Posted: 12/29/2025 11:13:29 AM EDT
Another great one from CivDiv: 20 HORRIFYING Stats about Combat He slightly misquotes Heraclitus:  Some nice training tips though as far as shooting silhouettes, realistic distances(often under 30 meters) under tight time constraints, and the common failure to identify targets. CivDiv talks about "unaimed fire", but in Vietnam SOG would use well trained point shooting for the close distances of jungle combat. There is a substantial difference between point shooting and spray-and-pray. CivDiv also talks about how Suppression is vital, but suggests suppression is not often well trained. Drake Fire is a solid suppression technique used by the pros. |
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Any claims about shooting rates of soldiers that refers back to SLA Marshall's book Men Against Fire is faulty for a variety of reasons. The notion that American soldiers didn't shoot is BS and the claim that the "switch" to human silhouettes for training increased firing rates in Vietnam is absurd. I have just about every military marksmanship manual going back to the late 1800s and they all have silhouette targets in them. The qualification course that soldiers went through used the "D" or "Dog" targets for rapid fire tables. It's a silhouette target! Read The Secret of the Soldiers Who Didn't Shoot by Fredric Smoler in American Heritage magazine. |
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Originally Posted By bpm990d: Any claims about shooting rates of soldiers that refers back to SLA Marshall's book Men Against Fire is faulty for a variety of reasons. The notion that American soldiers didn't shoot is BS and the claim that the "switch" to human silhouettes for training increased firing rates in Vietnam is absurd. I have just about every military marksmanship manual going back to the late 1800s and they all have silhouette targets in them. The qualification course that soldiers went through used the "D" or "Dog" targets for rapid fire tables. It's a silhouette target! Read The Secret of the Soldiers Who Didn't Shoot by Fredric Smoler in American Heritage magazine. That article has a great quote from GEN Gavin: "And Gen. James M. Gavin, who commanded the famous 82nd Airborne Division during World War II, says bluntly that Marshall’s claim “is absolutely false.” According to Gavin, “All of our infantry fired their weapons. I know because I was there and took part.”" I imagine the truth is more related to tooth-to-tail ratio and that threats are often visible for only short periods. My relatives who killed the enemy in combat during WW2 reported that they would throw up afterwards, but that didn't stop them from shooting. |
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Originally Posted By bpm990d: That is a good quote by an authoritative source. I will say that I liked this one: One old K Company sergeant asked, “Did the SOB think we clubbed the Germans to death?” There is also a famous quote from some Israeli that in his paratroop unit only the officers and the soldiers to his left and right would be shooting during heavy combat. Not sure I believe that |