Posted: 7/28/2025 6:38:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel][Edited]
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Ok folks it looks like I made a tactical error buying brass several years ago that I just started loading. I bought small rifle primer .260 rem brass made by Peterson. I reduced my regular load that I used with RP large primer brass by two grains. I was doing some research so I wasn’t totally surprised to get a pierced primer. I used a Rem 7.5. My stocks were the Remington, Wolf Kvb223M and CCI 41. Rifle is a FN SPR actioned custom build. The bolt face is not bushed. I certainly wish I bought the LRP brass. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Oh and I found a few more remnant options…..105 CcI 450 magnums and few CCI400s. I also found Winchester small rifle but knew they can be soft since they dropped the plating on the cup. The Winchesters are not my first option. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By FlatlandBusa: CCI BR4 I have a case of   You know what, I am going to check my full cases again, maybe, just maybe one is BR4s. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Just get a magnum primer. Not sure some people are making general statements about CCI primers as they have quite a few lines of them. The CCI #400 SR are pretty thin and I've had a couple of them get pierced and lots of them deform at higher loads. The CCI #450 magnum SR primers and the CCI BR4 benchrest primers, on the other hand have been awesome. |
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Thanks for the thoughts. Since I have a lot of CCI 41s I will try them. I have some 450s as well but literally a pack plus a few. Seems like the safest bet. I’ll actually try them both of course! Thank you council of the wise! |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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I assume you have ruled out your firing pin as a contributor to the issue. As others have noted, CCI primers, particularly their magnum small rifle primers, have a robust cup, so they should be helpful. On the other hand, aren’t their BR primers supposed to have “soft” cups for higher sensitivity? Even if they aren’t noticeably on the soft side, I’d experiment with the less expensive CCI 400s and 450s. By the way, I just did a quick search on CCI primers to verify my numbers, and got two hits for questionable sites: cciprimerstore dot com, and cci-ammunition dot com. I haven’t gone to either site, but these names are sure suspicious. |
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Oh it’s most definitely a sloppy factory firing pin hole in the breachface. FN SPR I guess are right up there with M700’s. I ignorantly bought the small rifle primer cases not knowing that they can be more prone to problems with puncturing. I never ever had a pierced primer in this gun with stiffer loads in LR primed brass. My speed with a 139 Lapua match today was 2710-2744 fps. I shot off what remained of that load. 3 pierced out of the box of fifty (both outings combined) Primer shoulders are still round and normal there is a ring around the primer indentation where it flows in to the breachface a bit. Headspace was quite conservative, my gun is set up at minimum dimensions and the new Peterson brass out of the box are long for factory cartridge dimensions. My headspace was 0.002-3” using these out of the box. I did not size these I only ran a Sinclair expander in all of them as I had a couple dented necks (fantastic lack of packing on the shipment and the nice box lid was busted upon arrival) I have not measured firing pin protrusion, I suppose I should at this point. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Thanks I have some 450s to try next. I cleaned, annealed and sized these last night. Ran out of steam before going further. This time I will only do 20 cases at a time!  I also cleaned the bolt interior. I lightly dressed the fp tip. It looked like a round nose with a slight semi wadcutter edge (factory) around the diameter. I dressed down that slight lip edge. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Thank you all for your time and thoughts. I got to the range today to test the CCI 450 primer load with 41.0H4350, Peterson case and the 139 Lapua. 15 rounds, #5 was the sole to fail. That’s enough of that. Unless I bush the bolt face and go to a thinner firing pin I don’t see this working. I likely won’t do that though. It’s a pity too as the load was otherwise spectacular. SD was in the 2’s for the first group even with the pierced primer and all 15 shots had SD of 6.9 and and an extreme spread of 23.3. In a further attempt to manage pressure I seated deeper, matching my old loads from Black Hills factory with the 139 Lapua that always shot well despite the jump. But the factories know that that jump is pretty forgiving across the spectrum of factory rifles. It may not be the best but it’s a solid place to be. For now I’ll go back to the box of Lapua .308 Win cases I converted a long time ago that had been set aside. I still have most of a case of the old Black Hills factory ammo with the marginal RP cases. When I need more brass I will buy the large primer version of Lapua or Peterson. Live and learn! Only way to know anything for certain is to try it. I tried it. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Well as a consolation the nice folks at Creedmoor sports happened to have Peterson .260 Rem large rifle primer brass on sale, $20 off regular price on a box of 50. I bought a bought a couple boxes. Yesterday I also wet tumbled my converted from Lapua .308 brass and annealed it. It’d been sitting on the shelf a long time. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Unless I bush the bolt face and go to a thinner firing pin I don’t see this working. I likely won’t do that though. Just curious why not? There's a few reputable shops that do it. I sent my Rem 700 bolt to Gre-Tan a few years ago to get bushed. Was fairly inexpensive and was done quickly. LRI is another shop with quick turnaround. Sure, there's a few downside; Potential headspace increase by .001" due to cleaning up the boltface. If you break the firing pin you need a special order replacement. Or opt to spend $30 upfront ordering a second one while having bolt bushed. |
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I guess I am just not to ready to probably due to the inconvenience at the moment. Maybe I should reconsider having it done over the winter. I guess I should reconsider it after how I see if the new large primer brass works out for me. It just seems like a lot of effort for use of small rifle primer brass that may not give any real benefit beyond the hypothetical longer primer pocket life. I actually am more happy with the lower node load of the 41 ish grains of H4350 versus where I found a higher node of 43.1 grains. The (some) reloading manuals say that charge is ok but it was tough on my RP brass for sure, not that RP is the benchmark of high quality. The older I get I find I am happier with less than max charges. It’s easier on my old body as well as my gun and components. It is a thought though. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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and adding a thou of headspace is A ok by me. My gun is right at the minimum headspace and my Redding bushing dies are on the cusp of doing an adequate bump if I let the brass get a bit hardened and springy. That’s another upside to getting it done!  I will say that with the total of four pierced primers the face of my bolt is still perfect. I think they have pretty good surface hardness there, it may be a shame to cut in to it. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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I wish the CCI 41 would work. CCI 450, the small rifle magnum primer pierced on me. It’s the exact same primer as the CCI 41 but the 41 has shorter anvils to desensitize them from the free floating firing pin love taps when the bolt closes. I almost used the 41 instead but obviously did not. I wish either would work but we will just go back to large primers for now. I wish I took a pictures of the Rem 7.5 primers, they had a significant extrusion into the hole in the breach face. While the CCI 450s weren’t as extruded, they still clearly showed a ring of the firing pin hole in the breachface. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Oh it’s most definitely a sloppy factory firing pin hole in the breachface. FN SPR I guess are right up there with M700’s. SNIP... I ignorantly bought the small rifle primer cases not knowing that they can be more prone to problems with puncturing. I have not measured firing pin protrusion, I suppose I should at this point. I just recently started getting my crap together for 7.62 x 39 reloading and have no brass yet. That brass can be had in both small or large primer flavors depending on mfg of said brass. Is the larger primer stuff really harder to pierce? Cause if so, I is going to opt for the Starline brass as the kind they make is larger primer stuff. I am well aware of the different sensitivity levels with different brand primers (federals being softer and CCI being harder sort of stuff) but had not heard before that the larger primers were harder than the smaller... Not sure how easy it is to measure the FP protrusion on your particular firearm but I would definitely check that first and make sure it is where you want it. That measurement on AR type firing pins / bolts is ungodly easy (and inexpensive tool wise) to measure from either end. This end with a set of VERY inexpensive feeler gauges -  Or at this end of the bolt with an also inexpensive depth gauge.  I did have to spend a few minutes shrinking the one end of the one shaft so it would fit inside and be able to measure the depth on small primer brass but it was a good few minutes spent to be able to measure that depth too.  |
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Converting .308 to .260 will create thick neck walls that may require turning to achieve enough clearance to release the bullet. This will definitely spike pressure if not addressed. Have you measured your jump to rifling to ensure that the bullet isn't jamming the lands when you close the bolt? That will spike pressure as well. Posting velocities in the low to mid 2700's doesn't tell me anything without knowing the barrel length. If you are confident that the bullet isn't touching the rifling, then lowering your powder charge is your only other option. Safe loads don't pierce or pop primers. Small primers are supposed to withstand higher pressures because there is more brass surrounding the primer hole. I suggest removing the firing pin and inspecting the tip under bright light and a magnifying glass to see if it was damaged from an earlier piercing. The tip, once damaged, usually continues to pirce. |
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Hodgdon lists 2677 fps as maximum velocity with 140 grain bullet using h4350 from a 24" barrel. Hodgdon data is almost always the hottest data I can find. If you have a 24" barrel that suggests you need to reduce your load one full grain (1.0) in order to match their maximum velocity. If your barrel is shorter than 24", even more reductions are in order. For whatever reason, your powder, primer, case combination in your rifle is producing higher pressures. |
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Interesting at the disparity. Other than the caliber and powder there are other variables. I looked up that data. Their max load is a 140 Nosler BT, Rem case Rem 9.5 primer and 42 grains of H4350 for that velocity of 2677. I am a full grain lower than theirs but my barrel (24”) is a custom Rock Creek with a chamber cut to minimum dimensions. The guys that don’t mind killing their brass are shooting up to 43 grains usually with the 142 SMK. I tried that decades ago and it wasn’t worth it for me. I try to take care of my gear and not overload it. Going back to large primers and I have no more issues. I am chalking this up to loose fit of the firing pin. It seems to be a common denominator when using the the small primered brass according to my searching online. The fix is to bush the bolt face or not use the small primer brass. Oddly one of my other reloading projects was for my .44-40. I had a primer pierce there on a cast lead bullet starting load charge. That was an old CCI 300 probably 80’s production in the buff colored packages with the primers sideways in a tray with slots not individual holes. I was going to look at other primer options but haven’t had one in since for about 300 reloads. Just hit the odds unlike the power ball numbers! |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Sloppy Firing pin to hole fit will absolutely ruin your day with SRP brass, learned that lesson the hard way in a 260AI I had built on a savage 12 LRP action i had. I was fortunate enough to have a local gun smith buddy who bushed the firing pin for me same day i dropped it off. SRP brass is 100% worth it, just bite the bullet and send your bolt off. |
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Hodgdon lists 2677 fps as maximum velocity with 140 grain bullet using h4350 from a 24" barrel. Hodgdon data is almost always the hottest data I can find. If you have a 24" barrel that suggests you need to reduce your load one full grain (1.0) in order to match their maximum velocity. If your barrel is shorter than 24", even more reductions are in order. For whatever reason, your powder, primer, case combination in your rifle is producing higher pressures. |
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Not sure if this helps (given cup alloy variation): https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/ "What does all this mean to the reloader? – Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at moderate pressures (40,000 psi) can use CCI 400, Federal 200, Rem 6 1/2, or Win SR. Such cases include 22 CCM, 22 Hornet and the 218 Bee. Other cases that use the small rifle primer can use the above primers only if moderate loads are used. Keep to the lower end of reloading recommendations. – Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at higher pressures (55,000 psi) should use CCI 450, CCI BR4, Fed 205 and Rem 7 1/2. – All the large rifle primers measured have the same thickness. Therefore choose based on other factors, such as accuracy, low ES/SD, cost, cup hardness, and uniformity." |