS barricade at K&M that demonstrates just how fast aimed fire can be. |
|
Originally Posted By JoeSP1: OP, I built a Mk12, as a way to give my self an intermediate range gun and learn to shoot at distance. I shot the Geissele gas gun series and some of the IWI this past year. I learned a lot about equipment selection, and my own capabilities. I hadn't had to make a wind call in a long time, and never used an optic in MRAD. In my opinion, if you want to set up something precision, I'd get a Mk12 upper from PRI or BCM, spec your own lower and a good optic from 10-25X, and then find some ammo that the combo likes. I shoot Mk262, but my gun also loves IMI Razorcore. It's not the lightest rifle, and uses tech from the early 2000's, but will serve you well. Next, load up on that ammo, find a place that you can shoot to 700, and start getting some dope on the gun. Become familiar with making wind calls without a Kestrel, and learn to use a ballistic calculator app. Then, go compete with it. You'll learn a ton and have a lot of fun. I second all of this. |
Join the Community
Your next conversation starts here.
Create your free account to join discussions, share your experience, save topics, and connect with the AR15.COM community.
- Join discussions
- Follow topics and replies
- Connect with fellow enthusiasts
Already a member? Sign in
Stay informed by subscribing to our Newsletter