AK Sponsor
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:06:47 AM EDT
|
Need the help of the SKS experts.
Just got a Norinco paratrooper and I got a fiberglass jungle stock (came in an aftermarket ramline or ati stock). Just thought about the 922 issue. What do you guys usually do to get in compliance? |
|
922 only prohibits the assembly of the offending rifle not possession or transfer,so if you purchased it as is you have to do nothing,but I would rether just be safe so no questions asked. Once you make any modification to said rifle different than how you came into possession of it, like changing the stock you then come under 922. Since you have one of the Chinese rifle you will be required to remove 4 of the original imported parts and replace them with 4 US MADE parts. The Chinese SKS rifles have 14 imported parts you have to end up with 10 or less original parts when finished and you can only count parts that came on the rifle in this list.
These are the parts you can remove and replace,each counts as 1 part. 1. Receiver. 2. Barrel. 3. Muzzle attachment. This part only applies to Yugo M59/66 rifles 4. Bolt. 5. Bolt carrier. 6. Gas piston. 7. Trigger housing. 8. Trigger. 9. Hammer. 10. Sear. 11. Disconnector. 12. Buttstock. 13. Forearm/handguard. 14. Magazine body. 15. Follower. |
|
http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html
I purchased an SKS Carbine with “restricted features” before I learned about any of this. Is my rifle “legal”? Note also that section 922(r) only bans “assembly”, it is not a crime to possess a weapon “assembled” in violation of this section. However it may be subject to seizure and forfeiture, under some circumstances, if ATF can show it was assembled in knowing or willful violation of the Gun Control Act, under 18 U.S.C. section 924(d)(1), by clear and convincing evidence. |
|
Unless you're using detachable magazines you don't have to worry about 922(r). That law prohibits assembly of a rifle (using more than 10 countable foreign made parts) in a configuration that cannot be imported BECAUSE THE RIFLE DOESN"T MEET THE "SPORTING USE" REQUIREMENTS CLAUSE. Fixed magazine SKSs can be imported as suitable for "sporting use", so the law doesn't apply.
|
|
Unless you're using detachable magazines you don't have to worry about 922(r).
That statement is total BS,if you believe any of my statements are in error then contact the BATF in writing and prove me wrong and I will PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE right on this page. Owning and modifying any SKS rifle is not rocket science,you have two options. 1. It is NOT illegal to POSSESS / buy from another individual a firearm that is not 922(r) compliant. The ACT of making / self modifying a firearm that is not 922(r) compliant is what is illegal. Once in an illegal configuration, the firearm merely becomes contraband if some LE agency can manage to prove it is illegal. The most they can do is confiscate the firearm. 2. If YOU purchase and SKS rifle in it's original imported configuration and want to make modification,once you remove any of the original imported parts on the list I provided then you fall under 922r and you are considered assembling a rifle and it looses it importation or C & R status. YOU the OWNER then have to remove the required amount of imported parts 5 on the Yugo and 4 on all other standard 10 rd. fixed magazine SKS rifles with US MADE parts. Removing the required number of imported parts will leave you with only 10 original imported parts,the rifle now becomes a non imported firearm and does not have to meet the sporting arms clause and is now a MADE IN AMERICA firearm. If you still think I'm wrong then read the response from the BATF in these letters. It doesn't get any plainer than that. http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=27678.0 |
|
Any further help in this area?
I've been looking, but seems kinda hard to find U.S. parts to meet this criteria. I really don't want to change the stock. Best I have found is the piston and a trigger. Any other sources? Trigger,Hammer,Sear 3 parts http://www.murraysguns.com/922r.htm Gas Piston 1 part http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=740052 20 rd. magazine 2 parts http://www.milsurpstuff.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MAG6620 Hand guard 1 part, gas tube doesn't count http://www.milsurpstuff.com/proddetail.asp?prod=STK66302B |
|
Quoted:
2. If YOU purchase and SKS rifle in it's original imported configuration and want to make modification,once you remove any of the original imported parts on the list I provided then you fall under 922r and you are considered assembling a rifle and it looses it importation or C & R status. YOU the OWNER then have to remove the required amount of imported parts 5 on the Yugo and 4 on all other standard 10 rd. fixed magazine SKS rifles with US MADE parts. Guess what? The OP didn't purchase the rifle in the original configuration. Guess what? The OP would be returning the rifle to it's original configuration, so long as he doesn't use a detachable magazine. Guess what? You should read the law (the statute and regulations) instead of gun boards before you give "legal advice". The law says you can't assemble a semiauto rifle or shotgun using more than 10 foriegn parts IF the rifle or shotgun is prohibited for importation under 18 USC 925(d)(3) as not suitable or adaptable for "sporting purposes". SKS rifles have never been prohibited from importation as not suitable or adaptable for "sporting purposes" when they use the non-detachable original magazine and don't have a pistol grip stock. As you might know lots of them came in that way from the former Yugoslavia. Some came in from Romania. If the SKS was prohibited from importation, how did those get in? Since the OP intends to put the rifle into a configuration that is NOT, repeat NOT, prohibited from importation as not suitable or adaptable for "sporting purposes", 18 USC 922(r) DOES NOT prohibit him from assembling it using any number of foreign made parts. In other words, this ain't rocket science. If the rifle you assemble could be imported under 18 USC 925(d)(3) you can use any parts you wish. |
|
Guess what? The OP didn't purchase the rifle in the original configuration.
I covered that already Guess what? The OP would be returning the rifle to it's original configuration, so long as he doesn't use a detachable magazine.
The OP stated he wanted to get the rifle compliant,he didn't say he wanted to put it back in original configuration,original configuration would be using original imported parts not aftermarket US made part those are 922 compliant parts. Guess what? You should read the law
Guess what you need to understand the law it not only applies to building a rifle from imported parts but also removing original imported parts from said imported rifle what part of assembly don't you understand. SKS rifles have never been prohibited from importation as not suitable or adaptable for "sporting purposes" when they use the non-detachable original magazine and don't have a pistol grip stock. As you might know lots of them came in that way from the former Yugoslavia. Some came in from Romania. If the SKS was prohibited from importation, how did those get in?
C&R status only stands as long as the weapon remains in "as-issued" condition. Non-permanent modifications, like a 20rd fixed mag, do void the C&R status however the rifle can always be returned to C&R status by putting the original parts back on. That said, yes you can "Bubba" a C&R firearm but it voids the C&R status and will force you to bring the gun into 922r compliance. Yugoslavian SKS rifles are C&R because they are specifically declared to be C&R by the BATF. Not all C&R firearms are more than 50 years old. There are many criteria which go into making a firearms C&R and being 50 years old is only one of them. Russian (C&R), Romanian (C&R), Yugoslavian (C&R), Albanian (C&R), Chinese (no C&R), East German (no C&R), North Korean (no C&R), North Vietnamese (no C&R). Any other SKS producers that we are not aware of are also not C&R. I'm done like I said if you don't believe me then write or call the BATF and get it straight for the horses mouth. |
|
Quoted:
Guess what? The OP would be returning the rifle to it's original configuration, so long as he doesn't use a detachable magazine.
The OP stated he wanted to get the rifle compliant,he didn't say he wanted to put it back in original configuration,original configuration would be using original imported parts not aftermarket US made part those are 922 compliant parts. He took off an aftermarket stock and put on a stock that has the same shape as the original, made of a different material. Where the stock is concerned the presence or absence of a pistol grip is the crucial question. The Chinese "jungle stock" doesn't have a pistol grip. Guess what? You should read the law
Guess what you need to understand the law it not only applies to building a rifle from imported parts but also removing original imported parts from said imported rifle what part of assembly don't you understand. I understand perfectly. What you don't understand is the law is not concerned with parts. The law is concerned with the end product. If the rifle you end up with cannot be imported because it doesn't meet the "sporting purposes clause" you must comply with 922(r). If the rifle you end up with meets the "sporting purposes" clause, the origin of the parts is not important because the law doesn't prohibit you from assembling a rifle that meets the "sporting purposes" requirement The rifle the OP proposes to end up with would meet the "sporting purposes" clause as long as the original non-detachable magazine is used. SKS rifles have never been prohibited from importation as not suitable or adaptable for "sporting purposes" when they use the non-detachable original magazine and don't have a pistol grip stock. As you might know lots of them came in that way from the former Yugoslavia. Some came in from Romania. If the SKS was prohibited from importation, how did those get in?
C&R status only stands as long as the weapon remains in "as-issued" condition. Non-permanent modifications, like a 20rd fixed mag, do void the C&R status however the rifle can always be returned to C&R status by putting the original parts back on. That said, yes you can "Bubba" a C&R firearm but it voids the C&R status and will force you to bring the gun into 922r compliance. Yugoslavian SKS rifles are C&R because they are specifically declared to be C&R by the BATF. Not all C&R firearms are more than 50 years old. There are many criteria which go into making a firearms C&R and being 50 years old is only one of them. Russian (C&R), Romanian (C&R), Yugoslavian (C&R), Albanian (C&R), Chinese (no C&R), East German (no C&R), North Korean (no C&R), North Vietnamese (no C&R). Any other SKS producers that we are not aware of are also not C&R. You've confused C&R status with the "sporting purposes" clause. C&R status doesn't trump the sporting purposes requirement of the law. It's one criteria in the secretary's determination of whether a rifle meets the requirement. I'm done like I said if you don't believe me then write or call the BATF and get it straight for the horses mouth. I don't need the BATFE to read the law for me. I can do that myself and unlike you, I have done so. I suggest you do so as well. Pay particular attention to exactly what it says. Then read the BATFE's regulations. Then look up 18 USC 925 (d)(3). |
|
Quoted:
If you still think I'm wrong then read the response from the BATF in these letters. It doesn't get any plainer than that. http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=27678.0 That letter is about which parts count, not whether you must comply with 922(r) when assembling a rifle that is not prohibited from importation as not suitable for "sporting purposes". |
MOMMY DADDY, STOP FIGHTING! 
Res45, I appreciate the links to those parts and the sks board. Poly, I can see where you're coming from. To be honest, I'm still alittle confused. But, either way, I don't like being called OP. Just sounds weird. 
On a serious note, in case I was misunderstood. I purchased a Norinco SKS Paratrooper at a gunshow that was in some type of polymer aftermarket stock and handguard (I assume was U.S.). It had a receiver cover (I assume was U.S.) that had a permanently attached scope mount and a small scope on it. The bayonet lug had been cut off. And there was no cleaning rod. As far as I can tell there were no U.S. parts except the stock and receiver cover. I purchased a Chinese (I assume) receiver cover and a Chinese fiberglass jungle stock (original military issue, no assumption). I have a cleaning rod on the way. Now the rifle is in this configuration and has absolutely no U.S. parts. If you want to see it before/after it is on the last page of the pics thread. So, what I'm getting from you guys is this: (1). Because I changed the stock and receiver cover (assembled) I now must change parts to consist of not more than 10 parts on that list to be in compliance with 922. (2). Because the rifle is in it's original configuration which it was legal to import and suitable for sporting purposes, I'm good to go. (3). ATF doesn't have time to enforce 922 so as long as I'm not being looked at for something else it is not likely to be an issue. I only plan to shoot hogs or play at the range, but who knows if I had to defend my home or someone else with it, then it might be looked at more closely for 922 compliance. From reading the posted information I totally see both your points. I'm still not sure which way to go. I didn't mean to cause so much strife. I say the three of us meet up at the White House and discuss this with Obama, over a beer. 
|
AK Sponsor