Posted: 1/23/2023 3:32:09 PM EDT
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This is embarrassing g to post: I’m an avid collector and shooter who’s been into the hobby for about 10 years but I’m a terrible shot. Like 6-8” groups at 15yds terrible. I’ve put thousands of rounds down range, had a lesson which was helpful, and tried dozens of guns including SIG P210 Target and custom Glocks but my shots are still all over the place. What suggestions do y’all have for improving my handgun skills? |
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There are several variations on the following diagram, but this is a start. Attached File |
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Honestly, start over with a pistol of your choice at 3 yards. Then 5 then 7 then 10 then 15, 20 and 25. Shoot at a target until you have all x ring hits consistently then move to the next range out. |
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Like others have said relook at the basics like your grip and sight position and run a .22 for while. I also tell people to not run a whole mag when you shoot. All too often I see folks that are starting out try and run through the mag too quick , which doesn't help a beginner. Load of three or five rounds and shoot slow and then reload the mag , it will slow you down some and allow you too see whats going on better. |
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Ignore everything above. 87% it’s not the gun or your training. Sight picture and what you pick up visually subconsciously as you acquire both the target and sight picture. I can’t remember how many times cops came in to shoot a bit before their qualifying test or brought their gun in and said the sights are off. Ok, before we go down that path. Let me take a few shots. Come out of the range with target. "How did you do that" ? Not the sights. Start by changing the color of the front sight only. Go cheep. Just color the one that’s there and shoot. Red, green, white and orange. Before you start anything else. Shoot slow and deliberate. If your group tightens up..? There you go. Then go after that other stuff. Yes it all matters but everyone’s ideal or most functional sight picture is not the same and in as little as a couple years a minor change in your vision equates to a huge change in sight picture. Especially if you are pushing speed of target acquisition a bit hard. Or try a hi-viz front sight. |
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Get some quality training from a professional. Seriously, find pistol classes in your area and sign up for the first level intro class. Work with an instructor and get some one on one. Admitting you have a problem is the first step 
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Am right eye dominant and shoot LH so I am a mess. Did most of what was already suggested took a class, started close, shot less than 5 rounds at a time. Got a red dot cause my eyes aren't great. Going out every week using 25-50 rounds. Been doing this for close to a year. Although I will never win a contest figure, I am decent now. Really the best thing was getting professional training. Cost was only about $100. That alone cut the spread in 1/2. Good Luck. |
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Do what most people don’t do.... Stop spending money on more guns and invest in yourself. Go take actual training from top level guys and learn how to shoot and practice. Ben Stoeger, Matt Pranka (X-ray Alpha) and Mike Pannone (CTT Solutions) would be my top 3. I know plenty of guys that own upwards of 100 guns they don’t shoot well I also know guys that own a dozen crappy ARs rather than 2-3 top quality guns with top shelf optics and accessories Makes no sense to me. |
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If you're serious about getting good with fundamentals and start hitting what you're actually aiming at, I suggest taking a Haley Strategic D5 class. It will shortcut your path to solid shooting fundamentals. I was already pretty ok going in, able to shoot mid to high 90s to occasional 100s on B8s at 25 yards freehand with stock Glocks, had hundreds of hours in other training classes, had sent many 10s of thousands of rounds downrange in classes and range time during the 8 years shooting beforehand, etc. But the stuff I learned in that class made me a lot better, and reformed how I approach and think about shooting. It's 3 days, not cheap, not low round count, with lots of classroom learning time in addition to range. It can make you cerebral about shooting and make you understand what causes you to hit and what causes you to miss. It was the best deep-dive I've had into fundamental work to date. It's well worth it to save a lot of time and money later contunuing to blow rounds without any real understanding and only hope. Best advice I have. Plus ignore that overly popular but also worthless pie chart. It isn't even meant for two hand shooting. |
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First step to improving is being honest with yourself. Some good advice in this thread regarding getting more training, dryfire, 22 cal., knowing your dominant eye, etc I would strongly recommend shooting outdoors, wearing a hat with a brim, good eye pro and double ear pro. A silencer on the 22 would be even better. Like many people you are probably sensitive to over-pressure from that small explosion a short distance from your face. Bill Rogers found out accidentally that wearing a gas mask could be helpful. A gas mask protects the eyes, nose, ears from over-pressure. Over-pressure is a primary cause of what is normally referred to as "anticipation". Bill's training involves running about 1,000 rounds of 22 out of a pistol onto steel plates. Minimal over-pressure with maximum rapid feedback is his formula for success in teaching SOF. In my experience this method is very solid. Vision can also be a thing for those of us over 45. These days my irons are blurry. Optics can help with that. |
| What you are after is training the subconscious through "Correct repetition". Perfect practice makes perfect. By transitioning gradually to a centerfire cartridge with greater over-pressure, you are conditioning your subconscious to deal with the over-pressure event. |
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find a USPSA/IPSC master or above to teach you Bubba the local gunstore counter guy, may not be a good training, or may not be skilled himself around 3:30 in listen to the wisdom  Field Notes Ep. 12, Shoot Fast & Accurate with Michael Voigt . . .  How to Grip a Handgun | Competitive Shooting Tips with Doug Koenig  Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting |
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Originally Posted By Colt653: find a USPSA/IPSC master or above to teach you Bubba the local gunstore counter guy, may not be a good training, or may not be skilled himself around 3:30 in listen to the wisdom  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBk-X54m_YAMichael Voigt was a badass shooter and that is a classic video... but at 4:05-4:12 Voigt is absolutely dismissive of the #1 problem with pistol shooters: shooting low. Voigt says: "that's between you and your psychiatrist". I'm sorry but total cringe. Being an amazing shooter does not mean that you are a good instructor. That's the single worst advice I have ever heard from any instructor regarding shooting low. |
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Originally Posted By R_S: Michael Voigt was a badass shooter and that is a classic video... but at 4:05-4:12 Voigt is absolutely dismissive of the #1 problem with pistol shooters: shooting low. Voigt says: "that's between you and your psychiatrist". I'm sorry but total cringe. Being an amazing shooter does not mean that you are a good instructor. That's the single worst advice I have ever heard from any instructor regarding shooting low. Shooting low because you are flinching is a mental response, it is not a physical one. If it is was, you would see it during dry fire. |
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Originally Posted By BaconFat: Shooting low because you are flinching is a mental response, it is not a physical one. If it is was, you would see it during dry fire. Originally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By R_S: Michael Voigt was a badass shooter and that is a classic video... but at 4:05-4:12 Voigt is absolutely dismissive of the #1 problem with pistol shooters: shooting low. Voigt says: "that's between you and your psychiatrist". I'm sorry but total cringe. Being an amazing shooter does not mean that you are a good instructor. That's the single worst advice I have ever heard from any instructor regarding shooting low. Shooting low because you are flinching is a mental response, it is not a physical one. If it is was, you would see it during dry fire. The best way to determine whether you flinch or not is to have a training partner "spike" a mag with a snap cap cartridge. Fire through the mag not knowing where the snap cap is in the mag, if you have a problem, it will be readily apparent when you flinch on the "click". |
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Originally Posted By Ironmaker: The best way to determine whether you flinch or not is to have a training partner "spike" a mag with a snap cap cartridge. Fire through the mag not knowing where the snap cap is in the mag, if you have a problem, it will be readily apparent when you flinch on the "click". The problem with that is you can't determine if it is a pre ignition push or post ignition push. If you do that drill with me, it will look like a flinch. But the target says otherwise. The dummy round does work with a person that has a flinch, but doesn't believe they do. But you already know they have a flinch by looking at the target The single best way I have found to stop the flinch is deciding not to do it and learning to call your shots |
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Originally Posted By BaconFat: Shooting low because you are flinching is a mental response, it is not a physical one. If it is was, you would see it during dry fire. Originally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By R_S: Michael Voigt was a badass shooter and that is a classic video... but at 4:05-4:12 Voigt is absolutely dismissive of the #1 problem with pistol shooters: shooting low. Voigt says: "that's between you and your psychiatrist". I'm sorry but total cringe. Being an amazing shooter does not mean that you are a good instructor. That's the single worst advice I have ever heard from any instructor regarding shooting low. Shooting low because you are flinching is a mental response, it is not a physical one. If it is was, you would see it during dry fire. It is not only a mental response. It starts as a physical response to physical stimulus (Overpressure, as described above) |
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Originally Posted By flcracker: There are several variations on the following diagram, but this is a start. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74872/e5cIoBPh_png-2682796.JPG |
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Take a class with an instructor with good credentials and references. May seem expensive but it's worth it. You can shoot thousands of rounds, but just keep repeating bad technique won't improve anything. |
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Originally Posted By R_S: Michael Voigt was a badass shooter and that is a classic video... but at 4:05-4:12 Voigt is absolutely dismissive of the #1 problem with pistol shooters: shooting low. Voigt says: "that's between you and your psychiatrist". I'm sorry but total cringe. Being an amazing shooter does not mean that you are a good instructor. That's the single worst advice I have ever heard from any instructor regarding shooting low.  |
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