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10/14/2012 1:24:48 PM EDT
???, My son purchased a AK 74 and we shot it today for the first time.  I was surprised that when we went to the target to look at it, it was the shape of the round, and not a hole.  Is that right or is something wrong?  I 've never experienced anything like that.  Ammo was wolf.  Thanks!!!
10/14/2012 1:38:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
???, My son purchased a AK 74 and we shot it today for the first time.  I was surprised that when we went to the target to look at it, it was the shape of the round, and not a hole.  Is that right or is something wrong?  I 've never experienced anything like that.  Ammo was wolf.  Thanks!!!


Something is wrong.  Sounds like the bullets are keyholing.

Is this a Tantal made by Century Arms?  They had barrel issues that caused the keyholing.  Only fix is a new barrel.
10/14/2012 1:38:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
???, My son purchased a AK 74 and we shot it today for the first time.  I was surprised that when we went to the target to look at it, it was the shape of the round, and not a hole.  Is that right or is something wrong?  I 've never experienced anything like that.  Ammo was wolf.  Thanks!!!


Sounds like keyholing.  Which AK-74?  WHat barrel type?
10/14/2012 1:44:02 PM EDT
[#3]
It is a a Sagia made by Izimash in Russia
10/14/2012 1:59:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
It is a a Sagia made by Izimash in Russia


Does it have a muzzle device on it?  Any marks on the muzzle device from bullets hitting it on the way out?
10/14/2012 2:00:06 PM EDT
[#5]
How far away was the target?
10/14/2012 2:02:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Yes, has a AK74 muzzle brake on it with no evidence of any marks on it.  Is it possible it could be the AMMO.  It was an Atlantic Arms purchase.
10/14/2012 2:08:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Can you take pictures of the:
Muzzle Brake
Crown head on
&
Profile shot of the threading/FSB/ barrel toward the muzzle.
10/14/2012 2:09:22 PM EDT
[#8]
25 and 50 yds was the distance.  We were in the process of Zeroing the weapon.
10/14/2012 2:10:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Yes, has a AK74 muzzle brake on it with no evidence of any marks on it.  Is it possible it could be the AMMO.  It was an Atlantic Arms purchase.


I've shot lots of wolf ammo without a single issue.

I'd say try firing it without the muzzle brake on it and see if it does any better.
10/14/2012 2:11:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Is it the 53 grain or 70 grain Wolf? The 70 grain stuff is too heavy and will ofen not stabilize out of a 16 inch barrel.

thirtycal
10/14/2012 2:21:23 PM EDT
[#11]
It is 60 grain round
10/14/2012 2:24:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Might as well rule out the ammo first and go form there.  Try a variety. Remove the brake if it continues.  If it is occurring still, well that is not good.
10/14/2012 4:23:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
It is a a Sagia made by Izimash in Russia


IMPOSSIBLE! LIES!
10/14/2012 4:37:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is a a Sagia made by Izimash in Russia


IMPOSSIBLE! LIES!

I LOL'd when I read this. But, really, it's entirely possible. Contact the importer and try to get some warranty service.
10/19/2012 4:25:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Possible its a .223 barrel?
10/19/2012 4:43:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Possible its a .223 barrel?


I doubt it. The chamber dimensions would be different too. Izhmash isn't Century.
10/19/2012 4:57:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Possible its a .223 barrel?


I doubt it. The chamber dimensions would be different too. Izhmash isn't Century.


True. Ive never tried dropping a 5.45 in a  5.56 chamber until today, it doesnt work.
10/19/2012 5:03:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
25 and 50 yds was the distance.  We were in the process of Zeroing the weapon.


Some 5.45 barrels have been known to have issues where at 25 and 50 yards there have been some oblong holes in targets due the bullet being slightly unstable, but it should stabilize by 100 yards. Try zeroing at 100 yards and see what happens.
10/19/2012 5:19:58 PM EDT
[#19]
OST
 
10/19/2012 8:38:10 PM EDT
[#20]
i put a .223 round in my 7.62 saiga today... and fired it... yeah, not one of my finer moments... sorry i have nothing great to add to this thread..
10/19/2012 8:56:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
i put a .223 round in my 7.62 saiga today... and fired it... yeah, not one of my finer moments... sorry i have nothing great to add to this thread..


My buddy did that, only noticed because the round was loaded backwards, about half way through the magazine.

10/20/2012 1:06:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Is it possiable the rounds were hitting the ground in front of the target and kicking up on the target ? Just a thought.
10/20/2012 1:50:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Possible its a .223 barrel?


I doubt it. The chamber dimensions would be different too. Izhmash isn't Century.


I think he means a .224 bore meant for a .223/5.56 chamber, not the .223 chamber itself

From what I understand that was the source of the century tantal keyholing issues, they were using barrels made from blanks meant for .223. I think a 5.45 uses a .221 bore, vs the .224 a 5.56 uses (I might be a little off on that). The larger bore is too big to properly stabilize the bullet and it ends up going end over end throughout its trajectory.

It's possible that at the saiga plant a barrel blank meant for a 5.56 rifle ended up chambered in 5.45. Either that or its just an out of spec barrel. Sounds like warranty path is the way to go

The quick way to find out is to do the "bullet test", commonly used to find out if a 5.45 barrel is shot out or cut from the wrong blank. Just take a .223 round and stick the bullet end in the muzzle. If it goes all the way in, and you still have decent rifling, you have a wrong size or out of spec barrel. If it's in spec, you should have about 2mm of bullet left showing above the neck of the cartridge when its pushed in as far as it'll go
10/23/2012 4:29:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Thanks everyone, especially pearwhitemike.
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