Posted: 2/26/2016 11:15:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: taliv][Edited]
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edit 7jan26: updated link below which i think has been broken for a few years some of you might find a recent thread interesting. I've been documenting my break in process with pictures on another forum. i mentioned it 3 weeks ago in this thread but now have enough rounds on the barrel to be meaningful. The result on these two barrels, to date, has been representative of most past barrels in my experience. In short, i postulate that a short break in process is conducive to low SDs by eliminating copper fouling as a variable. (i make no claims regarding accuracy, though tighter velocity spreads obviously affect vertical dispersion at longer ranges) On one barrel, i document the break in, then clean again at various intervals, after 25 rounds, up to a couple hundred, to demonstrate that copper does not build up after break in. On the other barrel, I document the break in (2 rounds), then just shoot it, and am up to 400 rounds (as of today). At 182 rounds, I chrono'd and got 2779 2779 2783 2782 2779 which is a 4 FPS ES and a 1 SD. At 390-400 rounds, I chrono'd and got an ES of 11 and SD of 3 FPS. The point being, the barrel hasn't been cleaned since the 2nd round. So, 398 rounds since it was cleaned, and it's still shooting low single digit ES. AND, once the velocity stabilized, from 182 to 400 rounds, the Mean has only moved 2 FPS.  you can read the thread here [url=https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/barrel-break-in-pictoral-log.797080/[/url]. feedback on either site is welcome. If anyone can demonstrate similar results with a copper fouled barrel, i would be interested in seeing it. It should be relatively easy since so many people "just shoot it" with no cleaning whatsoever. That's not a challenge to anyone's manhood. I am genuinely interested in the topic. Specifically, I'd like to see chorno results for a barrel that has several hundred rounds on it and has never been cleaned. Then if you're willing, either show bore scope video or clean it with a copper solvent to show copper removed. |
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i don't really know much about solvents. i get the same results from shooters choice and butches. i imagine they all work, though some may be harsher than others. the foam seems to get good reviews too but i've never tried it.
i think the boretech guy is a member here, right? he may have some useful insight. i think the tiborasaurus rex sniper 101 videos had some recommendations too, but probably not worth watching 60 hours of it again to remember what they were |
| I'm doing a one shot and clean repeat 10-12 times, then 5 shots and clean a few more times on a new Lilja match barrel, per their protocol. They recommended Butches Bore Shine, so that's what I am doing. I'm in the five shot phase now and blue is almost completely gone on the patches. Not really trying seriously for groups yet, but easily sub MOA already. |
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I always find barrel break in interesting, especially when elite barrel manufacturers are producing barrels from virtually the same material/stock yet one says some elaborate cleaning/break-in routine is their recommendation while the other basically says "clean upon arrival of your new barrel, shoot 3 to get on paper, clean, shoot 3 more to to zero, clean one last time, then shoot the piss out of it" (some of you probably know what video I'm talking about in terms of this)
I personally go with the latter method and don't look back until accuracy degrades (which can be 100s of rounds before any noticeable change...check some precision barrel owners go 500+). Sure, I might run a patch or two through it when I get home but a legit cleaning happens few and far between for me |
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Originally Posted By md7989:
I always find barrel break in interesting, especially when elite barrel manufacturers are producing barrels from virtually the same material/stock yet one says some elaborate cleaning/break-in routine is their recommendation while the other basically says "clean upon arrival of your new barrel, shoot 3 to get on paper, clean, shoot 3 more to to zero, clean one last time, then shoot the piss out of it" (some of you probably know what video I'm talking about in terms of this) I personally go with the latter method and don't look back until accuracy degrades (which can be 100s of rounds before any noticeable change...check some precision barrel owners go 500+). Sure, I might run a patch or two through it when I get home but a legit cleaning happens few and far between for me Raw material is only a piece of the puzzle. Tool marks and lapping have more to do with copper fouling. Mark |
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With my Lilja 1-9" 6 groove chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor copper fouling pretty much stopped at 6 rounds. Then I switched to 5 and clean until I hit 50 and proceed to clean every 50 or so. I'm no expert on if it matters or not, but I figure it can't hurt. If you deposit copper in the tool marks you're trying to smooth out I'd imagine it's going to take longer to break in. |
With enough Kentucky Jelly you can park a Winnebago in a garden shed. I'm sure she has no problems. -Banjaxed
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Originally Posted By md7989:
I always find barrel break in interesting, especially when elite barrel manufacturers are producing barrels from virtually the same material/stock yet one says some elaborate cleaning/break-in routine is their recommendation while the other basically says "clean upon arrival of your new barrel, shoot 3 to get on paper, clean, shoot 3 more to to zero, clean one last time, then shoot the piss out of it" (some of you probably know what video I'm talking about in terms of this) I personally go with the latter method and don't look back until accuracy degrades (which can be 100s of rounds before any noticeable change...check some precision barrel owners go 500+). Sure, I might run a patch or two through it when I get home but a legit cleaning happens few and far between for me But, most top level competition manufacturers DO recommend break in that is invariably some variation of a technique designed to simultaneously use copper jacketed bullets to polish the throat between the case mouth and rifling while removing that copper quickly afterward. While the precise recommendation varies, this is the objective. Once the break in is done, you can go extended rounds before cleaning. But, it is very important to FIRST get the reamer marks out of the throat and even the barrel, if it was not lapped by the manufacturer, and remove those initial copper deposits before they get burnished into place and become difficult to remove later. This may take as few as six shoot and clean cycles, or as many as a couple dozen until the patches no longer show green copper. Use Butches Bore Shine or Barnes CR-10 ammonia based solvents on the copper during break in. Might not ever need it later, except with pure copper monolithic bullets like Bsrnes TSX. This applies to sub MOA match barrels. If you are thinking the process will turn a 2 MOA barrel into a tack driving 1/2 MOA barrel, it will not. Such barrels need no break in except to promote ease of cleaning. |
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Originally Posted By taliv: I wouldn’t recommend swabbing barrel with a barricade. Lol It's a thin oil with rust preventative. It has served me well for that purpose for 15 years give or take. My Sako Trg Barrels always shot phenomenal and cleaned up with minimal effort. You do you. Lol. Not sure why i would care what you recommend honestly. It's not witchcraft. Most barrel makers now days say just go shoot it. I find the actual manufacturers to be the best source. |
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it was a joke btw, since someone raised this 10 yo thread from the dead, i checked and discovered the link in OP was broken so i updated it. none of this will make any sense unless you see the pics at the link. there are a bunch of them and arfcom doesn't host pics or i would embed them here. |
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OK since a mod offered to host the images here, I've transferred them to a temp hosting site, to make it easier for them to host here. i'll also summarize the basic content of the post from the other forum: barrel break in does SOMETHING. I'm not claiming it's necessary etc. but to say it does NOTHING is easily disproven by the following pictures. What I have done (and have been doing for 20 years now) only takes a few rounds and I believe it STOPS copper fouling. Some people claim they want a bed of copper and clean out powder fouling. If that's what you want, don't do this. Procedure is ridiculously simple: Fire the first round on the barrel. Clean it with a COPPER SOLVENT of your choice. Repeat this until you don't see any more copper, as evidenced by blue-green on the patches. In my experience, with quality match barrels (bartlein, krieger, broughton, etc) this takes between 1-4 rounds, usually about 2-3 rounds. Then you're done. That's it. These pictures came from my 11th 260AI barrel (a bartlein chambered by Wade Stuteville) back around 2016. ROUND 1 FIRED Pic is from patch as it exits muzzle after the first round is fired. Note that it is wet from solvent and covered in powder fouling but there is no blue because the solvent has not had time to work  after 10 minutes, i push another patch through. You can clearly see a moderate amount of blue, which is from the disolved copper that the first bullet put in the barrel  I put 2 more dry patches through just to dry the barrel before round 2   ROUND 2 FIRED Again, I run a wet patch through and it picks up black powder fouling but no copper  After 10 minutes elapse, I push a dry patch through and you can see SUBSTANTIALLY less blue because the second bullet didn't put as much copper in the barrel. The theory is the first bullet cleaned up a lot of the tool marks from the reamer and because this is a great barrel chambered by a great gunsmith, there really wasn't much to clean up. YMMV  2 dry patches again to dry the barrel before round 3.   ROUND 3 FIRED same story  but this time, almost no blue at all.  2 dry patches   |
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follow on: Again, the point is that this procedure simply stops copper fouling. Bullet 3 just didn't put any copper down. And to illustrate the point, I repeated the procedure again after 25 rounds and after 70 rounds. Normally, I don't clean again til about 300 rounds, but I did here just to take pics so you can see the absense of blue after dozens of rounds, which essentially means, the barrel is in the same condition over hundreds of rounds with respect to copper. ROUND 25 FIRED     ROUND 70 I cleaned it twice this time just for show.     second cleaning    
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"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara